Why is corny and contrived mallgoth kitsch suddenly all the rage with "respectable and sophisticated" music critics and listeners?
Chelsea Wolfe, Savages, Iceage, Cult Of Youth, Zola Jesus etc. This is music for angsty 16-year old girls, so what's the deal?
>>61513493
i dont know what you consider respectable and sophisticated but i can assure you that shit is not well received among that demographic.
>>61513526
I'm not talking about Wire magazine-type sophistication, more about the almost unanimous critical acclaim all of those artists have received from publications which actually hold a good degree of sway among "hipper", more fashionable listeners(as opposed to trashier publications like Kerrang or whatever).
http://www.metacritic.com/music/final-days/cult-of-youth
http://www.metacritic.com/music/youre-nothing/iceage
http://www.metacritic.com/music/silence-yourself/savages
http://www.metacritic.com/music/pain-is-beauty/chelsea-wolfe
Bump.
>it's 2012 and he isn't in to death metal yet
wow what a PLEG
>Zola Jesus
What? Shes like, synth pop dude.
>>61513493
why do u give a fuck about music critics in the first place? grow up faggot
>>61513962
(can't wake up)
>>61513963
Eh, I suppose her new album's shed the mallgoth shit for a more generic sparse pop sound(I could be wrong though, only heard the few singles) but everything preceding that was comically pompous "dark and mysterious" pseud goth pop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah8QWamNXWk
>>61513965
>grow up faggot
Watch your mouth.
>>61513493
It sounds like someone has a hard time separating image from music. I think the image is campy at best, but the music is pretty good.
>>61513493
>any of those
>mallgoth
they're certainly hipster goth but mallgoth refers to mansonite shit
also corny melodrama can be fun in small doses
>>61513493
imo it's because
>comfortably edgy
living a comfortable life while being edgy
your "mallgoth kitsch" is probably just a niche of subcultures that people express their comfortable edge through
>>61514105
stick a cock in your mouth faggot
>>61513962
>PLEG
hwat
>>61513493
>This is music for angsty 16-year old girls
What isn't?
>>61513493
>suddenly
All those bands have been pretty big for the last couple of years now, and have steadily built followings for themselves
All music journalists are paid off, the entire industry is a fucking joke. Nothing but English majors writing about things they can only superficially understand.
>corny
I really don't see what is corny and contrived about any of those bands
>this is music for angsty 16-year old girls
No it isn't. Angsty 16 year old girls listen to pop or pop-rock
Because you're an angsty 17-year old thus you are not allowed to enjoy things.
it's okay to want to fuck chelsea wolfe just don't delude yourself into thinking she's actually a good artist
Why is she dressed like a Jedi?
can you describe without using vague buzzwords why you think iceage aren't a good band?
>>61515336
wait... none of her albums are good????
>>61513493
you're a special kind of cancer, aren't you?
>>61516193
nah, it's all vapid shite, all sound and no substance, only good as background tunes and even then i'd rather listen to dub techno or some shit desu
i remember thinking that her acoustic album maybe could have been good since i imagined it would just be guitar and voice but nah, even that turd was drenched in effects
i remember seeing chelsea wolfe's photos a lot on pitchfork and shit and just figuring she was some quirky indie rock artist who got off on looking like a ridiculous goth caricature
i could just not imagine these types of sites peddling music that was also a ridiculous goth caricature(at least i could not imagine it at the time in the early 2010s), so imagine my surprise when i actually heard chelsea wolfe for the first time
really lame stuff
she'd probably be really interesting to fuck though, no denying that
Chelsea Wolfe is looking pretty tubby these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgwcWia5Wqc
I want to FUCK. WOLFE'S. ASS.
>>61516299
What is your opinion of Slayer's new album in relation to the rest of their 21st century albums? How do you like Kind of Blue?
ITT OP misses the fact that cheese is part of this music.
I don't think anyone makes dark music without a sense of self awareness these days.
>>61517587
Agreed. I wanna suck a turd from her ass. I think people give her a bit too much shit. It all stems from the new album. But whatever. If you enjoy an artists music, listen to it. If not, don't. It's by all means fine to discuss an artist, and dislike one, but just picking a group of artist, calling them mallgoth, and saying everything they do sucks is pretty douchey.
>>61517678
>I don't think anyone makes dark music without a sense of self awareness these days.
Go read any interviews with Chelsea Wolfe, Sean Ragon or Elias Ronnenfelt and then try saying the same thing.
Savages had a fucking manifesto printed out on their album cover.
>>61517739
It's pretty clearly tongue in cheek for Chelsea Wolfe. She uses the whole dark thing as a kind of aesthetic for the music. She mentioned in an interview the whole "goth" thing was a show and she doesn't dress in all black n all that outside of her photoshoots/live shit.
>>61517533
She looks pretty fit there. She did get a bit chubby back in the Pain is Beauty phase though.
>>61517762
Pretty much, she's playing dress up and there's some self-deprecating humor in her lyrics.
I see it as a reaction to pretentious "serious" music of the 2000s.
>>61517839
She's definitely conscious of the cheesy nature of it all. I feel like she gets way too much shit, especially for the new album. Back in the day she was doing some pretty fuckin unique stuff musically. She has changed a bit musically and it's admittedly less unique but shes still a wonderful artist. Too many people see the "edgy" darkness of the music and use that as a way to discredit it.
Dunno, pretty much all pop music (as opposed to "art" music) is juvenile in some way or another. You're just changing one type of kitch to another when the inevitable annual trend change comes. What's hip today is dated and embarrassing a couple of years later. I've no idea why anyone would even want to be acclaimed among this type of people, they're doomed to irrelevancy in a very short amount of time. And I'm not saying that pop music is bad, just that it's very rarely that smart and that the way the trends change is ridiculous.
But it's true that most music journalists aren't musically educated which is why they don't actually write about the song material that much in their reviews but the politics, aesthetics, sense of novelty and such found on the record. Interviews are the worst, they're pretty much never about the songs and always about the musician and his life. I'm not saying that I'm very educated about music but it's obvious that pop music journalism is written and read by people who know very little about music.
>>61517888
Well, I like Simple Death just because of how cheesy and over the top it is, but I still don't think her new album is as good as her older ones.
The point is that she enjoys making dark music, and if you do that sort of thing you should have an image that matches.
>>61517972
Of course it's cheesy. The new album is definitely inferior to the older ones, but it's by no means bad. You definitely must match your image to what you play. Best Coast or whatever couldn't go out on stage in druid robes with a fog machine running behind them. Or maybe they could lol who knows.
>>61517941
I don't think any of the artists he mentioned are considered pop by anyone. You must also remember it isn't an artist's decision to become critically acclaimed among those types. This is pretty obvious, but I honestly think people should just form their own opinions and avoid music critics altogether. That being said, it is also good to see another perspective of something. But still, what you enjoy should be of no concern to others, and you should not be concerned of what others think of what you enjoy.
>>61518093
I just used the word pop to mean non-academic/art music, the music that publications like Pitchfork generally write about. Obviously not all of is of the pop genre. You right about lots of artists probably not having much a say about where they'll get hyped and where they'll get their audience, especially if they get huge enough to be relevant to big American indie sites. All the more reason to not read the reviews though, I think. Unfortunately these sites probably do have an influence on what sells and what doesn't, but the world isn't fair. The quickly changing trends might even cause people leave Pitchfork etc too.
What you said about forming your own opinions is of course right. I think that there could be good music journalism but right now the vast majority of music reviews don't really even tell much about the music on the recording, even if they write about it it's usually vague and superficial.
>>61518093
The thing about her music is that while it's cheesy, it's not entirely lacking in authenticity.
Many musicians do write about their genuine feelings, there isn't much of a point towards investing time in art without sincerity. All this is not without self-reflection, especially when it comes to "goth" music, which without any sort of self-awareness, humor, and melodramatic theatrics is frivolous.
>>61518583
No, you are definitely right. But I don't believe that makes her a bad artist. I think it's a bit heretical when someone likes say Death Grips, but goes out of their way to call someone like Chelsea Wolfe edgy (not saying you do this or whatever. Just an example). It's like you said, if the music isn't sincere to some degree, then its pretty much pointless. I don't consider Chelsea Wolfe "goth" but i can see why people would. When I think goth, i think more like Siouxsie and the Banshees n shit. A lot of people (here at least) seem to toss "goth" around as a way to undermine an artist and it's pretty silly imo.
>>61518395
I would love to see more journalism focused on the musical steps an artist takes. As a musician and songwriter myself it would be interesting to see how artists I enjoy go about doing what they do. Not only that, but just more about their music itself. But, of course, interviews are typically for the wider audience, which pretty much is just after the artists personality or aesthetic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoodNwr7RZE
>>61519480
I was waiting for this to come up, since I was more or less thinking of it with my posts.
>>61518583
>>61517972
>>61517839
>>61517678
His whole point with that video was that goth is supposed to be a genre that is beyond reproach for being completely cannibalized because people who grew up through the 1990s-2000s had to deal with mallgoth music being pandered to them as teens until it was beaten to death.
>>61517587
Yeah, me too.
Top Tier Waifu.
Maybe some Zola Jesus can be labeled as you put it, but she has shed that mostly
Also i love her voice either way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HFw3yOuauw
I don't really understand the appeal with IceAge.
>>61519656
Back off shes mine goddammit
>>61519786
Lead singer is good looking and gay, also hates his fans
bout it
>>61513493
because it's easier to make harsh noise than melodic, harmonic counterpoint. it's easier to wear all black than to employ colors in one's wardrobe. it's easier to put on a sad face and pretend to mope than to extend one's self into another person's life in a compassionate way.
it's easier to write about this music scene than to seek out microscenes and local subcultures. it's easier than grappling with music that has political undertones, that has violence or a disturbing legacy.
it's also easier to use dark, depressing aesthetics to make 16 year old special snowflakes feel "kvlt" and "spoopy." it's easier to be a mope than to be happy.
it's simply easier, that's all. it's bred out of laziness.
>>61519914
Every band up there is melodic and nothing like harsh noise though. This is prob b8 tho.
>>61519914
>it's easier to make harsh noise than melodic, harmonic counterpoint.
You really think this, don't you?
It's much more difficult to make dissonant music than melodic music, and I'm not talking about harsh noise, I'm talking about the sorts of chords or technical playing required to make it, especially if you're someone who learned melodic music first.
someone post the mallgoth chart already so this thread can achieve its shitty purpose and die
>>61520966
>implying this thread had purpose
