'Simulacra' Music?
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
What umbrella term would accurately describe albums such as:
OPN - R+7
James Ferraro - FSV
Giant Claw - DARK WEB
Jerry Paper - Big Pop for Chameleon World
as well as PC Music's output
>'Simulcra' Music
lol cool bored-rillard ref m8
ideologycore
>>53332749
>lol cool bored-rillard ref m8
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Is your response the simulacra of a meme?
Midijams
Plastique
Computer Music
>>53332749
More like BORINGLARD xD
only time will tell
>>53332873
>>53332665
Ugh, let's please not ruin a legitimate area of philosophy with pseudo-intellectual kids adopting words they don't understand to give reinforcement to their slowed down Diana Ross
>>53332873
I don't understand how you can appreciate any of this (besides R+7) without being familiar with Baudrillard.
>>53332936
>bored-rillard
>Baudrillard
damnit anon, here I was looking at http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/users/boredrillard
>>53332874
>Computer Music
That's an older term for computer-assisted, generated or performed academic music.
>>53332665
I think you're referring to "hifi" producing, because the only two albums somewhat similar in composition and feel you listed are Giant Claw's and OPN's albums, the rest of them just use hifi but don't sound similar
>>53333159
They are made up of samples of comercial media.
I thought that was OP's point.
how about we call it
AESTHETICS
how about it fellers
>>53333228
R+7 has almost no samples.
>>53333258
Let's make it A E S T H E T I C S instead and I'm on board.
>>53333376
oooh yes
oooh wait
how about
we change the C to a ©
>>53332987
>http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/users/boredrillard
>underrated post
>>53333279
wasn't Zebra made with a cat food add sample? I don't really know.
>>53333228
>>53333279
Both not true but I forgive u
From my knowledge R+7 is mostly samples (but it's not explicitly commercial samples, that was Replica) and Giant Claw is obviously all old RnB samples. FSV, PC Music, and Jerry Paper I don't think even use samples (especially sure with Jerry Paper, it explicity says so on the bandcamp, but I'm not so sure about FSV, I could imagine some samples on there [although it was my understanding it was midi sounds mainly])
>>53333738
The only identified sample is from a mark isham track. I'm 99% sure he used omnisphere, refx nexus, korg wavestation and the roland d50 to do the entire album. At the very least he used a wavestion and m1.
>>53333753
...which is why I said I think he's refering to the hifi sound. It's unmistakably in the production sound in each of these albums
>>53332665
PC Music? How the fuck are you lumping them in with OPN and Ferraro?
Simulcra
Hyperreal
>>53333753
Whosampled lists one entry from R+7. FSV is indeed mostly midi, apart from a few scattered samples, mostly ringtones, skype noises and in one instance the Wii menu music.
>>53333832
considering opn has played shows with them and collaborated with their labelhead it's not really unfair
>>53333876
Yes but listening to the album it's obviois he used other samples throughout.
Not as many as Replica but still a fair amount
>>53333753
I really don't hear that many samples of the album. If anything I feel like he sampled most of the sounds from himself and then processed them.
>>53333939
A lot of it sounds VERY sequenced though. Keep in mind that he's been making synth music a lot longer than he's made sample-based music.
>>53333894
I get that, but it's like saying Björk and Haxan Cloak are similar because they collab'd. I can see the similarities, but I think they're in a different taxonomy from OPN, Ferraro and the like.
>>53332665
diana ross slowed down
>>53333970
Well he probably sequenced and chopped them up within his album, the sounds still sound incredibly like samples (when they aren't obviously synths, it's usually pretty easy to tell).
>>53333944
could be, I mean it's still a "sample" just not of something in the public then
>>53332665
As much as this music tries to evaluate simulcra and hyperreality, it, most of the time, just ends up being boring. It's a valid and interesting subject area, especially in the post-internet age, but the music referenced fails to express what it means and how it feels to live in this era.
>>53334069
When you are talking about samples what do you mean? Are you sure you're not confusing samples and bad rompler presets?
>>53332665
Well if the latter 3 are anything like R+7 they're all boring electronic music.
>>53334069
What in particular in R + 7 doesn't sound like a synth to you? I can see where you might mistake something for a sample, but at the moment I can't think of any sounds on that record that couldn't be reproduced on a keyboard.
>>53333975
I do not agree, but you're entitled to your opinion.
I'd say their soundpallette is similar.
>>53334082
>how it feels to live in this era
I don't think that anyone is earnestly attempting to portray that, though. I think people like Daniel Lopatin and James Ferraro have a fair amount of tongue in their cheeks when they make music like this. It's supposed to be viewed through a lens of irony imo.
>>53334185
It's not supposed to be viewed through a lense of irony. It might be humorous, sure, but it's not ironic.
>>53334241
So these guys can't afford to use anything but cheesy presets on their keyboards then?
>>53334185
If it is irony, it is certainly non-effective irony. It is the irony of desensitization.
there's nothing cheesy about the music, the cheese is in your mind
it is your own cheese
>>53334282
Not that guy, but I don't think Dan is very talented at synthesizing sounds. I think that's the reason he stuck with his Juno 60 for so long when he could have bought a Jupiter or something grander.
>>53334282
Reminder: Daniel Lopatin has been making diverse synth music for almost a decade
>>53334282
Cheesy differs very much from person to person.
>>53334285
Well it's part of that whole wave of post-ironic media. Accepting the fact that disingenuity as a new form of communication. That you have to practically bite your tongue off to get by these days.
>>53334339
This might be true.
>>53334352
His synths haven't really changed too terribly much. But that only proves my point: dude could play with less cheesy sounds, but he chooses not to.
>>53334389
Cheese isn't necessarily bad.
electronic
>>53334402
>Accepting disingenuity as a new form of communication**
>>53334427
yes because sarcasm is new, isn't it?
>>53334113
Nono, I'm sure he used a bit of that but no
>>53334128
The beginning of Americans and as well as throughout, He She is obviously samples, I hear a bit of Inside World possibly using samples, Zebra obviously, maybe a tiny part of Along, Cryo towards the end... To be honest the way he uses samples in this is totally different than Replica, it's obviously very tiny micro samples, and even on the songs I didn't list there are probably little micro samples.
ALSO just for reference, there's only one "confirmed" sample on whosampled for Replica, and he very explicity stated it's filled with samples.
>>53334402
>Accepting the fact that disingenuity as a new form of communication
It's not a new form of communication. It is, by definition, noncommunication, and noncommunicative music is simply poor music. If it can't express anything to me, why would I listen to it?
>>53334414
electronic > percussion > wind > string
>>53334472
nobody claimed there were no samples on R+7, the claim was that calling it a sample-based album is absurd, which it is.
wow you people are getting really upset about someone making an album with an old synth
>>53334402
>Cheese isn't necessarily bad.
Never said it did, but what accounts for cheese varies still.
>>53334446
I never said it was new. I'm talking about how pervasive it seems to have become. Weird twitter. Ironically bad television shows. Ironically bad movies. Used to be that this was fringe stuff.
>>53334475
>If it can't express anything to me, why would I listen to it?
Because it got BNM. I refuse to believe that Daniel Lopatin chose to use the synths on R+7 without at least considering the fact that they sounded dated as fuck and that they would obviously stand out amongst other contemporary music for that very reason.
>>53334533
well the m1 is technically playing back samples
but it's a pointless distinction in this context
>>53334550
Standing out through regression is not standing out at all.
>>53334475
a lot of the pieces are honestly pretty damn good on their own terms though
>>53334472
He She is only one sample. The sound that I think you think is a sample is a synthesizer going through a formant filter that's switching to different formants.
>>53334550
yeah sorry that was way too snarky for this time of night
i agree i like honesty, but i think stuff like 0pn has it in spades, it's just not where you'd expect to find it
>>53334570
And yet here it is, being talked about daily the Internet over.
>>53334589
Don't get me wrong, I'm not shit-talking OPN. I love the guy and his entire catalogue. I realize that there is honesty in R+7 and Replica, but it's that "new" kind of honesty. The kind you have to sift for between memes, irony or whatever. Not saying he's a meme either, in case anybody tries to light me up for it.
broporwave
>>53334670
underrated post
>>53334657
Popularity is not indicative of quality or uniqueness. Example: Pop Music
>>53332924
>philosophy
>legitimate
>>53334657
Give me an example of old time honesty
>>53334697
What in the fuck are you even talking about? I get that you're trying to wax philosophic or whatever, but none of what you're saying means anything. If you'd read the thread, you'd realize that I fuckin like OPN and am only talking about a small percentage of the sounds he's used in producing his entire catalogue of music.
captcha: memad
>>53334747
Everything pre-Tim Heidecker, Lil B and Sharknado.
>>53334657
yeah i get you
the way i approach a lot of his stuff is like its almost a kind of hip hop
the way he uses references and stuff, it's savvy and smart, but it doesn't require the audience know it all, it can just do its thing anyway
which i think with r+7 is creating that old-feeling vibe without having any of the cheesy things that led to those sounds being considered cheesy in the first place
ie he's stripping all the crap out in a similar way to a hip hop producer pulling a break out of a track
>>53334069
I mean it is possible to make your own "samples" that sound sourced, ie your own original other track you then chopnscrew. Lots o work but been done before
>>53334747
not him, check the rifts compilation and returnal. Rifts is pretty much the same album copy pasted 3 times.
>>53334747
Seinfeld :^)
>>53334839
Hardly
>>53334881
Yeah that's just jokey tangerine dream
>>53334888
Nice
>>53334888
This, seriously.
>>53334849
I can vibe with that. I mean, I get that he experiments. He took those synth sounds and used them in an intelligent way. They're not devoid of context, though. It's not distracting to me when I listen to it or anything, but I'm aware of it.
>>53334888
Yes.
>>53333032
Like Spectralism?
>>53334992
Not necessarily.
>>53334690
Give it time to grow my child
>>53334960
yeah, i think he wants it to be in that uncomfortable grey area
pure projection obviously lol
I'm just going to chime in here and point out that even as OPN's sound has changed over time, his music has always explored themes of humanity's relationship with technology and media...often on multiple levels.
Look at "Sleep Dealer". It's probably the most accessible track on Replica and it's built around samples from a fucking television commercial. Moreover, the commercial in question involves a computer speaking to a person and recommending him a specific brand of chewing gum.
As for the cheap-sounding sampled instruments on R+7, I don't interpret their usage either as tongue-in-cheek irony or as an endorsement of them being particularly beautiful sounds in their own right. They're used because they evoke artificiality effectively. Much of OPN's music feels like a soundtrack to exploring different physical spaces, and R+7 in particular feels like exploring very synthetic spaces, almost like computer generated approximations of real places.
Or maybe I'm reading too far into it. In any case, I think R+7 is compositionally great and very adventurous. It's probably my favorite album of the past few years. I guess I can see why people would be put off by the sound palette but the album wouldn't make me feel exactly the way it does with different sounds. There's definitely some intentional uncanny valley thing going on.
>>53335028
I'm already fully erect.
>>53335092
this all makes sense, especially that last part, i wouldn't change a thing about r+7
>>53334580
Actually there are at leadt two, one of the vocal samples that develops into it.
>>53334533
Actually I thought the arguement was there weren't any samples, or very few, which is absurd.
>>53332749
>>53332924
simulacra
>an unsatisfactory imitation or substitute
that sounds like an appropriate description of OP's albums to me...
>>53335092
But isn't your interpretation of the instruments in R+7 informed by your preconceived attitude toward those particular synth sounds? That they sound so uncomfortably artificial probably has much to do with our association with them and shitty, clunky early 90s tech.
I agree with how they manage to convey space, though. It's masterful.
>>53335182
But there are only very few samples. Most of the ones there are are one shots even.
>>53335251
If you can't hear what I'm talking about then, I'm sorry; there's a good amount of samples on there
>>53332665
Does anyone know if Dan responds to emails? I emailed him on his old gmail address. (His new one goes to some managers)
>>53335304
samples of what?
>>53335229
>But isn't your interpretation of the instruments in R+7 informed by your preconceived attitude toward those particular synth sounds?
It is, but it's not like OPN is aware of this preconceived cultural attitude. Art doesn't exist in a vacuum
>>53335805
***not like OPN ISN'T aware. Completely fucked that up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3GJ-cYn6I idk but all that music reminds me of this shit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3GJ-cYn6I
>>53335805
>>53335840
I understand that, and that's why I think he used those synths in the first place. Artificial sincerity. Irony. It's all made out of the same, weird substance.
>>53335871
i linked that video twice fuck me in the butt
>>53332665
post-vaporwave
>>53335941
nah its called aesthetics
>>53335880
how is making reference insincere
>>53336028
It's insincere because he's building a world that 1. doesn't exist and 2. never really existed in the first place in the listener's head by using sounds that we can't help from evoking a time and place from 20 years ago. Not that it isn't brilliant.
>>53332665
>mfw I know Giant Claw
really nice guy. He's been doing his thing for a looong time now. Glad to see recognition spreading
>>53336106
>1. doesn't exist currently**
is what I meant
>>53332665
gud enough for trap simulacra
>>53336309
>trap simulacra
whoa, crossing dimensions there
>>53336309
fuck idol is a choon and a half
>>53336153
neat! After DARK WEB I'm looking forward to whatever else he creates.
>>53335695
not him but you must not be familiar with how sampling works outside of hip hop
>>53336458
sampling is the reduction of a continuous signal to a discrete signal
>>53335880
Why do you equate playing with that cultural preconception with irony/insincerity?
>>53336106
I don't see how that's insincere. Are science fiction/fantasy films insincere/ironic because they portray worlds that don't exist?
I feel like you're using "irony" in a different way than I am. I don't think that OPN is winking at you with the fake children's choirs in Chrome Country. He's conscious of and playing with your preconceptions about those sounds, yes, but ultimately, he's using them to build to a moment of sincere beauty.
