I've read this last month, and even though not much has stuck with me, I can't get over that part where Augustine talks about watching acts and getting a vicarious enjoyment out of the pity he felt for the characters rather than the pity he should feel for his fellow man.
I suppose it got me thinking about entertainment in general, and whether or not what we /lit/izens are doing is escapism. I mean, at this point, most of us have so many books that are worth reading, that we could read all day long and never stop.
I guess most people would agree that playing a video game all day or binging something shitty like anime/manga is escapism. But is reading philosophical/religious/political works all day long all that different? Or just going to places where all you do is discuss theoretical things that are never put to any practical use?
So, I guess I have three questions:
1. How do you really differentiate between when you're reading something to become a better person, and when you're reading as escapism with the excuse that you're trying to get "ready"?
2. Do you think that if Augustine were living today he would consider all our philosophical debates and endless reading lists an egocentric waste of time?
3. In what virtuous way could we pursue self-betterment through reading?
>>7968557
1. I only read philosophy or lit with value regarding personal virtue, this way, if I move from reading for knowledge to reading as escapism, I'm setting my memory up for a more successful rereading in the future.
2. Yes, I think most of the ancient philosophers wouldn't understand the point of philosophy if everyone accepts that good can't be defined.
3. Take notes while you read. If you're reading something too easy to take notes on, or you're just robotically copying text, you should probably grab a different book.
I'm really interested in Augustine, what works have you read by him? After I finish cicero I wanna give him a try.
>>7968557
These are plebeian questions, but I'm bored, so here you go.
>1. How do you really differentiate between when you're reading something to become a better person, and when you're reading as escapism with the excuse that you're trying to get "ready"?
When what I'm reading has substance behind it, sparks creativity, broadens my understanding of myself or human nature, or motivates me to better myself I feel satisfied.
When what I'm reading messages an appetite, such as lust, hate, fear, egoism, curiosity, etc.. Without giving me an understanding of the appetite in itself I feel empty and unsatisfied.
>2. Do you think that if Augustine were living today he would consider all our philosophical debates and endless reading lists an egocentric waste of time?
No, (considering his enlightened conception of the mind of god) he probably has a mindset much like my own which glorifies a broad understanding, and today we have an endless bounty of knowledge.
>3. In what virtuous way could we pursue self-betterment through reading?
Meditation/adding the concepts to our understanding thus broadening awareness -- and this in order to extract greater richness from our everyday experience. Also to purify the mind with a clear understanding of the self, and human nature -- thus becoming intelligence, love, and beauty.
>>7968557
You've touched on a fascinating point that crops up only rarely in ancient authors: condemnation of the pseudo-philosophers who turn to "learning" as an excuse for indolence, instead of for the purpose of actually living well.
Now obviously "living well" depends on knowing how you would go about doing so. Ultimately I think it's a personal judgment, in that you have to be honest with yourself regarding the worth of your reading. I tend to consider /lit/ too light on nonfiction, but personal preference and individual desires regarding what you want to get out of your readings are too diverse for me to be able to pass judgment on others. I think the ancients would expect us to at some point get off our asses and go do something with what we've learned; men who studied were praised, but only when they moved on to practical applications and used their knowledge to better themselves, the state, etc.
>>7970415
What have you read/are you planning to read of Cicero?
>>7970539
Read on friendship, starting de finibus, want to read de officiis and his republic as well.
>>7970698
How does he read? Are you enjoying him? And are you reading in English or Latin?
I picked up everything oxford classics offered by him, but don't want to read any until I've finished Plato and some Demosthenes, in light of how heavily (I've been told) they influenced Cicero.
>>7972530
Reading in English. Someday I'd like to read through in Latin though.
Yea Cicero essentially introduced Greek philosophy into the Roman nobility, so his views are a composite of all of the Greeks (including many we don't have full works by). In this way I think he works best as a reading buddy; when you hit a bunch of common themes in older philosophy, Cicero probably had something to say on it.
De Finibus is essentially a dialogue between an Epicurean, a Stoic, and an Academic Skeptic, so I wanted to have a good feel for each of the philosophies before I started it.
On Friendship only really uses Plato and Aristotle as models, so you can do that one ahead if you'd like a taster of Cicero's style.
