'The Library of Babel' - Jorge Luis Borges:
>I have just written the word “infinite”.' I have not interpolated this adjective out
of rhetorical habit; I say that it is not illogical to think that the world is infinite.
Those who judge it to be limited postulate that in remote places the corridors and
stairways and hexagons can conceivably come to an end--which is absurd.
Those who imagine it to be without limit forget that the possible number of books
does have such a limit.
Does it really, though? How can the number of books in the Library be finite if the possible combinations of letters can always be increased by adding more letters, words, and pages, ad infinitum.
At some point the books won't fit on the shelves anymore
>>8157655
The books are all exactly 401 pages, which leads me to believe that they're all split up into different volumes.
>>8157658
410* pages, sorry
>>8157661
If they're all exactly 410 pages, and let's say a page fits 500 letters, and a letter can only be chosen from the alphabet, then you can have only 500*410*26 combinations
>>8157666
yes: it's finite
nope: a little bit more than that
>>8157666
No, that's not how it works. The Library contains every single book that can possibly exist in the universe (including the book that is the perfect compendium of all other books in the Library). In other words, it contains every possible combination of the 23 letters. Each volume is 410 pages, but there obviously are a lot of books that exceed this limit, so I assume they're broken up into many different volumes (like, for instance, Infinite Jest Vol I, II, and so on).
The problem is that there can be no limit to the number of letters or words or paragraphs or even pages in a book. This, of course, means that the books must be as infinite as the Library, contrary to what Borges says.
>>8157675
>The problem is that there can be no limit to the number of letters or words or paragraphs or even pages in a book
The story specifically says that every tome has a set amount of pages.
>>8157675
>there are rules!!!
>but there are no rules!!!!!
well if the rules don't count then it can be infinite, then there can be a whole section where all books have been tattooed on the eye-lids of African ex-prostitute hippos
>>8157666
++
going with your estimation of 410 pages & 500 letters per page, you can have 26^(500*410) different books
>>8157681
then again there is no indication that books don't recur, so it says nothing about an infinite library, iirc
>>8157677
Every tome, yes, but if that meant every *book*, then how would you ever fit the Bible in the Library? It would have to be broken up into tomes of 410 pages, wouldn't it?
>>8157686
It does, actually. It says very clearly in the text that the Library contains only one copy of every book. Have you even read the story?
>>8157698
>It says very clearly in the text that the Library contains only one copy of every book. Have you even read the story?
You have revealed your ignorance, now I know you are a pleb
>>8157705
>Five hundred years ago, the chief of an upper hexagon [2] came upon a book as confusing as the others, but which had nearly two pages of homogeneous lines. He showed his find to a wandering decoder who told him the lines were written in Portuguese; others said they were Yiddish. Within a century, the language was established: a Samoyedic Lithuanian dialect of Guarani, with classical Arabian inflections. The content was also deciphered: some notions of combinative analysis, illustrated with examples of variations with unlimited repetition. These examples made it possible for a librarian of genius to discover the fundamental law of the Library. This thinker observed that all the books, no matter how diverse they might be, are made up of the same elements: the space, the period, the comma, the twenty-two letters of the alphabet. He also alleged a fact which travelers have confirmed: In the vast Library there are no two identical books.
>>8157709
And you read that too literally. You're as bad as those christians who think the earth was created in 7 days.
*fips tedora*
>>8157730
Why is /r/circlejerk here?
>>8157698
>Have you even read the story?
yes
>>8157698
It's clearly meant that "books" and "tomes" mean the same and grouping several tomes into a single book is an arbitrary act. You could as well claim that all the tomes taken together constitute a single book.
>>8157789
I disagree, but since the story itself is vague on this point there is nothing for us to do but disagree. I reiterate my original question: how can the number of books in the Library be finite?
>>8157795
If we're to discount slight differences, then on a cosmic scale the unique population of the earth would be one.
>>8157652
I posture. that there can be a book that references other libraries and other books, therefore those books being possible of existence.
TL;DR I dont know what im talking about but this is one of my favorite Borges joints, Las Ruinas Circulares as well.
>>8157652
>>8157675
Interesting point. Somehow everyone here is too dumb to understand it or something, or they haven't read it. Your argument indeed proves it has to be infinite. That's only if we can trust the information Borges provides us though. And if books are divided into multiple volumes (which you can argue for and against). Maybe the books in world they live in only have 401 pages? Doesn't make much sense though.
Anyway, the narrator struggles to understand the library as well. He refuses to believe it is infinite, but he hasn't presented, nor do I think he is able to present, such inferences you made. The argument relies on the certainty of the assumptions you make. That's also the problem he is confronted with: the impossibility of ever witnessing the end of the library, of verifying their theories of the library.
>>8157675
>>8159180
How is a book divided into several volumes different from several books containing the exact same text as each volume? No matter how long a book really is, it will have to use volumes / portions of text which are already by definition included in the library. Unless you want to make up different rules enforcing duplication and shelf placement in those cases, your concern is definitional, and you're looking for infinity in combinations without defined boundaries. I guess the page and duplication limits do imply that the library only covers books with an amount of 410-pages-long repeating sections limited to what can be done without having duplicate volumes. So, no infinite books.
Library of Babel
Library of Babble
I GOT IT GUYS
>>8157652
The amount of total possible books is countably infinite, literally because it's ordered so it can't be uncountably infinite or higher, and it's not finite because you can add a sentence to the longest book and thus create a unique book.
The idea that there's an upper limit on amount of symbols in each book + that all volumes are unique + library contains every possible book is contradictory, though, because if you create an upper limit on a number of symbols in a volume there is a finite number of permutations.
>>8159863
