The Illiad
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
About to begin reading The Illiad? Any tips, advice? Using the lattimore translation
Should I try to memorize the whole thing? If so, Greek or English? Do you think it would impress people? I know Mark Zuckerberg did that.
Anyways, general Illiad thread
>>8119240
>Any tips, advice?
Use summaries. Just normie ones you can easily find online. LOTS of shit happens, many parallel scenes, lots of names. Easy to get some things mixed up.
>Should I try to memorize the whole thing?
No...
Lattimore's great if you can read Greek. Can you? I definitely recommend selecting passages you find particularly striking and going through the original using the translation for help. Lattimore is very literal, shouldn't be too difficult if you're familiar with Homeric Greek. Geoffrey Steadman has written wonderful commentaries (from a purely grammatical and entry-level standpoint) which you can find online. For something more in depth, De Jong is a personal favourite. Enjoy!
>>8119240
>.
If you have the choice between Greek and English, why would you choose English? I assume the Greek would be closer to Homer.
The advice I have is not to feel bogged down by all of the patronymic writing, and the catalogue of ships. It is not necessary to recall minor and incidental characters.
>>8119240
H-h-have people on /lit/ actually memorized the Illiad? What autism level do I need to unlock this skill?
Sure. Assuming you are of normal intelligence, just time and practice. If you go back to Milton's time, they were so fucking immersed in these works they could spout them for days.
>>8119511
ditto
Listen to it on audiobook.
The classics were meant to be orated, not read
>>8119585
But... why the fuck would you want to memorize it at all?
Like, I get memorizing a few poems, and if there are passages that you really like go for it. But memorizing it just to memorize it? The fuck?
(Lattimore's a great choice btw)
>>8119240
expect certain names to be spelled differently
>Achilles: Achilleus
>Patroclus: Patroklos
>Menelaus: Menelaos
>Achaeans: Achaians
its a pain in the ass if you have to type a paper. You should also read Lattimore's translation of The Odyssey
>>8120345
Well, I was thinking it would impress people and be an attention grabber for a job interview or something like that.
>>8119240
Why is there the Trojan Horse on the cover image if this incident isn't described in the Iliad
>>8120777
>attention grabber for a job interview
What job? Unless you are trying to become a classics tutor this is more likely to cause people to perceive you as a tryhard autist. Lit should be enjoyed for itself not as a stunt.
not OP but Robert Hutchins memorized Goethe's Faust while he was playing border guard or something during WW1, and a teacher told me she had a friend who would memorize a poem a day. After I put those two together, I've wanted to start memorizing some sort of work myself since it seems to have some literary value in itself, I've yet to put it into action though.
>>8120866
fucking rusemasters
>>8121435
Do you think I should then?
I memorize random lists everyday for fun like 5 biggest cities in each European country, capitals of Africa, etc
Or are there any specific works of literature I should memorize instead?
Does anyone have links to the audiobook for the Lattimore translation of the Iliad?
>>8119240
I had never read the Iliad in English (Spanish's the main language) until I recently picked the Lombardo translation.
Really enjoyed it, he makes it a light read while poetic at the same time. Still, I plan to read another translator further on, any suggestions?
Also, to the anons asking about memorizing poetry: It really isn't that hard; a song cycle from the romantic period has usually about 500 lines of poetry and singers memorize dozens of them (in varying languages) during their careers.
>>8124359
I loved Lattimore's. I hear Fitzgerald's Iliad is the way to go though.
>>8124359
I read Fitzgerald's Iliad and Odyssey and loved both. I would recommend him.
>>8124359
Then what should we memorize, oh memorizing sage?
>>8120777
Try that one out on the ladies. Bitches get wet for alpha males who can recite the death of Hector in its original language.
>>8126935
I'm seriously considering. Unless any of you have other tricks to impress people with?
>>8127122
I juggle while reciting blackalicious' alphabet aerobics
>>8120777
Despite what everyone else is saying, there's really nothing wrong with memorizing passages of literature/poetry. It genuinely will impress some people, and it's a good thing anyways for, as they say, furnishing your mind with beauty. But bro, I know you're probably trolling, but don't try to memorize the whole Iliad. That's just stupid. Read it normally and if/when you run into passages you really like, try memorizing a few dozen lines. Maybe stuff like the intro, or Hector's death.
>>8127122
Memorize the dialogues from My Little Pony episodes and fan works. Beta males make fun of MLP because the alphas who watch it get all the girls.
>>8119240
Try English first.
Ancient Greek is useless and difficult.
Read the Odyssey, it's better than the Illiad.
The Iliad is just epithets/fights but not the good kind of fight, it's incredibly booooring.
>>8119240
> Should I try to memorize the whole thing?
For what purpose?
>>8127184
>Uses useless as a criticism for Ancient Greek
>The Iliad is just epithets/fights but not the good kind of fight, it's incredibly booooring.
>booooring.
Wow I know it's only June but you just won the Pleb of the Year Award! Congrats!
>>8127168
No I'm actually being legit; I have pretty damn good memory and was just wondering if memorizing the Illiad is worth doing
>>8127173
Stop, I only want to consider legitimate literature, please take your trolling somewhere else
>>8127581
It seems like a cool skill to have and a good conversation starter and attention grabber at party. Do you have suggestions for anything else that could do that instead?
>>8127729
It's a great conversation starter. If you think you can put in the hours then it's absolutely worth it!
>>8127729
>wanting to read something in order to get attention from randoms
congrats
>>8127958
>having this bad reading comprehension
I am reading for pleasure, memorizing more for the social benefits that may come. Any other things of literary merit I should memorize?
>>8119240
Check for the torrent by the Teaching Company on the Iliad or Homer, the lectures are taught by Elizabeth Vandiver iirc. It greatly enhances the story of the Iliad. There are so many things you miss out on if you can't read Greek or don't understand several key terms such as Kleos and Time.
>>8124979
I also just finished both epics as translated by Fitzgerald, amazing read. Lattimore is used in academic circles though since it is the more literal translation. Can't go wrong with either though.
>>8119511
Are you trying to imply that Boris Johnson, future Prime Minister of one of the most powerful nations on earth is an autist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQKRAJTgEuo
>>8128380
the koran m8
>>8128606
See how horny that woman next to him is? The body language betrays her uncontrollable lust for Boris' magnificent mane and flawless delivery of the Iliad.
>>8128606
>tfw never had a classical upbringing and education
feels bad to be a pleb
>lattimore
>>8119240
Lattimore is for purely academic study. I prefer the Fagles translation myself. It is extremely well put together.
Also, The Iliad is infinitely superior to the Odyssey. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't read the both of them.
>>8120777
This is CWC-level insanity.
>trojan horse
>iliad
>>8128977
>CWC-level
What's that?
>>8129177
Crazy wet cunts.
OP, you're going to get LAID if you memorise the Iliad.
>>8129177
Christian Weston Chandler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxpRkMxTMAE
>>8129210
Any other works you recommend to memorize that can create a similar effect?
I've still to read the Iliad, but does the trojan horse actually happen in it?
>>8129773
No. The recounting of the Trojan Horse is mostly in the Aeneid, actually. During the whole section about the fall of Troy. Probably one of the best sections of the Aeneid, actually.
>>8119240
i love this book cover
the *bones* of the trojan horse? seriously? that's at the very end original
>>8129815
if you're not going to leave, can you stop being a faggot and stating the obvious
>>8129815
except it's not relevant to the iliad at all
>>8119240
your a fucking homo
>>8129918
have homer compared men with bones? i don't recall
he certainly compared them with leaves
...would it be very surrealistic to draw the trojan horse with leaves inside his belly
>>8129950
the trojan horse does not appear in the iliad
>>8130003
so what? it's the most known symbol of the trojan war
>>8128895
>Lattimore is for purely academic study.
Ur wrong tho.
>>8128895
I personally preferred the odyssey as a narrative. I really enjoyed both but I found the iliad had parts where there was just lots of listing.
I read fitzgerald though so it may be a translation thing
>>8129765
Anyone? Please help and advise
>>8120866
>>8129773
The Trojan horse does not appear in the Iliad, but it is mentioned in passing in the Odyssey (when Odysseus is being entertained by the Pheacians, the bard sings about it.)
>>8128895
I have read both books and I prefer the Odyssey because it has more variety in terms of characters, themes and scenery. The Iliad is largely about Achilles' sulk, and various depictions of men being disemboweled.
.
Never read the Iliad, but read the Aeneid in school, and even in an English translation, the depths and beauty of the writing isn't lost. Read it in English, don't be a pretentious prick.
>>8119240
For the OP and anybody else who wants a sample of Fagle's Iliad translation, here is an excerpt from book 13 that I like.
When the Trojans saw Idomenaus fierce as fire,
him and his aide-in-arms in handsome blazoned gear,
they all cried out and charged them through the press
and a sudden, pitched-battle broke at the ship's sterns.
As gale-winds swirl and shatter under the shrilling gusts
on days when drifts of dust piled thick on the roads
and winds whip up the dirt in a sense of whirling cloud-
so the battle broke, storming chaos, troops inflamed,
slashing each other in bronze, carnage mounting,
manslaughtering combat bristling with rangy spears,
the honed lances brandished in hand and ripping flesh
and the eyes dazzled now, blind with the glare of bronze,
glittering helmets flashing, breastplates freshly burnished,
shields fiery in sunlight, fighters plowing on in a mass.
Only a veteran steeled at heart could watch that struggle
and still thrill with joy and never feel terror.
>>8133105
*on days when drifts of dust LIE piled thick on the roads
>>8133105
**dense swirling cloud.
I am discouraged from more transcribing by my shoddy typemanship and will humbly take my leave.
But you should all get the idea that Homer likes to describe battle in terms of metaphors that his audience would understand - metaphors taken from the elements, agricultural metaphors, animals. Men are compared to wolves, boars, and lions a lot.
I'm getting back into reading and picked up The Odyssey. Man I get a headache when people go into too much detail. Like when King Nestor is talking to Telemachos.
I don't know if I should just stick through it or read something easier.
>>8127122
While reciting the Illiad have one hands on your testicles (this is an ancient greek alpha male thing and where the word testimoney comes from) and the other hand on the woman you want to have sex with
This can come across as tryhard so to appear more natural swap your hands between the girl and your balls ever thirty seconds
>>8119240
The Illiad is honestly better taught then read on your own. If you can understand 100% of it alone then good on you, but theres a whole fucking lot of shit that happens, and I'm not even talking literally. Metaphors, asides, references to things that haven't even happened yet narratively, its just a whole lot.
Keep a notebook and chart down names, events, important things, passages and other stuff you like. I don't know if everyone does this, I don't do it usually myself, but doing it for the Illiad vastly improves it, I feel. Especially do it for the catalouges, even though it'll be a pain in the ass, it'll help you recognize names better besides Achilles, Odysseus and Ajax. People during Homers time listened for their City State to be represented, so you obviously wouldn't give a shit about Idomeneus or Meriones, who represented the Cretans since they're not vastly important to the story, but if you chart it down you realize they brought one of the lagest fleets to Troy and that the listeners within Crete might have rejoiced at hearing that they're representative was so important to the siege. As someone said earlier, this was meant to be heard, not read.
Try and understand the brutality within it. The Illiad might seem like an awesome tale of glory and honor if you read the wikipedia article or something similarly stupid, but really understand Achillies struggle between a peaceful life alive or the immortal glory if he dies. He did only choose the latter in a rage because his buttbuddy died after all.
Please pay attention to the fucking shield and armor. Those books are some of the most beautiful and interesting segments of The Iliad. I can't even explain how important they are and what they mean. Please notice them.
I'll relax and quell my autism for a bit. But I do love The Iliad. Try and appreciate it OP, it deserves that much.
Hector is my husbando
>>8132358
the Odyssey, Beowulf, basically any Shakespeare play
>>8134952
Sounds like great idea. Can you post pics of your notebook?
Try listening to it. It was orginally performed orally and was only written down later. Idk if that matters for the English translations for it but I had to read it for a Greek culture class and our professor recommended listening to an audio book and following along.
>>8128606
I can only remember the first 2-3 lines of the Odyssey and a few random lines from the Aeneid. Even then I don't remember what they mean or the language at all. :(
>>8135054
andromache, is it you?
because i know a thousand people are going to ask: here are the best translators of the iliads.
Bagles, Lettucemore, Chapstick, Edgar Allan Pope, and F Scot Fitzerglads
your welcome
how is the Stephen Mitchell translation?
>>8119360
Why would Lattimore be good if you know Greek, like lmao just read it in Greek nigga??
>>8119240
It'd be more impressive if you explained how there actually are three different accounts of Troy's war.
Reading the Iliad honestly requires one to have already constructed within their minds a fully realized framework of symbolic and allegorical imagery from fully realizing the entirety of the Greek Mythological canon within their active imaginations from Hesiod's Theogony to Homer. The Iliad is the fruition of eons of drama stemming from the interplay of the Olympians over the course of the various Ages. The Trojan Theater isn't merely the stage for the Trojan War, it is the stage for a Cosmic tragedy that encompasses all aspects of humanity within it's unraveling.
I've been reading it for years, and I'm still revealing to myself new and expansive understandings within it's structure that build upon what I had already known.
>>8133314
It's a key aspect of Nestor that he's long winded and over zealous in his speaking.
>>8137991
Because most people who know Greek know enough to be able to translate a passage from Homer slowly and with lots of dictionary aid. I have never met a person who could just pick it up and comprehend it. I'm sure there's some great authorities on the matter that con do that, but a lot of it would come from memory and repetition in that case. Unfortunately that's not how dead language learning works. So Lattimore is better for people who know Greek because it gives a much closer idea of what the original is like since it's quite literal.
Tl;dr: most Classics people are unable to casually read whole works in the original.
>>8135054
Hector is my papa
Right outside the walls I die : )
>>8139560
OK, thanks for the answer. I was actually wanting to learn Greek myself.
>>8139560
What would you recommend for other works of Greek, like Plato's, Aristotle's, etc?
>>8140667
>>8140685
It depends on each author. When I read Greek/Latin works in translation without looking at the original, I go for good (i.e., stylish, artful) ones. When I'm working with originals, I go for the most literal available.
Greek is fantastic, don't be discouraged. But realistically speaking, it seems very unlikely you'll be able to read whole works in the original. And this coming from a Classics student.
>>8138935
He does seem like a cunt. I'm on chapter/book 7 things are picking up now so I'll just stick through it.
Anyone have the link to the university page that talks about the different translators?
