Why don't we start with the Sumerians instead?
Plebs obsessed with MUH HOMER MUH PLATO DURRR
>>8265228
/lit/ is more fond of the western canon. But I do agree with you. Any thread I see of Gilgamesh usually gets ignored.
>>8265228
Because we only read dead, white males
>>8265339
We're called men, Anon.
>>8265339
>Greeks
>White
What's the best and most updated edition of Gilgamesh?
Because Babylonians are depraved assholes and the Greeks, Hebrews, and Egyptians universally hated them. All civilization is built on the premise on not being a Bel worshipping ziggurat dwelling Iraqi tryhard boyfucker.
>>8265346
Does it make a difference if i use male or men? Englisch is not my native language.
>>8265372
Andrew George's translation (the penguin) is widely regarded the best and it is objectively the most extensive.
>>8265379
The Greeks fucked little boys though, they weren't exactly a shining beacon of morality
>>8265620
they also wept far too much and wasted good wine and meat with their libations and sacrifices.
>>8265228
I did.
Is there a "start with the jews" chart?
>>8265673
what would be on there beside the bible?
>>8265228
I think there's actually valid reasons as to why we don't start with the Sumerians if you ever want to BTFO a SJW who says it's just eurocentrism.
If I remember correctly, it's because Gilgamesh only survives in fragments, additionally, almost no Mesopotamian philosophy survives, and what does is nowhere near as profound as e.g. Plato's forms. Also, not a lot of other Sumerian literary works survive, compare that to the volumes of Greek theatre etc.
I something about this ages ago so I recommend you look it up yourself, I may be recalling incorrectly
What is there beyond the Epic of Gilgamesh and how much grain Ereshkigal sold on the 8th lunar season of Marduk?
>>8265678
The obvious next step would be Eichmann in Jerusalem as an introduction to jewish fiction.
Mostly because the Sumerian lit that survives is very fragmentary, it's the same reason that people don't jerk off Parmenides or Heraclitus nearly as much as Plato despite it being not only possible, but likely, that they were just as profound in their thoughts.
Most of the Egyptian works that survive are religious in nature and are again, fragmentary, much of them is taken from temple walls.
The start with Greeks meme only refers to philosophy. The Greeks started philosophy.
>>8265228
Because Bronze age civilisation collapsed and there is not continuity between them and us. They are on a different ladder, whereas the greeks are the foot of our ladder. Starting with the Sumerians would be like starting with the Chinese or Mayans
>>8265686
>BTFO a SJW
This is disgusting.
>>8265228
Because none of the western canon actually read them and a big part of starting with Greeks is training yourself to parse western texts and ideas
>>8266098
>The Greeks started philosophy.
Not really.
>>8265228
Word mang I love Gilgamesh. The feels are unreal.
Because of /pol/scum
>>8265228
we *do*, it's just you anglocucks who don't
When the new world hierarchy comes into being we will all Commence with the Chinese.
>>8265228
I did a course on ancient literature and thought and we studied Gilgamesh before moving on to the Iliad.
>>8265339
Greeks aren't much whiter than Sumerians
because the romans read the greeks, the medieval europeans read the romans, the renaissance europeans read the greeks, the romans, and the medieval europeans, the reformation europeans and americans read the renaissance europeans, the medieval europeans, the greeks, and the romans, the romantic-era europeans read the greeks, the romans, the medieval europeans, the renaissance europeans, and the reformation europeans, the realist-era europeans and americans read the greeks, the romans, the medieval europeans, the renaissance europeans, the reformation-era europeans and americans, and the romantic-era europeans and americans, the 20th century europeans and americans read the greeks, the romans, the medieval europeans, the renaissance europeans, the reformation-era europeans and americans, the romantic-era europeans and americans, and the realist-era europeans and americans, and the 21st century europeans and americans read the greeks, the romans, the medieval europeans, the renaissance europeans, the reformation europeans and americans, the romantic era europeans and americans, the realist era europeans and americans, the 20th century europeans and americans, and occasionally the sumerians.
>>8265533
>>8265372
I have both the Andrew George (Penguin, 1999) and the Stephanie Dalley (Oxford World's Classics, 1988) editions. I haven't read any and don't know much about the epic or its context, so I'm a bit baffled about which one I should choose (I had a third one too which seemed to be a retelling in prose, so I ditched that).
Looking at the critical apparatus alone, the Dalley seems more extensive. There are more notes and introductions and such. However, the George seems to include more texts (both have a plethora of works outside the epic itself).
What baffles me the most is the differences within the translations. I've only read the first page of each and that was enough. Here's the beginning:
Dalley:
[Of him who] found out all things, I [shall te]ll the land,
[Of him who] experienced everything, [I shall tea]ch the whole.
He searched (?) lands (?) everywhere.
He who experienced the whole gained complete wisdom.
He found out what was secret and uncovered what was hidden,
He brought back a tale of times before the Flood.
George:
He who saw the Deep, the country's foundation,
[who] knew ... , was wise in all matters!
[Gilgamesh, who] saw the Deep, the country's foundation,
[who] knew ... , was wise in all matters!
[He] ... everywhere ...
and [learnt] of everything the sum of wisdom.
He saw what was secret, discovered what was hidden,
he brought back a tale of before the Deluge.
Differences in style are one thing, but here's a passage from a bit further on.
Dalley:
See its wall, which is like a copper band,
Survey its battlements, which nobody else can match,
George:
See its wall like a strand of wool,
view its parapet that none could copy!
You will agree that a copper band is something entirely different from a strand of wool. How can one translator come up with wool where another reads copper? And this is just in the first fifteen lines.
As a novice reader, I'm at a loss here. I dont know enough to be able to pass judgement. Anyone who is familiar with both editions care to comment on this? Which one do I read, /lit/?
>>8266564
Dalley's edition was apparently revised in 2000, two years after it was published as an OWC.
I suppose that having the two of them will help to discern nuances in the text. Perhaps having the cuneiform text will also help, even if you can't read it, in case there is an online dictionary of some sort.
You can download George's complete study from LibGen, just search "gilgamesh george" and you will find his two critical volumes on the poem.
>>8265333
Gilgamesh is the first book in the Western Canon....
>>8266056
>it's the same reason people don't jerk off Parmenides or Heraclitus as much as Plato
you must be new here. give it time.
>>8266331
So did I, and yes, they did start with Gilgamesh.
>>8266564
there are different tablets.
if you read the penguin you'll notice he has translated all the major versions of the story and put them behind the 'canon' tablet. dalley might have just opted for different tablets, because as far as i can recall she did not translate all or even multiple (?)
all i know is george is the authority on this shit (google for a freely downloadable essay on a newly found tablet that expands on the portion in the cedar forest) and everyone calls it by its incipit "he who saw the deep" as far as i know.
so, probably read george for gilgamesh, and dalley for the other works.
>>8266098
lol nah. Dyou really think the first person to love wisdom was 2500 years ago in Greece? unlikely
>>8265228
Fuck you guys, I have just started with pic related, almost finished "A brief history of ancient Greece" and soon wanted to move to Mythology.
Make a list of what I should read of the Sumerians and I'll read it after the Greeks.
God fucking dammit I'll never get to meme philosophers like Max Stirner and be able to shitpost and meme with you guys.
>>8266166
SJW detected.
>>8266483
Weren't the Ancient Greeks whiter than modern Greeks though? I don't mean that in a WE WUZ sorta way, but it seems that most ancient Greek epics claim their characters to have red and blonde hair for example. IIRC the Romans also contrasted the light skin of the Greeks with their own olive skin.
>>8266617
>Sand book by sand people
>"Western Canon
I rate Gilgamesh, but there's nothing Western about it; pretending that our current civilisation is at the tip of some pyramid of continuous progress that stretches back to Mesopotamia is utter tosh.
>>8270405
http://sonic.net/~rteeter/grtbloom.html
>>8268631
they didnt have blond hair, and especially not red hair
>>8267724
only worthwile read from the near east is gilgamesh, and its short af. iirc its like 3k lines vs the 16k of the Iliad
>>8265228
Just what I did.
![platon_2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wkRwzMY.jpg "platon_2[1].jpg")
>>8265371
Explain this
We only have tiny fragments but the Epic of Gilgamesh is based on older works that lead to the early bronze age and those stories themselves ultimately derive from shamanic origins tens of thousands of years ago.
Start with pic related. The connection with mythology, philosophy, and later literature proper will not be apparent at first. After you get a grasp of Shamanism, its constellations, and the origins of mythology then you can move to Gilgamesh then the Greeks.
>>8265379
This is beautiful.
>>8270587
That's actually a common misconception. They used to paint their "white" statues to suit their rich brown colour, but the paint wore off with time.
They didn't paint their bronze statues, because they didn't need to.
>>8270660
>we waz greeks n shit
>>8270944
We Wuz Tyrants n Zeus
>>8270587
In the UK, Greeks aren't considered white.
>>8265371
Yes
White does not mean Scandinavian
>>8270970
Speak for yourself
>>8270553
>How to spot someone who hasn't read the Greeks.
>>8270624
Which one of those is the start point? Frazer, Campbell or the Eliade in the middle? Yes, I'm too stupid to understand the chart, wonder how I'll fare with the actual books.
>>8270970
white is an Anglo-American meme and should be disregarded. Go back to 1AD and start talking about the white race if you want to see confused faces.
>>8271160
It's academic literature so it's best read in chronological order.
>>8271381
Eh, we have pretty close approximates. Latin, Slavic, Germanic.
>>8271040
and the aegean is red as wine
>>8270405
Obviously all civilization west of India is deeply rooted in Mesopotamian civilizations you retard.
>>8268631
they were all nordic until the arab and ottoman invasions
>>8270405
I guess the Bible isn't important to the Western Canon either
>>8271160
>Which one of those is the start point?
Start with Frazer, then trickle down
>>8266564
wait, did you just use plethora unironically?
>>8273131
It's a fairly common word.
>>8266231
this meme gets repeated a lot but it's little more than white anxiety at the prospect of a new global superpower.
China will never have the kind of cultural hegemony English speaking nations and their respective cultures have.
>>8265228
Summarize the Sumerians
>>8271458
It's dark red you fkn plebeian
>>8265371
They were a lot whiter before being raped by Turks.
