Can you understand philosphy without studying it at a college?
>>8192137
Can you really be called a shitposter if you wipe every time?
I can tell you, college makes it less work. Having a guy explain it to you as your reading it is a major plus.
Just jumping into philosophy feels like learning a new language unless you are really fucking smart.
You can only understand it if you vote leave and read Kierkegaard
>>8192152
Can't you just use those youtube series for that?
no you kant
>>8192157
just make a thread for anything you don't get, people on here will explain it to you
>>8192155
>vote leave
>Kierkegaard
Voting leave is as much a leap of faith as chancing a fart after a curry.
You might not shit your pants but you'll be getting a sore arse either way.
Yes, if you have discipline.
>>8192137
Yeah, but you'd be putting in the same work as a student regardless
>>8192174
I wonder if this board can manage a regular philosophy class without devolving into shitposting. Im actually interested in taking part in it
>>8193755
I'll make shure to destroy it with shitposts.
>>8193755
it's happened. we use trips to tell shitposts from real posts. the real problem is that a philosophy class is actually a lot of work because most people who study philosophy do so at a specialized level, and a for a 'regular' philosophy, you'd want an overview of various schools of thoughts so the class on plato would have to be thought by a different guy from the class on aquinas and so on.
>>8192137
>tfw born as an ethnic minority (Russian)
>have absolutely no knowledge in official language (Latvian)
>About to apply to philosophy degree
>Only one university in whole country that teaches philosophy and it is only availible in Latvian
>Pretty much accept that I will have to study everything off SEP because I could not tie two words in a language that I will be taught in university
I sure do hope it will be possible.
>without
>>8192137
Out of curiousity how are classes divided in philosophy courses? Is it just done by school of thought?
>>8193820
usually chronologically and building off influences
like roughly pre-socratic (skippable) > athenians > romans (often skipped) > christians (aquinas et al) > boring english fucks (rousseau, hume, etc) > kant > nobodies > hegel > marx > memes
>>8192137
yes
>>8193820
depends on what it is.
usually you have courses covering thinkers by era (ancient, medieval, modern, etc), subject (logic, phenomenology, epistemology, phil of __), sometimes big names get their own classes (Plato, Kant, etc), and a handful of once or rarely offered specialty topic courses
Pray for putin
leave latvia
go to sweden.
>>8193829
bleargh
usually it's a basic and advanced course for each of
aesthetics
ethics
metaphysics
philosophy of language
philosophy of mind
philosophy of science
epistemology
logic
maybe a few odd ones like phenomenology or philosophy of psychology, metaethics, maybe a specialised course on kant / hegel / heidegger
The most important thing that you can study in philosophy is logic in my opinion, because it is the tool that makes the rest of the work a hell of a lot easier.
>>8193883
>logic
>implying (kek) that Hegel didn't btfo that
Come to Lithuania to study philosophy, braliukas. I would help you.
>>8192152
>unless you are really fucking smart
I guess I was just lucky then :^)
>People didn't understand things before university/college
I swear to god, the biggest con of our time was to convince people that these institutions are in any way necessary to achieve higher learning.
So long as you follow Schopenhauer's advice (read good books & think at least as much as you read), you're all set.
>>8193815
best of luck friend.
i don't understand why anyone would want to study philosophy. is there a moment where something clicks and my mind is suddenly bettered by philosophy? why bother studying something that will not earn me money, isn't understood by 99% of the population (can't relate to others through it), and won't fix the deadness inside my soul?
>>8194430
you study because you like the subject
>>8194430
>why bother studying something that will not earn me money
>But how will rich people use your education to grow their wealth?
>isn't understood by 99% of the population (can't relate to others through it)
most fields of study aren't understood by anyone except those studying them.
>won't fix the deadness inside my soul?
that's what is preventing you from understanding why anyone would study philosophy in th first pace.
i was almost expelled from uni after a conflict with my philosophy professor, lol
>>8194459
what happened?
>>8193791
>we use trips to tell shitposts from real posts.
finally someone who understands that trip posts are shitposts
>>8194461 >>8194467
nothing really interesting, me and the prof disliked each other, on the exam we disagreed about the meaning of what world-view is and he gave me a bad mark, i was angry and filed an official complaint forgetting that i was in a vulnerable position since i was lazy and missed a couple of exams about other mandatory disciplines, he tried to make them get me expelled based on this but my biology department defended me (also they said me some not nice stuff about the whole situation)
>>8192137
What do you mean "understand philosophy"? It's an imprecise question.
>>8194486
>on the exam we disagreed about the meaning of what world-view is and he gave me a bad mark, i was angry and filed an official complaint
What
I'm actually shaking I'm so angry.
The tragedy is, most profs would have just given you a better grade and written a letter of apology for hurting your feewings, rather than actually defend themselves.
God I hate modern education. Was this US or the UK? I bet it was the UK since you said "uni", ugh. I hate this country.
>>8194494
>I'm actually shaking I'm so angry.
triggered lol
>>8194498
too fucking right
I really hope that tripfag is "trolling"
college is gay
>>8192137
You'll probably end up reading more secondary literature if we're being honest so it's very much possible.
>>8192137
You can self-study John Green's crash-course series and to be honest you'd probably get a more holistic view of things.
actually it is the only way. in college all you do is the history of philosophy.
>>8194494
>I'm actually shaking I'm so angry.
CALM DOWN SWEETHEART
>ugh
WHOA THERE PRINCESS
No. In university they'll push a magical hidden button that will make you a genius.
>>8193815
Latvian here.
You mean LU right? As far as I know RSU has a philosophy faculty as well. If you are of a more analytical bent, then LU might not be the best University for it as it is somewhat provincial and largely centred around Continental philosophy. It is also run by Kūle & Kūlis, the two of which are married and the two of which are veteran dick-suckers of Heidegger. But at least she had the pleasure of sitting at the same table with Quine and Hintikka: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/lv/d/db/Maija_kule_quine_hintikka.jpg
>tfw born as an ethnic minority
About 1/3 of Latvia are Russians. Probably 50% (of all populace) or more are able to decent speak Russian. Why are you complaining?
>have absolutely no knowledge in official language
How is it possible to live in a country for 18+ years and not be able to pick up basic conversational-level Latvian?
>>8194522
Don't do this for the love of god. There are way better youtube resources for learning philosophy
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9q95Bh0R6aS8c1ZLMMmVPg/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3OwIV5oro
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCntZM3wxPFK7ffzuTxHz1AA
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh613185XS3ttEUA8UYnPuw
https://www.youtube.com/user/ConsciousnessOnline/videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChHebUT7dtZ_H6m2DUG70jQ
https://www.youtube.com/user/WirelessPhilosophy/videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGVHC4L6gjS13AMe-JMOjHg
If you want an overview of the history of philosophy you'd be better of reading Russel's big book of shade. Better than the crash course shit at any rate.
>I think I need an expensive institution that is usually full of hoops and bullshit to teach me things I can learn from going to a library.
>>8194494
>I'm actually shaking I'm so angry.
>feewings
>ugh
you tell em sister! girl power! yayyyyy
>>8194985
>expensive
>>8192137
Like >>8194493 I doubt the relevance of "understanding".
Anyway, you can study philosophy alone, but it will be much more harder (and I believe many take the risk of staying on a epistemic level : I agree / I disagree). You can study at university and have shitty teachers, that happens.
You can also find good teachers who'll show you that philosophy is about learning to read
Another upshot (I expect) of university philosophy is that it will force you to actually write on a variety of topics in a serious fashion, i.e. not just shitposting your first impression on a topic. I know it isn't necessarily the case that autodidacts will not engage with philosophical writing but it will be required of a collegiate population. Out of curiosity, how many here are Nietzschean philosophers that regularly write essays or whatever they would deem worthy of philosophical consideration?
>>8195002
>epistemic level : I agree / I disagree
You can agree about something but at the same time be factually wrong about it. I don't think (dis)agreement should be associated with epistemology at all. You should have written "I know that / I didn't know that".
>>8194914
>You mean LU right?
Yeah.
>As far as I know RSU has a philosophy faculty as well.
Hmm, where? I could not find it in the "Fakultates" tab on their website(pic related). Furthermore, LU claims to be the only university to teach philosophy in Latvia:
"Vēstures un filozofijas fakultāte ir vienīgā vieta Latvijā, kur filozofiju studē akadēmiskā studiju programmā"
>If you are of a more analytical bent, then LU might not be the best University for it as it is somewhat provincial and largely centred around Continental philosophy
Yeah, I personally almost reject Continental philosophy and I've noticed that there are too many optional courses on Continental side (like, the whole bachelor courses on structuralism/post-structuralism, depth psychology, Hegel and "Truth and Method") but barely any courses that are of interest to Analytical philosophy, either historically (save for courses on Kant and Hume) or directly (save for courses on Kuhn and philosophy of language). Oh well, it's not like I've got a lot of choice, right?
>It is also run by Kūle & Kūlis, the two of which are married and the two of which are veteran dick-suckers of Heidegger. But at least she had the pleasure of sitting at the same table with Quine and Hintikka: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/lv/d/db/Maija_kule_quine_hintikka.jpg
That's pretty interesting.
>About 1/3 of Latvia are Russians. Probably 50% (of all populace) or more are able to decent speak Russian. Why are you complaining?
It's only a problem to me because I might be unable to handle university in something other than Russian or English.
>How is it possible to live in a country for 18+ years and not be able to pick up basic conversational-level Latvian?
Well, up until about 12-14 I was pretty nationalistic and pretty much almost refused to study Latvian, so my Latvian turned out to be far below average(especially regarding garumzime stuff, I just barely comprehend it).
I live in a part of Riga (Mezciems) made up almost entirely out of Russians where I can afford to study, go outside, do everyday stuff and make friends using only Russian. I never had a single Latvian friend nor a single full conversation in Latvian. I can understand most of frequently used words and I can use Latvian to say basic stuff like "Cik laiks?", "Vai jus var man palidzet?" or "Sveiki!" not nothing beyond that. Believe me or not Latvians and Russians for the most part are really tightly isolated from each other despite proximity so my situation is not unique.
can you understand a language without studying its grammar?
'understanding' something can only be done by learning to do it, to live it. the kid learning language doesnt need to study its structure, but simply be around those who speak. the mind does the rest. how? that is irrelevant for the learning process and it can only be speculated on much later.
you can learn something new, not by a conscious effort (for how could you do it if the new stuff is out of you consciousness?) but by putting your mind in that state where it becomes permeable to new structures, to new patterns needed for something practical.
only those who need philosophy will be able to understand it and use it. those who dont need it can surely do something of it, but it will simply be like someone who lives in a small village and gets a car.
>>8192137
Almost any knowledge is reachable if you're curious enough.
I'd say that if you're already into history, philosophy come with it, and that's my case.
>>8195037
Though that wasn't exactly my point... It was more about a necessary épochè (so a matter of not succumbing to the urge of agreeing or disagreeing (kind of what >>8195028 said).
I don't think it's a matter of "I know that / I don't know that" that one must have overtaken when reading — anyway a good text doesn't let you think once and for all : "I know that, it's acquired". The stance of non-knowledge is totally assumed here. It's rather a propensity to "morally" judge the validity of a text (so an attribution of epistemic value, from one's point of view), which avoids giving the text a chance.
>>8194948
>Sifting through old men masturbating over Wittgenstein's personal life
No thanks. Crash course actually supplies the relevant information.
>>8194430
>best of luck friend.
Thank you.
>i don't understand why anyone would want to study philosophy. is there a moment where something clicks and my mind is suddenly bettered by philosophy? why bother studying something that will not earn me money, isn't understood by 99% of the population (can't relate to others through it), and won't fix the deadness inside my soul?
Somewhere along the life path I simply understood that philosophy is the only thing in this world I am passionate about and nothing much besides philosophy brings me joy.
>>8195160
So the only link you checked was the one with an embed option that links to a channel which discuss more than just Wittgenstein (had you thought to look you would know that) and concluded that I had dumped a bunch of useless information. You're hardly refuting my claim that crash course fans will make for bad philosophers. Nice hasty generalization, pity you aren't as quick on the uptake
>>8192137
You can understand basically any branch of thinking without university. University just makes it more systematic and easy.
>>8194498
>>8194869
>>8194993
>/lit/ in charge of reading comprehension
>>8195087
I must have confused it with this department: http://www.rsu.lv/humanitaro-zinatnu-katedra
Not sure what role it plays in RSU, but some of the names that are associated with it are relatively well-known in the Latvian landscape of Philosophy; Sīlis and Neiders, for example, are active on satori.lv and other sites, even though I almost never read the former (tons of pretentious crap in there) and in general am wholly ignorant of Philosophy in Latvia. The intersection of "Philosophy" and "Latvia" is close to being an empty set for me.
>Yeah, I personally almost reject Continental philosophy and I've noticed that there are too many optional courses on Continental side (like, the whole bachelor courses on structuralism/post-structuralism, depth psychology, Hegel and "Truth and Method") but barely any courses that are of interest to Analytical philosophy, either historically (save for courses on Kant and Hume) or directly (save for courses on Kuhn and philosophy of language). Oh well, it's not like I've got a lot of choice, right?
Last time I checked there was a decent course on Mathematical Logic taught by Skilters (he's an analytic guy interested in cognitive science that rebelled against Kūle & Kūlis some time ago and felt that their influence showed to be too strong for him to introduce some interesting changes in the Continental-infested curriculum at the time) who also runs this thing: http://cognition.lu.lv/. So not all is lost. You can see what kind of courses he teaches on his personal webpage: http://blogi.lu.lv/jskilt/teaching/.
>That's pretty interesting.
They also co-authored an introductory book to Philosophy in Latvian (http://www.zvaigzne.lv/lv/gramatas/apraksts/631-filosofija.html). There too shines their Continental biases and leanings.
>It's only a problem to me because I might be unable to handle university in something other than Russian or English.
Seeing how bad the climate is in Latvia for studying Philosophy, why not pick something else, something entirely different? Go into Computer Science and you won't have to worry about future employment. If you're determined enough, you can study Philosophy on the side. Computer Science in fact has had plentiful of fruitful interactions with some of the branches of Analytic Philosophy, so you're in good hands. Plus, LU is not the only University offering it, so you might get to study it in Russian or English.
>Well, up until about 12-14 I was pretty nationalistic and pretty much almost refused to study Latvian, so my Latvian turned out to be far below average(especially regarding garumzime stuff, I just barely comprehend it).
That's what you get for not committing īt-ināt-ināties to your memory. :^)
>"Vai jus var man palidzet?"
You could easily pull this off in Kurzeme. They tend to ignore suffixes of many words when they pronounce them.
>>8194948
I like https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9ff15w4ufviWfv9UfIuByA/videos
>>8195356
New to me, will check out. Thanks anon.
>>8195328
Dude how do you still not understand trolling
>>8195317
>Go into Computer Science and you won't have to worry about future employment.
Yeah, but on the other hand you'll be studying fucking Computer Science.
You can't just shit STEM onto everybody. I've seen loads of threads and comments where people say how miserable they are because they forced themselves into CS for the money, when they hated the whole subject.
Then again, he is into analytical, so maybe it's his kind of thing.
High level knowledge/ability in philosophy comes from treating it like a full-time job for several years and being forced to push past stuff that interests you ("What did Plato have to say about free will?") into stuff that you do because it's one of 65,000 building blocks necessary to ask souped-up versions of the questions that originally interested you ("I have to learn logic to clarify my thinking and be able to read the 8529 existing interpreters of this subject", "I have to learn Italian so I can read this Italian guy's ideas about my now incredibly specific project about neo-Thomist free will"), eventually, if you are lucky, and if you don't don't get lost along the way. If you are one of an extremely lucky few, you might be able to aim for a really great original contribution to philosophy some time down the line.
If you just want to know about philosophy, it's easy enough to teach yourself with a few years of disciplined reading. But if you want to be a philosopher, you pretty much have to devote a significant portion of your life to it, whether in college or without.
>>8194430
>i don't understand why anyone would want to study philosophy
I believe that people should study it, write on it, and discuss it with others, because it helps everyone involved better understand themselves, their own values, and how each of their values stack up against one another.
>>8195378
No shit. That's why you're called a philosoph*er* -- it's what you do.
>>8195385
Anyone who is trying to understand philosophy is engaging in philosophy and is in some sense a philosopher. The distinction isn't as clear as someone saying
>I want to learn about electricity, but I don't want to be an electrician.
OP also implied he wants to learn it to a college degree standard, i.e. a professional standard by definition.
Ironically, studying semantics might help to preempt your pedantry in situations like these.
>>8195378
Not OP but thanks
>>81944430
>>8193815
Why not just read philosophy in your spare time and pursue a degree that will actually earn you money such as engineering?
>>8192137
All university teaches you is how to interpret the work and how to apply critical techniques and thinking to it. This is the same with almost all creative subjects. The knowledge is out there, but you are taught very succinctly how to understand and apply it at university. If you feel you can pursue that yourself on your own time, you can attain the same level of understanding, but it'll take longer without being shown the way and you will never truly know if you have achieved anything meaningful.
>>8192137
you see it in nature.
>>8195548
A university also gives you a guaranteed opportunity to discuss topics with seasoned veterans and other newbies alike. You get a very wide breadth of varying interpretations of any given bit of text.
You can certainly discuss things online with others, but misinterpretations and misunderstandings of what others are saying are so much easier to encounter when conversing exclusively through text.
>>8194381
Would you help me if I came?
>>8192137
Very few can.
I was lucky enough to be gifted with an intellect decent enough to start going in depth at the mere age of 10 and of course now I eclipse most people. I may be autistic though, which is what allowed me to be so proficient at it.
>>8192137
understanding philosophy is exactly like being good at DOTA: it makes you feel important but it's really fucking useless.
>>8192152
>unless you are really fucking smart
oo that made me feel all nice inside
>>8195790
You definitely are autistic, anon, but that's okay
>>8192137
SOPHIE'S WORLD BY JOSTEIN GAARDER
IT'S AN INTRODUCTORY COURSE ON PHILOSOPHY DISGUISED AS A NOVEL
>>8193891
>2016
>he thinks that Hegel has ever said anything clever
Modern philosohopy is fucking shit
I gave up on my exam on Sloterdijk 'cause it made no fucking sense and it was wankery of the highest degree imaginable
I don't give a fuck if there's an explanation, it's like looking at modern art where you're supposed to appreciate a smear of shit on a blank canvas or you're not smart enough
fuck everything past the Greeks
>>8196003
Calm down pal, take it again slowly
>>8194948
I'm surprised you didn't include this channel
https://www.youtube.com/user/gbisadler/videos
