![1280px-Flag_of_France.svg[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/e6uNE12.png "1280px-Flag_of_France.svg[1].png")
My goal is to teach myself French to the level I could read their literature in the original language. What routine should I follow? I've already started the Duolingo course.
>>8143843
Do yourself a favor and just give up now. French people hate non-native speakers and mock them for entertainment, why put yourself through that? You'll never get the accent right and everybody will hate you. But who cares? it's a dying language in 2016, nobody will speak it in a couple centuries. Do yourself a favor and learn an actual language like Latin where nobody is educated enough to call you out on your mispronunciations
>>8143855
good thing you don't need an accent to read
>>8143865
You can't appreciate literature properly if you can't subvocalize. Sorry but it's just a fact. Language is based upon spoken communication, and if you learn French, you won't be able to communicate i.e. your understanding of the language will be inferior and gross
>>8143843
Use Memrise to build your vocabulary. Pick an easy book like Le Petit Prince and read it every day until you've added 20 new words in your Memrise course.
Also watch based French kino and listen to French music if you find some that you like.
>>8143855
>shitheads that don't like me in my own country won't like me in another.
OP, duolingo is going to teach you shit vocab and grammar too slowly. Every day, translate a short chunk of whatever it is you want to read, plug the 100 most common words into anki immediately and study them, and learn one grammar point every day. Write a short summary of one thing you do or read each day, and remember that about 1-2 weeks in, French stuff is gonna start to seem shitty and you have to push through.
You can do it anon; I just dusted Camus' La Peste.
>>8143890
>duolingo is going to teach you shit vocab
The French course is mostly alright. The best thing in Duolingo are the language discussions and the French again is pretty good.
>>8143875
maybe you can't
>>8143925
Is it maybe you can't like maybe one can't and so no one can, or maybe YOU can't like that particular poster can't but others can.
>>8143929
maybe that poster can't appreciate literature without subvocalising, but it is not necessarily true of all readers
just take the book French for Reading
finish it
read french lit
>>8143843
Follow through on the duolingo course, get some books (I have a great copy of Candide that highlights and defines prominent words for French learners) and frequent /fr/ on /int/. It's one of the least shitty generals, and while they mainly talk about anime, SJWs and muslims, you're already dealing with that in English.
>>8143855
This guy's wrong. I just got back from a vacation in France and people were perfectly friendly. Many will speak French with you if you can converse, many others will switch to English if your French is bad or you're visibly struggling, but none are impolite. The only time I had rudeness was the one time I made the mistake of initiating a conversation in English out of habit. In smaller towns people are actually excited to communicate with English speakers and you get into fun Frenglish miming situations where you're both using what little you know of the other's language to communicate.
Still, as a spoken language I really hate French. I could barely understand a damn thing anyone said, though they understood me perfectly.
By the by, can anyone recommend some good French /lit/ beyond the philosophers and romances that clutter every foreign language section in this country?
>>8143936
No, it's true of all readers. Literature needs to be heard to be properly appreciated; speed readers have lower cognitive functions and routinely perform worse on tests of reading comprehension.
>>8143974
What kind of lit do you enjoy?
>>8143974
Look for the thread with mauspassants portrait.
The best way to learn is to find a certified and competent tutor, the older the better. You should read in French whenever it's possible. Start with newspapers' headlines, children books, isolated words and such. Gradually slip into literature—Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, André Malraux, Julien Green and such—and longer sentences. In the meantime, spend a lot of time in grammar. Keep a notebook with recent vocabulary. Use Anki if you want to. You should be able to read with few struggle within two years.
>>8144066
Period stuff, genre work, first hand historical accounts. I'm sure I'll get shit on for this but I enjoy a good story over a heavy message.
>>29167576
I'm doing the same OP but with German. Ive started reading some German literature and watching Das Boot. I'm almost 4 months in and have learned almost every tense along with about 90% of the irregulars. You can do it but you truly have to fall in love with the culture and the literature it find the motivation to learn it.
Wouldn't French also be pretty easy to pick up because of the vocabulary we are familiar with from English?
What's some easy Italian literature?
>>8144419
Somewhat, it's easy to learn from a reading perspective but the spoken language is all kinds of slurred and fucked up.
I can personally speak 4 languages fluently. I'm planning on starting to learn Japanese soon.
Duolingo is shit, the only way to learn a language is to learn the grammar through the internet and then slowly but surely learn X amount of words a day. Once you have build a little amount of words and grammar, you have to start watching news and movies and read books in that language and try to speak it with someone (not available to everyone ofc).#
Learning German at the moment. I am done with A2, I would say.
>>8143875
I'm certain that subvocalizing is only necessary when reading poetry, however it's harmless to read a novel or short story with subvocalizing. I myself tend to memorize what I've read better when I read in my head rather than when I subvocalizing so maybe it's all subjective.
>>8143843
If you want to truly learn another language you need to immerse yourself in it. Listen to French radio, read French newspapers, watch French movies etc. Add to that some sort of education (there are thousands of language learning resources on the web) and you'll pick it up easy over the course of a few months.
From the recommendation of many polyglots on the web, to learn a language you need to truly use it on a daily basis. Living in a country that primarily speaks the language is the best way to learn, but only if you're actively attempting to speak it every day. An Irish guy called Benny on YouTube turned into a polyglot and one of his most common stories is about living in Spain for six months, where he didn't learn a single sentence of Spanish purely because he never tried to speak it daily.
>>8143974
Jules Verne
>>8144652
Well, I think we should make a distinction between learning a language and learning to speak it. From what I read, OP is learning French to be able to read original pieces of literature. He needs a more rigorous/schoolish approach. Also, I wouldn't take an advice from Benny Lewis. I don't know how proficient he is in each language but he doesn't have a very good command of French and German, and I assume he frequently planned his speech when talking. Generally speaking, few people among the “this guy speaks 9 languages” and other Babbel-like ads actually have achieved a real fluency. I honestly don't think he could read a newspaper without a dictionary.
>>8143843
Michel Thomas' courses (Beginner and advanced) are really great for the basics.
>>8144712
Benny Lewis is the most normie shit advise on language learning I've seen.
What he does is not being fluent or even be able to speak the language in 3 months. He can speak a little bit of a broken language with a disgusting accent which he then shows off in all of his Videos to earn jewtube bux from normie clicks.
Being fluent in a language isn't just being able to buy tomatoes from the local market or talk with someone about your day.
Follow his advice and you'll learn absolutely nothing.
>>8143855
>being this stupid
French people only have beef with people who come to their country and don't attempt to learn the language
>like Latin where nobody is educated enough to call you out on your mispronunciations
as someone who knows Latin i can tell you that classicists are always quick to call you out on pronunciation, especially if you're using vulgar ecclesiastical Latin for classical works.
>>8145228
>French people only have beef with people who come to their country and don't attempt to learn the language
And if I were to also visit Poland, Hungary, Czechozolvakia, where ever else should I also be expected to attempt to learn their languages?
What's worse is that France is never judged in the same chauvinistic "were the center of the world" image as Americans are by eurocucks when it's exactly the same thing.
>>8145003
It will get you to at least lower intermediate extremely quickly. If you did one of his 3 month challenges and then powered through a novel or 2, you could be near B2 in 5-6 months in any language.
Of course he sucks at pronunciation.
>>8145228
People's negative reaction to french culture is evidence of the "I want home + French stuff!" approach many people have to travel and the reduction of entire cultures to food, pop music, and whatever shitty knock-off American tv dramas the country has at that point in time.
Learning a culture is best done through books, humor, and homestays. Even making penpals isn't really good for much other than language exercises, because most people don't know shit about their own cultures.
"French people are rude" means "People with a different set of values won't fellate mine"
>>8146087
I sincerely don't think so. Even if someone manages to reach B2 in six months—I doubt this could be done in French within less than a year, and certainly not in languages like Russian, Chinese or Arabic—he would butcher it and waste years correcting the weak bases he got. As a said, I don't even think these so-called Youtube polyglots can read a newspaper.
>>8146087
That would be great if it were true, but in my experience it isn't. Which languages have you learnt to a B2 level in 5-6 months?
These two books have been really helpful:
Madame Bovary, paragraph by paragraph, in french and english.
The other one is a quick grammar with tons of real text translation exercises like fragments from Flaubert (again), Proust, etc.
Madame Bovary_ Madame Bovary_ B - Gustave Flaubert.azw3
>https://u.pomf.is/jlmzhj.azw3
Short Course in Reading French - Brickman, Celia;.epub
>https://u.pomf.is/ohrnqq.epub
you can convert formats with calibre
>If you did one of his 3 month challenges and then powered through a novel or 2, you could be near B2 in 5-6 months in any language.
You understand that this is ridiculous right?
>>8147018
can you see if there's an epub version of french grammar and usage by hawkins towell on blbliotik please?
>>8147022
sorry, there's not. Anything else you want? Anything from pic related?
Also, how'd you know it was from bib?
>>8147033
that epub of price comprehensive grammar, and epubs of duffy 'using french vocabulary' and blackwell 'a companion to aesthetics'. i will be glad, thanks.
bib download links are usually in the "u.pomf.is" form.
>>8147047
>>8147047
2015 Pierre Destree[ED], Penelope Murray[ED] - A Companion to Ancient Aesthetics_Rebll.epub
>u.pomf.is/drjrho.epub
Using French Vocabulary.pdf
>u.pomf.is/fhpmkn.pdf
A Comprehensive French Grammar - Price, Glanville;.epub
>u.pomf.is/bphmgi.epub
Hope you meant 'companion to ancient aesthetics', cause that's all we got. And sorry about the pdf, no other format available
>>8143843
Try this dude
http://polyglotclub.com/find-friends/translate-french
>>8147056
merci
>>8144439
>Once you have build a little amount of words and grammar, you have to start watching news and movies and read books in that language
Obviosly not work for languages with retarded writing system like Japanese has
If you want some experience with the informal language, go to /fr/ on /int/. It's actually decent considering it's a general, that, and the natives there are usually super helpful.
If you're like over 13 that's almost impossible for you to fully learn another language even in a lifetime. You must be born speaking French to level with others
>>8144419
Yes and no. There are plenty of false friends. And if you go in with that attitude often you never really develop that much (there are some worrying statistics out there that British language students will maybe learn just under 3000 words of active vocab after a French degree. This is thought to be at least in part down to the shared vocabulary).
It's often great for passive recognition but not for speaking and writing, like you will either write in an incredibly limited way with very few words or you'll misuse words you think are the same.
>>8145729
Bro I think there's an interesting point hiding in there but you're approaching writing a legit word salad. It didn't make sense, try to clarify your point.
>>8147103
then there is no point in doing so whatsoever
>>8146296
>Even if someone manages to reach B2 in six months—I doubt this could be done in French within less than a year
B2 is absolutely achieveable in 6 months to a year, but it requires a massive amount of commitment. Not like quit your job type of commitment but sitting down every day, do some translation, write a longish essay, grind some vocab but mostly doing the active stuff like speaking and writing rather than just reading or grinding or watching movies.
There was a S.E. Asian guy that wrote a blog about learning German for a university scholarship. He had to pass is it the DAAD? but like the academic language entry exam to qualify. And he had to do it in under a year. That's something like B2 level (iirc it's above B1 threshold by quite a way but not quite B2 on some marks)
>>8143974
>I could barely understand a damn thing anyone said, though they understood me perfectly.
There's often a "then they speak normally" moment where you thought you understood stuff pretty good but then realise you're either really bad or having a stroke as you can't make shit out at all.
>>8143843
I'm learning Indonesian, it's pretty easy compared to my own language and it's really fun to learn. After studying German I really enjoy the change
>>8143855
no no no french doesn't hate people that got an accent at all
even, it's a bit fashianable
Latin, nobody knows the real antic prononciation so there's no problem with that
French here:
Duolingo should get you going with Grammar, Syntax and the like. Make sure you take some time to learn and practice with the French phonetics, for we have a very weird set of vocalic phonemes (especially the nasal ones and the /y/ with which non-natives struggle a lot).
Once you're good you should be able to read Maupassant's short stories or things like that.
>>8146296
Who cares? Reading a newspaper requires a completely different orientation in what words and grammar you study, as well as in what way practice. Depending on language, reading newspaper is hard for some natives to do.
His point is to get you to a conversational level by using all of the gaps in your day to study, focussing specifically words for speaking and listening, instead of the old way where you are able to read said newspaper or book after years of study, but bumble like an idiot when you actually have to speak, and can't respond to simple questions.
I wouldn't use his stuff if I wanted to read a newspaper, I'd use it if I wanted to speak, which although not terribly fluently, he can certainly do by the end of most of his challenges. For developing your core of simple grammatical structures at the beginner level, he's good.
>>8147021
No it isn't. Perhaps B2 is an exaggeration, but you can have a damn good level of fluency in a few months.
I went from 0 Japanese to conversationally fluent in about 3 months his way. You just have to actually do it.
>>8147200
>I went from 0 Japanese to conversationally fluent in about 3 months his way.
You mean you learned few random phrases?
>>8147203
No chief, I held an 8 hour conversation. I have JLPT2 now.
Here is the version of his technique I used: http://www.fluentin3months.com/comfort/
It lays out his daily routine, which I copied as best as I could where I was.
>>8145729
I would certainly study the language of any country I knew I was going to visit. Even if I just knew hello, goodbye and "I'd like to order X", it's just common courtesy that you make yourself as little of a nuisance as possible
>>8143855
You're an idiot, you know that ? French people love it when foreigners even make the slightest attempt to speak French. Parisians are not representative of French people btw
>>8143843
>My goal is to teach myself French to the level I could read their literature in the original language.
Whatever for?
Y'en a pas des livres francais qui vaillent la peine.
>>8147364
>vaillent
I can't work that out.
>>8145228
>as someone who knows Latin i can tell you that classicists are always quick to call you out on pronunciation, especially if you're using vulgar ecclesiastical Latin for classical works.
never has one pronunciation of the latin letter V caused so much uproar.
>>8147383
Subjonctif, mon mec.
>>8143855
Forget French studies, it's well-known that if you go to France, people like it when you try to speak their language and will switch to English if you need it (so long as you at least try).
>>8147389
Uvlgar Latin
>>8147392
Back to grammar it is...
>>8147217
>fluentin3months
You know the guy is a fraud, right? His "method" is dumb as fuck.
>>8147217
You put in shitloads of work and can talk like a clumsy foreigner.
Stop shilling that awful site
>>8147363
This. I spent a week in Paris and only had two people be rude to me, and even then all they did was kind of blow me off.
>>8144424
This please.
Also, I'm looking for The Tartar Steppe in italian if anyone knows where to find it.
>>8147395
I can confirm this, though I haven't gone to Paris.
>>8143875
French here.
Shut the fuck up.
>>8145729
>2016
>Thinking Czechoslovakia exists
Yes you'd be expected to attempt to learn the languages you uncultured pigfucker. Especially in Hungary which has the lowest percentage of English speakers in the EU.
>>8147983
>lowest percentage of english speakers in the EU
That might be true,but you can get by nicely in Budapest just by speaking english
>>8144424
find a beginners bilingual collection of short stories. once you can read italian well enough, read the classics. the language has changed less in the last 500 years than english so just read anything
>>8144439
>learn grammar through internet
So, how?
>>8143890
how did you like it in french? i'm reading the plague too but in english
>>8143855
French people only hate americans who go to france and expect everyone to speak their language.
Almost everyone will be polite if you speak french
>>8143843
When I began learning french in my sophomore year in college (I didn't give a damn about it in highschool so never learned it then) what I did was I got some random PDF file on basic french grammar and studied a bit. Then I got L'etrager ( the Stranger) by Camus off Project guttenber I think and read it. I got probably only 60% of it but it didn't matter because it was enriching. It is a simple book to read in french because the style of the prose is straight to the point. Just highlight all words that are new to you (in the beginning they will be ALOT) and take the time to write them down on a little notebook with the correct translation on your native tongue
You'l know you have mastered french when you understand pic related
Bonne chance mec !
>>8147397
lol
>>8143843
Bonjour, frenchfag here. I'm pretty much fluent in both languages from a life-long exposition to english stuff (I've been hating on dubs since I was 6 and my father made me watch tons of various media from other countries, english stuck).
Sadly, I have an intuitive understanding of things such as grammar, and am very bad teacher, so I can't give general advice, except that the best way to learn a language is to live with it. That is, do everything you can to interact with non-scholar french stuff. Be it movies (with english then french subtitles), songs (Thiéfaine is good, but it's probably super hard to understand if you don't speak french, so I'd go with Brassens or the old Renaud albums, not the new ones).
Also yeah, we hate americans when they're in america, but we love to interact with foreigners. The only hard part is that just as much as you'll want to speak french with people, anyone that likes learning english will try to talk with you in english. I had a friend who talked to me in bad french, whom I then answered to in bad english, and we learned a lot from each other.
Also we have verlan which is pretty awesome. I mean, we put words in another order and it becomes slang!
>>8149337
J'ai buggé trente secondes, et ensuite j'ai eu une érection...source ?
>>8149337
Please refrain from posting degeneracy.
>>8149500
Oh damn I shouldn't be encouraging this, I forgot this was a blue (and cultured) board for a moment, not here most of the time, sorry.
I'll be taking my leave shortly.
>>8146087
I speak German, Polish, Spanish and Polish fluently, I doubt many people that got to "B2 level" (about which oh how so many "polyglots" like to brag about) can have a normal debate about something.
>>8147217
>Japanese
>3 months
>8h conversation
Davido-kun, there's no need to lie on the internet.
>>8148567
Download a book on grammar or go on various websites that explain it.
So how do I work on pronunciation!
>>8149613
When people aren't lazy and actually dedicatedly go after something, you'd be amazed at what they can do. I should stress that this was basically only speaking and listening; I knew very few kanji at that point.
More good advice from Benny before he gave up: http://www.fluentin3months.com/work/
When I went back later to teach myself reading and writing I more or less followed this.
Have you studied a foreign language anon?
>>8149671
Listen to podcasts, news, and tv shows with headphones, and talk to yourself. Also mimic the shit you're watching until it's basically perfect to you it won't be to a native, but you'll likely be understood.
>>8149598
>German, Polish, Spanish and Polish fluently
>Polish and Polish fluently
co tu sie dzieje
>>8149671
Find other people to practice with over skype
>>8143992
3/10
>>8147103
Dumb monolingual american detected. I learned English when I was 16, Spanish I was 21 and German when I was 26. Now I'm currently polishing my German and going to try and learn French.
>>8149792
No kurwa, chcialem napisac English ale mi sie popierdolilo
>>8147103
>finding untrue excuses to not do something you actually want to do
>>8149689
>I knew very few kanji at that point.
>I passed N2
Fuck off Benny
>>8150357
I didn't take N2 after 3 months. N2 doesn't test speaking or writing, only listening and reading. I had spoken fluency in 3 months, but it took another more focused 3 month challenge later on to get my reading up enough to pass N2.
>>8149305
Got insulted daily for having a quebecois accent by french people, in and out of Paris. Ces fdp sont d'une accablante vulgarité.
>>8150495
They and the Belgians like to laugh about that a lot.
Tbh I would have thought the jokes would be more like "a washing machine is not a person you know"
>>8150506
Calling someone a "maroufle" isn't a joke, sadly for that one dude, but an insult.
>>8150529
My exposure to it has really been just telling people I can barely hear the difference between a French and Canadian accent. The Swiss French accent sounds more distinct to me by quite a way. Hell the north/south thing sounds more obvious to me.
>>8150415
>Output before input
You learned in 6 months because you did a lot of hours in those 6 months not because of any stupid blog.
Your learning methods were inefficient at best. Stop shilling fluent in 3 months
