>Spend the past few months immersing myself in classical literature/music/etc, having ignored pretty much all of it for most of my life
>Realize how utterly robbed we have been by modernity: modern life, education, culture, etc
Anyone else know this feel? My life now feels like one long catch-up. Have things declined, or are all these people who insist that I'm nostalgic, or wearing rose-tinted glasses, wrong? Should I make peace with modernity?
Go full Don Quixote
>>8209016
They don't make windmills like they used to.
You're a meme, OP.
Things have not declined, you just have no insight and don't know where to look. Stunning ignorance and fedoraism - it's embarrassing to watch.
>>8209025
>He thinks you have to choose
You're a meme. But for the sake of curiosity, just where should one 'look' for culture of the classical calibre in the modern day?
>>8209028
>>He thinks you have to choose
What?
>>8209005
I started listening to more Beethoven recently.
Modern music is just fucking noise, by comparison.
lol thovenplebs
>>8209005
Artistic creations are all responses to the authors contemporary "climate", if they are relevant to that climate. Certainly biases can likely be found that are remnants of their contemporary existence even in places where they should not, such as philosophy, but in most places, such as narratives, they can be found much more explicitly.
Now to the point: you can not feel robbed of something you have never experienced, and to say that any experience which has not been directly felt by the speaker can be compared is an even more preposterous concept.
In short- don't say the past was better than the present when you never experienced both, then even negating the effects of a false nostalgia, and realize that if you don't relate to modern concepts which are connected to the collective modern conscious it is a result of the fact that you lack the mental faculties to, as it is through a collective advancement of modern conscious that we have progressed.
>>8209131
>if you don't relate to modern concepts which are connected to the collective modern conscious it is a result of the fact that you lack the mental faculties to
So what you're saying that modern art/music/etc are good, and that anyone who doesn't think so is dumb.
Yeah, you're full of shit.
>>8209132
retard frogfaggot
>>8209131
>don't say the past was better than the present
Who cares if the past was better than the present, you can't change the past.
>>8209132
they are good, as is the pre-modern. it's dumb to pick a side
>>8209144
>they are good
Who let the pleb out?
read civilisation as divine superman
it'll help
>>8209005
The argument you will encounter will usually be to the effect of:
>"People have always said that things are getting worse!"
And the funny thing is that in a way, those 'people' are entirely correct.
Our universe/plane of existence is one in which entropy is inbuilt, and it is therefore not unreasonable to postulate that this necessary decline will present itself even in Human affairs.
As Schopenhauer said, perhaps the Bible's only redeeming argument is that this is a fallen world, occupied by fallen beings.
>>8209005
>start reading classical literature and philosophy
>can't get myself to even watch a film anymore because it won't challenge me intellectually
>knowing that this is pretentious as fuck but can't help myself playing chess, listening to classical music and reading literature because it is far more stimulating than anything else
>feel empty in the modern world
>>8209167
You should read Nietzsche's aphorism entitled 'Wanderer', the final one in 'Human, All Too Human'. It resonated pretty powerfully with me:
>He who has attained intellectual emancipation to any extent cannot, for a long time, regard himself otherwise than as a wanderer on the face of the earth and not even as a traveller towards a final goal, for there is no such thing. But he certainly wants to observe and keep his eyes open to whatever actually happens in the world; therefore he cannot attach his heart too firmly to anything individual; he must have in himself something wandering that takes pleasure in change and transitoriness. To be sure such a man will have bad nights, when he is weary and finds the gates of the town that should offer him rest closed; perhaps he may also find that, as in the East, the desert reaches to the gates, that wild beasts howl far and near, that a strong wind arises, and that robbers take away his beasts of burden. Then the dreadful night closes over him like a second desert upon the desert, and his heart grows weary of wandering. Then when the morning sun rises upon him, glowing like a Deity of anger, when the town is opened, he sees perhaps in the faces of the dwellers therein still more desert, uncleanliness, deceit, and insecurity than outside the gates and the day is almost worse than the night. Thus it may occasionally happen to the wanderer but then there come as compensation the delightful mornings of other lands and days, when already in the grey of the dawn he sees the throng of muses dancing by, close to him, in the mist of the mountain; when afterwards, in the symmetry of his ante meridian soul, he strolls silently under the trees, out of whose crests and leafy hiding places all manner of good and bright things are flung to him, the gifts of all the free spirits who are at home in mountains, forests, and solitudes, and who, like himself, alternately merry and thoughtful, are wanderers and philosophers. Born of the secrets of the early dawn, they ponder the question how the day, between the hours of ten and twelve can have such a pure, transparent, and gloriously cheerful countenance: they seek the ante-meridian philosophy.
>>8209171
I wonder if that was a subtle reference to the 'Wandering Jew' legend/folklore that existed in much of Europe, given his love for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew
>The Wandering Jew is a mythical eternal whose legend began to spread in Europe in the 13th century. The original legend concerns a Jew who taunted Jesus on the way to the Crucifixion and was then cursed to walk the earth until the Second Coming.
>>8209167
Why not try natural philosophy?
>>8209148
you don't have the dubs to be talking like that son
>>8209166
>he posted from his computer, in a heated room, after having had several meals that day, and not having excruciatingly died from infectious disease and exposure
>>8209171
Thanks for sharing -- good quick read while sitting in the crapper.
>>8209189
>"The man with a toothache thinks everyone happy whose teeth are sound. The poverty stricken man makes the same mistake about the rich man." - G.B.S.
>>8209189
>He unironically conflates material progress with intellectual/spiritual/ethical progress
>He unironically conflates material contentment with intellectual/spiritual/ethical contentment
Someone said that the worst consequence of the Enlightenment was to put the whole of Human discourse on material terms.
Wish I could remember who.
>>8209190
The toilet is rightfully regarded as philosophy's throne.
>>8209005
>>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/ >>>/his/
>>8209252
This is a philosophical discussion, for which lit is *the* board.
>>8209167
The joys of being a ``sophisticated'' 17-year-old.
>>8209247
so why are you posting here? don't you have some mac 'n cheese to go roll around in?
>>8209285
Nah, but now that my most basic needs are attended to, I can freely attend higher pursuits.
Try listening to classical music, or looking at modern art, when you are crippled by hunger/thirst/illness/etc.
>>8209299
>fell for the hierarchy of needs meme
>most autistic of all memes
>>8209323
By definition, you can't just ignore the hierarchy of needs - unless you like the idea of dying.
Though of course, you don't consider yourself when ignoring it. You merely hope you will not be among those who perish from having their most basic needs neglected.
I simply ask, why take that chance? Better safe than sorry.
>>8209005
Being in modernity puts you in a privileged position to survey all that came before you.
But often the experience of modernity paradoxically leaves us unprepared to appreciate or even be made aware of the past trends which are influencing us. That their discovery is accompanied by a sense of loss is totally appropriate given the circumstances. At the same time you are viewing them from outside the meme, which is a special vantage point. Everyone in this thread is right.
>>8209326
To me it seems apparent that a spiritual need can be just as fatal as a material one.
>Have things declined, or are all these people who insist that I'm nostalgic, or wearing rose-tinted glasses, wrong?
Read Barzun's From Dawn to Decadence. Yes, things have declined.
>>8209166
>Our universe/plane of existence is one in which entropy is inbuilt, and it is therefore not unreasonable to postulate that this necessary decline will present itself even in Human affairs.
In a closed system dumbass. Also how the fuck does entropy apply physically and not metaphorically to human society?
>>8209005
>Have things declined
Things are declining all the time - don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The world is a graveyard full of gone civilizations, peoples, and languages. Progressive leftists just labor under the delusion that society, like wine, can only improve as time goes on according to some magical principle.
>>8209021
Underrated post.
Things haven't declined one bit. You can enjoy everything that has been done in the past with the commodities of the present, and if and when anything new happens to be good you can enjoy that too. Why is this so hard to grasp?
>>8209434
>Things haven't declined one bit.
Degeneracy is just a spook? Suuuure.
>>8209034
>good music can't be atonal
Jesu christ almighty
>>8209406
>Progressive leftists just labor under the delusion that society, like wine, can only improve as time goes on according to some magical principle.
Not only this, but they believe that 'their' society will be an exception to the rule that you've alluded to; that theirs will not experience the same fate as all the other civilizations/peoples/languages.
That's what happens when you have a retarded linear view of history, rather than recognizing it as cyclical.
>>8209464
Describe degeneracy
>>8209472
le vito face
>implying the world has ever been at a level of closeness and globalization as it had today
>implying this doesn't totally change the game across the board
>>8209486
>MY ideal is an exception to the rule
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
>>8209406
Why does everyone on this board write in such a pretentious way?
Wine doesn't always improve with age anyway.
How come the people who claim that X medium is dead has no interest or knowledge about it
>>8209493
>Wine doesn't always improve with age anyway.
You're right. Let's drink some Welch's grape juice bro.
>>8209493
All white wine turns to vinegary shit at some point (except the very sweet ones), only red wine gets better with age
>>8209492
That's not even an ideal
The peoples of the world have never had such immediate one to one contact as they do today
I can get on social media and start looking into the life of someone from South Africa, Korea, etc etc, something previously available only to merchants and nobles
>>8209495
10/10
>>8209504
None of this means your ideal society is any less impermanent than those that have come before.
Indeed, the irony is that as the world becomes more 'interconnected', nationalism is also on the rise.
>>8209167
chess is far from the most intellectually challenging game you can play...
>>8209521
t. Checkers player
>>8209005
you haven't been robbed of anything OP, you're just a fucking peasant comparing yourself with the nobles of yesteryear
unless you genuinely think being an illiterate who lives in a hovel and scratches at the dirt your entire life is better than having all modern conveniences and immediate access to the sum of human writings
>>8209025
OP is asking us if things have declined without making a definitive statement. I think he is only, more or less, disappointed that he was never pushed in the right direction by his parents, schools, media, etc. I felt the same way after finally reading Homer. The only time I had ever experienced that before was when I studied Shakespeare in highschool. But I was annoyed that I hadn't been exposed to Homer much earlier in life. The Iliad is a perfect book to teach in highschool.
The point is, without some stroke of luck, thanks to the distractions of "modernity", more and more people will go through life without exposure to great canonical literature from the past. Such expose will eventually lead the more ardent readers to more contemporary lit. You learn to 'know where to look' by first reading what has stood the test of time and is broadly recommended, hence the importance of establishing a literary canon -- something Bloom can't get enough credit for.
>>8209166
My thermodynamics prof said all philosophy boils down to the second law of thermodynamics. Kind of cringy, but it does have its applications.
>>8209521
t. Go player
>>8209540
>My thermodynamics prof said all philosophy boils down to the second law of thermodynamics. Kind of cringy, but it does have its applications.
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a meme that keeps getting applied where it does not belong.
>>8209545
I think I remember reading that the outcome of every Go game is decided within the first few moves.
Kinda pointless game desu.
>>8209034
If you think Beethoven is classical you're fucking retarded. He was a romanticist and a 'meh' one at that; you should try the Russians.
There's composers of beethovens caliber all over the Internet, hell, on fucking noteflight the neo-romantic composers are better.
You complain about a lack of supply, when in reality shit is just unfortunately inaccessible to you because you can't be bothered to look over the veil of a 30 second Google search
>>8209587
What is it with this board and the fucking Russians.
If it's not Dostoevsky/Tolstoy/etc, then it's Russian composers.
I'm convinced this board is full of culturally barren, modern-day Russkies who revel in their nation's former glory.
>>8209537
This
Also, has anyone here actually seen modern art beyond the entire 'Le abstract is shite xDDDD' meme? Go to a local gallery sometime and a lot of the work, particularly that wrought by technology and multimedia is unprecedented sublimity
>>8209587
Look out pleb Scandinavian master race coming through
>>8209596
>Go to a local gallery sometime and a lot of the work, particularly that wrought by technology and multimedia is unprecedented sublimity
If you have no soul, maybe.
>>8209594
Thanks for your bullshit equivalence
I've nothing to comment on the literary aspect of the Russians per se, but a lot of Russian arts were overshadowed by the Soviet Unions cultural disavowing of its past
And holy fuck just listen once to Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky and then compare that with Beethoven; concerto on concerto or sonata or sonata, it is simply on seperate levels of complexity and thus musicality
>>8209596
>unprecedented sublimity
kek
fucking plebs man
>>8209599
Fuck off Ivan.
Russia has no answer to Beethoven, Wagner, Bach, Brahms, etc.
Bach especially.
Enjoy the krokodil, it's clearly hampering your aesthetic taste.
>>8209598
Elaborate?
Modern visual art, in most fronts, is much more open to interpretation than their predecessors. That's he very definition of having a 'soul'
A lot of it actually blends together aspects of predecessing art styles and accentuates the best feelings incurred by all of them
>>8209599
>Rachmaninoff
WHOA, HE'S A VIRTUOSOS, DO YOU KNOW WHAT ETUDES ARE?
>Tchaikovsky
WHOA, THERE'S ACTUAL CANONS IN THE SONG
Let me know when you actually can comprehend Beethoven.
>>8209607
Art has been redefined: "The world around us, with all its imperfections, is actual beauty."
Implications:
1) Since the real world is "beautiful" (no exceptions), then everything can be art no matter how ugly it is.
2) Since everything can be art, skill is no longer a necessity.
3) Everyone can claim to be an artist, by virtue of (2)
4) Since everyone can be an artist, with no skill required, we have no objective standard with which to measure art.
Modern "art" is not art, but instead a competition to produce what is most ugly, mundane or outrageous. This experiment invariably fails, produces nothing of value; and indeed, produces nothing aside from the instinctual revulsion of our senses. What is the value of this?
We could have stopped this degeneration a hundred years ago, perhaps, but now it is too late.
>>8209604
>especially Bach
Stopped reading here Lmao
You're pulling more shit out your ass than /pol/ can in a day. Baroque music (Bach) is untenably more simpler in every measurable (in expressive techniques, tone colour, on the amount and conplexity of ornamentation a etc) than romanticism
>>8209613
Nice b8, even if it isn't you've provided no tangible argument
>2016
>not listening to the sound of the Devil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7rxl5KsPjs
>One night, in the year 1713 I dreamed I had made a pact with the devil for my soul. Everything went as I wished: my new servant anticipated my every desire. Among other things, I gave him my violin to see if he could play. How great was my astonishment on hearing a sonata so wonderful and so beautiful, played with such great art and intelligence, as I had never even conceived in my boldest flights of fantasy. I felt enraptured, transported, enchanted: my breath failed me, and I awoke. I immediately grasped my violin in order to retain, in part at least, the impression of my dream. In vain! The music which I at this time composed is indeed the best that I ever wrote, and I still call it the "Devil's Trill", but the difference between it and that which so moved me is so great that I would have destroyed my instrument and have said farewell to music forever if it had been possible for me to live without the enjoyment it affords me.[4]
>>8209624
>polyphonic articulation is simpler than melody
>pure music is simpler than impressionism aesthetics
You're the one baiting, my friend.
>>8209005
Be glad because it happened. Imagine if all that is beautiful that is available today was lost in the eternity of time.
>ctrl+f
>whitehead
>0 results
>trivium
>0 results
>quadrivium
>0 results
>loads of wankers talking about middle class taste
>ok
>ctrl+f
>sheridan
>0 results
>stanhope
>chesterfield
>0 results
ffs /lit/
>>8209640
like tears in the rain...
>>8209628
>This is not the greatest song in the world... this is just a tribute.
>>8209641
>middle class taste
Spotted the marxist.
Just couldn't help sterilizing culture, could ya? Putting it in class/monetary terms.
>>8209641
>>8209652
I'm sure we can end this pointless dispute in peace, I'll just cut both your opinions in half, and then throw each side into the trash, how's that sound to you?
>>8209030
You never did answer his question.
>>8209326
Many of us here like the idea of dying.
Mostly we like the idea of it happening to people like you.
>>8209674
My needs trump your needs, though.
You are my property, and you no longer have a hierarchy/pyramid of needs to tell me otherwise.
>>8209599
>he likes Rachmaninoffshit
kek
This is the same guy who thinks Beethoven is mediocre and that some random nobodies on Noteflight are better than him.
Romanticism is probably the worst period of Classical music.
>>8209679
>>8209674
Is this what /lit/ has come to?
>>8209689
Am I wrong?
>>8209692
>wrong
>right
You just spooked yourself
My only advice for little people like you is to re reread The Ego and It's Own
>>8209698
I'm not anxious, I know what I like.
I also know who is best, it's just a case of convincing the drugged-up Russophile.
>>8209702
Stirner is just a meme at this point, right?
>>8209692
Nice spool nerd
>>8209702
>Advice
Advice is only given to those whom you think are in some way incorrect, and therefore 'wrong'.
Looks like you too are operating within those very same confines.
Unspook yourself, I can see your ectoplasm from here.
>>8209710
>at this point
>>8209706
>post list of English education reformers
>get called a Russophile
You know Sheridan standardised English for a reason?
>>8209005
If you can entertain the notion that the classical/Western canon has survived because they contain eternal truths, then it can be conceived that modern and popular culture is concerned with ignoring, distracting, or obscuring these truths from us. This would raise the question of why this is the case. I have my own ideas, of course.
>>8209587
>Beethoven is classical
You're the worst kind of pedant: an incorrect one.
"I listen to Classical music" means you were listening to music in the "Classical" period of Western art music. Not Baroque, not Romantic, not Modern, etc.
"I listen to classical music" just denotes art music generally.
>Composers of Beethoven's caliber all over the Internet
>neo-romantic composers on fucking NOTEFLIGHT are better than a man universally agreed to be a transcendent genius of his artform
I want to see any one of them make something as inexorable as his late sonatas and string quartets. And that's just chamber music. Let alone the fucking symphonies.
You are a bad person, and I'm not going to engage with you. I hope you don't have a nice day.
>>8209712
>Advice is only given to those whom you think are in some way incorrect, and therefore 'wrong'.
Why? Can't you give advice just for the sake of it? Are you seriously this spooked?
>>8209724
>tripfag
>copyrighting ideas on a Dragon Ball Z discussion forum
INTO THE TRASH
YOU GO
>>8209728
>Can't you
Whose permission are you asking? Ours? Yourself?
Since you don't seem to know the answer to the question, and felt the need to ask it, we can conclude that you are still spooked by authority.
>>8209587
He actually didn't say the word "classical" in his post. Read the challenging fifteen words in it very carefully, you'll realize he didn't say the word, it took me a couple of reads to realize it, too. Good luck, man.
>>8209737
I was ASKING A QUESTION, NOT PERMISSION,which was directed to your creative nothing, but it seems it hasn't been awaken yet. Do try,next time, to put your spooks in rhyme.
>>8209587
AUTISM
>>8209748
Why are you asking a question? Do you not have total confidence in your own intelligence?
Sounds to me like you're spooked by the intelligence of others. Free of spooks, you would have no doubt about the verity of your own intelligence; no questions would ever be required.
>>8209755
>no questions would ever be required
>asks questions right at the beginning of his post
You are one spooky individual and you need to go back to the mainframe so you can be reconfigured, good luck. Spooker.
>>8209587
>Beethoven wasn't classical he was a romanticist
So how is your intro to music 101 class going? community college can be tough. hang in there!
>>8209760
My questions are rhetorical.
Yours was not.
>>8209775
Oh shit
>>8209166
>entropy = decline
lol sure is summer
>>8209619
>"The world around us, with all its imperfections, is actual beauty."
citation?
>3) Everyone can claim to be an artist, by virtue of (2)
this is the logical misstep. everything 'can' be art but not everything 'is' art -- what 'is' art depends on the context of the art world and its institutions. admission to the art world depends on the vetting of people who know of modern and contemporary art theory i.e. they have an 'objective' standard by which to measure art. these same people can apply standards to pre-modern art just the same.
modern/contemporary is theory- and context-based (in a meme sense, still much of this art is concerned with 'beauty').
There is absolutely nothing released in the past 16 years that comes close to Joyce, Proust, Faulkner, or any of the other greats of last century. Even taking into account all the other masterpieces released every decade from 1900s - 70s there is still nothing that comes close.
>>8209950
you've been spooked
>>8209953
can you prove me wrong?
even if there are still great novels there are no more masterpieces. The novel has reached its peak and became less relevant as an art form. The same could even be said about film after 90s or before
>>8209965
>can you prove me wrong?
probably not because i don't know what your standards are or how you developed them. that being said, i doubt you can prove yourself right either without reliance on fallacy.
>>8209587
just wanted to chime in saying you are one dumb motherfucker
>>8209636
this post has no logic
romanticism includes everything baroque does and more. the pure music and impressionism thing is meaningless
>>8209997
>romanticism is just ueber-baroque
you don't know what you're talking about. you seem to be broadly ignorant about music and history in general.
>>8209599
>not listening to the mighty handful over hack-kovsky
>>8210007
list the ways I am wrong. I have read the oxford history of western music and listen to classical about 3 hours daily. But I can always learn
>>8210029
>I've been involved in over 300 raids and i have over 56 kill confirmed...
>>8209167
Killing yourself is probably the best bet. What have you got to lose? Or gain.
>>8209131
>Artistic creations are all responses to the authors contemporary "climate", if they are relevant to that climate.
yes
>Certainly biases can likely be found that are remnants of their contemporary existence even in places where they should not, such as philosophy, but in most places, such as narratives, they can be found much more explicitly.
no. They are found everywhere. They are literally inescapable
>Now to the point: you can not feel robbed of something you have never experienced, and to say that any experience which has not been directly felt by the speaker can be compared is an even more preposterous concept.
no. This is your personal opinion phrased as a global statement
>In short- don't say the past was better than the present when you never experienced both,
what? Why?
>then even negating the effects of a false nostalgia,
doesn't make up words
>and realize that if you don't relate to modern concepts which are connected to the collective modern conscious
wtf are you talking about
>it is a result of the fact that you lack the mental faculties to,
the mental facilities to relate to the present collective modern conscious? And how exactly is that lost when you have grown up in it? And why is it even a bad thing to lose?
>as it is through a collective advancement of modern conscious that we have progressed.
Art never progresses. It merely changes. Science gets closer and closer to reality, we now even have the billionth degree of PI and can predict the angular velocity of a sattelite in 10 years. Art, on the other hand, just has these continous changes from (in the last 200 years) romanticism to modernism to postmodernism. One is not objectively better than the other. None of them have provided us with anything. Your analysis is such garbage.
So STFU about this shit, you don't know what you're talking about and saying shit you made up like it's fact is ridiculous.
>>8209582
Is that not the same aslife?
>>8209132
you think that anything mmodern can't be good ?
maybe you are dumb ?
I will say that there is an increasingly singularly modern viewpoint. People have decided that the past, whether it be 50 or 500 or 5000 years ago, can be wholly discounted under the assumption that the modern perspective in a given field is sufficiently advanced enough to render the past obsolete.
I will also say that we have made the lifestyles of the past seem needlessly cruel and unlivable by modern standards. With our propaganda - intended to make our lifestyle seem the most enlightened of all human history - serfs worked 24 hours per day, every soldier died of gangrene, kings were constantly ordering executions in cruel and unusual methods, and a pestilence like Black Plague was always ravaging the lands killing significant portions of the population. We have vilified the past, but we still have famine, violence, execution, and modern hardships like surveillance, rampant depression, morbid obesity, etc.
There is plenty to still be gained from the past. However, it's now harder than ever to consider these things. We are being overloaded with huge amounts of information, most of which amounts to inconsequential drivel. It would take a lifetime to pore over the information that we collect in even half a decade. We are drowning in it, and we may get further and further sucked into shortsightedness as a society.
>>8209599
you are retarded
>>8210206
>>8210258
I'm sick of you dumb fucking fools on this board, making responses like this. What the fuck do you know about the world, dumb fucking fool? You're a little chuckle fuck, you're just fucking around wasting my time. So go on and fuck off if you're really so dumb that you think I'm not being serious, a presumptuous little christian shit, or if you really are just a dumb fuck troll. Because let's be honest, if a christian were seriously as butthurt as he'd be to make a comment to me, it probably wouldn't be some trolly dumb fuck response like that.
>>8210265
Yeah but you are kind of retarded. Neither Rachmaninof nor Tchaikovsky have had the influence and genious of Beethoven.
>>8210317
maybe hold off talking about "genious" until after you've learned how to spell
>>8210206
As you say, the modern age is an age of abundant information, and material concerns. All of this harries, distracts and obscures us from the examination of ourselves which is necessary to reveal our wisdom of justice, equality and beauty.
And so in our unthinking, society accepts the mere imperfect copies of these truths, which are flawed. Thereby people think the modern epoch is the final word, and that we are better than the Sumerians, Greeks, and Romans. It follows, then, that society loses interest in their works.
>>8209207
I do most of my reading on the toilet. There's just something about being completely relaxed, the calming buzz of the fan, and simply reading with no care in the world at the time.
>>8210330
>>8210362
thankfully you didn't even make an argument, so that picture isn't relevant
>>8210371
Do you really want a pedantic argument for why beethoven is so important?
Here's the argument:
Beethoven is almost singlehandedly responsible for the evolution of music from the model of neo-classicism to romanticism, no other musician has profoundly influenced the media like he has. If you compare music as it was before he was born and 10 years after he died you'll find nothing short of a revolution. That's an accomplishment that neither Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninof can say they have under their belt
>>8210265
you are the dumb fucking fool you little chuckle fuck xD
>>8210448
new does not mean better
beethoven is more influential, incontestable but he is not more intelligent or more genius
>>8210362
Too bad buddy better luck next time!
What was your reading list, OP?
It's objectively true, contemporary art does not have a 'specific', all that is well made today is achieved by the either singular or syncretic emulation of former artistic movements and epochs.
>>8209587
holy shit this is bait but we cannot let our poor newfag lurkers think there is an ounce of truth in this post
>>8210448
>Beethoven is almost singlehandedly responsible for the evolution of music from the model of neo-classicism to romanticism
This is a lie.
>>8212281
lying through your teeth so matter of factly does not make your lie any less of a lie either, hillary
>>8209190
I also do a lot of channing on the throne
>>8209167
I feel the same also feel like calling myself a pretentious cunt so I lie to my friends and say I am doing something else besides the aforementioned activities so that I can pretend to be unpretentious. Even that sounds pretentious
>>8209619
There never has been an objective standard with we measure art
>>8209028
video games and burger king
