Reminder if you read IJ and not Ulysses you're part of the problem. /lit/ is going to shit and it's because of pseuds like you.
>people who actually read books are destroying /lit/
No, I think you'll find the opposite is true.
>>8124659
If you haven't read the entire meme trilogy you should stop posting until you have.
>>8124659
I agree with him.
However, I'd go as far as to say that Finnegans Wake should have pride of place over Ulysses.
>>8124681
I read IJ. If Moby Dick has aged poorly in terms of cetology, IJ didn't need to age to be poor at anything, it's just a bloated sack of shit that merely makes the readers feel "look at me, I'm so clever for reading this".
>>8124691
Agreed, but most faggots are too intimidated by The Wake to actually read it.
>>8124681
look at this pleb trying to bureaucratize /lit/.
he doesn't need to read shit, especially not IJ. stop wasting people's time with that shitty meme book.
>>8124709
The reason why I side with Finnegans Wake is that it is the perfect contrast. Superficially nonsense/babble/etc, but actually a work of unparalleled richness; linguistic (in every sense) and otherwise.
The other day, we had a thread on /lit/ where some Ukrainian(?) guy went into a section that saw Joyce incorporating the Ukrainian language into English wordplay that was actually logical and meaningful. Not only did the Ukrainian words sound like their English equivalent (to varying degrees), but also shared their meaning.
Joyce said that you could recreate Dublin from Ulysses, and the world or the universe (I can't remember which) from Finnegans Wake. He was probably right.
>>8124659
Eh, I've read meme trilogy before getting into real literature. It's a good stepping stone to practice book discussion here - remember the thread, coincedentally, with DFW's university course? It featured a lot of terrible low-brow lit, but he used it to teach literary analysis. Ironically, he became to /lit/ this exact low-brow author that helps discussion and basic forming of thought, more of a tool than a goal.
IJ is literally re ddit, the book. Any discussion of literature over there leads to a circlejerk over how it changed everyone's life.
>>8124730
He was Albanian, anon.
>>8124730
Just a bunch of puns.
>>8124730
Albanian. I remember because I am Albanian too, was going to post the translations instead of him since he had gone a day or so without responding, but couldn't because I was banned.
Anyway, can confirm he uses a few Albanian words in it successfully.
>>8124745
>30+ different languages
>just puns
lolk
No, it's because of people with dumbass rich wing views that /lit/ is going to shit.
>I don't like Infinite Jest
>>8124659
>Harold Bloom
Bloom sucks. He just sucks. The fact that he riled so much over new historic, feminist, and post colonial criticism of Shakespeare shows how much of an academic ole babby he is because anyone trying to use cultural criticism to interpret his favorite works as anything other than "perfect" makes him sperg the fuck out. I can't imagine he'd take a fancy to any post modern work save for maybe Lolita. I'd love to hear him rant about how terrible Gravity's Rainbow must be to him.
>>8124751
oh boy, if you think that the Albanian word play in the Wake is good, take a look at the Greek and Latin. It's everywhere and gets pretty ridiculous at times.
>>8124874
Fuck off, troll.
>>8124773
Hey we have nothing against Poor wingers as long as they stay in the poor wing. The fact they constantly try to enter Rich Wing Nations is why the world is going to shit.
Can't Fly richly with poor feathers.
>>8124773
I wish I was rich wing :(
>IJ BTFO
>DFW on suicide watch...oh wait
Harold Bloom, i.e the man who unironically uses Blood Meridian as a justification for his leftist stance on gun politics.
He is the definition of pseud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cuccco2umo
1:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cuccco2umo
>>8125001
>1cuccco2umo
>>8125001
>unironically uses Blood Meridian as a justification
You're not that smart, are you?
>>8124681
what if I haven't even read a single book of the meme trilogy?
I hardly read anything that was written after the death of Queen Victoria. I think my shitposting is just fine in spite of this limitation
>>8124664
It's a badge of honor IWBH
>>8124887
>anyone who doesn't value Blooms shitty flawed formalist opinions is a troll
ur dumb m8
>>8125361
You'd think so, but you'd be increibly wrong to think so. Read them or GTFO. Or GTFO until you've read them. It'll get you up to speed.
>>8125510
The problem is that you have no idea what Bloom's "shitty opinions" even are. You may be the dumbest person ever to post on 4chan. That's quite an accomplishment.
>>8125511
I read half of IJ, that was more than enough for me.
>>8125524
Defend Bloom's Bardolatry and inexorable stance when it comes to any cultural criticism against Shakespeare
>>8125545
It's weird. He tries to make Shakespeare whatever he wants him to be for a particular position, then gets pissed when SJW and their ilk try to do the same. Why is Bloom so provincial?
>>8125545
shakespeare INVENTED THE HUMAN retard
get good
>>8124659
>he can't think, he can't write
That's a comma splice. Ironic of him to accuse someone of not being able to write.
>>8126147
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_splice#Acceptable_uses
>Strunk & White notes that splices are sometimes acceptable when the clauses are short and alike in form
retard
>>8125510
Bloom praised Pynchon and called GR his masterpiece
>>8124880
Serbo-Croatian is also very dominant.
The very first page is done in the form of Slavic antithesis, a poetic device used in Serbian epic poetry.
Check out:
>http://www.finwake.com/1024chapter1/1024finn1.htm
Pasted from the glossary:
>pas encore (fr) - not yet + 'passencore = pas encore and ricorsi storici of Vico' (Joyce's letter to HSW) + The Slavic antithesis is a stylistic device used in Serbian epic poetry: "Oh, dear God! A great Wonder! / Is it thunder, is it the earth quaking? / Is it the sea which clashes 'gainst the coastland? / is it the vilas fighting over Popine? / It isn't thunder, nor is the ground shaking, / nor is the sea clashing against the coast, / nor are the vilas fighting over Popine; / It is the cannons, fired at Zadar."
He makes use of S-C words all the time. There's ''mishe mishe'' on the first page, too. Mish means mouse, for example.
I can agree with the anon who translated Albanian. It really is a joy to read when you understand the passage.
>>8124773
>Dumbass rich wing
>Pic of Rich Wing White Boy
Literally, wake up sheeple
>>8124659
I haven't read either
Get rekt fgt
>>8124694
I liked IJ and I don't feel the need to let people know that I've read it (the exception being now, of course). I also love DFW's essays.
I'll agree that IJ was bloated, even Mary Karr said something similar, but it's still a valuable book, IMO.
>>8124874
but mate pynchon is one of his favourite authors of the twentieth century
>>8124874
>The fact that he riled so much over new historic, feminist, and post colonial criticism of Shakespeare shows how much of an academic ole babby he is
Or it shows how much of a /lit/erati patrician he is, because he doesn't give your shitty 20th century (((theories))) the time of day.
>>8126518
>gets btfo
>still posting
gas yourself
>not realizing Bloom is the ultimate patrician
The only thing that irritates me with him is his "Shakespeare is the best that ever was or will be" but that's understandable and I partly feel the same.
Plus he's the coolest, perhaps the only cool, kind of Jew. The Kubrick/Kafka honest kind.
>>8125718
Crab mentality.
>>8124659
How can I trust Harold Bloom's opinion on anything other than he's old and he's read more books than I ever will in my lifetime?
Roger Ebert saw an innumerable amount of films in his lifetime but that didn't make his opinions any less worthless to me.
I don't understand the pseud/patrician dichotomy. It's just gay as fuck, it's all based on what tastes you have.
Of course I understand it's important to have standards of excellence within yourself and society and if you draw out those lines exclusively for yourself you can turn out a massive idiot.
What I am saying is why do we take it all so seriously? Why is it SO important to be "patrician" and not a "pleb"? Is it compensating for the lack of something more substantial in their lives?
>>8124709
They want another notch on the bedpost. FW is a mating for life.
>>8125545
I really feel in my gut of guts he finally felt he had some sort of theory at one point that would be like a wider ranging bicameralism with Shakespeare being the first primo example of self reflection or true awareness or something. Like the beginning of a truly individualised age. But then bicameralism failed and that gnostic novel shit was published and he got real real grumpy.
>>8128761
You should read T.S. Eliot's thoughts on literary criticism. People like Bloom give writers a starting point, without them many great works of literature would not have been possible.
>We assume the gift of a superior sensibility. And for sensibility wide and profound reading does not mean merely a more extended pasture. There is not merely an increase of understanding, leaving the original acute impression unchanged. The new impressions modify the impressions received from the objects already known. An impression needs to be constantly refreshed by new impressions in order that it may persist at all; it needs to take its place in a system of impressions. And this system tends to become articulate in a generalized statement of literary beauty.
>>8128839
More and more I understand why Joyce hated Eliot
>>8128852
>On a trip to Paris in August 1920 with the artist Wyndham Lewis, he met the writer James Joyce. Eliot said he found Joyce arrogant—Joyce doubted Eliot's ability as a poet at the time—but the two soon became friends, with Eliot visiting Joyce whenever he was in Paris.[29] Eliot and Wyndham Lewis also maintained a close friendship, leading to Lewis's later making his well-known portrait painting of Eliot in 1938.
wat, they were contemporaries.
>>8128839
Yes, a "starting point". Yet, still just a starting point. However, why should I trust this man's starting point if he hasn't proved himself as an author himself? If I was an author, I would be more inclined to trust the criticisms of a man who has more knowledge in the art of creating literature rather than the body of knowledge of literature itself.
Anyways, I feel like people will ride on the coattails of revered critics only to make themselves have a false sense of vindication for their "tastes", which probably were non-existent before the discovery of several critics. The same could be said of cultures and movements.
Of course I am not just impling "b ureslef lmao xd" don't get me wrong for one of those fuckers. However, all I am stating is if you take critics too seriously you won't be you will lack substantiality within yourself. If you fool yourself into thinking you are better than someone because of tastes you have constricted your mind with something down the line. At least that is my opinion of it at the moment, I could be wrong.
>>8128986
excuse my fuck up at the end there my brain is shitty and slow today, was rephrasing and forgot to delete a chunk of the previous phrase.
>>8128942
I would imagine that that excerpt is from an Eliot centric book given that Eliot was a Joyce fan boy. Joyce I don't think appreciated the present Eliot got him when Pound introduced them. And Woolf amd Eliot were good friends but Woolf really hated Joyce. Joyce actually wanted to sue Eliot for some shit but his agent talked him out of it. At best the feelings from Joyce were lukewarm.
And Proust was a jealous cock and Hemmingway was a great guy. Beckett is often depicted as a betrayer or something but I think they were alright really.
>>8129041
>Beckett is often depicted as a betrayer or something but I think they were alright really
yeah bc he wouldnt fuck joyce's clinically insane sister... im of the belief that Beckett's work trancends Joyce's
>>8128986
>why should I trust this man's starting point if he hasn't proved himself as an author himself? If I was an author, I would be more inclined to trust the criticisms of a man who has more knowledge in the art of creating literature rather than the body of knowledge of literature itself.
Idk, when author's turn critics they usually come off bad. Their egos get in the way-Nabokov pretty much shit all over everybody
>>8129041
>And Proust was a jealous cock
Umm what? Proust was completely ignorant of Joyce's existance. There was a story about Joyce seeing him at a party and going total fanboy when he meets him. He wants to chill with Proust after the party and Proust tells him to fuck off.
>>8129193
Daughter* and I think that's all bullshit. He used to visit her regularly at St Andrews and visit her grave regularly after she died. I think it helped that Northampton has a really good cricket team tho. But beyond just everyone being sad I don't think there was any ill will.
>>8129221
http://flavorwire.com/318990/when-marcel-proust-met-james-joyce
I am inclined to believe Joyce being a codgety old bastard farting and snoring and winding up the name dropping Proust. Joyce pulled fan boy shit with Ibsen and I think Hamsun?
>>8129255
i find it hard to believe that either was unaware of the other's work
>>8129291
Unreliable authors
>>8124664
>people who only watch and look forward to more capeshit aren't ruining /tv/
You're a fucking idiot. If the only books I read were garbage YA(redundant) or King or other shit I would hope someone would tell me to fuck off.
>>8129325
They managed to ruin the kino meme
>>8126195
The retard knows. He's just been shitposting that virtually every 5th thread
off topic question incoming...
on a ten day trip should I bring The Bible (KJV) or Infinite Jest?
>>8130028
neither
the Bible isn't exactly a book for going on trips
Infinite Jest is bad
>>8130031
>the Bible isn't exactly a book for going on trips
because its in every hotel so taking it is redundant or??
>>8130040
You might be different, but the Bible is something I need to feel inspired to pick up. It's not exactly a read before bed every night, mark your page with a bookmark type deal. Not ideal for trips, imo
>>8130052
>the Bible is something I need to feel inspired to pick up
That is a wacky af statement m8.
Memes and meta posts are ruining /lit/. Yes, we all know the memers don't read. But ones that actually read IJ and Ulysses can stay since they actually read. Who cares if you think they are pseuds, you're just a meta poster who doesn't want to make a thread on literature.
>>8128767
Such a strange post.
>>8130270
Yeah, I don't even know what I meant.
