Why is modern Japanese literature so fun?
>>8150790
How much of untranslated, modern Japanese literature is worthwhile?
>>8150790
Do you read it in Japanese?
>>8150828
I read it in English but I'm such a huge weeb that the words sometimes pop up in Japanese in my head. But I can't actually read Japanese so I read translations.
>>8150950
What is fun in Japanese literature?
>>8150950
What are some modern Japanese books you find fun?
>>8151029
Japanese literature is the epytome of comfyness to me, but it can become dull real fast.
>>8151039
I honestly think that 20th century Japanese lit is one of the GOAT scenes.
What other countries/nations (preferably not America or Britain) have a good lit scene?
>>8151029
I've read Murakami, and while he is hated on /lit/ I found most of his novels enjoyable, but there's been a while since I read them. Will look into Keigo Higashino, thanks.
Awaiting OP to contribute, why else create a thread?
>>8151068
Because you touch yourself at night
>>8151054
Norway desu
>>8150828
Here's 900MB of translated japanese novels, amongst other stuff.
mega://#F!51Q0waSI
key !4Ut-eePQr9YSjHJJTQs7Ew
>>8151021
What he's referring two is that all three of those 'stacks' in his/OP's pic are the literary equivalent of soap operas; something that has kind of died out in the West (newspapers used to print daily/weekly story arcs for example). Exceptions lie in things like The Archers.
In Japan, meanwhile, these 'literary soap operas' are wildly popular.
I started reading in Japanese only last year and in a slow pace, but I enjoyed the pleasant shallowness of Kitchen by Banana Yoshimoto and would recommend pretty much any work by Osamu Dazai. Joseito (Schoolgirl) got stuck in my mind specially.
>>8150790
Probably because Japanese academia isn't openly, or for that matter covertly, hostile to Japanese literary culture.
>>8152500
Dazai is the best if you're one of those who'd've liked Salinger to have written more.
Does anyone know where to find ebooks in Japanese?
>>8152874
archive.org has a bunch.
>>8152452
Thanks for the link.
Stumbled onto this in the Amazon recommended links one day.
Was a pretty cool read, although the structure is a bit weird; it's basically just a guy walking around Tokyo for a while.
The lack of obvious plot or theme seems in line with the traditional Japanese vein of writing.
>>8153035
>The lack of obvious plot or theme seems in line with the traditional Japanese vein of writing.
As someone who reads a fuckton of jap literature... no idea how you came up with that. Sure, there might be a couple of works like that, but an exception doesn't make the rule.
Lack of obvious plot or theme is more in line with, like, Joyce.
>>8150790
any clue what the purple series is?
>>8152281
>If Haruki was Nabokov, Ryu would be Thompson, yet I still love both Nabokov and Thompson.
>>8153062
Recommend stuff and contribute with your opinion if you have "read a fuckton of jap literature" fuccboi
>>8153726
I've been doing so ITT. Also, I uploaded this >>8152452
But fuck it. Have some recommendations anyway:
Murakami Haruki - Magical realism with DEEP prose that still doesn't feel all that pretentious, even though he's the go-to author for japanese hipsters. I'd recommend his 1Q84.
Murakami Ryu - GRIMDARK but fun. If you've watched Audition, or Tokyo Decadence, or Love & Pop, or 69 - he wrote them. In the Miso Soup would be my recommendation, but get ready for some hard gore.
Koji Suzuki should be famous enough for you. He wrote Ringu and its related novels (known as the Ring cycle), which were adapted to the extremely famous films. Those are the novels of his I'd recommend.
Speaking of famous, Takami Koushun's Battle Royale is extremely famous for all the good reason. Not to mention both Ringu and Battle Royale had been influential as fuck.
And let's talk about westerners. For a bluepilled weeb kike, Jake Adelstein's Tokyo Vice is fantastic.
And if we get away from modern lit, Edogawa Ranpo is fantastic. Just go read The Caterpillar (short collected in Japanese Tales of Mystery and Imagination) and get blown away. His shit hasn't gotten old at all.
Other than that, if you wanna read lighter stuff, as in "light novel" light, Ryohgo Narita and NisiOisiN are great. Narita's Baccano would be my go-to recommendation, and Zaregoto for NisiOisiN.
>>8152452
Why do you answer to my post?
>>8152509
Hiroshi Mori frequently quoted J. D. Salinger between each chapter, and I've seen many other Japanese authors doing so. I don't know why he's so popular here in Japan.
>>8153753
>Why do you answer to my post?
I assumed it was pertinent.
>>8150790
I really wish I could read Japanese.
Any tips on how to learn it?
Is it even possible for a slightly intelligent 23 year old white person to learn it well enough to read a book like this?
>>8153752
So all the most basic shit everyone knows already. Good job contributing nothing, please stop posting.
>>8153773
>So all the most basic shit everyone knows already
You asked for recommendations. I assumed you wanted basics.
But do eat shit and die.
>>8153774
Oh, and I forgot, horrible wank that only weeaboos read. Like the lit equivalent of Naruto. Stop posting.
>>8153776
not even the guy you accused of being a weeb but,naruto is a manga for teen and comparing it to jap lit is quite unfair for multiple reasons
>>8153889
>Murakami is dogshit
Which one?
>>8153891
Haruki. I did not finish Norwegian Wood or Kafka On The Shore and they are actually the only two books on my bookshelf that I started and did not finish.
>>8153901
You should give 1Q84 a chance. It's way different. Tolstoy-hueg though.
>>8150790
Jesus Christ those are some fat light novels. Is it Horizon? I followed the show when it aired but never picked up the novels.
>>8153912
Japan has tonnes of these.
See the earlier post in this thread, they're basically the book version of soap operas.
>>8153912
>Is it Horizon?
Yep.
I dropped the animu.
>>8153793
The comparison with “Naruto” was obviously stupid but he made a point. Edogawa Rampo sure is fun to read yet it's still a genre author who's talented in building up intrigues with mysteries to be solved. Don't get me wrong, I really like his short stories, it's refreshing and fun to go through and I wouldn't turn him down while praising Hiroshi Mori. I'm currently in the middle of Keigo Higashino's “Akui”. However there's nothing to compare here with “real literature”, whether we're talking about classics or famous modern writers like Shōhei Ōoka, Ryōtarō Shiba or Kenzaburō Ōe. There's even in-between many authors who write in a more subtle way, yet retain popular features (I'm thinking of Mariko Hayashi or Jirō Asada). I can understand people are fed up with such titles, especially when described as “fantastic” and “deep”.
>>8153919
"deep" != "DEEP".
Lurk moar.
Finished No Longer Human and The Setting Sun. Absolutely amazing. Who do most people on here move onto next?
is it true that there are mostly circular narratives in eastern books?
Like without a linearized plot or continued digressions as other literary communities practice
>>8153942
Check Motojirō Kajii's short stories, then Masuji Ibuse's “Kuroi Ame” if you're still eager to read darker, pessimist works.
>>8153958
I've seen this pattern many times but it doesn't change a lot, it's still a linear plot that simply happens to end where it began.
>>8152874
http://www.aozora.gr.jp/
>>8153767
not OP but to read Japanese you have to be able to read 3 scripts: hiragana, katakana and kanji.
hiragana and katakana are pretty straightforward to learn, hiragana is used for japanese words and particles. Katakana is used primarily for foreign loan words, sound effects and emphasis(like if a word was italicized in English)
you need to have a good knowledge of kanji readings as well as a good vocabulary to read in Japanese. a lot of the vocabulary is tied to kanji.
to be literate in Japanese you have to know how to read kanji. there are kids books that are written solely in hiragana, which the kids have enough vocabulary to understand, but there's not much else written only in hiragana. there's quite a lot of homonyms in Japanese that the characters clear up.
my advice is to learn the kana first. they don't take much effort to learn, you just have to make time for it.
One option for learning kanji is to download anki core Japanese decks and drill the vocabulary, which is popular on /a/, but you have to be consistent. There's a Daily Japanese Thread /DJT/ where you can get help alot of help about learning Japanese, but there is also a fuckton of shitposting. The people who use the core anki decks say you have to get your reps in everyday, just drill the vocab over and over, and if you miss a day you lose motivation.
The middle way is to learn the kanji as you come across them in a Japanese textbook, which is the most gradual but may take you years to get anywhere, and you will have to spend alot of time learning kanji.
The most controversial method is remembering the kanji, which is a book in which you learn how to write and remember the kanji and you then learn how to read the characters after. RTK is good especially for differentiating similar kanji(which there is a lot of) because you spend time writing the characters and remembering their forms. If you go for this route after you know how to write the kanji you can focus on the readings and vocab.
There's no real way around the Kanji- if you wanna read you need to know them and their readings. most people don't care for learning how to write them. I have found that you can recognize them much quicker if you know the stroke order. Kanji is one of the biggest walls that make people give up learning Japanese.
sorry for the long post, good luck on your journey.
>>8150790
That's Horizon, right? I really want to read it
>>8154568
Frankly i think this is a terrible advice. There are some rules to strictly follow if you want Anki to be effective. First of all, you must never, ever download a deck. Making up your own one with your own cards is itself part of the memorization process, and you will have to format the data efficiently and avoid too much information. A character card shouldn't have its pinyin reading, ten compounds or its frequency, for example. To remember a character correctly, he should consider it as a collection of smaller parts. Consider 「明」 as the addition of 「月」 and 「日」. 「価」 is 「覀」 plus 「亻」, and 「裁」 is made of 「土」, 「戈」 and 「衣」. This way, he may significantly reduce the number and order of strokes—which is mandatory—to learn. It's also easier to search a character in a dictionary. Regarding the computer, he should install the Microsoft IME so he can write directly in Japanese. It may differ from his actual keyboard configuration, so it's better to buy a Japanese one if possible. The IME comes with a poor dictionary and a handwriting character recognition program that rarely works properly. On his smartphone, if applicable, Imiwa? is among the best dictionaries although it has no synchronization with Anki nor handwritten symbol recognition. Any, I'm definitely against on-screen learning material and found one learn much quicker by leaving the computer. Using a book is better to remember an information because the medium is so slow and unconvenient the brain is more likely to save up the information itself instead of the path which led to it. If he consider to seriously study Japanese, he should acquire the following:
- an English - Japanese dictionary;
- a Japanese - English dictionary;
- a dictionary of characters;
- a complete grammar;
- an appropriate notebook;
- ideally, a fountain pen.
Regarding the reading part, he shouldn't read classics and “high literature” right now and head for short stories, ideally genre fiction. Thrillers, romance, mystery, science-fiction, most of what the other user posted earlier. The most common pulp format is called “shinsho”, which measures about 17.5 cm by 10.5 cm. A simple, appropriate book should contain approximately 0.7 sentences per line, along with three to five spoken ones. Longer sentences will be hardly manageable and he will likely drop out.
>>8154602
There's an archive called “Japanese Language Learning Pack” with 25 Go worth of files, with courses, dictionaries, vocabulary builders and few stories that goes around on many websites. Broadly speaking, it's a disadvantage to concurrently use too much references, so he must careful about it. I've read and physically own most of the titles available, and the quality is uneven. I'll talk about what I consider valuable enough. In “Japanese Writing System”, almost all titles are garbage he shouldn't care for. Two titles are a must, however; “Basic Kanji Book”—two volumes, then “Intermediate Kanji Book”, two others, each with a completely different method but still highly valuable—and “Remembering the Kanji”. He should use the last one as an entertaining reading, though. Check some ideograms, but don't study it seriously. He better keep it on the side and wait for now.
On the section “Audio Courses and Textbooks”, he should select “Genki”, the well-known manual, along with “Minna no Nihongo”—beware, the method is much exotic. The textbook is entirely in Japanese, and one needs to work simultaneously with an English-translated folio, in addition to a workbook—and the Berlitz “Basic Japanese Course”, although incomplete in the archive and much slower than the others. While taking off to lower-intermediate, “Chūkyū kara Manabu”, “Bunka Nihongo Chūkyū” and “Genki 2” are pretty good, yet the latter is less interesting and less complete.
In “Grammar, Workbooks and Usage”, the series “A Dictionary of Basic/Intermediate/Advanced Japanese Grammar” is excellent. It's mostly incomplete, and the Intermediate/Advanced distinction is ridiculous, but many relevant features are depicted along with examples, notes, counter-examples and a solid formalization. The second volume also has a very good introduction chapter which covers things we rarely look for, like the way Japanese people show they're listening when talking, how to make metaphors and so on. Very instructive. Another good reference is the Oxford “Japanese Grammar and Verbs”. Very concise but among the most useful ones when beginning. I strongly advice him to find it in its physical form.
In the “Vocabulary, Expressions and idioms” folder, few files are interesting. The “VocabuLearn” series has a good lexicon and an audio aid, but it has been built with no sense—nouns are mixed up for no reason—and shouldn't be taken seriously. He should check the verb and adjective sections in the three volumes, they are solid and will help him get a broad lexicon. “How to Sound Intelligent in Japanese” is also really nice, despite its name. It's actually a small builder with six, seven chapters. It gives a rather deep insight about a half-basic, half-technical Japanese vocabulary. Pretty good to… Eh, sound intelligent. Overall, he shouldn't rely on a book to build his vocabulary. He must read, instead.
>>8153773
He contributed more than you did, now fuck off.
>>8153752
>I'd recommend his 1Q84
The fact that you recommend one of the worst Murakami novels makes the rest of your post a doubtful piece of shit.
>>8153726
I haven't read a fuckton of nip literature, but I can certainly say for Haruki Murakami, Kafka on the Shore, Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and Hard-Boiled Wonderland are the best choices.
>>8152452
my nigger
>>8154602
I didnt say anki was the best method,i just stated thats what alot of people on djt swear by it.
>>8153774
I wasn´t that guy. I´ve only read Schoolgirl and Kazuo Ishiguro stuff (I don´t know if it counts, he is more like an english writer) so I don´t know if you could recommend something not so well known. I just downloaded the whole batch you posted and I´m not sure how to proceed. I want to feel special so reading murakami might not be in order for me.
>>8154602
>First of all, you must never, ever download a deck. Making up your own one with your own cards is itself part of the memorization process, and you will have to format the data efficiently and avoid too much information
Thats your opinion. I consider it a waste of time personally.
Anki is only a small amount of study time and you should learn through compelling content anyway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5IPArDxO40
>>8154901
I wasn't pointing Anki in particular but the three methods as a whole. I used to rely on Anki when it came to vocabulary and characters but I grew skeptical over the years, partly because an entry isn't memorized in its context. In the end it gives little genuine proficiency. The second one is decent but it strongly depends on which textbook you're sticking with, especially when considering many don't even use syllabaries but rather rōmaji. Also, telling him this “may take years to get anywhere” implies it shouldn't otherwise. It will take years. He should be prepared to. Finally, regarding “Remembering the Kanji”, I've already given my opinion. It's a terrible method to begin with, more suitable to already upper-intermediate/advanced learners, in particular the third book which could be a companion to Japanese literary script. Sorry if I read harsh, it's not intended. Overall, I wouldn't recommend the daily Japanese thread if your wish is to read Japanese literature.
>>8154961
As I said I don't like Anki but downloading a deck strips off the little potential it has. If I remember correctly, Anki's development team even told it themselves on the previous project called “Memo2000” or something like that.
Who is this guy? I could think of dozens of worse mistakes than sticking for too long with a beginner book. I don't even get why someone who finished a textbook would set it back instead of going to the next grade.
>>8154984
>Who is this guy? I could think of dozens of worse mistakes than sticking for too long with a beginner book.
Me too honestly but I posted it because I know people who have done that. Its shocking how few people use native content until they are already near fluent.
Using the Rikaisama add on for firefox you can make a flashcard by highlighting a word and pressing r and thats what I have been using since I hit about 1000 words but I don't see how using a deck someone else made before that hurt me considering I didn't know enough to read anything and pick up words until I knew about 400 words.
>>8154963
You weren't harsh and you made great points in your posts, justified your thoughts better than me. Your method of breaking down the kanji into radicals is a little bit like RTK.
Most people on djt are learning japanese so they can read vn's and eroge,to be fair. Its not a place of much culture.
Are there any authors you are learning japanese to read?
>>8155071
Sure, I'm definitely not fighting against native material. Even as a beginner I think reading newspaper's headlines or listening to NHK's slower broadcast is working great. I forgot it but Rikaichan—or Rikaisama, whatever—is a precious tool. I think it's better to work with a real dictionary but it does the trick when starting to read Japanese and finding himself surrounded with unknown vocabulary. I'm still strongly against loading an existing deck. Creating a card, writing up the question, skimming through each word, deciding whether or not it should be included, all these activities account for a lot in the memorization process. By checking the reading, the strokes order or the translation, you're already remembering the entry.
>>8155072
Breaking down the character is indeed the core method of “Remembering the Kanji” but it doesn't go further. You don't learn the meaning as a whole, the compounds you could meet, not even the readings. Also, the book evolves on a part-focused line and so makes few sense for a beginner. Among the first twenty characters are 吾, 冒 or 朋 which are in no way suitable here. It's a valuable resource new learners shouldn't take it as a textbook. There are characters many Japanese natives don't even know. I were interested in Japanese for its sole language, in the first place. Later I tried to read classics but I wasn't fluent enough. I read instead short stories and modern writers. Yasunari Kawabata, Osamu Dazai, Taiko Hirabayashi, Tatsuo Nagai, Masuji Ibuse and Edogawa Rampo, Hiroshi Noma, Yukio Mishima—yeah—or Kensaku Shimaki. Fortunately enough, I never really cared about Haruki Murakami. I also never read manga or so-called light novels. A lot of pulp to practice, however.
>>8155071
Also, I like the guy. I've watched his video where he calls Benny Lewis and the others Babbel-esque polyglots on their bullshits.
SPEAK MORE ABOUT JAPAN DESU
>>8156565
this
>>8156565
Like what?
I can't believe no one has pointed out how Japanese is one of the worst languages for losing things while translating to the point translations are pretty much rewrites
http://www.tcj.com/confessions-of-a-manga-translator/.
>Readers want to think all the translator does is swap words into a different language, substituting “あ” for “a.” But that’s not how translation works. Especially not literary translation. Especially not Japanese to English translation
This is not based on translating books but its pretty much the same anyway
>>8156565
it's a great country to visit but literal hell on earth for anyone who's not insane to live in
i fucking love japan and i'd love to go back but the place is intolerable for anyone who's not repressed and submissive as all hell
>>8158563
elaborate please
>>8150950
wait, are there english translations of Horizon, or did you mean more generally?
>>8158563
>i fucking love japan and i'd love to go back but the place is intolerable for anyone who's not repressed and submissive as all hell
This idea of Japan being so repressive and not allowing any personal expression is somewhat stereotyped.
Japan has a social structure you're "supposed" to follow, sure, but so does every country. Japan is only mildly worse, mostly because they make you do more work.
