I did extensive research on Fela for one of my uni finals, he had like 300 wives and pretty much viewed them as objects but he was also one of the greatest musicians to ever live and fought for many other rights so its cool

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who cares, just dance, that's what Kuti would've wanted you to do
LIVE YOUR LIFE OFF THE WALL

>>65146834
I don't doubt Fela Kuti's musical prowess; I'm just curious about who he was as a person. What evidence is there that he viewed he objectified his wives? Do you have any sources to which you could refer me?

From what I've read about him, Fela seemed to have embraced his conception of African culture to an extreme degree, which apparently included a low opinion of "women, formal education, and AIDS", as one article put it. I've yet to find much substantiation for his particular characterization, however, hence my skepticism.

>>65146528
>Fela Kuti, an alpha-as-fuck, Nigerian, Afrobeat/jazz/funk legend and general god of music... is sexist

I'm genuinely baffled by anyone remotely giving a shit about this.

>>65147012
Quit being such a leftist cuck, he hated Paul McCartney at first bc he believed he was trying to steal afrobeat, the dude was borderline insane as most geniuses are just enjoy his fucking music. Listen to Na Poi if you don't believe me, I also think shakara is calling women dumb or some shit

>>65147148
>The sole characteristic of musicians which deserves any consideration is strictly their music and the quality thereof.
>The personal lives, history, and perspective of an artist is irrelevant to their work.
I prefer to treat and appreciate musicians as talented and complex human beings rather than as merely the source of their music.

And also:
>worshipping alphas

>>65147239
>leftist cuck
I'd rather not discuss politics here, and not only because traitorous class cuckolds like you are wholly incompetent and outclassed in such discussions, so please save your whining for /pol/ (or whichever hugbox you prefer for venting) and keep it off /mu/.

As far as I'm aware, "Shakara" was about braggadocio and its relationship to domestic violence. In particular, the song ridiculed such boastful and arrogant behavior in an attempt at humiliating those who practiced it.

The controversial songs regarding women by Fela Kuti were "Lady" and "Mattress", both of which were suggestive of depicting women as inferior or subordinate to men. Some of his statements seem to corroborate with this view, which is the basis upon which the charge of him being a sexist rests. I'm not aware of "Shakara" being among the songs generally considered to have such a controversial view about women.

>>65147475
Just fuck off to reddit. Or better yet, kill yourself.

>>65147617
I don't go to reddit, so find another bogeyman to use in your baseless accusations.

If you want me dead so bad, feel free to come find me. Otherwise, kindly shut the fuck up and keep your tough talk for the playground.

>>65147475
Cuck

>>65147475
> I prefer to treat musicians as complex human beings

Just remember that this entails treating concepts like 'sexism' as complex, relative and historically conditioned.

Otherwise we're just people with no culture, angry at the dead.

>>65148371
What do you mean, exactly?

>>65147475
Idk anything about Fela's life, but judging the lives of the death seems rather pointless to me.

Just skimming in wp, found that his mother was a feminist activist.

>>65148488
Are you seriously saying that historically important people are pointless to judge simply because they are no longer alive?

Yes, Fela Kuti's mother was a prominent feminist activist with radical leftist connections, but the allegation is that Kuti grew sexist in his later life, particularly after he embraced what he believed to be African culture.

>>65148539
Why are you so psuedo-intellectual?

>>65147617
Are you actually implying that reddit is a liberal paradise?

>>65147239
>he hated Paul McCartney at first bc he believed he was trying to steal afrobeat
man he must have despised David Byrne

>>65148589
Are you referring to his choice of words? I think pretentious might be the more appropriate buzz word.

>>65148448
Just that the 'sexism' of here and now is different from the 'sexism' of the past, and elsewhere.

We're in agreement, I think. Don't mind me. I'm only saying that 'sexist' behaviour in the west, today, and to us, is a clear contravention of a dominant moral idea. The possible reasons for behaviour now considered 'sexist', in the past and in other cultures, are infinite.

But I think I'm telling you stuff you are perfectly aware of.

>>65148589
Why do you think that I'm a pseudo-intellectual? More importantly, why is that relevant whatsoever to the topic of this thread?

>>65148604
Although reddit does have a significant base of social liberals and progressives, I'd like to point out that radical leftists are not liberals. Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism and radical leftists are first and foremost anticapitalist. Radical leftists are generally not supportive of liberals and many are openly hostile to them. Even if reddit was a "liberal paradise", it would be grossly ignorant to conclude that a radical leftist (such as myself) would therefore be drawn to such a community.

>>65148634
How is my diction pretentious?

>>65148652
Oh alright, no problem. Just to clarify, I'm not interested in Kuti's alleged sexism in order to pass any sort of moral judgment on him or anything of the sort. I'm simply curious because it's a frequent charge I've encountered, it's apparently relevant to some of his songs, and I would like to know more about Kuti's ideological views.

>>65148687
So are you gay, a woman, or a numale feminist

>>65146528
how do you not see him as a sexist he had his own personal harem which he made dance and sing at his shows lol. Also isn't the song Lady just making fun of African feminists? He wasnt just a sexist he was an asshole in general. He treated his band like shit from what i read

>>65148652
unty?

>>65148687
>How is my diction pretentious?
I mean the fact that you just used the word diction is kinda pretentious. But it's really not, it's just more accurate that pseudo intellectual, which means even less of nothing.

>>65148701
If you're just going to be a presumptuous manchild, take it to >>>/pol/ where you'll fit right in. In case you weren't aware, this is /mu/. My identity is not relevant to music.

>>65148748
Polygyny is not inherently sexist, in my opinion, and I don't see how the fact that his numerous wives danced and sang during his shows is evidence of sexism. I was under the impression that "Lady" was ridiculing European women and the trend (at the time) of African women trying to behave like European women. Perhaps it was about African feminists, but I haven't read that interpretation before.

>>65148750
Sorry, I don't know what that means.

>>65148748
When you're pushing back against a (perceived or real) oppressive culture, it is not commonly seen that you pick and choose which parts to reject. The discourse of women's liberation in the west was and sadly, is, steeped in liberal capitalist culture, and was rejected along with the rest.

>>65148797
Add a few 'probablies' to that, since I had barely heard of the guy before this thread.

i don't know why you're trying so hard to prove him innocent when all the evidence suggests otherwise but here's something i fiund from a quick google


>In songs such as 'Lady' and 'Mattress' the impression he gave was that women were inferior. 'I'm not saying that women should not be political leaders,' he said. 'Women can do what they want - but once she's married in Africa she can't do anything against her husband's will. If a woman doesn't like a man she should find another - that's why polygamy is so fantastic ... An African man should not do anything called housework or cooking ...' But, Fela, cooking can be fun, I persisted. 'I can cook, I had to as a student in London. But if I have a party and do cooking, people call me a 'Less Man'. I don't see why I should go against the cultural values of my people.'

>So what is the gay scene like in Lagos? 'I've seen a few boys behave like sissies, you know. I found they had gone to England and been corrupted. If you are gay in Africa no one must know about it - they will stone you to death, man.'


so basically you're saying that he's not sexists he's just honouring his culture (which is sexist)?

>>65149000
Based t b h.

>>65149000
I think calling a culture sexist for not adhering to western notions of sexism is a fairly colonialist notion. It strikes me as the new white man's burden. Why should we interfere with these cultures? We've already done enough of that. This argument could go back and forth forever.

>>65149000
I'm not trying to prove him innocent. I'm just genuinely unaware of the evidence proving that he was sexist and I'm skeptical of the charge, since my attempts at finding evidence did not provide satisfactory proof.

I'm not sure of those statements themselves ought to necessarily qualify him as a sexist without better understanding the underlying rationale behind those views he held. He may simply support the gender roles traditional to African culture, while simultaneously viewing women as otherwise equal to men. It's a position I've encountered before among more conservative and traditionalist people and although many of them hold sexist views, I wouldn't consider them all sexist simply because they support gender roles.

Is his culture sexist? I don't know. I want to know if Fela Kuti was himself a sexist, though, and what evidence there is for that, hence this thread.

>>65146528
We're all sexist.

>>65149094
I wouldn't consider myself sexist.

>>65146528
I don't know if you've ever lived in Africa, but I spent almost 3 years in Burkina Faso, which isn't Nigeria, but it has some cultural similarities in places.

"Big men" - by that, meaning successful, wealthy, or famous men - have A LOT of women in their lives. If they can finance those women's needs and lifestyles, those women will more than gladly have that man's children.

That's how it works. Even though Islam technically limits men to 4 wives at a time, I knew guys who "rotated" through them and had upward of 20 at any given time.

Outsiders may find this galling, unappealing, whatever. But here's the thing - those women would be absolutely FURIOUS if you somehow forbade them from being with their "big men."

>>65149000
>so basically you're saying that he's not sexists he's just honouring his culture (which is sexist)
Welcome to Germany

>>65149000
In what way do his views differ from the accepted norm that Christianity dictates?
If you wanna call all Christians sexist then I guess that's an ok argument? But I doubt you want to do that bc it's a stupid thing to say
He said he cooks, but not at parties
He said sissies(yes it's a slur but it's better than fag so he's obviously aware) get stoned, never said he stoned them

>>65146528
Nah man he totally does what he preaches.Also today rappers are not sexist too and black people are not sexist in general of course.

>>65149158
why is it a stupid thing to say that people who believe that women should stay at home and be housewives are sexist?

>>65149205
There's thousands of rappers my guy, and black people are no more sexist than white people

>>65149291
He said a man shouldn't do it, he never said that he doesn't do it
Nothing he said in that greentext was sexist, maybe a bit backwards but not sexist
"women can do what they want" is already showing that he acknowledges bodily autonomy to a higher degree than a lot of Westerners
The marriage thing is unfortunately a result of the colonial influence that's left over, abrahamic religions are rather oppressive towards women but you need to understand that sexism is a subjective thing
There's culture difference that can't be understood unless you actually grow up in the environment

one his sons said he killed his mum by beating her everyday, so you tell me

>>65146528
Who fucking cares

>>65149158

>le ebil christians


*tips*

>>65149369
Fela's mother was killed by the Nigerian military when they stormed the Kalakuta Republic commune in response to Fela's "Zombie" song and the riots it caused. I don't know where you heard that wild tale, but that contradicts the accepted account of Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti's death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funmilayo_Ransome-Kuti#Death

>>65149379
I do, hence why I created this thread. Go shitpost elsewhere.

>>65149431
no, I mean fela killed the mother of one of his sons

>>65149445
Do you have any source for this?

>>65149346
>sexism is a subjective thing

so it's subjective if gender roles are sexist... what about things like women aren't allowed to drive, vote, leave the house alone etc. Are those also subjective?

>>65149461
pretty sure it's in the finding fela documentary

i think femi or seun says so during an interview

>>65149369
Source? Citations?
>>65149492
Gender roles are stupid and oppressive yes, but using sexism as a buzzword for anything that doesn't fit with Western views of equality doesn't actually make sense
So therefore sexism is subject

>>65149296
Of course they are not!Thats what I was saying mang!!And yes white people are truly the devil and the most sexist and evil people and also stupid!

>>65149578
see >>65149494

he said in multiple occasions that it's ok for men to beat their women. he fucked 500 women per year too. so yeah, i think he might be a bit sexist. just a bit

>>65149405
I'm not calling them evil but you can't deny that being sexually repressed until marriage and being violently against homosexuality are traits present in Christianity and other abrahamic religions

>>65149059
>liberals will literally defend sexism when blacks do it.

>>65149605
Advocating domestic abuse is a sexist act, I'll give you that one but having sex isn't. If you'd said he raped the women then it would have put it into a different light(not that rape is inherently sexist bc it's impossible for it to be so)

there is no way a man who has a literal harem is not a sexist

>>65149606
>being violently against homosexuality are traits present in Christianity
I can deny that because you're thinking of Islam

>>65149626
So again, strict religious families practice sexism on a daily basis but that's ok?
Grow up

He fucked hundreds of women and never used a condom, he was opposed to them. He never got tested even when he started showing symptoms of AIDS. Probably spread it to a bunch of people

>>65149654
The fuck are you talking about?
Nice Strawman.

>>65149639
Have you read the Bible? Do you think the anti-gay leanings of religious people appeared from thin air?
The Bible condemns men who lie with men and call it a sin, people get stoned to death for it
>>65149657
"he practiced unsafe sex so he's a sexist" nope

>>65149678
Other than having multiple wives, nothing he's doing is different from what strict Christian families do
There's no strawman here my guy

>>65149690
ok he wasn't a sexist he was just a massive cunt. But he was a cunt equally to men and women. Does that make you feel better about listening to his music?

>>65149690
>The Bible condemns men who lie with men and call it a sin, people get stoned to death for it
The Old Testament isn't Christianity

>>65149702
I never brought up religious families nor did I say it was ok if they were sexist, so it literally was a strawman.
But pretty sure strict Christians aren't polygamists, not do they say women can't do anything against their husbands will. These are traits of Islam.

>>65149731
For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

>>65149779
They're just traits of Islam at all

>>65149779
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

>>65149790
>They're just traits of Islam at all
Hope you weren't trying to say "They're not traits of Islam at all"
Because then we would have a problem.

>>65149883
They're not, I'm cooking so I'm not 100% concentrating rn
Check the other posts

>>65149903
A Muslim minor girl's father or guardian needs her consent when arranging a marriage for her.
A marriage is a contract that requires the man to pay, or promise to pay some of the wedding and provisions the wife needs. This is known as the dowry.
A Muslim man may be married to up to four women at a time, although the Qur'an has emphasized that this is a permission, and not a rule.

A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits. The concept being that Islam puts the responsibility of earning and spending on the family on the male.

Not to mention women aren't allowed to go outside by themselves wear what they want, drive, or learn to read in many Islamic communities

all scholars of Sharia, or Islamic law, interpret homosexual activity as a punishable offence as well as a sin.
Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" -
Execution, flogging, and toppling a wall on homosexuals come from the reliable hadith and later legal rulings in Islam. They sit at its core. Execution and flogging may also come from the Quran itself.

Talk about "violently opposing homosexulity"

>Liberals will literally defend Islam while bashing Christianity for things they aren't even half as bad for
Literal insanity, this is Obama's world.
Trump 2016

Guys, I know it's summer and you're all coming from Tumblr, but this is a music board, ok? Ask this shit on Yahoo Answers.

>>65150102
Do you have any other bogeymen to accuse other anons of being in order to cope with the fact that they might disagree with your ridiculous and irrational beliefs? How about reddit? Are we "SJWs", too? Do we hail from FunnyJunk and Newgrounds, too, or are those too old of references for you?

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fuck it, this thread is just too much fun, I think I'm gonna make it a daily meme with each day a different musician
the possibilities are endless

who gives a fuck about an artist personal life. This is why modern music sucks because everybody is too busy trying to find dirt on which artist doesnt' share their same beliefs
faggots like OP would have probably tried to get fela banned

kys op

>>65150430
I give a fuck because I'm not an incurious consumerist manchild who is only interested in the art and not the artist, in the work and not the worker.

All I asked was whether Fela Kuti was sexist and I have already explained why. I am not on some ideological crusade or whatever ridiculous fantasy your puerile mind has concocted to try and feebly comprehend my original post.

Stop shitting up /mu/ and stifling legitimate discussion. Fuck off.

>>65150718
>legitimate discussion
Are we being baited? I can't possibly perceive the fact that someone is unironically writing this shit.
This is a music board, an artist's beliefs connect with him, not his music.

>>65150771
/mu/ is a board for discussion about music and the musicians who produce it. Fela Kuti is a musician and his alleged sexism is relevant to understanding some of his music, so it is absolutely a legitimate topic for discussion.

Feel free to report the thread and waste the time of the moderators. Alternatively, perhaps you should read Rule #1 of /mu/:

>Discuss music, artists, and instruments here. All images should relate to the topic at hand.

https://www.4chan.org/rules#mu

>>65150718
yep this is bait.