What does "production value" mean?
It's a buzzword for people who don't know anything about music trying to explain music quality.
>>52711375
the quality of the production.
it involves everything from the mics, placement and preamps, through to the mixing, editing and mastering.
compare ITAOTS to The Crane Wife. the first has pretty shoddy production, the second does not.
How do I even know what's production shitty production? Maybe the instruments just sounds like that?
>>52712287
How the fuck does that equate to the quality of a hip hop album then? Thats not the music itself.
>>52712378
It doesn't necessarily have to. But when you hear an expertly engineered album, that shit stands out.
>>52712403
But its not exactly an argument for the quality of the music.
>>52712378
good quality hip hop production: any Kanye or MF Doom album
bad quality: Viper
>>52712445
But the production isn't the music.
>>52712441
No it's not. A good song is a good song. But a good song with good production can become a great song, or something like that.
>>52712441
Why not?
>>52712441
production has nothing to do with the music. its purely to do with the recording and mixing process.
an album can be amazingly produced by still have shit music. for example: Ed Sheeran
>>52712476
see
>>52712463
When people defend Kanye because of the production its like praising the quality of The Beatles because of what Epstein did in the studio. It says nothing about the music.
>>52712506
People defend more than the production, though. I think /mu/ meme'd you too hard bro.
>>52712441
It's irrelevant to the composition, but that's not all that the song it. The recording is part of the piece of art. That's why they have "song of the year" and "record of the year" at the grammies. One is the composition, one is the recording of the song.
>>52712521
I tend to stay out of rap threads, just something I noticed.
>>52712445
this is why 'production value' is kind of redundant in terms of music criticism
The appeal of Viper's music is the cloudy, muffled sound. Take that away and you lose a huge part of the intentional artistic expression.
>>52711375
>value
one of those words like "quality" with multiple meanings, which gets lost the second you toss it out among a befuddled herd of autists who are trying to dick helicopter themselves to the top of mount goodtaste
>>52712552
Only if it was indeed intentional. If it's an intention of the artist to make something sound pristine and it sounds like shit, then there is a criticism to be made there.
>>52712565
excellent mental image there freindo. Thanks
>>52712552
lol Viper's intention is to get you to give him money so he can buy drugs.
>>52712445
>good quality hip hop production: any Kanye
lol fuck off
Kanye's stuff is compressed to shit, fucking brickwalled garbage. You don't even know what production is.
>>52711375
Why did you make this thread again OP? Are you trying to meme?
>>52712583
How would you ever know if the artist intended to make something pristine?
>>52712599
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-q6bVhkUkI
>>52712565
>a befuddled herd of autists who are trying to dick helicopter themselves to the top of mount goodtaste
soulshattering memics, mr. memer
>>52712552
production is just one aspect of quality when judging an album or track.
originality
production
composition
performance
lyrics
effectiveness (does the piece do what it intended to do?)
etc
>>52712602
>implying I listen to Kanye
I just guessed that his shit would be well produced. I'm sure its loudness war as fuck
>>52712521
>>52712676
Shame hip hop fans never talk about anything but production.
>>52712565
>befuddled herd of autists who are trying to dick helicopter themselves to the top of mount goodtaste
kek
>>52712645
you wouldnt unless they told you.
i think music criticism tends to be more about the personal tastes and viewpoint of the individual doing the critiquing than the piece being presented
>How would you ever know if the artist intended to make something pristine?
You can argue that we'd never know for sure, but you can reasonably assume based on the sound. Viper is a more ambiguous case of "genius or retard", but most of the time lo-fi has a sound to it that is clearly distinguishable from "I tried to make it hi-fi and failed".
>>52712710
1. It's a way for them to deflect attention from the shitty music and lyrics
2. They don't even know what "production" actually is
>>52712710
I think a lot of people use "production" as a catch all that includes composition. Beats are an undeniably huge part of hip hop.
>>52712506
you're a fucking fool
when people talk about Kanye producing, their talking about the track, the beat, the sample, what in many albums would be instruments. It is absolutely relevant to the music's quality.
The other production is the mixing, or the quality of the recording of the music, things such as the crispness of the sound. It has to do with the sound quality which may affect the music quality, but not as greatly as the other kind of production. Kanye may or may not have anything to do with that, I really don't know
I can't believe I share a fucking board with these people
>>52712804
the lines do blur when you have producers making the beats as well. writing a drumbeat is composition, but the minute you tweak a level or add an effect, its production.
>>52712830
Well here's the other part that makes the term 'production' so confusing. Being a rock music producer is alot different from being a hiphop or electronic producer.
Rock guys work with the band who already have finished songs and offer suggestions about arrangement, instrumentation, extra parts or whatever.
Then it seems like what most people mean when they use the term producer in a hip hop context is beat maker.
>>52712830
>the track, the beat, the sample
So the bits of other peoples music then.
>>52712830
>when people talk about Kanye producing, their talking about the track, the beat, the sample, what in many albums would be instruments
so basically they don't even know what production is in the first place
thanks for clearing it up
So for hip hop its
1 - how well you put together the samples of other peoples music
2 - how well you recorded it
3 - how well your lyrics rhyme
Damn...
>>52712445
>Kanye
No. Maybe his earlier work, but his releases nowadays are affected by loudness war.
>MF Doom
Yes. All of the Stone's Throw hip hop artists have goat production.
>>52712602
And you know about production?
Explain in detail how kanyes shit is overcompressed/brickwalled.
Look at a fucking waveform
Learn what dynamics are
Jesus fuck kiddo.
Ebin meme face btw :)
>>52712970
This is pretty much all music m8
>>52712982
Only hip hops music is taken from other peoples already composed works though.
Production value in hip hop refers to how well a track is mixed and mastered. You could have a completely out of tune, out of sync track with ridiculously well done production.
>>52711375
>how to troll /mu/: ask a basic question about music theory or production
just gonna watch now
>>52712910
A producer the way Kanye is is sort of more like a composer.
The person who writes the music for each instrument, the melody etc.
In rock I suppose its also a shared responsibility of the band in some cases
The other kind of producer is more about making sure that what is being played in studio, comes out sounding the way it wants to be heard on a CD, pressing, or even in the context of a concert
>>52713009
Every artist draws inspiration from others. It's not exactly original to play a note on a guitar that has already been played a million times before. It's how you arrange it within the entire song.
>>52713009
>hip hop music =/= sampling
You don't have to do that to make Hip Hop.
>>52713009
Not all hip hop is sampling and rap.
Turntablism repertoire has written notation, creating a musical part or score for their compositions and pieces. Great examples are DJ Yoda & Heritage Orchestras Concerto, Martin Tetreaults musique concrete for turntables, Kid Koalas Your Moms Favorite DJ, eriKm and DJ Spookys Ice Music works.
Of course, the history of the turntable being used as a musical instrument though has its roots dating back to the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s when musique concrète and other experimental composers (such as John Cage, Halim El-Dabh, and Pierre Schaeffer), used them in a manner similar to that of today's producers and DJs, by essentially sampling and creating music that was entirely produced by the turntable. Cage's Imaginary Landscape No. 1 (1939) is composed for two variable speed turntables, frequency recordings, muted piano and cymbal. Even earlier, Edgard Varèse experimented with turntables in 1930, though he never formally produced any works using them.
This school of thought and practice is directly linked to the current definition of hlp hop-related turntablism, though it has had an influence on modern experimental sound artists and composers such as Christian Marclay, Kid Koala, Otomo Yoshihide, Philip Jeck, DJ QBert and Janek Schaefer. These artists are the direct descendants of people such as John Cage and Pierre Schaeffer and are often credited as a variant to the modern turntablist DJ and producer.
>>52712565
>befuddled herd of autists who are trying to dick helicopter themselves to the top of mount goodtaste
god yes
>>52713114
Holy shit did you ACTUALLY type all of this shit out?
>>52713221
some people like to do this thing called "constructive posting"
you should try it some time.
hell, I should try it some time
>>52713221
>What is pasta?
My pasta in fact, bastards.
Saying that the value of music is independent of the production is like saying a band is good independently of it's guitar player (let's imagine said band has a shitty guitar player). Because I can have a great idea for a guitar riff, but if I can't play the guitar I won't make that riff, the same way I can record a great song but if it isn't well produced it won't sound exactly the way I want it, even if I want it to be all lo-fi and shit.
>>52712445
>good production quality
>Kanye
Why are Kanye fans so retarded and musically ignorant?
>>52714097
I posted that, and am not a kanye fan.
see
>>52712706
>>52712565
top kek
>>52712645
You don't just use high end equipment to accidentally produce hi fidelity recordings.... Go ahead and try to find good mic placement and choosing appropriate preamps and eq and compression settings by accident.
>>52713341
Its more akin to sayin a band is great live but in reality the mix is shit and the engineer is sending a wall of mud FOH
>>52712552
>thinking Viper's shitty production is intentional
top kek m8
