Why did they have to fuck up an otherwise perfect finale, villain and eventual redemption with a villain motivation that makes no fucking sense? Even Twilight calls it out as being ridiculous.
All that was needed was to give Starlight a Babs Seed 2.0 scenario with a different outcome. Being ostracized and bullied for being a blank flank turned Babs into a bully herself. The same thing would've made perfect sense for Starlight's actions as well, but instead of turning into a bully to deal with it she developed a complex about not ponies, but the concept of cutie marks being at fault.
Instead of a traumatized and misguided villain we instead got a whiny brat who associated cutie marks with a childhood friend moving away.
>>25612935
>we got a whiny brat who associated cutie marks with a childhood friend moving away.Instead of a traumatized and misguided villain we instead got a whiny brat who associated cutie marks with a childhood friend moving away.
We also got a brand new Twilight student. Isn't this great?
>>25612993
TWILICORN IS RACIST. BRING BACK THE WINGS.
>>25612993
>>We also got a brand new Twilight student. Isn't this great?
I don't mind. I even welcome the change in the status quo if she indeed becomes Mane 7.
But her motivations for creating Our Town and wanting a society without Cutie Marks was just ridiculous and lacked any kind of seriousness or feels which would make her an empathetic villain, which makes her "redemption" a joke in itself.
>>25612993
>Trixie
>Sunset
>Moondancer
>StarLight
>Twilight
Now we just need one more unicorn to create the Twilights-6.
But by making it look like it was all in Starlight's head it makes her redemption easier to swallow morally as it shows she didn't have a leg to stand on with her argument.
Whiny brat being changed by a song and a hug is alot more credible than a traumatized broken villain.
>>25613049
Yet, if it were a different reason, it wouldn't fit with her original claim that cutie marks drove people apart because some were better than others.
"Got bullied" wouldn't work since it wouldn't be the fault of the cutie mark it would be the fault of the bully for being a horrible person.
>>25612935
>implying we saw what Starlight was telling we saw
Do you think she'd destroy all of Equestria just for revenge? No, she's too smart for that. She saw that the friendship of mane 6 is way too important for Equestria, so she had to come up with a blan B. Knowing how willing to "reform her" Twilight is, she came up with one.Being so apologetic and the complete 180° suddenly makes way too much sense.
>>25613094
The faux reasoning of blaming cutie marks instead of the bullies would still make more sense than the current "my friend got a specific cutie mark and moved away because of it and forgot about me" reasoning where she assumes she'd lose new friends if they got their cutie marks.
That's essentially a rehash of Apple Bloom's irrational fears earlier this season and I just don't see how she went from that to aspiring to create a society without cutie marks unless there was bullying involved as well.
The problem wasn't cutie marks. The problem wasn't even that Starlight lost a friend.
The problem was that Sunburst was probably forced to be Starlight's friend and be around her and never actually considered her a friend. Starlight still has yet to get over the primary reason for her denial and blaming cutie marks: she never actually had her one friend.
>>25612935
The concept of being traumatized by having your best friend abruptly leave and blaming the circumstances (cutie mark) for it is actually decent and understandable, as it's something quite a few kids will be able to see themselves in since it's a more or less common occurrence. We've probably all heard these stories of friends who move away and lose contact. It's a good theme for a show about friendship.
The problem is that they didn't allocate enough time for it to make it well-engaging like Moondancer's past (which has similar themes but was better executed). The way it is it leaves too many questions (doesn't she have parents to comfort and help her overcome the situation and similar), and doesn't show enough of her progression (if they had at least spent 30 seconds, preferably more, doing a quick montage of Starlight growing older while she narrates how she eventually grew up, studied magic a lot, and founded the village while keeping her trauma due to never socializing and/or seeing it confirmed all over the place (differences lead to sadness, confirmation bias plays in too) it would have been much better).
Semi-related, the redemption, while a bit better, shares similar problems. All the elements are there (Starlight sees the wasteland her actions cause, Twilight starts reasoning with her and showing her how unreasonable and illogical her conviction is and answers her questions in a way that makes her see that there is a different way she could live, all these things giving good reasons to convince her as she is a smart pony who can follow logical reasoning), but it goes over too fast. The wasteland scene could be a bit longer to really hammer it's point home, and the final dialogue also could do well with a bit more back-and-forth and arguments to both sides, with Twilight easily destroying hers to show her how unfounded her fears are.
The redemption was almost OK, but the backstory was simply not extensive enough.
I still like the finale a lot.
>>25613064
Ponies have stripper names
>>25613236
I still think that's a lot of extrapolation on one still of Sunburst's facial expression.
>>25612993
Would've perferred Nyx at this point desu.
>>25612993
>We also got a brand new Twilight student. Isn't this great?
Only if they expand on that and we get Trixie and Moondancer in class as well. Second best thing to the original plan of letting Trixie be Luna's disciple.
I think it might all have more to do with the big problem FiM twoparters have always had: rushed endings. They simply ran out of time to make her backstory be meaningful and has to rush it in time for another rushed montage song.
>>25613250
Yes, it's not very believable.... because it was a quickly made up story to get Twilight's sympathy and avoid punishment after realizing that her plan has unintended side effects. Now she's in perfect position to plan her revenge.Season VI: Return of the Glimmer.
>>25613449
>>25613194
Please.
>>25612935
>>25613250
Expanding a bit more because I ran out of space, you also have to remember that Starlight was a child. Children are easily impressible and can hold irrational beliefs that carry over to their adolescence and adulthood if not confronted. That's why I said we'd need more of her growing up, because if she was an orphan or had parents that didn't care, and lived somewhere where ponies tend to have more quarrels and fights (while children, i.e. blank flanks, get along just fine like they usually tend to do when left alone to play together), it's easily understandable that she'd see her observation that cutie marks drive ponies apart confirmed over and over again until they are firmly rooted in her brain, leading her to want to fix it, to which cause she relentlessly studies magic, helped by her talent probably also having to do with magic, similar to Twilight (also a good argument as to why she's so powerful), and finally goes to found her village.
What also annoys me is that there were in fact a few parts in the finale that could have been shortened without compromising the story. There are multiple scenes where the characters talk about something that seems totally improbable only for it to happen the next moment. Those could all, except maybe one short one to do it once, have been cut. The session of the friendship council could also have been shortened to just the part where they say that they can't simply let a powerful unicorn like her roam free without making sure she fully understands friendship because of the high risk of relapse. In theory, the song also isn't needed, but it's nice to have a song and it makes for a good ending since every season finale in a way that works as a series finale.
Haber did excellent work on the finale, but I wish he'd allocated more time to the backstory and redemption. I still rate it 8/10, but if those parts had been expanded upon to be more meaningful, it would easily get a 9/10.
>>25613194
>>25613449
I wouldn't get my hopes up. I do like that idea, but it doesn't seem like something they'd do. It worked with Discord in the S4 finale, but that's Discord, the Lord of Chaos. Starlight definitely seems like a pony who'd do that, but she also seemed fairly genuine when she accepted Twilight's offer and especially later in the castle.
I really hope they have some good ideas for Starlight's further development and it would definitely be fun to have her bring up equality from time to time, for example as "This seems exactly like what I always told you" moments, but I seriously doubt the staff is going to make a real betrayal. Especially since they already did with Discord, so it would actually feel a bit old.
>>25612935
>Even Twilight calls it out as being ridiculous.
That was the point when you were supposed to realise that Starlight is just crazy, not that the writers want you to think it's a justified reason for her being evil.
>>25612935
I think they really should had put Sunset Shimmer as StarLight childhood friend, it could explain how both Sunset and Starlight ended being big meanies, Sunset by being now an special unicorn needed to live to the expectation that everypony had for her, so she ended wanting more and more power, and Starlight with all her angst for losing her friend and stuff, it was such a waste oportunity.
>>25613049
I think that's the whole point. It was deliberately written that wayto show she was being a tard.
I mean if a villain does something wrong because they're misguided it means they've got the wrong idea and are acting out of stuPidity. The key word is MISGUIDED.
>>25612935
>with a villain motivation that makes no fucking sense
Maybe you just don't know what it's like to lose someone you've loved, OP. Maybe you've never loved anyone before.;_;
>>25613081
From a more show writer perspective, I think this is probably true. If she had a truly tragic backstory she might have even gone the route of "So what? At least no one will suffer like I did" when confronted with the wasteland future. If nothing else, she isn't likely to drop her goal after one failure if she had a truly ironclad reason
>>25613917
There's no real reason to
I think the staff prefers to keep EQG out of the show and adding Sunset would mean Twilight would either confirm or deny the connection based on whether she would or would not recognize her
>>25613250
>>25613583
so it's pretty much "not enough time" to fully flesh the story, which holds true to all finales other than the first
still, all in all my favorite one of the bunch
>>25615930
>I think the staff prefers to keep EQG out of the show
But they still put that kind of spoiler at the end of Friendship Games
>>25616098
it's been a one way thing for a while
also, both written by Haber
>>25616098
EqG referencing the show is not the show referencing EqG. It was a spoiler because the S5 finale was expected to air before EqG3.
>>25616003
>which holds true to all finales other than the first
I'd say the second and fourth one are pretty good in that regard, too.
Her reason for fucking up the time line was that Twilight and her friends fucked up her town (Which she probably worked hard for years to build, assuming all the ponies there arrives on their own)
Her childhood friends only was the reason for building the town in the first place, not the time line fuckery.
But we all know you people are to stupid to listen most do the time.
>>25612935
>no human being would stack books like this
>>25616865
What exactly are you trying to say?
>>25616611
You know, if it was just about the town, how about.. I dunno.. going back in time to stop the Mane Six from getting to her town instead?
>>25616611
Her event caused her to fear how differences could set others apart. She wanted to shield others from that sort of pain, having experienced it herself, and eventually came up with a plan to bring about what she thought would be ideal.
>>25616967
Because she didn't want her town back, she wanted revenge. Pure biblical "eye for an eye" (she literally said "cutie marks for cutie marks") retaliation.
>>25616913
You never studied?
>>25617043
I'm wondering whether you're saying that no human being would stack books like that, or that human beings would stack books like that. Because I have trouble seeing how that is even relevant, since those two are obviously doing it for practice.
>>25613194
>Do you think she'd destroy all of Equestria just for revenge?
yepAll for revenge[\spoiler]
>>25616865
They were playing jenga with the books.
>>25613236
I'm pretty sure Sunburst expression is not from being annoyed or bored, but rather tired from levitating all those books. if I'm not mistaken he even smiles after that.
>>25613250
>>25613583
What I would have loved for a slightly older Starlight scene:
Instead of completely losing contact with Sunburst, she tries to enter Celestia's school and fails. Sunburst sees her failure and snubs her for it. It could serve as plausible motivation for her desire for equality.
>>25617514WHO?!?
