Can we agree that all criticism of Nietzsche is simply a misunderstanding of him?
Can we also agree no one has ever rebutted Nietzsche's glorious praise of Islam?
>Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (—I do not say by what sort of feet—) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin—because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life!… The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust—a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very “senile.”—What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich…. Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won…. The German noble, always the “Swiss guard” of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church—but well paid…. Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious…. Christianity, alcohol—the two great means of corruption
>>8257834
no, leave
>The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down
Why would he say that? He was the biggest Greekaboo there was...
Can we all agree that neitzches' philosophy boils down that life would be extremely painful 4 U unless you're a big guy?
>>8257928
Nietzsche knew that even the Greeks and Romans were inferior to the greatness of Islam.
>>8257834
Nietzsche "praised Islam" the same way bohemian American twentysomethings "praise Buddhism"
>>8258053
You should actually read Nietzsche before spouting off bullshit like this
>>8258015
And all are inferior to an Ubermensch?
>>8258071
Mohammed was an ubermensch
"Of all who are praised they are praised the most, who are the authors and founders of religions. After whom come the founders of kingdoms and commonwealths. Next to these, they have the greatest name who as commanders of armies have added to their own dominions or those of their country. After these, again, are ranked men of letters, who being of various shades of merit are celebrated each in his degree. To all others, whose number is infinite, is ascribed that measure of praise to which his profession or occupation entitles him."
-Machiavelli
Mohammed was all of these
>>8258074
So he respects the achievement from a historical point of view, rather than endorsing the values associated with it?
>>8258078
this is literally all Nietzsche does.
if you think Nietzsche is endorsing any "values" then you missed the point entirely.
>>8258065
speak for yourself bub
>>8258083
That was my point :^)
>>8258074
>combining nietzsche and machiavelli
>>8258086
in that case my apologies
>>8258083
Indeed, Nietzsche rejects values, he is a nihilist in that sense.
>>8258093
Nietzsche had great respect for Cesare Borgia and said people should strive to emulate him. Cesare Borgia was Machievelli's idol and the impetus for much of his political writings.
>>8258107
No, it's not that he rejects values, it's just that he strives to be objective. He hates bias, and loved science.
>>8258099
But his ultimate goal is life affirming philosophy yes?
Nietzsche's praise of Islam is out of context. Basically he said it's better then Judaism and Christianity because of less contamination with slave morality. He also said all religions are decadent, especially the Abrahamic faiths.
>>8258123
yes, which i suppose is an endorsement of the value of living.
>>8258123
No, he talks about life-affirmation objectively, he doesn't endorse it, so to speak.Nietzsche is about being objective, not about endorsing values.
The reason he praises it is same reason praises the Torah or God of Old Testament: cruelty, anger, power hunger and the lack of effeminate compassion that came with Jesus.
He still hates it though.
You niggers seem to be implying he loves it in a histoticist way (best of conceivable ideologies in the remote past for people at the time.)
>>8258141
And the moors and ottoman empire are very different to modern day isis, which he never encountered, obviously he wouldn't respect that radical version of islam.
>>8258167
In what sense
>>8258174
I can't spoon feed knowledge of history.
>>8258174
Would his aesthetics have opposed the destruction of historical artefacts?
>>8258177
Modern islamic states are very similar to the otoman empire and moors. They differ from Isis but Isis is a small radical form in the middle east if you consider all different groups.
If heliked them he most definitely would have liked modern radicalism
>>8258203
I'm not convinced, and you can't blame the past for lack of knowledge about the future.
>>8258160
>he still hates it
But he says it's better than Greece or Rome, how can you call that hate?
>>8258264
And would he say napoleon is 'better' than muhammad?
>8257834
If Nietzsche had been familiar at all with Islam, he would have recognized that it is even more life- and world-negating than Christianity.
>>8258274
Napoleon held Mohammed in extremely high regard well into his exile.
>>8258215
>muh knowledge about the future.
>>8258299
exactly, no one does.
Islam was pretty much superiour in most ways during his time and before.
the whole extremist fundamentalism and negative connotations that make racist grandmothers piss themselves, didn't start until the 60s or so.
>>8258307
Yeah, Islam is fundamentally peaceful, the extremism is a product of U.S. intervention and the existence of Israel
>>8258317
good lord i hope this is sarcasm
>>8257834
he literally wrote one thing about Islam, actually maybe two IIRC. He was in no way immune to the romanticism with which Islam was treated in the 19th century. If he saw ISIS he'd be writing books trashing their shit religion.
>>8258553
Nietzsche probably wouldn't love ISIS, but he'd still have a great respect for them because of their will to destruction and love of war.
>>8258317
>>8258307
>Islam is fundamentally peaceful
No, lmao. That also implies that peace is a good thing-in-itself which it is not. But a dumb war is much worse than a dumb peace. Islam has generated a lot of dumb wars based on Mohammed's dictate to wage war on unbelievers to force them to submit. Christianity spread like a parasite in the Roman Empire's digestive system, softening it until it could no longer digest hard truths but only weak lies, then weakening the barbarians who destroyed the thus weakened Roman Empire in the same way.
Islam spread by the sword, Bedouin barbarians destroying softer civilizations much as the Germanic barbarians did. Their lies were harder to be sure, but they hardened bodies more than minds over time. Initially as Islam expanded it created stability and permitted the mostly Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian scholars of Persia and the Levant to spread knowledge amongst themselves and more importantly translate ancient Greek works into Arabic, preserving them. But as Islam began to deepen its influenced rather than spreading it it began to erode the intellectual power of the civilizations it controlled. Its hard lies bound bodies but more importantly minds. Decadence was dealt with harshly, reaction to changing ways came even more furiously than it did in Christian Europe.
At the end of the day the fact that Christianity was so soft allowed Europeans to overcome it so much more easily than Asians have been able to overcome Islam (despite Luther's hiccup). Men have to be sent to face the hardest truth (that of nihilism) rather than insulated from it if you want to create an Ubermensch.
>>8258573
For Nietzsche war was kind of a stupid necessity that was only good insofar as it created stress and pain, which forced people to critically examine what they valued. The latter part of this formulation was the key to everything for him, in the coming of the new age he recognized and embraced the fact that the common man could no longer be shielded from combat in the truest battle, that with nihilism.
For him the internal war was the most important one. Wars between and within nations only had utility in that they spurred wars within men.
>>8258573
Even anarchists waged war with much bravado. ISIS is clearly an reaction movement against the massively successful west(just look at all the western recruits), theyre much like anarchists in that manner, and Nietzsche hated the anarchist. Of course, the will to war itself is admirable.
>>8258582
"I welcome all the signs indicating that a more manly and warlike age is commencing, which will, above all, bring heroism again into honour!"
"War and courage have done more great things than charity. Not your sympathy, but your bravery has saved the unfortunate."
>>8258595
Anarchists wanted to abolish hierarchy, not really comparable.
>>8258612
Again, the whole heroism into honour thing is about revaluation. He hated Christian values and wanted to see Greek style hero-veneration instead. It was all a question of what was being valued.
War does more good than charity because it breaks the bad systems more often than the good ones while charity (ie, Christianity) maintains bad ones in perpetuity.
>>8258621
Right, he wanted heroic fighters of war, not demagogues and philanthropists. ISIS works to restore this ideal.
>>8258625
>ISIS works to restore this ideal.
Raping and beheading women and children doesn't seem too heroic to me.
>>8258625
Not really, ISIS bans all pleasures but religion. It's an example of what he recognized as the doctor (ie priest, ISIS is led by a theologian after all) creating the condition in men that he is best suited to treat.
At the end of the day Islam leans on Plato as heavily as Christianity does so it can't indefinitely escape the same kind of erosion, it's just a harder and more violent take on the same general faith.
Not even Nietzsche understood Nietzsche
