/classical/
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You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
You are currently reading a thread in /mu/ - Music
Name a proprietary scorewriter that can produce music as beautifully engraved as lilypond. Pic related (Westhoff's solo violin suite) is vanilla lilypond output, with no tweaking.
Protip: You can't
i dont know, i dont care
>>60933879
But you should:
>Musicians are usually more absorbed with performing than with studying the looks of a piece of music, so nitpicking typographical details may seem academic. But it is not. Sheet music is performance material: everything is done to aid the musician in letting her perform better, and anything that is unclear or unpleasant to read is a hindrance.
>Traditionally engraved music uses bold symbols on heavy staff to create a strong, well-balanced look that stands out well when the music is far away from the reader: for example, if it is on a music stand. A careful distribution of white space allows music to be set very tightly without crowding symbols together. The result minimizes the number of page turns, which is a great advantage.
>This is a common characteristic of typography. Layout should be pretty, not only for its own sake, but especially because it helps the reader in his task. For sheet music this is of double importance because musicians have a limited amount of attention. The less attention they need for reading, the more they can focus on playing the music. In other words, better typography translates to better performances.
So where do I start with /classical/?
>>60934331
With the monks.
The offset notes actually distract the fuck out of my eye.
Side note, best open source music typesetter? I'm tired of running finale in wine
>>60934492
>best open source music typesetter
Since lilypond is text based, you can use any text editor to do the scorewriting, so in my case it would be emacs. Otherwise Frescobaldi is a decent IDE for lilypond. WSIWYG editors that use a lilypond backend include Musescore and Denemo, but working with plain text is always the most versatile and fastest way.
>proprietary
I thought I was on /g/ for a second. But I'm in /classical/. How did I get in /classical/? You tricked me, OP!
>>60934786
We;re trying to trick you into listening to boring wig music.
>>60933758
That looks ugly as fuck, is that what violin music is supposed to look like? I only play piano so if I saw this I'd ask for a better version
>>60934865
Yeah well, I'm kinda listening to spook doots right now. I guess I could get my wig music off my external and see what I got
>>60934922
No, never seen violin music like that in my life. It's fucked
>>60934492
>>60934922
When typesetting string music with multiple stops, it's common to offset each note a little to avoid excessive crowding, this used to be done manually (see pic) but lilypond works it out automatically.
>>60935019
If you also happen to suffer from severe autism you can also turn on one option and let lilypond typeset some eye bleeding stuff that's more to your taste :^ )
>>60934922
>>60935019
It's common both ways. For example, in this example from Bach's second cello suite, the first and fourth example have separated voices with shortened stems in chords while the second and third are in a single stem (for the most part).
>>60935408
whoops. forgot the pic
>>60935424
that pic is triggering me for spider rape
>>60933758
Doesn't seem very beautiful to me.
Not much more than Finale anyways which I get for free.
>>60937421
Just try to use finale to produce the same output, and you'll find out that it takes much fiddling to get close to a pleasing output, since you need to manually adjust stem length, rest location, note locations etc while Lilypond does it all automatically. Even then there's still some way to a professional output since lilypond has a more readable music font, utilises optical spacing and sizing, and does lots of small but important things such as the thickness of ledger lines vs staff lines as well. This means that with lilypond you spend more time on the content rather than fiddling to make your music look good.
And that's not mentioning the huge number of advantages using text input brings how it opens up new workflows and the possibility for collaboration, the extensibility (using scheme), the cross platform support, and all the advantages of FOSS software against proprietary. The time you take getting used to it will pay off in the long run.
>>60937848
>:O you're allowed to shill a good product
>>60937888
* >:O you're _not_ allowed to shill a good product
>>60937848
>>60937421
Y'all should just hand engrave. Really. It takes more time, yes, but your scores are more expressive in terms of what you what done and what was going through your mind as you wrote the piece. I've also noticed when you use Finale or Sibelius, you write sibelius music. You rely on the program more than your actual musical creativity.
>>60937421
Lilypond does seem much better for renaissance music, and more flexible overall.
I'll stick to sibelius because I know it though.
Renaissance anon, post some of your beautiful scores set in lilypond!
This is the only one I have saved:
http://www.pdf-archive.com/2015/12/10/missa-l-homme-arme/
>>60937901
>>60937888
Silly anon, it's not shilling when said product is both free as in free beer and free as in freedom. Also check'd.
>>60937923
Hand engraving is extremely time consuming, and takes years of full time learning to master. In fact, even the large companies such as Henle and Baerenreiter have moved away from hand engraving and resorted to using their own engraving software in recent years. In comparison it's much easier to get started with software engraving if you need to distribute some music. And I'm not really advocating it as a composing tool, nothing really beats pen/pencil and manuscript paper for that, engraving software is just for when you need to create the final product for performance or distribution.
>>60933758
That Lindsey Stirling girl
>>60937923
>Writing straight into a notation program
fuck that. Write at an instrument, or in a DAW with nice libraries.
Although saying that you can actually load some pretty decent libraries into sibelius. I never bothered as its purely a notation program to me, never write in it. My friend had some nice libaries running in sibelius I remember. The automation leaves something to be desired in sibelius though. I've found you get far more control in a real DAW.
>>60937984
master-race is composing straight to paper and then using a notation software to engrave
>>60938015
Agreed. You write much freer by hand. No barlines or time signatures or tempi to constrict you. And it feels good. Well everything except doing alto clefs.
>>60937953
Gombert's magnificats on the 2nd and 3rd/8th tones:
https://fuwa.se/f/rdx97r.pdf
https://fuwa.se/f/soYLbG.pdf
Still trying to figure out why the actual 8th tone magnificat has a sudden expansion of vocal ranges to 3 octaves in the final verse. It's as if there are two deep basses just waiting in the corner and only joining for the final movement, it makes no sense.
>>60938087
alto clef is easy, just two lines and a backwards 3. i dont spend time drawing clefs and shit. I just try and get it done
>>60938120
Very tidy work as always.
I'm sure many publishers would be interested in this work. Do you get them published? or are they just for your own interest?
>>60938341
yeah its easy but never feels nice to write, and never looks as good as it should.
My treble clefs are 100% if I take my time. But I never do.
Lillypad is terrible
Try
>MuseScore
>Sibellius
Instead
>>60938356
I was just annoyed that I couldn't find the supposedly new edition by John Milsom anywhere, and the older edition was made more than 60 years ago. I'll probably slap a CC BY-SA on it and put it on cpdl when I get around to finishing the set.
>>60934041
true motherfuckers learn everything by ear. Mussorgsky was able to play an entire act of a Wagner's opera after hearing it just one time.
Glass is fucking awful
Just aced my history exam and I was thinking: Monteverdi doesn't get nearly enough credit.
>essentially responsible for the popularization of homophony and Greek ideals
>wrote better operas than anyone afterwards
>in general the only true innovator since Medieval music
>>60938886
>popularization of homophony and Greek ideals
sounds lewd to me
>>60938924
lmao didn't even consider that
but come on m8 you should know what homophony is.
>>60938938
those Italian fags corrupt our youth.
Listen to muh war music to let that Italian fairy fanciness out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EavKx5kp724
Where can I find good recordings of Schnittke's 9th symphony? I'm really thrilled, since it was written by an almost dead person. Its first bars sound like ghosts.
>>60939140
you have to summon schnittke
there is a dark ritual involving a BMP, 2 glasses of vodka and a picture of brezhnev
>>60939140
I like pic related. concerto grosso 1 is a great piece too.
>>60939592
>there is a dark ritual involving a BMP, 2 glasses of vodka and a picture of brezhnev
What does this have to do with Austrian jews though.
Lilypond is such a piece of shit the manual is worthless
Doesn't even say how to do a fucking dotted rhythm. Said a bunch of bullshit on how to change things WITH dotted rhythms but about how to make the damn things.
Why would you deal with this bullshit? autism exclusively
>>60940190
dotted rhythms are made by adding a . at the end of the note. a4. would be a dotted quarter A.
>>60940190
Anon do you know that pressing ctrl+f pops up this magical box on a browser and you can enter words and it will search the page for occurrences of that word? It's amazing, I know, why don't you give it a try some time?
>>60938886
>wrote better operas than anyone afterwards
Orfeo is great, the rest doesn't stand against Romantic operas
>>60938015
>not composing to tab
y'all niggas gay
>>60940265
>>60940296
why would you put up with all this bullshit though finale is so much faster
>>60940390
>not hearing music in their heads
What kind of quackery is this?
>>60940296
That looks some C++ shit, do I need to be some John Carmack nigga to use this?
>>60940418
>flailing your arms like a madman to move a mouse around a gooey is faster than typing notes with your hand on the home row at all times
Normies these days I swear.
>>60940479
Just spend 15 minutes reading through the manual and you would be able to do most basic stuff. Then search the notation reference when you need to do something complicated. You literally just need to type the notes and the durations and lilypond figures out everything else for you.
yay what could have been done with a clear interface in 5 minutes was instead done in 10-20 as the program couldn't figure out the octaves
what a brilliant program
>>60940586
>as the program couldn't figure out the octaves
file:///usr/share/doc/lilypond/html/Documentation/learning/simple-notation.html#pitches
>>60940740
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/simple-notation#pitches
If for some reason you're not on a unix-like system and therefore don't have a local copy of the manual in the usual place.
fuck now this is becoming fun
I guess because it's like a game you have to see if it works out after your input
send help
I've been using Musescore to enter my late uncle's compositions into an electronic format. As a novice user, would it be worth it for me to learn to use lilypond?
I really only know the basics of reading sheet music, and I like how musescore lets me play it as well.
>>60941115
once you get past the initial stuff in lilypond I find it a LOT easier to type this stuff out.
>>60941115
>>60941327
that being said idk if you want to store them for others that way. depends on what you'll do with those compositions.
>…it gives me great pleasure that B. is so kind to you. He very much likes to have fun with pretty and interesting young girls. I wish however, for your sake, that he would talk about music seriously with you. Did you play to him at all? If he should play to you ask him to play something by Bach.
>Clara Schumann about Brahms in a letter to her pupil, Ilona Eibenschütz
>He very much likes to have fun with pretty and interesting young girls
>He very much likes to have fun with pretty and interesting young girls
>He very much likes to have fun with pretty and interesting young girls
>young girls
>>60941440
His last wish was to have them all public, so I'm going to make a website that has the sheet music on it under creative commons. I also plan on posting midi files of the music, or even real recordings if I can scrounge up some people to play them.
As an aside, my uncle had very good penmanship. I thought all of his stuff was printed on a computer or something until I looked closely.
>implying anyone can touch the beauty of Barbers cello concertos
Come at me
>>60933758
how does one play this on violin?
>>60933758
>parallel fifths in bass/tenor voices in m.16
fuggin dropped brah
also, this >>60941839
What are the best interpretations of Tchaikovsky's symphonies?
>>60941973
Helix studios ones
>>60942018
What conductor?
>>60942055
Kyle Ross, though he's not conducting most time, rather being conducted.
>>60938087
>>60938120
>>60938382
>drawing clefs
I just write a big G, C and F in place of the clefs. Efficient and direct, as it should be.
>>60940479
>Carmack
>C++
lel, he uses lisp
if he were in charge it would look like this:
(relative (c 5)
(((a 1)) ((a 2) (a 4) (a 8) a)
((a 16) a a a (a 32) a a a (a 64) a a a a a a a (a 2))))
(relative (c 5)
(((a 4) a (a (dot 4)) (a 8))
(a (dot 8)) (a 16) a (a (dot 8)) (a 8) (a (dot 4)))))
>normie asks me for recommendations of classical music for studying since 'you know all about that stuff anon!'
>reply with a spotify playlist consisting of Stockhausen, Boulez, Ferneyhough, Xenakis, Varese and Ligeti
That'll teach 'em
>>60940345
FPTMIU
"Welcome to tumblr!"
>>60943084
What a fucking pants-around-ankles faggot.
Berio's Folk Songs are actually pretty cool
>>60943311
>using classical music for studying
/classical/ is in dire straits indeed
>>60941773
Hey are you the guy who like 2 years ago posted some of his uncles musical recordings? One was a song about something not coinciding and shit? I have it and I've been looking for that /mu/tant since, I really like that music
>>60938713
Nice meme opinion man it's ok
>>60943441
nope
>>60935069
The only difference appears to be notes that would share a stem are separated a bit. Nice idea but is it really that earth shattering?
>>60939644
DAAAAAAA DAAAAAAA DA-DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
>>60941973
Real answer is Mravinsky but ross/helix is good too
>>60942210
Carmack uses LISP? I've always found it sort of interesting but have no idea how I'd use it practically. Like PROLOG.
Clever stuff but far too high level for my taste.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8uPQLGYZDM
>unironically being this autistic
Jesus Christ in heaven.
>>60944047
Honestly, philosophically this was a very logical conclusion about the future of performance during the emergence of recording technology.
>>60944047
I wish Bernstein kicked his pretentious ass back in these days
>>60943800
is that the channel 4 logo?
>>60944047
My favourite bit about this is that he's talking almost completely out his ass about the hammerklavier
>>60944159
He probably fucked it at least.
>>60944203
>>60944159
Hey guys, I don't know who this fella is but do you mind expanding upon your conclusions about him being a pretentious person? I'm not very familiar with what he has spoken about in that video (i.e. not familiar at all) and so I don't understand what the fallacies are.
>>60944185
Yeah that's what the record sleeve reminded me of.
How would you guys rank Schnittke's symphonies?
so, I am listening to Bartok's quartets for the first time. wow, amazing. who else should I check out for string quartets?
>>60941973
Mravinsky, Markevitch, Monteux, Mengelberg.
>>60944640
Mozart.
>>60944897
The four Ms.
>>60937923
That's why you write your manuscript on paper before copying it into Sibelius / Finale. I'm studying composition at college with a lot of professional composers, and that's what nearly everybody does.
That said if you're using a lot of extended techniques or you want your scores to have a really distinctive look, really nothing beats hand engraving
>tfw 3000 words due tomorrow on a shitty topic I don't give a fuck about
>tfw would rather listen to Berio instead
Got a couple of interesting books out to read as well: a collection of Taruskin essays on the early music movement and one about 'Revolution and Religion' in the music of Liszt. Pity I probably won't have time to read them for a while.
>>60944047
>implying Gould isn't hilarious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkdPkrCXMNA
>>60945221
I mean autistic, the "normal" high functioning kind, doesn't imply the person is dumber or less lucid. It's just that he has an incredibly narrow viewpoint, traditional tonal harmony, and looks at every aspect of every kind of music through that very narrow angle.
>>60945418
>traditional tonal harmony
He loved Schoenberg though.
>>60945441
Yes but he analyzed and presumably "enjoyed" Schoenberg in strict relation to traditional tonal harmony. That is to say he spent most of his time thinking about all the ways in which Schoenberg was different than other composers who used more traditional tonal harmony instead of thinking about all the ways in which Schoenberg is Schoenberg. This is a shame since Schoenberg was not a reactionary composer.
![1428224433754[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WE1YsLV.jpg "1428224433754[2].jpg")
how a Mass composed by Wagner would sound like?
>>60945550
Formalist, boring, too long, and forgettable.
>>60945578
like secs with ur mom lol
>>60945523
Fair enough.
>>60944227
Lurk (and read) more
In the download list that is usually posted in the OP, what should I be downloading if I'm looking for more emotional/sad pieces?
>>60946072
anything by Schubert for piano
>>60933758
That's awful. Why do literally none of the notes share a "tail"?
>>60946105
This.
Schubert the best for Dat melancholy feel ;~;
>>60946105
Piano solo?
>>60946212
piano sonata 16, 19 - 21 (d845, d958 - 960)
string quartet 13, 14, string quintet
piano trios
winterreise
etc.
lots work.
>>60946212
>>60946277
arpeggione sonata
symphony 4, 8, 9
der erlkonig
schwanengesang
improptus
>>60946332
>>60946277
>>60946105
Was Schubert really that emotional?
>>60946505
Incredibly so?
There's an old joke that goes the only thing sadder than Schubert in minor is Schubert in major
>>60946505
if you never danced on Schubert piano sonatas, alone, on midnight of new year's eve, in your bedroom/basement, sobbing and repressing tears..
1-you don't know what "emotional" means
2-you don't belong to /classical/
>>60933758
Professional Cellist here with intermediate violin skills. That looks like shit and if I were handed that piece to read and play, it would end up crumpled into a ball and back in its arranger's hand in five seconds. I'm not going to explain myself in detail because you should know why this is not good practice.
>>60946863
>anon take this and play
>y-yes
>"yes" what, scum?
>y-yes s-sir
>good, and later, if you swallow, I might give you a fist of lentils and beans for dinner, peasant
>>60946505
He's often described as a very introverted composer.
Not to say that he couldn't do 'happy' very well when it suited him though. His best lied, Der Hirt auf dem Felsen, is quite generally a jolly old thing.
>>60946571
>Schubert in minor is Schubert in major
I don't understand that? Major is more happy, isn't it? Or is the juoke supposed to intend "Schubert major emotional"?
>>60947086
>Or is the juoke supposed to intend "Schubert major emotional"?
No. Schubert is just that nuanced of a composer. Worth investing much time into. Come, and initiate yourself into the apostleship, for all who recognize the prophet as he truly was.
>>60947086
Listen to Das wirtshaus and die Nebensonnen
>>60947506
The joke is that major keys are generally seen to be sadder than minor keys, but Schubert achieves his most somber and devastating music in major keys
>>60947625
>sadder
Happier I mean. Christ I need a nap
