alternate quote:

"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, No one's going to bump the thread. They're not."
- Dr. Seuss

bump

Good idea for a general

THE /comp/ COMPOSITION CHALLENGE #3 METERS July 8st - July 15rd

Compose a short piece (around 1 to 2 minutes) with three distinct meters in any instrumentation. Treat these time signatures as meters, rather than just throwing in a different time signature for a bar or two for phrasing purposes. Consider making your meters distinct by considering whether the time signatures you choose are duple or triple; simple, compound or complex/irregular.
BONUS CHALLENGE: Make at least one section of your piece polyrhythmic/polymetric

Post WIPs, talk about things to consider when changing meters, post pieces that have strong metric changes, post polyrhythmic pieces.

>>66407140

Glad I could help! ideas are the currency of composition

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>tfw thought you had a Yamaha G1
>opened up the lid and turned out to be a Yamaha G1JPE instead
>tfw made in indonesia and not glorious japan

Anyway here's a phone recording of an improvisation of the piano with it's lid up, well it still sounds like shit but at least it's tastier shit.

>>66415165

opps forgot link

https://clyp.it/qeinvy25

>>66413734
I didn't have much time to put into this, so it's kind of a sloppy mix and performance. It's a few classical guitar parts with some midi strings underneath. Starts in 3/4, goes to a 2 over 3 polyrhythm, and ends in 5/4

https://clyp.it/wzzcfmlq

>>66415184
Fucking nice dude, awesome playing. Makes me wish I never gave up piano. I stopped lessons at 13, and now after a decade I can only muster up baby-tier improvs

https://clyp.it/1z0fwfnf
>Boston baby grand recorded with a single sm57

>>66415769

>baby grand

One of my dreams is to own a nice baby grand, but by the time I actually have enough money for that, I would probably be too busy to play piano. Then at the side of the piano would be a nice semi-hollow/hollow electric guitar.. along with a JC120..
Nice playing too!

nigger

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>>66416706
keep it /comp/ related!

>>66416781
nigger!

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NIGGAAAAA

NIGGA
NIGGA
NIGGA
NIGGZ WHERE YOU AT

>>66412937
I made it for a game, but I might adjust the second part later to have some more variation
https://clyp.it/u1khbeua

>>66417908
nigger please

Stream dude here.

Due to a long work schedule and the other dude who's sharing a stream, I have elected to move my stream (originally this Sunday) to next week

Sorry for the change of plans

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any other isomorph transformation (that makes sense musically) exists besides 90° rotations and extensions of notes?

>>66418401
>>66418837
niggerr - i won't even read your posts.

>>66417908
it's alright

>>66418984
>>66418162
>>66417136
What?

>>66418837
how does 90 degree rotation even work

In jazz, how do you play outside the key? I don't know how to describe it but I have heard many jazz musicians play runs and notes outside of the diatonic key, yet it doesn't sound necessarily dissonant.

Do you create a scale based on the chord tensions? Chord scale theory???

>>66419856
You can just use passing chromatic notes. #s and bs are totally legitimate tones to have in your chords as well. It's not hard to do in jazz. Playing modal then modulating to it's respective maj/min key sometimes works too (e.g. playing D Dorian, modulate to D maj)

>>66419876

What is #s and bs?

>>66419891
hashtags and bullshit

>>66419856
Chord scale theory is all about being inside. The best way to find out how jazz players play outside the key is to transcribe their solos.

But usually, it's one of a couple of things.
1. substitution. playing to the chord scale of a substitute chord even though the original chord is being played by the rhythm section. Function remains intact, sounds "out"
2. retardation / anticipation. playing over the chord scale of a chord from before (hard to not make this sound like a mistake, but I've heard it done well) or after (very effective) the current chord
3. superimposition. imposing complete other systems on top of what you've got. Most common is coltrane substitution.

Passing chromatic notes >>66419876 will not make you sound out

>>66419954

Your first point, so for example the comp guy is playing a V7, and I can use this scale based on iib7? Sounds cool I might try that later.

Second point is cool, but hard to implement correctly.

I can cheat a bit with chromatic notes but they usually just make me sound bluesy.

What's the third point about?

>>66420006
you missed my actual first point, where you should find solos where this is happening and then learn how to play the notes they are playing. It's the only way you'll learn how to play as well as the people you admire

second point is easy to implement. let's say you're playing beatrice, halfway through the F chord you start playing using the Gb's chord scale. Sounds good

Google coltrane substitution

>>66420049

Play over the original chord with a substitute chord scale, isn't that what you meant?

Just commenting to say this thread is a really neat idea, and that I envy you guys for being able to compose using theories and whatnot. Dumb multi-instrumentalist here, I literally just jam out until something sounds good to me, I hardly know any music theory outside of tempo related shit.

(is it more fun before you know music theory, or is it way better after? I don't want to learn it if it's going to make me less inspired since it'd be "by the numbers" if that makes any sense)

>>66420615
>is it more fun before you know music theory, or is it way better after?
Actually playing the music is no more/less enjoyable in my opinion, but writing the music, and listening to music, is so satisfying when you really understand what you're doing with it

>>66419630
melody becomes short chord progression

>>66421245
But how do you make the rhythm -> pitch conversion. More to the point, what's the point? It just seems like the translation i very unmusical

>>66420615

You can jam stuff out that sounds good, thousands of rock band has done that. I won't say music theory might help you get further, because in all reality it's really just guidelines and not "learn this and your music writing would be 248% improved", but what I can tell you is that your communication skills to other musicians would improve, and you would actually understand what you are playing or writing.

nigger

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How do I go from composing periods like pic related to larger forms, like ternary?

https://clyp.it/l2wbj0xn

>>66423970
Decide how you want to develop this theme into a full section. You could stay away from development for the moment and extend this into a double period, maybe with a transitional section afterwards. You could introduce a related but contrasting period, together that could make one section. You could freely develop your theme and lead to another section, you could consider it as a bridge, but the bridge itself can be long (16 bars) and just use and develop the material you already have.

Then depending on how you work you can write a transitional section and bring us to a second theme, or write a second theme and build transitional material between them. Or no transitional material, just hop right to the next section.

>>66425253
Should I use contrasting motifs in the contrasting period, or variations on motifs from the first one? And how do I construct transitions?

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https://clyp.it/i5knbnpu

switched from musescore to a pirated sibelius, pretty hard to get used to the interface honestly, but the sound is a lot better.

the reason i wanted to try sibelius was the live tempo thing, but so far it seems really buggy, or maybe there's something i'm completely missing. I wish you could just tweak the tempo graph by sliding up and down the speeds instead of having to tap, especially when sibelius just decides to play ahead of your taps anyway.

anyway, I made this piece and i'm trying to think of ways to add a bit more colour to the end

>>66425300
I would say if you're doing two distinct periods in one section, they should audibly different, but stylistically similar. So the overall effect of the two periods is something like Ante-Antecedent Ante-Consequent Conse-Antecedent Conse-Consequent, if that makes any sense at all.

If you want to do variations of what you already have, go for that two, but I've found in studying scores that usually the form of these developments is less formally strict, so don't feel like you need to make a strict period.

Transitions fulfill a function, get you from here to here. That's why I recommend (unless you have an awesome idea for a transition) to write your section B first. Then you can make judgement calls like "Section A is in F and section B is in C, I need to lead into a modulation at some point", "Section A is quite active and happy, and section B is very muted and quiet. I can either gradually lead into a decresc OR lead into a big cresc and climax so that when Section B comes in there's a big contrast". Usually transitions tend to be developmental, taking material from before, but sometimes they are totally not.

>>66425636
Thanks for the help anon

>>66425432
really dig you piece. I really really hate bar 10 though. the two most dissonant intervals in a row in a low-ish register and I'm not sure what the Gis accomplishing. I really like your piece and if you like that sound totally go for it, but I think you should consider maybe if that's the best place for such a heavy dissonance.

Also Sibelius allows you to notate complicated passages with relative ease. You can basically notate anything in Sibelius fairly easily. If you want to get your pieces sounding better, you should really learn how to use a fully fledged DAW

>>66425432
Really nice. It ends kinda abruptly though. You could try to make the last chord longer and with some more notes the seventh or ninth. That would add color.

>>66412937
I tried to go out of my comfort zone and make an orchestral piece:
https://clyp.it/djrtbfxp

pmub

>>66423970
>>66425253
>>66425300
>>66425432
>>66425636
>>66425697
>>66425741
>>66425772
>>66426069
>>66427322

step your game up you fucking niggers

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For tomorrow's stream, I'd like to collect some more examples of modern pieces with modal tonality.
As I'm not too familiar with popular music, maybe you guys can come up with some pieces. I know some Michael Jackson songs are in Dorian Mode, but that's about it.

What other pieces do you know?

>>66428183
Scarborough fair is dorian iirc.

"We work the black seam" is modal too.

Greensleeves...?

>>66428183
off the top of my head, the majority of blues tunes. Chicago by Sufjan Stevens is mixo. Norwegian wood is mixo and dorian. Simpson's theme is a non-standard mode, lydian dominant or whatever you call that thing. Quite a few rap tunes are phrygian, but I can't think of an example right now. sforzando farts are in locrian :DDDD

>>66428183
not sure if it's popular music but i know a few from games etc.

ionian (95% of happy songs)

dorian:
elder scrolls theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJD-Ufi1jGk

phrygian:
lotr theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J93fc--VsaI
theme starts at around 0:40

Lydian:
lost woods - zelda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-I_Y9agnUc

mixolydian:
epona's song - zelda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBU2IJ1Mnjw

aeolian (95% of sad songs)

locrian:
fuck locrian anyway

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bump (not implying /comp/ is a little dead)

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>print 2 empty staffs

>grab a can of silly string

>hold your hand over your eyes and spray a single line of silly string on the top staff

>fold the bottom staff onto the top staff

>post results

(if you have no silly string off hand use a sharpie)

>>66430846
w-what?

>>66428183
Since another person gave video game examples, this is prety much textbook dorian. Like exemplary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzQkhH6qUcQ

>>66429581
Uh, that's not dorian, I mean there are a few points where it touches #6 harmonically but natural 6 features pretty prominently in the melody.

Actually, I don't know how to say this but none of your examples are great examples. In the LotR theme you can hear b2 in the harmony at 0:40, but at 0:46 you can hear a bit of a countermelody starting on natural 2, and the melody itself never touches 2 at that point, since it's repeated a halfstep down at 0:59 (film scores in general are too lush and chromatic to be good examples of a particular mode).

LoZ has a similar problem, since Koji Kondo really loves his modal changes and ambiguous tonalities. Lost Woods is pretty unclear as to whether it's going I-V-I-V in F Lydian or IV-I-IV-I in C Major, but the second section (which has a chord progression Dmin-G7-C-Amin) really makes it feel more like C Major to me. Just that it's ambiguous makes it a poor example, though.

And Epona's Song is pretty unambiguously non-modal Major.

>>66431600
Kondo's music often reminds me of Debussy.

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>>66430888
you heard me bitch.

do it.

>>66432325

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>>66425432
https://clyp.it/i5frzadi

well, this was kind of what i was hoping to do with just two voices, but i guess it works like this. I tried a few patterns to keep the 2 voice theme going but it didn't really work out.

not even sure why i'm posting "progress" now, since i really only added about 6 notes, but this thread is awfully slow anyway.

>>66425741
i'm not sure what to say about bar 10, but i like it how it is.
Also, is there any DAW you recommend? Can i export something from sibelius into a daw or will i have to put in every note?

>>66434179
draw lines on a piece of paper?

>>66428183
Modal jazz/a majority of blues songs

I believe the organ solo of The Door's "Light My Fire" is in Dorian.

Miles Davis' "Solea" (I think he originally recorded it) is in Phrygian.

The Simpson's theme song uses Lydian

Lorde's "Royals" is mainly in D Mixolydian

Locrian - A lot of hard rock/metal songs, like "Enter Sandman". It sounds evil. Bjork also used a Locrian bass line in "Army of Me".

>>66435310
Logic or Cubase probably, if you like the work flow of traditional composition. Pro Tools is hard to use for MIDI, FL and Ableton don't really have a great workflow for traditional composition in my opinion (not too experienced with those, but I do know some people do use it for traditional composition). And you can export midi in sibelius and import it into any DAW, and edit what you've got from there

>>66435438
simpsons theme uses the Acoustic scale, which is very close to Lydian, but has a flat 7. It goes by the name Lydian Domant scale, but it's not the original gregorian lydian scale.

Good call on Enter Sandman, the main riff would be locrian, if you go by the chord-scale system, but then again, in the singing voice, the regular 2nd and 5th degree are used, which makes it just regular natural minor.
You're onto something about metal songs and Locrian passages though, the tritone makes stuff sound evil.

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>>66419856
Pitch axis mate.

>>66430846
>tfw did some scribble scores and actually had pic related published (as part of a collection of graphic scores) and later performed in a big concert.
>sounds like shit, nothing like the music I want to write
a-at least I'm a published composer now r-right guys?

>>66436856
How would you even play that? Is it entirely up to the performer?

>>66436953
Here's my performance notes:

The score can be interpreted by a violinist, or perhaps any instrument, by looking at the character of the lines. The lines and smudges are placed on the stave to give an apporximate pitch, and the character will define the actual playing of each of the notes. Bold dark notes can be played as such, Forte and marcato, while light, whispy smudges can be played sul ponticello and Piano. There is of course an infinite number of different characteristics between these two extremes, and the perfomer is welcome to pretty much do as they please, have some fun, and create some chaos. All tempo and metric changes are completely up to the performer, and the piece can be played at any speed desired.

And here's a performance:
http://sounz.org.nz/resources/show/1271
I'm not really very happy with it, but what can you expect from scribbles on a page!

>>66437222
This is preety nice, desu

And it's published wih a high-quality filmed performance

>>66437436
yeah SOUNZ are great, they're out national music library specializing in NZ music. They also do a lot of great video coverage of NZ classical pieces.

>Re-watching the performance
Look ma! I'm Ferneyhough lol
Pretty cool performance though, she really did a great job, and I suppose its kind grown on me

Hey /comp/ I have a question on improvisation

I'm more of a guitarist than a pianist, but I'm really trying to learn jazz piano. I bought a cheap MIDI keyboard (it doesn't support dynamics), watched a few YouTube videos and improvised this

https://clyp.it/o2focyvj

Is this a good start towards jazz improvisation? Looking through the pasta, I see some resource on jazz harmony; would that improve my playing?

Thank you!

>>66435082

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bu - m - p
bu - m - p

>>66426069
Nobody with some feedback for me?

Bu-mp

>>66438089
your biggest problem is your sense of rhythm.
You do have an over reliance on patterns, scales, pentatonics, etc, but whatever. Work on getting your rhythm less wishy washy

>>66442862
thank you senpai

>tfw you get your composition mixed by someone else
I know I should get better but it's a good feel

>>66441591
There's one instrument that is so high pitched I can't make out what it is. I like your harmonization and development, but the orchestration needs work. Check the pasta for help

>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration

>>66446089
Thanks. I'll work on it.

>>66412937
Hey guys. I have a question. I'm new to orchestration and shit so bear with me.
How many notes is it possible for a string section to play at a time? What I mean is sometimes when you're on a keyboard with a full string patch, you play a lot of big blocked chords, and sometimes I wonder if that can be replicated with an orchestra. I know there are first violins and second violins, but for example, cellos usually almost always have single note lines right? Same with double basses/violas! So does that mean that the most notes a String Ensemble can play at one time is 5?

Do pieces for string ensemble ( i mean larger than string quartets/quintets ) always have 1st violins, 2nd violins, violas, cellos and basses?
Why especially this division?

>>66444541
Nice anon

>>66446589
Damn we posted pretty close to each other anon

>>66446589
>>66446582
Stringensemblemind

>>66446582

All these instruments can played two notes at the same time without too much difficulty, it isn't uncommun for violins and violas

>>66446589
I'd say it mirrors a SATB choir with

S - Violin 1
A - Violin 2
T - Viola
B - cello
SubBass - Double bass (doubling the bass line one octave down to give you that organ like deep and full bass sound)

>>66446648
I see thanks anon
How does the double bass not playing the bassline sound?

>>66446725
same as if I were to play the organ pedal without a 16', the lower section sounds less full and rich. Then again, there are times, when that's exactly what you want.

as a rule of thumb, the louder and higher the upper voices go, the more you can and should include the contrabass section.

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>>66446770
dang, I'm having another Yoda moment.

>>66446793
Thanks yodanon

>>66446589
The sections can be splitted when needed too
So actually a string ensemble can play a lot of notes simultaneously

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Bumping with a jazz guitar improvisation, I screwed up some parts again sigh..

https://clyp.it/bh2kcxip

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>>66446582
>>66446589
5 is the minimum notes you can play.

each section can be split in "divisi" where they can play up to 4 different notes (maybe more if you can score it clearly), and each instrument can play double stops.

So if your score was clear enough, you could potentially have a string section playing up to 40 different notes.

Its also not uncommon to have each violin section split into 2 staves if you're going to be doing a lot of divisi writing. That way its much clearer to read.

In the symphony I'm working on there's a section with lots of crunchy string chords that require violins to be playing in 4 part divisi, but I'm going to have each section in 2 staves, so only 2 parts on each stave, and its mostly chords so should be very clear.

pic related: violin sections in 2 staves.

>>66448605
thanks anon

>>66447784
Still pretty nice anon

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Bumptok

Stream in less than one hour.

20 mins to go.

>>66451506
you will post the stream link?

>>66451888
Sure, just gimme a sec to finish my Ramen and grab another beer.

It's boring, it's bad but it's a start
I can't into musescore after years of using guitar pro so i just use a daw

https://clyp.it/hb21xtbt

https://youtu.be/3Dobrh5oo4Q

Here's a composition I finished and recorded about 3 months ago and felt like sharing, but it's now all mixed.
Score is a bit big, but if anyone is interested I guess I could post it
https://soundcloud.com/benbartlett/umami

>>66452041
damn, I missed the start so I'm just going to check it out after it's all done, but thanks for doing this.

>>66452041
nice stream, thanks for doing this. are you saving the clips for later use? Also, did you make more pdf's than this one? the pdf seems really well made

also i was actually hoping it would be a twitch stream. I just registered a twtich account to ask questions. i don't like to log in to youtube

>>66452610
no probs. Here's the pdf file from the presentation

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pkuf3b8oc3l582a/modal.pdf?dl=0

Underlines in the text have URLs.

Hopefully someone can do a followup on modal jazz.

>>66452958
I'll just keep the video clip. I don't have any more PDFs, I made this one specifically for the stream.

The clip is still processing, the url should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lX9HbxuyQM

Feel free to ask questions here.

I mostly took it as an excuse to play around with that notation software to see what it can do.

>>66453017
wrong pdf link,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/876yc09vb3z3yya/modal%20stream.pdf?dl=0

>>66453017
you said something about locrian not having some cadence because something was missing? can you explain? it was almost the start of the stream. (page 3)

also i gotta admit i smiled when i could hear you taking swigs of your beer while playing the gregorian scales

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>>66453087
locrian scale has a dimished 5th step, thus the root chord is not a stable minor or major chord with a perfect fifth, but will always sound wonky.
It has only been added for completeness' sake in theory books, but it doesn't work as a scale / mode that can be maintained through an entire piece. It will always sound like the dominant of some other key that's gonna resolve any moment.

cheers, gotta love franconian beer.

>>66453176
ah ye, i listened to the "army of me" because it was posted here and it really felt like it was about to "move to something" all the time, but didn't. just very unsettling all in all. i guess that explains it