Why isn't Goethe mentioned here more often, or read by the public at large? And even though writers like Gene Wolfe are memed here, I'm pretty sure Wolfe is still considered hipster-tier. Yet on /lit/, Wolfe is still mentioned at least 3 times more often than Goethe.
cause /lit/ is filled with pseuds.
prepare for people telling you goethe is overrated anf faust is garbage
Because his works are just so fucking obvious.
What is there interesting to talk about in Faust, Werther, Elective Affinities, Wilhelm Meister?
You just fucking read about them, acknowledge he was a titan, then move on.
The Faust story was done better by Marlowe and even in German better by Mann. I think not many people on here read German.
The sorrows of young werther is good.
He is mentioned here about as much as is deserved (about once every couple days).
Wolfe is probably the best in a certain type of writing (literary fantasy) so is mentioned anytime that type of writing is discussed.
>>8155393
case in point: a retard
I actually think it's a good thing for him he's not discussed here.
>>8155404
fair point desu
Wolfe is mentioned 20 times more, for sure.
The reason I for one mention Wolfe is because he's my favorite writer and I've only read Werther from Goethe, which was not bad, but nothing which I feel the need to mention. I don't harbor love for him.
Wolfe is contemporary and is the best you can find in science fiction and fantasy, which is an interesting genre to 20 something years olds, compared to melodramatic sorrows of a 18th century German.
I didn't read Faust, it's pretty long and german isn't a language discussed often in general.
Maybe if people started making buzz, or shilled him more he'd see more discussion.
who /faustistic/ here?
>>8155596
>5 of Goethe's Faust
Why?
>>8155596
Because Germans can't into poetry, it's that simple.
The reason they were so musically prolific is because music does not require language; least of all the shitty German language.
>>8155596
huh
>>8155644
>The reason they were so musically prolific
Name literally one good german composer
>>8155644
>>8155652
Guter Köder, meine Freunde.
>>8155652
Found the Austrian pedant.
Nonetheless, Wagner is GREAT.
>>8155664
>Austrians
>not German
Anyway, Germany has the three B's (Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms)
>>8155688
>Bach
Hungarian
>Beethoven
Spanish
>Brahms
Shit
>>8155644
>hates Holderlin
KEK
>>8155652
is this profound ignorance or profound contrarianism
Ludwig van Beethoven
>>8155372
In my experience with boards like /lit/, the less a good author, movie, book, etc. is mentioned the better because then threads about those subjects will only attract people genuinely interested and who want to contribute. You don't want your favourite author to become a meme.
>>8155697
>>Bach
>Hungarian
>>Beethoven
>Spanish
>>Brahms
>Shit
Dumbest shit I read in days. This doesn't even warrant a refutation.
>>8155737
>getting baited
>>8155596
I'll probably get at least half of those when I rebuild my library from the ashes, as well as a self-printed vanilla bilingual edition.
I've looked around for critical essays better than the mixed bag from Norton. As tends to be the case, I'll likely end up concrescing dispersed criticism. That there isn't an standard authoritative collection of criticism is an itch I need to scratch.
>>8155596
Beautiful
>>8155399
>The Faust story was done better by Marlowe
"No"
Goethe vs Wolfe...
Are these the same posters that refer to Harold Bloom as an authority? Cause that wouldn't make any sense at all.
>>8156031
Why is no in quotation marks? Is this some sort of ironic disagreement?
Weil niemand hier Deutsch gut genug kann um Goethe und seine Sprachkunst wirklich zu schätzen. Sein Wortwitz geht in der Übersetzung einfach verloren. Es ist als ob du Shakespeare übersetzen würdest.
>>8156100
does bloom say anything about wolfe?
>>8155393
>there are people who think like this
>>8156451
NDT
>>8156451
A certain Wolf was sexually encroached by him, and Bloom does talk about Tom Wolfe, but so far, nothing on Gene Wolfe.
In his version of the canon, Bloom does include the work that his fanfic is modeled on, as well as sophisticated speculative fiction from the Pole and the fairy watcher, but Wolfe's merits are parallel to those authors, so even if Wolfe isn't in the canon, he has the essential distinctions to be in the canon.
>>8156476
wolf is full of shit and essentially backtracked on her allegation, admitting it was more or less a play for news and media fame
>>8156903
Need sauce on that
I can believe that she's full of shit but still
>>8155596
I've always heard TMaM and Under the Volcano are faust retellings and they're among my favorite novels. I've never even read Goethe's, but it makes me excited to read both his and The Recognitions.
>>8156964
oh shit i have under the volcano too though i haven't read it, forgot to put it in the pic
>>8155372
>Why isn't Goethe mentioned here more often, or read by the public at large?
Because people on this board do not read, let alone read Goethe. What were you expecting with this question?
>>8157104
Goethe is mentioned 25 times daily with ease.
>>8157126
And how much of that discussion on Goethe is either correct, unbiased, or productive?
>>8157155
I don't know or care. That wasn't what you were whining about. Both you and the OP need to open your eyes a bit.
>>8155372
Faust = The Book of Job
Anybody else notice this?
>>8155596
You're missing an important one.,
>>8157160
>whining
Why talk about him when everyone here has read Faust already?
Everyone's read it, right?
>>8157190
fucking idiot
>>8157190
Anon, you may want to sit down for this, but I've something I must tell you about /lit/....
>>8157171
That's a stretch.
>>8157190
ahhh to be young and naive again...
>>8157205
It's not even close. Kinda like saying Lazy Town is Faustian, no connection.
>>8157212
well, there's a slight connection, the deal that satan has with god for an easy one.
>>8155636
t. reclam verlag master race
>>8157179
He's actually missing at least 4 more, friend. Though their connections are more tenuous than Gaddis'.
I didn't mention it before because I've talked to him before, and he actually knows two things or three about literature. So he's probably aware of it, and anyhow his collection is more than good enough.
N-God mentions him all of the time and we mention N-God therefore Goethe is mentioned frequently.
I sometimes post the Conversations with Eckermann: you can really see there why Goethe was such a towering man of his time, it's absolutely great. Highly recommended even though you'd need a bit of an idea of Goethe's life and contemporaries to understand what he's talking about (i.e., read a biography first - I liked Safranski's)i just wish he would have stopped memeing his retarded color theory all the time
>>8156140
This desu
>>8156140
Eh, Goethe himself wrote about how great the Shakespeare translations into German are, and was often happy with the translations of his works by others:
>Die erwähnte Übersetzung von Gérard, obgleich größtenteils in Prosa, lobte Goethe als sehr gelungen. »Im Deutschen«, sagte er, »mag ich den ›Faust‹ nicht mehr lesen; aber in dieser französischen Übersetzung wirkt alles wieder durchaus frisch, neu und geistreich.
From aforementioned Conversations with Eckermann
>>8157711
This definitely not d e s u!
It's like saying Voltaire's wit is lost in translation, yet Voltaire is as uproariously hilarious in English as Swift. Goethe is no exception.
>>8157727
>the Gérad translation, although largely in prose
>prose
get the fuck outta here lmfao
>>8157740
If your empty meme-posting would disappear this board would improve
I've seen your post a thousand times now, it's really neither interesting nor funny
>>8157727
>Habe nun, ach! Philosophie,
>Juristerei und Medizin,
>Und leider auch Theologie!
>Durchaus studiert, mit heißem Bemühn.
>Da steh ich nun, ich armer Tor!
>und bin so klug als wie zuvor;
>Ah! Now I’ve done Philosophy,
>I’ve finished Law and Medicine,
>And sadly even Theology:
>Taken fierce pains, from end to end.
>Now here I am, a fool for sure!
Neger, bitte.
And he said himself the translations made it something else. He perhaps enjoyed it. But it's still different.
>>8157737
Can't comment on Voltaire because my French ain't good enough to say if nuanced things got lost in translation.
But with Goethe they certainly do.
>>8157765
PS:
Forgot:
>No wiser than I was before:
>>8157765
It's neither Goethe's nor the translator's fault that you can't read English
>>8157774
I'm native in both languages.
>>8157765
>And he said himself the translations made it something else. He perhaps enjoyed it. But it's still different.
Fine enough friend, I'm by no means an expert on any sort of literature, but can you explain the specifics of what nuance is lost? I encounter complaints about Lovecraft's prose too often here, and it never gets past the superficial (I've checked the archives). Almost nobody on /lit/ who's opened their non-literal mouths about Lovecraft's prose knows what they're talking about.
For one of Voltaire's famous quips, stupidités -> stupidities, and this runs parallel to humanités -> humanities, so the essence of the pun is retained. Some of Voltaire's longer winded rants were emended into pithy comments in their English renditions, so in some cases, Voltaire is actually improved in English.
>>8157788
10 minutes later, no answer from that translation-dismissing anon. As usual on /lit/: empty posturing
>>8157788
For instance in the example I've posted, the flow is obviously different.
"Durchaus studiert, mit heißem Bemühn," implies passionate study, while "Taken fierce pains, from end to end," makes it sound like he forced himself through it, looking for something specific.
"Da steh ich nun, ich armer Tor!
und bin so klug als wie zuvor;"
That line flows so fucking well, it's remembered by every German who ever picked up the book. It's clever.
In the German version it is more lamenting, straight up calling himself "a poor fool". In the following line means "he is as smart/knowledgable as he was before", rather than "not having gained wisdom".
Generally in ther Geman version it gives more the impression of a true scholar, who laments in reflection on how pointless it all was. How he gained nothing.
In the English version, it gives the impression of a man who (almost reluctantly) studied all the topics in pursuit of true wisdom and failed each step of the way.
Again, nuances. But I feel it paints a very different picture of the character.
Perhaps that is interesting in its own right. But to me at least both versions have very different feels to them.
>>8157819
PS:
I should probably also point out that most of the appreciation for Goethe stems from him being among the few who managed to execute a very organic rhythm with the German language without making it flowery or simplifying the language used. (So perhaps a comparison to Wilde would be more accurate.)
And that is obviously something you can't just translate into another language. I find the meta-awareness of just how clever some lines are, is half the fun of reading Goethe.
>>8157819
That's a nice interpretation - although you're missing that the "Ach!" implies regret, which some of the translators have picked up (somewhere in this thread it went from "translations are bad" to "translations are different", which I agree with, then again who wouldn't), however the English version you posted is weird - it seems to be from an A S Kline, who seems to run an online free web version of... his own translations?
As a comparison of what English translation can also do, here's a different translation from 1856: (http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/14460/pg14460-images.html)
>Faust. Have now, alas! quite studied through
>Philosophy and Medicine,
>And Law, and ah! Theology, too,
>With hot desire the truth to win!
>And here, at last, I stand, poor fool!
>As wise as when I entered school;
No forced labor, but "passionate study".
Here's a more recent version from David Luke, 1987:
>Well, that’s Philosophy I’ve read,
>And Law and Medicine, and I fear
>Theology too, from A to Z;
>Hard studies all, that have cost me dear.
>And so I sit, poor silly man,
>No wiser now than when I began.
"Poor silly man" is even more lamenting than "armer Tor"
Another recent one, Stuart Atkins:
>FAUST. I’ve studied now, to my regret,
>Philosophy, Law, Medicine,
>and—what is worst—Theology
>from end to end with diligence.
>Yet here I am, a wretched fool
>and still no wiser than before.
Forced labor, more regret
Another old one, Bayard Taylor, 1908:
>FAUST
>I’ve studied now Philosophy
>And Jurisprudence, Medicine —
>And even, alas! Theology —
>From end to end, with labor keen;
>And here, poor fool! with all my lore
>I stand, no wiser than before:
A bit of regret, but a labor of love
(https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/g/goethe/faust/complete.html)
These are the only four English versions I could readily find - yours isn't a particularly good translation IMHO
>>8157860
Philip Wayne
>Philosophy have I digested
>The whole of Law and Medicine
>From each its secrets I have wrested
>Theology, alas, thrown in
>Poor fool, with all this sweated lore,
I stand no wiser than I was before.
>>8157860
>although you're missing that the "Ach!" implies regret,
Actually "Ach!" is related more to annoyance. It can also be used dismissively. But not really "regret", exactly.
I think "Ah!" is fine as a translation, depending in how you read it.
>somewhere in this thread it went from "translations are bad" to "translations are different"
I never said that. I took the position that the reason /lit/ has less appreciation for Goethe than his fame (in Germany) would imply about his quality, is mostly based on the fact the specific prose and poetry are what made him an important German author in the first place and that just doesn't translate.
And I'm sure you know yourself that each example you posted all have their short comings.
i.e.:
>and ah! Theology, too,
Misses the underhand stab at theology.
>and I fear Theology too, from A to Z;
That's just odd. But at least it has the stab.
>and—what is worst—Theology
Too strong and the joke is lost.
>And even, alas! Theology
Probably the closest, but misses the negative connotation.
>Theology, alas, thrown in
Entirely different.
As for your examples:
>With hot desire the truth to win!
Too up-beat. Doesn't encompass the social aspect of scholarly study being anything but expected. Also sounds like he once was super hyped about it all and was crushed by it all. Something not really in the original.
>And so I sit, poor silly man,
Definitely closer. Pretty good, actually.
>from end to end with diligence.
Meh. Again, closer. The "durchaus" has more of a justifying tone.
>From end to end, with labor keen;
Same here, but "with labor keen" nails it.
I could go into the other lines but I can't be bothered. Again, this isn't about the translated versions being bad or anything. Just that a imho significant thing that made Goethe Goethe is lost. And at times meaning are changed entirely, especially of the implicit nature.
Thanks for the translations fellas, I was going to copypasta Luke as a base text.
>>8157819
David Luke's (henceforth DL; if I used Luke, I'd keep imagining Skywalker huddled over a translation desk) version has a pleasant rhythm, and is equivalently salient in English as per your criteria, in addition to occasionally being more heartfelt. As for line 357, the translation is distinct, but not unachievable in English. That goes for your criticisms for the other translations as well. A translator could very well do a parallel translation for emotional effects in English, but the languages house different emotive adaptations to the world, so the disparate effects are in alignment with their respective languages, and anyhow the major meaning is kept. At any rate, the emotions invoked in the English translation of line 357 have more similitude with Faust's early melancholy. DL's English translation works in a different direction, but retains the original's essential magnitude and eminence.
Goethe adapted the Faust myth from local legends, and his psyche influenced the character's traits, and vice versa. DL also shapes the work, and interact with the root as well; Goethe is not the exclusive mouth of Faust, and the legend is always changing shape. Moreover, while the Faust drama is a complete work, Goethe, towards the end of his life, was still mentally revising Faust, especially part 2. And if it's worth noting, Goethe retained misprints in Faust that he found aesthetically pleasing, in subsequent editions.
Regarding emotions invoked, if Faust were too stoically objective about his situation, his portrayal of Goethe's psyche would not be as relatable, rendering his characterization stale. The German does sound more authoritative and is could be regarded as a facet of difficult German philosophy, but the English is more impassioned and makes Faust sound more human, preserving his personality without reducing him to trite whining. And this emendation is more relevant to modern readers, apropos to the current infallible pseudocracy, which Hegel can be guilted much for. If posturers try to hand wave their skill as effortless, then this inversion of the habit is better attuned to silly humans coping with the burden of infinite knowledge.
>>8158005
Continued:
Concerning aspects of the German language, I do feel that German is a beautiful language, but English's sounds are more normalized on the global scale, and everything else being equal, the average person will be less frightened listening to English's sounds than German's relatively cacophonous sounds. Organic and skillful as Goethe's German may have been, German, and its styles, is just one language of many to exhibit the Faust legend, so the point is Christopher Poole. Furthermore, modern research sustained in English, alloyed with pseudo intellectualism, as it unavoidably is, currently gives English a more authoritative standing for the Faustian struggle of infinite knowledge. The original context in south Germany had already been mythologized in the local language, Goethe compounding the trend, so English versions are just further entries, and English is by no means less civilized than German.
Instead of placing German's merits on a pedestal, we should at least partially unveil what taste entails. Indeed, works of art mean different things to different people. People are hardly objective, and no two people are exactly identical, nor do works of art evoke identical responses for any two people. So taste is arbitrary, and no argument about taste is soluble, especially not in terms of the nebulous realm of language. So while Faust is originally in German, the English language, having more speakers, particularly fine scholars of repute, furthermore does more to preserve man's repository of knowledge. And hence reading Faust, in English, in modern times, has more continuity with Faust's theme of epistemological struggle, German being first to perform in this aspect, and not necessarily inferior.
>I could go into the other lines but I can't be bothered.
Fine by me, you've done a lot more work than I'm used to on /lit/, since at least the beginning of this year. Great stuff t b h. You have much insight to offer, and I would be pleased to hear more from you.
>>8158020
Your English is absolutely awful. Convoluted and bordering on incoherent. What's your native language?
>>8158031
maybe you're just retarded and can't read. his english is perfectly fine.
>>8158031
Thank you friend, I will take your critique to heart.
>>8155372
Seems like too complex for /lit/. In particular i have no idea why Faustgot salvation despite being naive, pretentious asshole. Probably because of Goethe's humanism "he is only a human but he sthrive for better" but its not very convincing for me - too different from unforgiving abrahamic religions morality
>>8158109
faust didn't get saved just because of "human striving," he got saved because ultimately, he's at some level a stand-in for german/human culture. part 2 is not about faust's triumphs and follies as an individual but about what goethe veiwed as the irreversible course of human history. he's not saved as an individual, but rather, the worldview espoused by goethe leaves no choice but for him to be saved.
and besides, goethe wasn't really a christian and his appropriation of christian allegory should not be viewed as his statement on christian morality. it was just a way for him to frame his story.
>>8155596
best translation?
>>8158156
Not him, but Luke imo has the best rhythm, emotional evocation, sophistication, and word choice.
>>8158156
bloom likes atkins. huge emphasis on rhythm and meter (an underappreciated aspect of the original from what i gather).
norton comes with the best supplemental materials. arndt's is super stilted though, and even the editor who wrote the commentary/accompanying notes often provides alternate translations of passages to make a point.
luke is sophisticated and very well-received, though i think some of his modernization are a bit awkward. could be personal preference. it's showing signs of being the new "standard" translation for sure.
greenberg (not pictured) is super colloquial and casual. kinda fun to read but i think it misses some nuance at times.
>>8158005
Just a few notes, since I should actually be studying right now:
>The German does sound more authoritative and is could be regarded as a facet of difficult German philosophy, but the English is more impassioned and makes Faust sound more human, preserving his personality without reducing him to trite whining.
Again, kind of my point. In the German version you are mostly supposed to relate to Faust on an intellectual level (or rather the Weltschmerz of it all) but otherwise not so much. His infatuation with Margarete, subsequent deal with Mephisto and the immoral relationship he had with her aren't supposed to evoke compassion in the reader, but rather aversion to his character as a man.
Obviously this is an over-simplification, but at least that it the impression most people will get on their first read of the German version. It is a tragedy and Faustus deserves what he gets.
>and English is by no means less civilized than German.
Again, not the position I took.
But I'd argue to the rest of it, that the impression of a "rough language" would vanish for anyone who actually spoke the language well enough to understand Goethe.
Much like some people might call Arabic "agressive and rough", but Arabic poetry being considered among the most sensitive around.
That being put aside, it seems to me as though you are seriously arguing to impose English as a standardized language among literary scholars. Which, and excuse my French, is dumb as fuck. It's akin to arguing that it would be valid to just repaint all classical pictures with kinda-sorta the same colors and materials and say it would be perfectly valid to study those instead of the original.
A translation, however slight the differences may be, are different books. And while there would still be much you could study about it across languages (general themes, symbolism, historical context, etc.), you are either fully ignoring the linguistic aspect of it all, or you aren't studying "Faust. Eine Tragödie by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe" but "Doctor Faustus, the David Luke Edition" or "the Stuart Atkins Edition" or whatever.
To expand that idea ad absurdum, we might as well have German lit courses entirely in English. (Dear god, I hope that doesn't actually happen anywhere in the world.)
To understand German literature fully, you have to understand German. To understand English literature fully, you have to understand English. And so forth.
Again, being native in both languages, this seems especially absurd to me.
>>8158199
I don't think that English should swallow every other language, merely that the translated works can be regarded as parallel to the original. I don't think that everyone else has to hold the same opinion, and that's fine by me.
>>8158290
>merely that the translated works can be regarded as parallel to the original
Okay, then I just misunderstood.
>He thinks Faust is better than Manfred.
>>8155596
is /faustistic/ a thing? Rode part 1+2 like 50 times+ in total. Would send a pic of my collection but I'm at my gf atm.
>>8158436
read*
>>8158436
sounds patrician desu
>>8158436
It's "faustisch" in German and I'm pretty sure it's "faustian" in English.
>>8159030
u wot m8
>>8155372
Posted about here before, but I read Faust Part 1 and the work felt...slapdash. I think it was a bad translation in part, but still. The plot of Faust is an awkward fusion of two different themes written decades apart and it really shows.
Kaufman or Atkins?
>>8159788
kaufmann is incomplete so you don't really have a choice
i like him though but some lines are awkward. a common criticism is his excessive focus on rhyme, but i like his general cadence
>>8155372
I want to seduce an Austrian cutie.
Can I learn German with Faust in its native language and a dictionnary?
>>8159830
no :( You would not learn a single sentence that you could in daily life
>>8160517
>implying you wouldn't be swimming in Viennese pussy if you exclusively spoke in Goethe's prose
>>8160933
I'm from Vienna and I totally second that.Talk Goethe to me.
>>8161002
>Da steh ich nun, ich armer Tor!
>und red an Schaaass als wie zuvor
>>8155393
>You just fucking read about them, acknowledge he was a titan, then move on.
similis simili gaudet
>>8155399
>I think not many people on here read German.
Unless, you know. maybe not all people here are yankee scum.
>>8157708
Goethe colour theory would be great meme for this shithole, it is equally retarded
>>8158436
pretty sure there are like 5 more Reclams around my appartement
>>8161534
good stuff senpai
>>8161534
Thanks for sharing friend!
>>8161534
Um Gottes willen, warum hast du drei Faust 2?
>>8155596
Which edition/translation would you recommend?
>>8162132
Also sprach Zarathustra, si.
Es wird ein mensch gemacht??? si??? germano bongo longo chingchong si?????
>>8162228
nvm, hadn't read to the end of the thread
>>8162132
Bin quer durch Deutschland viel mit dem Zug unterwegs und kaufe mir dann relativ spontan Reclams an der Bahnhofsbücherei. Besonders wenn ich einen Vers im Kopf habe lässt mir das keine Ruhe bis ich es "gedruckt" lesen kann
>>8158109
>unforgiving abrahamic religions morality
I take it that you haven't read the new testament? And sure all abrahamic religions are equal, just like all books are equal.
>>8161534
forgot them suckers
>>8162359
Do you know any great Goethe criticism in English? I already have the Norton.
>>8162595
Unfortunately not. I haven't been too much into reading Goethe in English yet. But after reading this thread I might consider reading some translations + criticism over the summer
>>8162359
Where can I buy these?
I'm in the US and they aren't on Amazon.
>>8163872
Actually, they are not poduced anymore (at least the second one).
Funny story:
>saw the 2nd part at some wasted bookshop
>looked like it stood there at least 10 years
>didn't bought it
>few days later hated myself for not buying it
>went to 20 bookshops close to my area
>nobody had it, nobody found it in database
>asked a shop owner about it
>"you sure you mean the 2nd part and not the first one, you know it's with le greeks and stuff"
>nearly blacked out
>close to nerdrage while proving Im not a pseud
>bought train ticket to the first book store and bought it
>didn't saw an exemplar since
>>8164175
They have them on their website...
>>8164533
pretty sure they did not like 1 1/2 yrs ago. I'm not that retarded.
Like I said I tried to order it through the bookstore directly and it wasn't in any of their databases. But I withdraw my statement that it's not printed anymore from 2 posts back
>>8164533
at least i got some memories connected with the book :p
>>8162311
lel, that's pretty funny.
>>8164564
>I'm not that retarded.
>I promise.
It's okay, pham.
Well, since this is now just Goethe/Reclam appreciation thread now, I might as well give you what I have at hand in my commune.
(Had to use my textbook to stack the other, since the back isn't readable. It's a '59 edition and smells like old people.)
>>8165068
got this one from 1890
fat gretchen
>>8165174
Oh shit, did you buy that in Stuttgart? I could swear I saw it in a used-book-store there a couple years back.
>>8165190
ne, Büchermeile Düsseldorf. but im sure that second-hand-bookshops from all over Germany take their stuff to it. so it might be possible that it is the same
>>8165221
Well, if you're ever in Stuttgart, check out the Calwer Str.
It's on there, among other cool places.
>>8165174
Don't think fat, bruv.
Think plump, healthy, mirthful.
I'd wife her t b h.
Why is German so ugly, lads?
Why can't they just speak English like the rest of us civilized folks?
>>8165254
definately will! thanks anon
>>8165264
She's fourteen
>>8165687
Old enough to breed friendo
>>8165687
Legal gray zone in Germany, m8. :3
(People will still be disgusted by you, if you are >18)
Weil kaum jemand hier der deutschen Sprache mächtig ist und wie soll man Goethe sonst lesen? In einer englischen Übersetzung, die von irgendeinem Heini geschrieben wurde, der Deutsch an einem Community College nebenbei studiert hat? Faust ist Goethes Lebenswerk, für einen Übersetzer ist das jedoch nur ein Job von vielen, man kann also nicht dieselbe Leidenschaft dahinter erwarten. Ausserdem lesen die Leute hier nur den Standardschrott, den irgendjemand ihnen vorkäut, damit sie sich "Patrizier" nennen können und vor anderen Idioten gut dastehen.
>>8168233
this
Du musst des Felsens alte Rippen packen
Sonst stürzt sie dich hinab in dieser Schlünde Gruft.
Ein Nebel verdichtet die Nacht.
Höre, wie's durch die Wälder kracht!
Aufgescheucht fliegen die Eulen.
Hör, es splittern die Säulen
Ewig grüner Paläste.
Girren und Brechen der Aste!
Der Stämme mächtiges Dröhnen!
Der Wurzeln Knarren und Gähnen!
Im fürchterlich verworrenen Falle
Übereinander krachen sie alle
Und durch die übertrümmerten Klüfte
Zischen und heulen die Lüfte.
Hörst du Stimmen in der Höhe?
In der Ferne, in der Nähe?
Ja, den ganzen Berg entlang
Strömt ein wütender Zaubergesang!
Eine halbe Seite Goethe beschreibt eine Stimmung besser als 1000 Bilder oder sieben Bücher Rowling. Schwer vorstellbar, wie lang er für die Wahl seiner Worte gebraucht hat.
Ich stimme dir zu, dass die Übersetzung eines Buches, das zu 99% eine hommage an "sein geliebtes Deutsch" ist kaum Sinn macht.
btw
>>8169147
that's a 9.5/10 on /lit/ scala
>>8168690
>triggered.png
Accurate.
>>8155372
>hipster-tier
Not even. In the wider world, basically no one knows who Gene Wolfe is. I've literally never met anyone that's ever heard of him.
