Pleb and Patrician equivalents?
i'll start
plebs: the beatles
patricians: the zombies
So "patrician" basically means "more obscure" in this context?
>pleb
Paramore
>patrician
The Joy Formidable
You laughing over your master ruse?
>pleb
swans
>patrician
one direction
>>55118761
this
>Pleb
Radiohead
>Patrician
Coldplay
>>55118761
Paramore's latest album was pretty good though
I'll try Joy Formidable now
>Pleb
Nirvana
>Patrician
Sonic Youth
>pleb
Death Grips
>patrician
Clipping
>Pleb
Death Grips
>Patrician
Death Grips
>pleb
Nirvana
>patrician
Swirlies
>>55118727
The Zombies' compositions are objectively less remarkable and interesting.
>>55118757
Plebeians such as OP typically think so.
>>55118757
Seriously, when doesn't it on this board
pleb: Bob Dylan
patrician: Mumford & Sons
>>55118916
How are they anything alike?
>>55118976
When CLT first started using it.
Pleb
>Radiohead
Patricia
>Arcric Monkey's
>>55119009
He's a twat anyway
>pleb
Bob Dylan
>patrician
Leonard Cohen
>>55118998
Both used a lot of noise.
Both used punk as a backbone in their music.
They were in a cool documentary together.
I always thought they were somewhat similar.
>>55118971
using the word objectively doesn't make your shit subjective opinion any better
>>55119080
more like
>pleb
Dylan
>pleb
Cohen
>pleb
Buckley
>pleb
Waits
Odessey and Oracle is one of my favorite albums of all time but The Beatles were honestly more innovative with their songwriting (and obviously more prolific)
>>55119116
>patrician
Dave Bixby
>Pleb
Animal Collective
>Patrician
MGMT
Pleb:
My Bloody Valentine
Patrician:
Hatsune Miku
>>55119081
Dino Jr. was there too
>>55118935
kill yourself
>>55118727
>pleb:
Neutral Milk Hotel
>patrician:
Never Shout Never
>>55119118
prolific isn't nessacirly a good thing
>>55119160
For like 6 minutes.
>pleb
Todd Terje
>patrician
Bjorn Torske
>Pleb
The Pixies
>Patrician
Sonic Youth
>pleb
A popular musician
>patrician
A similar, less popular musician whom I prefer
>>55118810
>>55118884
>>55118935
>>55118985
>>55119012
>>55119134
>>55119177
Pleb: Rolling Stones
Better version: kinks, not going to say patrician
>>55119252
spoken like a true pleb
>>55118935
>pleb
Death Grips
>pleb
Clipping
>patrician
Dälek
>>55119104
It's not subjective nor is it an opinion. Perform a Roman numeral analysis of their music and see for yourself.
>>55119306
wow, well spotted meme-friend! i almost got memed by the baiters!
>>55119373
something being remarkable or interesting is subjective you retard
>>55118942
I agree with only half of this post
The Zombies are basically the go-to band for plebeians who want to throw up an "I listen to 60s pop lol so twee" image but for whom the Beatles and Beach Boys are too popular.
They've never made anything that wasn't cloying, predictably structured, harmonically unimaginative and lyrically inept. If you prefer the Zombies to the Beatles you are a musically illiterate pleb.
>pleb
4chan
>patrician
>>55119341
If I like Death Grips and Dälek am I a plebtrician?
>>55119581
WELL SHITFIRE
>>55119545
\../....|----\
.\/.....|.....\
./\.....|...../
/..\....|----/
>>55118916
>pleb
Nirvana
>Patrician
The Pixies
>>55119605
no :)
>>55119545
at least they actually had good songs
>>55119581
>pleb
4chan
>Patrician
9gag
>>55119080
Aside from a lyrical focus and a circumcised penis they're nothing alike. Nick Cave has more in common with Leonard Cohen than Dylan does.
>>55118916
eh, nowadays. but back then they toured together and shit.
>>55119772
What does that have to do with how they sound?
>pleb
Death Grips
>less pleb
Kanye, Clipping
>not pleb
Dalek
>patrician
Techno Animal
>pleb
sound
>patrician
silence
>>55119840
nice
>>55119207
not true! they had two tracks, and a bit of a bumper in between. pic is proof
Pleb: Pixies
Patrician: Seam
Pleb: Modest Mouse/ Death Cab for Cutie
Patrician: Built to Spill
>>55118971
>The Zombies' compositions are objectively less remarkable and interesting.
Does this mean that more interesting and remarkable songwriting determines whether or not something is patrician or not? I like Faust S/T a lot, but you can't really break down the compositions like you can in a Beatles album. Does this make the Beatles more patrician than Faust? If the Beatles are less patrician than Faust and you cannot harmonically break down Faust's self titled record but some people claim that Faust features more remarkable and interesting songwriting than the Beatles, then isn't something being 'remarkable and interesting' a subjective thing? And as a result of that, isn't something being patrician also a subjective thing?
>>55119888
/thread
>>55119950
>Seam anything like Pixies
wat
Spot on with Built to Spill though
>>55119950
How is Seam even remotely close to Pixies? They're both "indie rock"?
Seriously explain yourself
>>55119963
You're right that you can't judge a pop song the same way you judge something like Faust, but what you're forgettin is you're comparing the Beatles and the Zombies, not the Beatles and Faust.
Songwriting isn't the only criteria for all music, but for pop bands with a focus on songwriting it's obviously the most important one.
>>55119896
I'm so so sorry. 15 minutes, I'll never make that mistake ever again. Good thing for that proof :^]
>>55119373
>i know le music theory so my opinions are objecitve fac tnow xD
Fuck off.
>>55119990
>>55120058
Don't know much about the Pixies, I showed a friend of mine Seam and he said they sounded exactly like Pixies
>>55120179
Then why would you call them pleb? You're everything that's wrong with this board.
>pleb
nigger music
>patrician
asian music
>>55120179
He's probably dumb. If you don't even know what they sound like why are you calling them pleb?
>>55120162
Alright take it from me then, the Zombies' compositions are demonstrably less remarkable than the Beatles'. Happy now?
>>55120206
kpop isn't even music, it's just waifu worship
>>55120243
>Alright take it from me then, the Zombies' compositions are demonstrably less remarkable than the Beatles'. Happy now?
Why would I take it from you? You are not speaking from any authority of any sort, and even if you were, I would still challenge you to elucidate.
Beyond my asking you to analyse and prove that the Zombies didn't write music as remarkable as the Beatles, I want you to explain to me why the Beatles writing more "remarkable" music (which is, in itself, a subjective quality, unlike "complex" for example) makes them more "patrician".
>>55120195
It ain't that serious, I was just looking for something to contribute to this stupid game, btw pleb/patrician isn't the biggest problem of /mu/ at the moment, it used to be much more prominent and annoying than now
>>55120206
>can't into jazz
Now that's what I call plebeian
>>55120299
Stop calling things subjective until you learn what subjectivity is.
>pleb
Bikini Kill
>patrician
Heavens to Betsy
>>55120355
Re-read your own post and replace "sub" with "ob" and then follow your own advice, you stupid fucking objectivist.
>>55120206
insecure cuck detected
>>55120206
a racist asian? that's an anomaly.
>>55120299
>I want you to explain to me why the Beatles writing more "remarkable" music (which is, in itself, a subjective quality, unlike "complex" for example) makes them more "patrician".
I understand this is subjective unlike the other poster, which is why I omitted the word objective in my previous post. "Patrician" isn't a real thing, so I don't even know what you're asking. It just means "good"
Now, what specifically are you asking me to do?
>>55120368
That's not what objectivism is
>>55120058
While you're correct that this specific thread is comparing too bands who both composed and performed 60s pop songs and can therefore be judged by their ability to do so, how can we compare a band like the Beatles to a band like Faust? Many posters will readily claim that one is more patrician than the other, yet it seems that if they cannot be compared in a remotely similar way then we shouldn't compare them at all. Should we isolate comparisons to separate genres and categories? As in only comparing Baroque composers to other baroque composers, delta blues singers to other delta blues singers, experimental rock musicians to other experimental rock musicians, etc? That way we can more directly compare certain artists by things that make them better or worse using criteria that only exists in their respective kind of music. So we could say that the Beatles are the most patrician pop group, Faust is the most patrician experimental rock group, Dolphy is the best post-bop artist, etc.
>>55120368
Exhibit A: Mount Rushmore
Exhibit B: a nondescript boulder
Exhibit A is objectively more remarkable as it has provoked quantitatively more remarks from passersby.
>>55120417
Qualities that provoke remarks are not objective so nothing is objectively more remarkable than the other.
You still haven't analysed the Beatles vs the Zombies yet so I'm assuming you don't actually know music theory and have been talking out of your ass this entire time.
>>55120417
There is a gigantic underwater city only seen by five people and those five people were amazed by it. There is a somewhat large tree on the surface and 500 people have seen it and they were amazed by it. Does this make the underwater city less remarkable than a somewhat large tree?
>>55120366
>mfw all of complicated
>>55120442
I'm not the theory guy (although pretty much all theory-knowledgeable agree that the Beatles are more remarkable). I'm just someone who knows the definition of words, unlike you.
>>55120477
Quantitatively they are equally remarkable, with a remarks provoking rate of 100% each.
This isn't rocket surgery, people.
>>55118727
>plebs
Johnny Cash
>Partrician
Merle Haggard
>>55120525
>rocket surgery
>>55120415
>how can we compare a band like the Beatles to a band like Faust?
I don't think you can directly. I think the best way to do it is analyse them separately and see which one best achieves their objective, whatever you percieve that to be.
I think I pretty much agree with what you're saying
>>55120525
Even if everyone on the planet agreed that something is remarkable, that doesn't make it objectively remarkable, as it's still a subjective determination.
Intersubjectivity is not objectivity. Are you sure you know the definition of words?
>>55119538
i agree with the entirety
>>55119671
tru dat
>>55120566
>I think I pretty much agree with what you're saying
Want to give me a handjob now that we've settled this? Maybe we can listen to Jefferson Airplane together.
>>55120668
Yes
>plebs
Simon & Garfunkle
>partricians
Paul Simon
Pleb
>me
Pleb: Flaming Lips
Patrish: Mercury Rev
>>55120573
>it's still a subjective determination
No. It's a quantitatively determined value; what % of witnesses remarked?
>>55118727
Pleb: Beethoven
Patrician: Mozart
>plebs
Bruce Springsteen
>partricians
tom waits
>pleb
Alfred Brendel.
>patrician
Wilhelm Backhaus.
>>55119655
Kill yourself useless tripfag :)
Pleb: Freddie Hubbard
Patrician: Lee Morgan
>>55120788
Not true, by the way
>>55120886
holy moly
>plebs
Rolling Stones
>partricians
The Who
>>55120895
Further proof that Mozart is underrated.
>pleb
Clipping
>patrician
Death Grips
>>55118971
>>55119373
>>55120058
>>55120243
>>55120355
>>55120407
>>55120417
>>55120525
>>55120566
>>55120788
EVERYBODY SOUND THE ALARMS
#CLTISBACK
I've always wanted to ask you: what's your favorite kind of saxophone? It's my main instrument and I'm having trouble deciding whether I want to continue getting good at tenor or if I should revert back to alto. I'm also learning the clarinet, mostly because that's just a fantastic sounding instrument.
>>55120788
>ludwig van
>pleb
ayy klmao
pleb:
Neutral Milk Hotel, American Football, Radiohead.
patrican:
Conlon Nancarrow, Horațiu Rădulescu, Morton Feldman.
>>55121007
Too much
>>55121007
Get a contrabass.
>>55121057
>Too much
Too much what?
>>55121099
While lots of people attach 'meme' to words as a meme, anything lower than a bari or higher than a soprano is a meme instrument that's a novelty at best and pure shit at worst.
>>55121007
Get a bass(ed) clarinet like my man Dolphy
>>55120742
In what universe is this true. Rev released 3 good albums,
>muh guitar distortions
the flaming lips released at least 5 with more and better songs.
>pleb
Kendrick Lamar
>patrician
Tribe
>>55121159
I don't have that much money, man. Trust me- I would if I could. I'm thinking about talking to my band director about giving it a shot, but he's big and scary.
>>55121191
>more and better songs
You messed it all up
Flaming Lips haven't made anything as good as Boces or Yerself is Steam, so while they may have a higher number of worthwhile albums it's easy to so why someone would prefer Rev
>guitar distortion
Yeah, because that isn't damn near ubiquitious in psychedelia, right?
>>55121276
>Yeah, because that isn't damn near ubiquitious in psychedelia, right?
I hope that's fucking sarcastic
>>55121308
why would that be sarcasm
he's right, it is
>>55121308
Oh fine, acid rock then.
>mfw this thread
jesus christ you guys this is abysmal
>>55119116
>patrician
Van Zandt
>>55121347
it isn't. it really isn't.
I'm not justifying this
>>55121233
In that case stick with the tenor. Pretty much any size saxophone can sound great IMO
>>55118727
>pleb
Jesus Christ of Nazareth
>patrician
L. Ron Hubbard
>>55120757
Again, that's irrelevant.
Everyone on the planet agreeing that the Beatles fucking rule dude doesn't make the Beatles "objectively" good. That's just a consensus--a trend of subjective determination. That's it.
>>55121491
>Again, [a quantitative system of value determination is] irrelevant [to whether the value is objective].
Further proof that you don't know what you're talking about.
>>55121483
>In that case stick with the tenor. Pretty much any size saxophone can sound great IMO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4t1g2esXbU
You betcha
>>55118916
>Pleb
Nirvana
>Patrician
Fugazi
>>55121534
You can quantitatively measure how many people find something remarkable or good. That's not the same thing as measuring how remarkable or "good" something is in an actually objective sense. If nobody was around to say it's remarkable, it would just be sound.
I repeat: intersubjectivity is not objectivity.
>>55121581
>pleb
Fugazi
>patrician
Nation Of Ulysses
>>55121613
Remarkability is an objective value derived quantitatively via the % of witnesses who are provoked to remark.
Goodness is a subjective value ascribed to an object by subjective observers exercising qualitative judgment.
The fact that you equate them further proves that you don't know what you're talking about and are out of your intellectual depth.
>Pleb
Kanye
>Less Pleb
Clipping, B L A C K I E
>Right in between pleb and Patrician
Death Grips
>leaning towards Patrician
Young Fathers, Man Bites Dog
>almost Patrician
Dalek, Moodie Black
>Patrician
Kill the Vultures, Techno Animal
>>55119840
>Kanye
>More patrician than death grips
dropped
>>55121706
>Pleb
Kanye
>Less Pleb
Clipping, B L A C K I E
>Right in between pleb and Patrician
Death Grips
>leaning towards Patrician
Young Fathers, Man Bites Dog
>almost Patrician
Dalek, Moodie Black
>"Patrician"
Kill the Vultures, Techno Animal
>Patrician
The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy
>>55121801
Will check them out, haven't heard of them before.
>>55121855
they are not that industrial tbh
>Remarkability is an objective value
No, it isn't. Nor is it derived from how many people remark on it. It's the idea that it's worthy of remark/attention. I had assumed you were conflating consensus with objectivity, but I guess you just don't know what the word entails. See the attached image. It's not any different from goodness in that sense. More people finding it remarkable doesn't make it intrinsically more remarkable, the same way more people finding something good doesn't make it intrinsically good.
You've stabbed the shadow of the subject/object problem and you've reckoned you've killed it. Good try, though.
>>55121899
Woops, meant to quote >>55121689
>>55121899
That definition supports what I've been saying all along.
>>55121882
If they're harder hitting, heavy, experimental hip hop, they belong on that list.
Also that's not a problem for me.
