I rarely see this guy mentioned here. What are your thoughts on him? Favorite novel?
I personally enjoy Oliver Twist the most, but I've only read Two Cities, Great Expectation, and Twist, and Christmas Carole so far. I'm considering reading Bleak House next, but I've never met anyone who has read it so I don't know if I should.
I've posted multiple times in the past few months about going through Nicholas Nickleby extremely slowly due to boredom
>>8271161
read whatever you want, nobody cares
Currently going through Our Mutual Friend, it's great
>>8271161
I've read most of his work. Needless to say I find him worthwhile. He was the master at characterization. Bleak House is my favorite.
>>8271194
Are you completely lost?
Sam Hyde
>>8271239
are you? nobody really cares about what you read except you yourself, winning imaginary /lit/points doesn't contribute to having a wider base of knowledge in your own head so read whatever you fucking want
early dickens is best dickens. go back to the Pickwick Papers every time i'm looking for a chuckle :^) later stuff is too depressing
>>8271249
Thanks for making the board worse
>>8271273
same 2 u
>>8271249
You seem upset about something and would do well to do something else for the time being
I'm not even OP
>>8271259
That's what Chesterton thought too.
>>8271576
>Very long and tiresome novel
It's like a journey, anon. You just chill and watch as Mister Davy goes through his life.
And speaking of David, holy fuck what a horny protagonist. Seven years old and he's already declaring undying love to a girl. And then he fell in love again twice, one with a middle-aged lady.
And man, his relationship with Steerforh is gay as fuck. Didn't Steerforth have him read stories to him while he slept on his lap? I'm surprised I haven't saw any essay calling him bisexual, like those essays calling Miss Wade lesbian.
Reminds me of Pip and Herbert, and that one already had some fujo following.
Still in process of reading it, so I don't have any idea what Uriah Heep is up to. Shady as fuck guy though.
>>8271632
>Chesterton
Fucking hated that essay forcalling my waifu shit
Anyone has read his caricatures of the types of British ladies and gentlemen? Fucking hilarious and definitely still relevant to this day.
Why is this guy considered one of the best British writers ever? He's alright, not that good.
>>8273149
I dunno. I haven't found any writer that surpasses him.
>>8273206
>Basically none of this structure and shape and theme stuff they do in creative writing classes
Explain.
>>8273209
why should he? it's as good a description of dickens as any.
not entirely true, a christmas carol has shape/structure to it, great expectations has a shape. and his short stories are well in line with others of that era.
but prose was his strength. he was also very good at the individual scene.
>>8273236
I thought he was saying he went abstract and shit since he said he didn't do the usual structure.
Eliot > Dickens
>>8273430
The funny thing is Elliot was quite a critic of Dickens back then. She didn't like his portrayal of the poor.
Haven't read any Elliot so I don't know her portrayal.
>>8271161
someone needs to shop Sam Hyde's face into this
>>8273537
>Sam Hyde
Who?
>>8271161
Literary God incarnate. Obviously you're not going to hit the depths of Melville and his works probably don't fully conform to the Joycean standard as expounded in the Portrait, but there's a reason Joyce placed him at apex of the Oxen of the Sun chapter. His writing is impeccable. In Dickens you'll find the embryo for most of Joyce's literary experiments. One example: Molly's lack of punctation - Flora in Little Dorrit (though also from Nora's letters). Likewise profound influence on Melville - "The Confidence Man" overflows over with Martin Chuzzlewit allusions.
>>8273430
Maybe true, but apples and oranges. Middlemarch ranks high in my esteem - one of the few books I'd call a genuine masterpiece -- but Eliot is known for psychological depth, not something anyone credits Dickens with. His characters have been accurately described as "flat, but vibrating very quickly." But that said, Middlemarch is not nearly as pleasant or humorous to read. In fact, Eliot's sentences occasionally get too long for her and become hard to follow - a criticism difficult to lodge against Dickens, despite the generally *longer* length of his sentences.
Dickens is a joy to read and none of his books reek as outright stinkers, a real feat for an author whose bibliography is longer than my...
Recommendations:
Bleak House is solid. Tightly woven, nice and clear balance between Dickens the cynical satirist and Dickens the moralist, thrilling conclusion.
Martin Chuzzlewit is sorely overlooked. I just about started a thread about it. Great American novel. Dickens at his most comical.
>>8271161 already read Great Expectations, but phew, what a book.
>>8273715
>Flora in Little Dorrit
>tfw you imagined her as pretty the entire book even though she's actually fat since you misread her description
>Martin Chuzzlewit
Any easily assblasted Muricans shouldn't read this.
>>8271249
stop responding to this post. It's a game, you see. A jib. Anon is having a laugh at your expense.
>>8271161
Dickens' work shows a definite arc that says something about personality and so on. His early work, exemplified by Pickwick Papers (as >>8271259 mentions), is much lighter and humorous, whereas his later work tends to be darker. To me, Bleak House might be a pivot point and the most balanced/complete of his works.
>>8273579
Literary God incarnate. Obviously you're not going to hit the depths of Melville and his works probably don't fully conform to the Joycean standard as expounded in the Portrait, but there's a reason Joyce placed him at apex of the Oxen of the Sun chapter. His writing is impeccable. In Hyde you'll find the embryo for most of Joyce's literary experiments. One example: Molly's lack of punctation - Flora in Little Dorrit (though also from Nora's letters). Likewise profound influence on Melville - "The Confidence Man" overflows over with Martin Chuzzlewit allusions.
>>8273784
>According to an account in the Boston Bee, the negative portrayal of America in Martin Chuzzlewit caused one Englishman to be so disgusted that he chose to drown himself so that he would not have to enter New York
lmao
>>8275096
Do you have any speculative thoughts on why he went through that transition?
>>8275271
I'm no authority on Dickens, but I've looked into his life so I'm not completely pulling this out of my ass. Part of it might have been simply age.
Another possible aspect that has occurred to me is his concern for social justice (child welfare for a major example) and an increasing frustration over England's slow progress. One thing I find interesting is that Dickens' personal circumstances improved dramatically from his childhood of conscripted factory labor to a life of relative comfort. I mention it because it's evidence that the darkness that crept over his writing wasn't directly tied to his personal fortunes. (Not immediately so, anyway: maybe the suffering of his youth took time to come to the surface in his writing. I'll draw a parallel here with Dostoyevsky, an admirer of Dickens and one with a similar concern for the less powerful. I was surprised at how light-hearted his writings were immediately after his arrest, mock-execution, and exile and how it took some years for the trauma to surface.)
Something else I've thought about with Dickens is the disconnect between the compassion evident in his writings and his own personal conduct, particularly in his married life. I think maybe the judgment of wrong in his work is partly (maybe unconsciously) directed back at himself, and something like that has the potential to fester and grow over time.
>>8275271
Also talking out of my ass, but:
Just getting older probably. Most astute students of human nature - writer's in particular - end up there at some point, especially those who started with an ideal, as Dickens the moralist clearly did (see >>8275452) . Mark Twain's another good example of someone of tremendous wit who believed there were good folks in the world and who finally just decided mankind wasn't worth its salt, keeping a jovial good attitude about it nonetheless.
I think most people agree that in terms of work, Martin Chuzzlewit represents the turning point. It's a very funny book, but the humor quite a bit darker than his earlier stuff.
>>8275452
>>8275520
Great posts, thanks a lot. I think your explanation is probably on the right track if not already correct. I haven't read any Dickens yet, but you've answered another question I had, which was why he, from what I've read, was so incredibly concerned with poverty and young children and such. The Dostoevsky parallel is wonderful too
>>8275520
maybe it was his trip to America that made him turn more dark. His notes about his travels and critiques of American society weren't too positive
>>8275601
What did he criticize?
>>8275601
>>8275616
Certainly could be. The whole satire is basically "Americans talk a big game, but behind it is just knavery" Here's Martin's conclusion before leaving:
"What an extraordinary people you are!" cried Martin. "Are Mr Chollop [a sort of Al Swearengen
character - maybe closer to his toady in that show] and the class he represents an Institution here? Are pistols with revolving barrels, sword-sticks, bowie-knives, and such things, Institutions on which you pride yourselves? Are bloody duels, brutal combats, savage assaults, shooting down and stabbing in the streets your Institutions! Why, I shall hear next that Dishonour and Fraud are among the Institutions of the great republic!"
The moment the words passed his lips, the Honourable Elijah Pogram [a politician] looked round again.
"This morbid hatred of our Institutions," he observed, "is quite a study for the psychological observer. He's alludin' to the Repudiation now!"
"Oh! You may make anything an Institution if you like," said Martin, laughing, "and I confess you had me there, for you certainly have made that one. But the greater part of these things are one Institution with us, and we call it by the generic name of Old Bailey!"
>>8275640
...Wait, is he visiting the Wild West?
>>8275982
He gets suckered into buying a plot of worthless land in Eden, Illinois. The scenes in New York are also hilarious. It really is the great American novel.
>>8276044
>He gets suckered into buying a plot of worthless land in Eden, Illinois
Oh boy, I can just imagine an Englishman stranded in a bumfuck cowboy town out of nowhere.
>>8273190
>I dunno. I haven't found any writer that surpasses him.
>>8271177
I noticed and tried to call you out for it whenever I could
Did you finish it yet?
