t.b.h. i always thought that gira was weird, especially after this
>>62942631
Rape is an everyday, nay, an everyminute occurance in the world. Modern women really must put their vitriol behind them and accept that penises sometimes want to force themselves into vaginas. It's perfectly natural, and laws wont ever do anything to stop it or change that fact, so it's time to bring a New Reality back to civilisation. A New Reality that allows for natural behavioUr. So, lay back, and think yourself lucky penises want to enter you. Just count your lucky stars and enjoy all the fortunate encounters you have with penises, the Gods are really in your favoUr!
>rape
I'm sick of this meme
Can confirm he's a rapist
I met him once and he had a really firm handshake. It was really traumatic so I'm not surprised by this at all.
You made me do this
>>62942815
kek'd
There's sometimes a buggy. How many drivers does a buggy have?
>>62942815
Did his breath reek of alcohol?
>>62944675
someone who's funnier than me should incorporate a rape joke into this
>>62942631
Gira did nothing wrong
>>62943310
this is nice pseudonym
Is there any woman that could say she was raped that /mu/ wouldn't spend hours trying to discredit?
Like, I know /mu/ loves St. Vincent, but I think their hatred of women and their triggering when a rape accusation is made out overpower that.
>>62942815
When I met him, his handshake was less firm than mine, so he squeezed twice as hard to the point where my hand was getting crushed.
Hmmm....
>>62945938
dude abt 90% of us know he fucked her. it's just he raped her in the most non-gira/swans way which is an embarrassment to his legacy
only the /pol/tards are fighting for gira
also the whole im going to make u a star bit is hilarious lmao
DAVID LYNCH IS A HACK
>>62945938
welcome to 4chan
How long before this rape bullshit gets added to his wiki page?
>>62946056
you seriously believe he'd say something as un-gira as "im gonna make you a star" while being pretty much broke at the time?
>>62947127
I don't believe anything cept the part where he stuck his dick inside her and pulled out. everything else is larkin lying and milking it for power.
he cheated on his wife for sure. The definition of rape they're using is bs but it's still kinda correct.
>>62947423
>The definition of rape they're using is bs but it's still kinda correct.
So when you stick your dick inside a girl consensually and then she cries rape 8 years later, that's "still kinda correct" definition of rape according to you?
>>62947974
gira fucked up by saying it was a "awkward mistake" so right now we have to go by larkin and saying she didn't consent him penetrating her
Until gira can come up with better evidence. it's a pointless he/she say story. that larkin is currently winning. It's fucked up I hope he takes her to court.
>>62948116
You realize that "awkward mistake" doesn't necessarily mean he was forcing himself on her, right? He was still with his first wife when they did it.
>>62948147
I think you're misinterpreting me. I'm not against gira. Im stating why the general public doesn't believe him
He cheated on his wife regardless he fucked up.
Since the cosby,jian and now kesha case SJWs/nazi feminist have been looking for anything to get angry at.Even if the incident isn't what majority of ppl consider rape. Online she can still make a case and ruin his life. In Court this probably wouldn't hold. but these type of ppl know that so twitter/fb is the new justice system.
gira paved his own grave hopefully he can get out of this and finish the album
>>62948239
I think you're trying really hard to come off as a retard and I think you're doing it because you're using a trip.
>>62948272
UGH :)
>>62948116
To take her to court he will have to prove that he didn't rape her which is impossible because there is so little evidence either way after all these years. Plus it will have the Streisand effect and ruin his legacy (as well as making Larkin Grimm famous).
Maybe it would be better if everyone just ignored it.
>>62948116
>we **have** to go by larkin and saying she didn't consent him penetrating her
Why?
>>62948272
i generally think that trip is a retard but honestly his argument was a pretty good
>>62948372
If she was as drunk as she says she was then its possible she couldn't have consented either way (we're talking blacking out level here). The friend whose house they were staying at can probably confirm on her level of intoxication.
Before someone loses their shit over this its based on whether the accused knows the alleged victim is too intoxicated to consent - not just that she had a couple of beers.
>>62948585
>If she was as drunk as she says she was then its possible she couldn't have consented either way
again you basically said we have to take her word, why though?
>>62948649
I'm not the other guy and I said:
>If she was as drunk *as she says she was*
Thing is he admitted that he penetrated her which opens up a whole new angle on the accusations. Now there are allot of questionable things she seems to have added in deliberately but if the people they were with can say she was too hammered to consent then she was too hammered to consent and that is that.
>>62948897
>Thing is he admitted that he penetrated her
But he didn't
>>62948897
Oh ok, well yea, I've been saying since gira released that statement he basically gave himself a death sentence. I guess it's too much to expect musicians to do *everything* but damn you'd think he'd have at least a bit of common sense in this. Obviously if she was too drunk and he forced himself on her then yea it is what it is, fortunately I am actually not swans fan, never listen to them at all, just happened to be following this drama.
The thing is, Larkin's admitted herself it won't go to court and that puts us right in the position of never knowing, literally ever. That's why Gira releasing that statement was such an astronomical retard move. The only way he can clear his name at this point is forcing her to charge him and winning assuming it didn't happen and she has no evidence, but you can't force someone to charge you so he's done.
RAPE IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT
>>62945938
She has to prove it first. People are liars, and will say many things for many reasons. Without evidence, its nothing. Its LESS than nothing, because she wont even take it to the police. Its technically libel.
Its a blatant attempt to destroy his reputation without playing the victim in court and getting btfo.
>>62948116
We dont "have" to believe anything, least of all Larkin who has 0. 0.
Let me separate it for easier reading.
O evidence.
>>62948239
Youre retarded, because once gira takes her to court for libel there is gonna be hell to pay.
And maybe the sjw will learn. But probably not.
>>62949357
she doesn't have to prove shit anymore. gira is pretty much finished once his official statement was shit compared to her long essay which had detailed info. His shit was vague
I was on the "maybe he is, maybe he isn't" side for a bit, but that last statement about it being an "awkward moment" is making me lean towards "is." As a criminal, you do not want to put yourself where a crime might have taken place, and he did just that. Most likely, he did it and dropped her from his label not because she wouldn't have sex with him, but rather because being around her was then awkward and he didn't want to risk fucking up again.
I kinda feel for him more now, though, as this sounds like a very cowardly response. That is the type of response I'd probably make even though I know in my head it's best to either deny it outright or admit it outright.
>>62944764
The rape joke is already there; the edit is perfect as is.
>one rape claim is enough to ruin a man's life, as everyone will believe you anyway
what the fuck happened?
>>62949357
>People are liars
Gira is a person too. He must be lying too, right?
>>62949470
>this guy has strong handshake no wonder he's a sick fuck
is this nigga fucking serious
At this point, I am pretty much wholly convinced that I will have to keep my real name completely off any music I make.
>>62949470
I met the guy and he squeezed my hand when he shook it, so I know he really is a rapist. I'll be kind enough to concede the handshake wasn't as damaging as a sexual assault though. Also:
>Tony Rinpoche
criiiiiiinge
>>62949470
>bitch boy afraid of alcohol and strong handshakes
>>62949480
No one is saying he didnt have sex with her. He had sex with her. The question is was it consensual.
>>62949595
Yet the burden of proof falls on the accuser. You cannot proof a negative.
And so it is my perogative to believe gira until there is proof to the contrary
>>62949691
NEVER mix business and pleasure.
>>62950216
Might as well just go the full mile so I could at least say and do whatever the fuck I want with my music without being held accountable to some indignant mob of lifeless college students
>>62949691
Just don't get drunk with other musicians. You can wake up and have a dick inside your ass.
>>62949424
>0 evidence
This isn't a court of law though. If a friend came to you and said "don't hang out with mike, he stole money from me one time", you wouldn't go "oh yeah, show me evidence or I won't believe you". You'd maybe give Mike the benefit of the doubt, but acknowledge that he's not 100% trustworthy and take that into consideration in your future interactions with him.
No one is asking for Gira to be arrested, even Larkin Grimm. This isn't a situation where anything needs to be proven or where the truth will eventually be conclusively decided. It's based on two peoples' differing interpretations of something that happened years ago. Do we now dismiss Gira as an evil rapist, burn all our Swans records and never speak of him again? Of course not. Do we acknowledge that maybe he fucked up and did something really inappropriate? Yes, we entertain that possibility and accept that maybe he did do it and that, unfortunately, this might taint our perspective on a man a lot of us respect.
>>62949470
Oh fuck is that really Tony Visconti?
>>62950838
this is the internet
if you're not hardline you're part of the problem
realistic positions are for SJWs
>>62950838
>If a friend came to you and said
I didn't know Larkin was your friend.
>>62948239
>Im stating why the general public doesn't believe him
>He cheated on his wife regardless he fucked up.
Yeah it's this that gets me. He acknowledged that he was cheating on his wife after first saying that she was lying.
He doesn't appear to have a consistent story, and the admission paints him as morally-questionable.
>>62949470
Beta male genocide when?
>>62948897
No he didn't, can you faggots not read? He said the awkward encounter was "never consumated".
>>62950216
>>62950772
I doubt Gira would be in the position he is in now if he didn't piss off Larkin.
>>62949691
There's seriously no point to making music anymore. You're going to be competing, whether you want to compete or not, with hundreds of thousands of other musicians with zero sense of loyalty and a serious crabs-in-a-bucket mentality, for the attention of a public that craves suffering artists and diamond-in-the-rough storylines.
>>62942631
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks they look identical.
>>62950838
>this might taint our perspective on a man a lot of us respect.
not only taint but damage both his career and personal life for good
because even if you don't, there are a lot of people out there ready to boycott the man and his band for this, even though it's something none of us are involved in or can know of for sure
grimm claims that she doesn't want to hurt his career over this but it obviously will and she fucking knows it. If Gira was suddenly charged of rape and went to court and there was investigation involved things would be a lot different, but instead this ended up being a retarded social media war and I call bullshit on that.
>>62949480
Gira is an awkward motherfucker who thinks he's much smarter than he really is. It's not so surprising that he fumbled this one.
>>62949470
Hahahaahahaahhahahaahaahahhahahaa his handshake was too hard therefore rapist
ITT: we pick who we'll claim raped us to help sell our upcoming albums.
i choose thom yorke
>you can't prove me wrong
>by asking me for evidence you're trivializing rape culture
>sexist pigs get out
>>62945981
you were raped and didn't even know it. sad really.
>>62951254
>There's seriously no point to making music anymore.
you act like getting attention is only thing to gain from making music...
>>62951254
what about those musicians who are out there right now with tons of music that hasn't and will not be released? those are the real heroes. keep that shit to yourself. music is expression. or it can be. it can also be a vehicle to fuck up your life even more. only difference is you have an audience.
>>62951582
>>62951610
>you act like getting attention is only thing to gain from making music...
exactly
>>62951582
>>62951610
The only reason anyone makes art is to get money or attention.
If you're doing it strictly for yourself and not releasing it, it's a hobby.
If you're doing it for yourself and others and releasing it, it's art.
If you're doing it for yourself and releasing it, you're either full of crap or you're going for the "I only do this for myself" angle in interviews that helps paint you as a Treau Artiste.
>>62951693
>If you're doing it for yourself and others and releasing it, it's art.
Well yes, art isn't supposed to be a selfish thing. It's intended to be a way to connect to other people.
>>62951740
I'm saying the only line between art and hobby is the attention factor.
>>62950838
/thread.
also, just for clarification's sake:
- any sexual act between two people where ENTHUSIASTIC CONSENT is not given by both parties can be considered rape
- consent cannot be given while overly intoxicated
That's just the way things are. It's what your children are going to be taught in high school and college. Let's just accept it and move on, pls.
>>62951781
Is art really just for simple attention?
I don't think it's that cut and dry. I think art is more social than that.
>>62951693
>the only reason anyone makes art is to get money or attention
is fighting against that impulsion practical? does it ever happen? is that worse than not accepting attention? and if so, who does it effect other than the nameless artist? Separating the art from the artist looks like to be the best way but is art "art" without the artist? next time on Dateline.
>>62951815
>- consent cannot be given while overly intoxicated
I do love the fact that this doesn't apply to males at all
>>62951837
>but is art "art" without the artist?
No it isn't, art is made by human beings with intent.
>>62950838
Where did you met Larkin? Share that mayne
>>62951892
i mean after it exists and the artist is not present. i wonder if people would even care for the piece.
>>62951883
why wouldn't this apply to males?
also, heterosexual cis-male rape = heterosexual cis-female rape is one of the stupidest false equivalencies ever and everyone in this thread knows it.
>>62951883
>I do love the fact that this doesn't apply to males at all
Unfortunately it doesn't, nor often does the burden of public trust.
This is something that must be begrudgingly accepted by men.
>>62942688
Wew lad, don't cut yourself on that edge m8
>>62951815
>he never has experienced drunk sex
lmaoing at ur life
>>62951944
>i mean after it exists and the artist is not present. i wonder if people would even care for the piece.
Obviously yes. What an artist creates ultimately lives a life of its own after that point.
But it's humans that make art and not say, robots or machines. Art is the product of a will or a mind that has intent behind it.
>>62951956
>why wouldn't this apply to males?
It just doesn't.
You have two equally drunk persons. A man and a woman. In the drunken haze they have sex.
This means that the man raped the woman because the woman couldn't fully consent. Somehow the man is responsible for his actions while the woman isn't.
>>62950879
Would explain why he's not used to strong handshakes.
>>62951896
>>62951037
>what is an analogy
>>62951965
>implying having experienced drunk sex personally changes the definition of rape.
lol. also, I can just about guarantee I've had more drunk sex than you, kiddo.
>>62950879
If it is then he should probs know that Bowie was more of a sick fuck (allegedly.)
Someone told me he bummed a 14 year old. Doesn't get worse than that. Unless they're younger than 14 obvs.
>>62952083
yes. not sure why this is so hard for corners of 4chan and reddit to understand. women and men have fundamentally different bodies and therefore fundamentally different sexual responsibilities. in a casual heterosexual sexual encounter, the man's primary responsibility is to secure consent; the woman's is not to get pregnant. this is obvious if you spend literally 30 seconds thinking about it.
>>62946056
>about 90%
Don't you mean 92%?
>>62951693
The only one full of crap is you. You think you can singlehandedly define something that has existed before you, exists outside of you, and will continue to exist after you die, when in reality not even 1 living artist knows or cares about your stupid definition lol.
>>62952116
Intoxication counts for being drugged. If you get your ass drunk and end with an ungly girl on bed is your fault alone. You can't go all "rape" over shameful fucks.
92% of posters are rapists. What side are you on?
>>62951324
Yeah well it was about time people got off the Swans hype train anyway. They're not THAT good.
>>62952147
Bowie was a real rockstar snorting cocaine off underage groupies asses back in the day. That's a real hero.
Gira is a sad cowboy man who can barely fund an album, or even get it up for a long enough time to rape somebody properly. What a fucking disappointment.
>>62952109
It's not a valid analogy, because your friend is a known and trusted source, larkin is a complete stranger.
>>62952083
>Somehow the man is responsible for his actions while the woman isn't.
Rape is based on a lack of consent, legally and socially the implications are that if a woman is inebriated her consent isn't valid while the man's is.
Although technically this isn't true, and people who are intoxicated but still very conscious have control over their own actions.
The problem with all of this, is that a lot of sex is drunken sex, and this murky territory undermines the level of trust between men and women in society.
>>62952314
okay, you missed the entire point.
>>62952322
I thought she 'awoke' to find Gira with his dick in her. You can't consent if you're asleep.
>>62952382
No I didn't. I know exactly what you're point is and I refuted it.
I think you know this though
>>62952389
she says one thing he's says another
>>62952389
Gira never put his dick off in the first place.
>>62952389
>I thought she 'awoke' to find Gira with his dick in her. You can't consent if you're asleep.
Correct, what she says constitutes rape.
And with no evidence people are more likely to assume her story is true, but the legal burden of proof is on her.
>>62952419
Well he pretty much confirmed sexual contact too
>>62952425
If he didn't stick his dick, or at least attempt to, why would she claim rape? Someone on top of you saying "this isn't right" can't be classed as sexual assault. Its very weird and creepy but not sexual.
>>62952293
Well isn't this one valid fucking reason to let a man be destroyed.
Because this anon thinks he wasn't that good anyways.
>>62952416
The point wasn't about who's right and who is wrong. Whoever the fuck Larkin is doesn't matter.
>>62952519
problem?
>>62952532
Are you mentally retarded? If larkin is not your friend, the analogy is horse shit, because her word can't be compared to your friend's word as if its the same shit.
Here, a few more times while I'm at, since you didn't seem to procress the first 40:
>If larkin is not your friend, the anology is horse shit.
>If larkin is not your friend, the anology is horse shit.
>If larkin is not your friend, the anology is horse shit.
>If larkin is not your friend, the anology is horse shit.
>>62952516
He also used words "consensual" and "not consummated"
>why would she claim rape?
better question yet, why would she claim rape 8 years later and not immediately?
Check that
https://youtu.be/waMDqEm62l8
>>62951064
He said she was lying about the rape not about him cheating on his wife.
>>62942631
The fact that so many books still name Swans "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rapist band ever only tells you how far cock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or most prolific sexual predators of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial rapist Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rape critics are still blinded by commercial success: Swans raped more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rape critics are often totally ignorant of the cock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that Michael Gira did anything worth of being saved.
They didn't consummate, ergo they didn't have sex, ergo there's no rape.
if you were to rape, would you rape larkin grimm? yeah, bullshit
>>62953045
>He said she was lying about the rape not about him cheating on his wife.
I know this, but him admitting to cheating on his wife compromises his integrity.
It's a bad move that leads people to believe that he did do what she said he did.
It's why Gira is a fucking retard who should have let an attorney advise him on what to say, but no, Gira being Gira, is a self-important jackass.
>>62953263
twist: this is what his attorney told him to say
>>62953368
Then why admit cheating on his wife?
That's a really bad PR move.
>>62953263
>implying it's not Grimm being the self-important jackass here
After posting her original story she hasn't been anything but a smug bastard over this
If I was Jennifer I would be equally pissed off at this shit
>>62953593
We know what Grimm is.
But Gira is notoriously egotistical, and can't resist the opportunity to open his mouth.
>>62953435
Maybe they're going for "he must be innocent because why would someone admit they cheated on their spouse"
>>62946091
Ur a hack
>>62953910
Well it backfired.
Also he doesn't go into specifics, he doesn't describe his account with enough detail, or how Larkin behaved.
It's what leads people to believe he's hiding something.
