To make music you have got to know how to play an instrument. To make movies you need some willing actors and a camera. To make love you need a willing lover. To make computer games you need some painting and some coding skill. Thus those are arts. But how is writing an art? What makes a writer an artist? What are those special arts in which writing man excells? My dog can bark for you a Hemingway, a Robert Frost and a Chekhov. What is so special about people composing the pastas? And why do they deserve respect?
I can reply, and in great detail, but it would be a waste of time.
>>8286155
>open the door
>get on the floor
>everybody walks the dinosaur
thar. now it's art.
Like music, the pen is an instrument too.
Holy fuck, this is the most stupid question I have ever seen on /lit/. gtfo op.
>>8286155
>To make music you have got to know how to play an instrument.
It is not strange to find orchestra directors that are unable to play any of the instruments involved in a piece, yet they do music in some sense of the term, and often compose music as well.
Musicians are not very fond of directors for that reason....
>>8286174
Having knowledge of composition isnt the same as having technical knowledge of the instrument.
Its the same with an artist perhaps knowing how to draw his basic forms very well, but if he's ignorant of the rules of composition he wouldn't be able to do anything interesting.
With writers its also common to find people being able to do really nice detailed scenes or vignettes, but a full on narrative is beyond them.
>>8286171
>Taking the bait.
Come on, it's [CURRENT YEAR] people!
>>8286155
if you have to ask, you'll never know
>>8286155
But I can reply?
>>8286155
>To make music you have got to know how to play an instrument.
nope
>To make movies you need some willing actors and a camera.
camera maybe. but it is possible to e.g. make a documentary or a wildlife movie without "willing actors" (even if you count penguins or whatever as "actors")
>To make love you need a willing lover.
>he doesn't know of self love
>To make computer games you need some painting and some coding skill.
nope
k, there's your reply
pic unrelated
![30377_700b[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/c4P0d1u.jpg "30377_700b[1].jpg")
>>8286158
ooh
>the omnipotent poster dropped by
>too bad he's lazy. Now and evermore.
>>8286170
You could, for instance, use a pen to record music. That is what makes it relevant.
>>8286171
and you cannot answer it.
Shaaaame.
>>8286174
>It is not strange to find orchestra directors that are unable to play any of the instruments
And literature is an orchestra where no-one, NO-ONE, plays an instrument.
>>8286192
pic related.
>>8286194
sames for you if you can't answer.
>>8286207
Nope. It doesn't look so.
>>8286232
>Nope. It doesn't look so.
I thought you were making a sick reference, hence the pic.
I guess you're just not /lit/.
Explain to me why an instrument is needed to know how to write music.
>>8286239
nor are you. You cannot even explain why anyone would read the writings of dude x, who has no skills and no credentials; it's like watching someone sleep. Everybody can write. Everybody can confabulate a story.
>>8286255
>nor are you
But I thought you're argument was that everyone is /lit/.
What now, fucker?
btw try making it less obvious next time, you obviously have the potential to become a great baitster.
>>8286256
>The phrases "no," "wrong," "I disagree," and "nice try" aren't arguments
first and foremost, those aren't phrases. You can't have a phrase with one word. That said, for an argument you need a thesis, an antithesis and a synthesis. Henceforth take a "nope" for "this isn't an argument, dipshit".
>>8286266
>But I thought you're argument was that everyone is /lit/.
Prithee, I'm no argument!
>>8286249
This is Beethoven. He is deaf. But he does have an instrument. That's a sine qua non.
>>8286155
A sculptor needs...what, exactly?
>>8286232
Comprehensible arguments are not a concern to you apparently.
>>8286155
>To make love you need a willing lover
>>8286310
The same thing as a lover does, really.
>>8286319
"Comprehensible" are not a concern to any in casual conversation. Instead we have memes! And enthymemes!
>>8286155
Read your fucking Greeks.
>>8286337
A muse.
>>8286332
The cancer of /lit/
Honestly I don't know... I guess that for me, writing is an art in the sense that the writer can create in me some emotions through the way that he described events or how the characters interacted. It is also a good point if the writer can bring me through his work to question myself on things.
It is cliché, and I won't use the "words are weapons" expression, but the right words can bring a certain weight to an argument.
If it is a work of fiction, or a description of the landscape a writer went to, what I want is to feel it, to see the events or the landscape before my eyes while I go through the text: hear the crashing of the waves, smell the odor of salt, feel the wind against my skin...
Art is there to question ourselves.
Writing is the craft of putting the rights words in the right order to convey a precise message.
>>8286340
My man Πλατων here says:
εἰ δὲ τὴν ἡδυσμένην Μοῦσαν παραδέξῃ ἐν μέλεσιν ἢ ἔπεσιν, ἡδονή σοι kαὶ λύπη ἐν τῇ πόλει βασιλεύσετον ἀντὶ νόμου τε kαὶ τοῦ kοινῇ ἀεὶ δόξαντος εἶναι βελτίστου λόγου.
Or in plain, demotic, English:
Writers aren't good for nothing.
>>8286368
The very reason Plato views writing that way is because writers are good for something, it's just that that something isn't highly valued by Socrates because it's derivative. The writer creates worlds, and therefore knows every skill and craft, but unfortunately only through divine madness rather than techne. But you already know all this.
>>8286155
The writer is different from the musician in that the the musician creates "sounds", if you will, things of an audiological nature. The writer is concerned with letters, which by definition are objects which are "seen" using visualogical mechani, or mechanism, if you will. Therefore the writer or Wr-eye-ta is distinctly separated from the Mu-du-du-du-ician, by this very axiom. It is in summery a question of face organs, or facial organic features which from the axioms of this distinction. But there's more! More yes, being a man of pages the writer is also fundamentally a man of rectangles, and so is compose in this quadratic manner, thus the writer can be delineated as the ear-man of rectangular proclivity while the mu-du-du-sishan is fundamentally more ovoid, and thus more gay. Any further questions?
>>8286389
And he doesn't want them in his republic. Homer didn't know nothing. And got people irate over nothing.
>>8286429
It's not nothing. It's just not authentic. It's not uncovered on one's own.
>>8286155
>To make love you need a willing lover
No
>>8286435
Although he has Socrates argue for that those utter tools who are producing decent poetry must have been inspired by muses. I wish I knew what dialog it was, again. But even that concerns just poetry, not prose.
>>8286439
If love be one soul in two breast (or so it is said in the nikomachean ethic) you at the very least need those two breasts in order to have anything to consummate. Or do you have another definition on your mind?
>>8286155
You need language to write, that's the medium involved. Call it art or don't, it matters only to you what you think.
I think here is worth seeing exactly what the writer sets out to do. The end goal in all of these is without a doubt self-implied, be it the sound coming out of the instrument, the game which can be played or the painting which can be glanced at. They all have a sort of instantaneity to them which writing, at first look, lacks. I guess that already would set it out as different.
For what it sets out to do, writing is only a method. Like drawing, which can be architectural, technical, artistic, etc., can we consider them to be all "artful"? In the same manner, writing can be informative, technical, deconstructive of itself (but seems to fall into imitation of itself, buffoonery), so which of these are we refering to?
If we analyse what an art is, it is indeed purely imitative, though not of itself but rather of that which it tries to embody, which can be itself but then what is that which it is and who knows where we fall then. To imitate that which is, relay experience, writing, is then a narrative. It is a narrative. And what is all art if not a narrative? It is the development of that which is within time. No matter how abstract or fleeting or deconstructed or with no bearable relation to anything concrete. Writing is an art because it is, and we are artful beings. It is a process of creation. Your dog barking is as much music as music arranged with instruments is. Everything being art, nothing is art. So it all sucks.
>>8286155
Programmer who also plays a number of musical instruments and makes love to his willing lover (in the form of his hand. Bitches ain't nothing but hoes and tricks) here.
To make novels, you need to be able to convey a story, and hopefully a number of unique personalities.
It's a talent you also need in order to make music, if you wish for your shit to have lyrics. It's also a talent you need in order to make movies, as you can't just film a couple of retards (because that's all actors are) doing whatever the fuck they want - you need a story and a number of unique personalities. And your scripts can more often than not be novelized. And novels more often than not can be adapted on film.
You're retarded, OP.
>>8286474
I'd also add that writing has its tools and they are much more obvious than those which can be seen in composition, visual or auditive.
>see the Trivium
>>8286456
>>8286476
>movies
>needs a story
pleb pls
>>8286495
Hipster pls
Imagine having so huge inferiority complexes about not being able to get into reading that you spam /lit/ with anti-literature threads weekly for months.
Imagine that.
That people like this exist, it boggles the mind.
I know enough Python to make a computer game, but I'm not special because of it and I'll never be lauded because of my games.
You're oversimplifying things to the point of strawman.
>>8286508
Do you think that happens? That does kind of explain some stuff.
>>8286504
check out fricke dude
ekphrasis
>excells
my work here is done
>>8286327
Kek
>>8286155
It's all bout knowing how to use your words real good.
>>8286155
>What is so special about people composing the pastas
You've been shit-posting all day. I can recognize your style. You clearly have wit, intelligence, and erudition--but what are you doing with it?
>>8286272
>Thinking that a dissertation is an argument
CAPVT PRIMA
ANONIMA EST ________
>>8287665
I agree, while the OP brings interesting discussion, to an extent he's a bit of a tough guy who believes he can ''absolutely destroy'' and ''btfo'' /lit/ in a discussion.
The fundamental problem with this is that he's not a believer of the words he preaches, and in a funny manner slips trough the slope of literal autism.
Oh being a brainlet
>>8286155
How about, go fuck yourself? Better yet, go fuck your Chekhov barking dog
>>8286155
What make movies and computer games art is the ability to immerse someone and to provoke a new way of thinking about something. In my opinion, you need a good writer to immerse you in movies and computer games. If a game about Bart Simpson was made, I wouldn't feel immersed if Bart sounded like ash from Pokemon.
>>8286337
Yes.
>>8286332
>>8286337
The answer is a hammer and chisel. Because all you need to do are sculpt the lines where they are needed. So, too, in drawing; you draw the lines where they are needed. For literature, then, the art is in knowing where to put the "lines", just as in sculpting and drawing. We use words to do this.
>>8286155
>To make music you have got to know how to play an instrument.
(Actually no, you don't - but let's assume for now you can't)
>To make movies you need some willing actors and a camera.
(Now you make no mention of requiring knowledge)
>To make love you need a willing lover.
(Has nothing to do with former two. Making love can be a form of creative expression but cannot amount to a form of tangible media. Do you understand the diference?)
>To make computer games you need some painting and some coding skill.
>Thus those are arts.
(Skill/know how = Art) WEW, were do you get this from?
>But how is writing an art?
Well old sport, using your logic, like this:
>To write you need to know how to convey and express thoughts creatively trough mastery of language and communication
0.1/10
>>8286155
art vs skill breh
Singing? Dance? Your dog is very unusual, and you are a moron.
>>8286155
Stop reading literature, or stop posting on 4chan? Because I wish I could force myself to never do one and always do the other.
>>8286155
You posted a photo literally alluding to the fact that your post is bait and yet, somehow, people still went for it. I don't know if I should congratulate you, or condemn the morons on this board. I'll just do both: nice troll post anon! You've convinced these kids that not only do rabbits come from hats, but that the man pulling them out isn't a suicidal alcoholic trying to make ends meet before his end is welcomingly met.
>>8286155
all i want to know is why that trout was eating so many mice...
>>8293233
I came here to post this. I thought mice really didn't like water
Also Op don't post a picture more interesting than the rest of your post
To be a writer you need to be able to express interesting thoughts in a creative way. Just because there isn't some material you can master, that doesn't mean that it's any less of an art.
i wont forget that op image
>>8286423
Who's writing style is this?
>>8286155
>To make movies you need some willing actors and a camera
kek. If you don't know shit about cinema, please don't talk about it.
There's much more cinema than Syd Field's 3 act bullshit.
My dog can bark Mozart. My dog can bark Wagner. My dog can shit on a canvas and "paint" the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.
However, my dog cannot write. Writing something great requires intelligent thought, which neither my dog nor many people around the world, are capable of. Anybody can write a story. Anybody can beat the shit out of a piano. Not everybody can write something great. Not everybody can really 'play' the piano.
One in the same, and OP is a faggot. This is bait, as well, but I thought I would molest your stupid fucking question anyways.
>>8286155
um... writing?
A composer puts notes in specific orders to create a piece of music, the writer puts specific words in orders to create novel.
I don't even get why you'd ask that.But of course we all know it's just bait anyway.
>>8293332
You have a very talented dog.
