/lit/ has an Infinite Jest summer reading book group, and it starts TODAY!
If you have an interest in this book -- whether you have read it or not -- please consider joining us!
We will be reading Infinite Jest from June 3rd (today) – August 11th with an average pace of 15 pages a day.
Discussions will take place right here on /lit/, hopefully we will keep a thread floating around most of the time, but should activity slow down new threads will be made Friday for discussion to avoid daily spamming of dying threads.
TODAY'S READING is pages 3 - 17, scenes 1- 5. Full schedule to follow this post.
*Infinite Jest is widely available in bookstores and in free ebooks formats online
NEWCOMERS, SIGN IN
http://www.strawpoll.me/10356218
SCENE BY SCENE GUIDE:
>http://faculty.sunydutchess.edu/oneill/Infinite.htm
REFERENCE SITE:
>http://infinitesummer.org/
full schedule, Day 1 being, of course, June 3rd
Reposting last year's poll, rereaders weigh in
http://strawpoll.me/4625366
caught one of these on time, lets see if this meme is alright. first of all of course:
>I am seated in an office, surrounded by heads and bodies.
what did he meme by this?
>>8117901
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synecdoche
didn't you go to high school?
>>8117901
Really put me off instantly - the kind of thing that you'd see undergrad creative writing students come up with. Meant to show he's disconnected from those around him, I suppose, but it's no good, is it? Just comes across as silly.
>>8117901
You know what, I'll go against the grain and claim he was trying to explain Hal'sconsciousness dissociation caused by Pemulis's airborne drug poisoningvia the reiteration of Cartesian mind/body dualism.
>>8117883
ts a pretty peculiar first chapter.
btw does anyone have the reading schedule for the electronic version?
>>8117949
how is that going against the grain? That's obviously what DFW was going for.
>>8117991
I was referring to the two posts above mine. Yes, it's obvious - it's also a great feat of POV writing, since Hal himself may not be able to understand humans as whole, unitary beings (which I think it's DFW's emphatically empathetic view) anymore, due to his fractured state.
>>8118024
Hal himself is alsopart head (well-read) part body (tennis champion)
though I'm not sure if that would be reading too much into it now.
>>8117951
is the first chapter in the electronic version from pages 2 to 22 or 23?
it seems to be the case for me, it's not a bother though
>>8118052
Shit, that's right. Never thought about how this dualism goes deeper than apparent. You know, if we're willing to keep going, I think a similar point could be made for Eschaton (it being a supremely intellectual game that, though, has to be balanced by physical precision and prowess), Steeply/Marathe schtick (they're both minds/souls devoted to their purpose, while their bodies are naturally (apparently) inimical to it) and drugs could be thought of as the great Rejoinder, putting these two parts of being back together through their effect. And well, let's not forget Madame Psychosis, which is an egregious example of this separation. Or Orin. Or Found Drama.
...fucking hell.
>>8118056
its from 9 to 30
ok so i suppose its just moved forward 7 pages compared to your version, mines got the dave eggers introduction.
Lessons learned so far:Eating mold is bad for you.
I might have to join in just because my copy is sitting there collecting dust and it's a good opportunity to tackle it, but I'm also in the middle of reading Gravity's Rainbow so it might be difficult.
>>8118212
Well 15 pages daily is not much honestly, I read 40 or 60 per day last summer and had plenty of time to spare. Also did with English not being my firat language, so I'm willing to say you can probably do it.
Just read the first chapter, it was more entertaining than I thought it would be.
>>8118093
Thanks for the link, I should have read OP more carefully.
OK lads, let's get meme'd.
>>8117883
Sounds like it could be a lot of fun, was going to read Infinite Jest when Wimbledon was on to make it more fitting but reading together with /lit/ could be great.
>>8118519
I actually quite like our cover over the US edition, I just don't think the blue sky and clouds is all that fitting but ours really sells it.
I-i don't own it.
;_;
>>8119116
Then download a pdf
I am a southamerican boy and i dont have money to buy the book neither i can get it in my country i am reading the pale king can someone send it to me? I would be glad.
>>8119250
sent :)
>>8119250
How am I supposed to send it to you if there is no way to contact you?
>>8119250
You'd just be "glad"? Not even depend adult undergarment?
>>8117883
I'm about to marathon these 15 pages. What should I expect?
>>8119337
Something about chairman mao and high on xanax while ruling communist china.
Wow, it just came in the mail today, what perfect timing. Infi/lit/ summer
i'm not sure i follow exactly what is wrong with Hal's transcript
it has been dickied? is it that his grades have dropped recently but he submitted fake papers with fake grades to the university?
>>8119116
>eBook is 12.99 T_T
Guess we'll have to hit up our libraries, anon.
>>8119591
Just download it off some torrent site and put it on your ereader
>>8119512
His standardized test scores are really bad, considering his great grades and his highly academic sample essays.
>>8117921
It's not a synecdoche
>>8119591
literally google 'Infinite Jest PDF' or go to bookzz
>>8117901
I always thought he just meant it literally, Hal being exact with language, the body plus head being the visible parts above the table.
the dmz did it
>>8119512
>>8119629
this, but to be more specific, his standardized test scores are bad and those are the only actually verifiable scores of his' i.e. they weren't obtained in the school ran by his mother and uncle (ETA). and the papers could also have, as deans argue, easily been falsified.
The real reason why Hal's standardized test scores are bad are, of course, because they are the most recently done, the implication being that he was already starting to lose his mind when he was to do them.
The papers are legit Hal's work if I understand correctly.
>>8119708
>lose his mind
why do people say this? it's clearly loss of motor control
>>8119708
Right, but I'm trying to avoid any hint of spoilers or prescience for the presently-being-initiated.
Naturally, the poorness of both his most recent grades and his scores is not coincidental.
The papers are from before the "decline", which I think Hal's narration explicitly states (albeit not in terms of a decline, but before the present year of bad grades or some such).
When he said that percentage (62.5%) I took off in my head for a minute and calculated in my head how many people have to be there and how many of them are looking at him (I'm a physicist by trade, so I guess that's why)
62.5%
62.5 / 100
(60+2.5) / 100
2 * (60+2.5) / (2 * 100)
(120+5) / 200
(12*10+5) / 200
(12*2*5+5) / 200
(24*5+5) / 200
(24+1) * 5 / 200
(24+1) / 40
25 / 40
5*5 / (4*10)
5*5 / (4*2*5)
5 / (2*4)
5 / 8
so 8 people and 5 looking at him.
OP (Peemster?) could you make a link to the new thread that one can search here tomorrow?
This way I don't have to search the categlog but only Strg+F your name (better yet, add "new thread" to the name)
>>8119777
surely there was an easier way to calculate that, mr "satan trips + 100 + 11 + 2 - 9 -4 + 11 + log100 - log100"
So I read it about 3 years ago during the summer and as soon as I finished it, I wanted to reread it but never did.
But, right now, its being used to lift the clock on top of the bookshelf in my living room (that isn't even used for books) so that the clock can be completely seen. Its covered in dust. Maybe next year.
>>8117883
Please stop
>>8119913
Go away, faggot
Go write your "masterpiece"
lmao
Should I finish these Solzhenitsyn short stories first, or should I should I just dive into The Jest?
>>8120255
finish Solzhenitsyn... jest might take you about a month of exclusive reading, so no point in wasting any time you put into the short storites... unless u absolutely hate them
>>8120261
Additionaly my translation is 442 pages longer, and I'm very busy at the moment which means that I will lack behind if I even attempt to finish Solzhenitsyn first
>>8119293
Gently chuckled
In just the first few pages we get a profile of a very perceptive boy, named Hal. From the very first line of the book we get a conceptual and rather unnecessarily detailed look at three admissions officers who, for several pages, discuss Hal in the abstract while barely acknowledging his presence. This separation is the beginning of a long-running motif of broken-down communication. It is also extraordinarily postmodern. Every sentence, even down to the reluctance of the Deans to admit someone in so obviously faked their grades for both the material gain of the institution and even how Hal presents himself alludes to Hal being a mere result of others' work. He claims that other people would pull him through the experience, the deans have their own agenda, and for the most part he remains entirely silent. This goes back to a model we have in literature, where the debate is either society makes the person or the person is already their own person (nature vs nurture, basically), and very clearly Hal is being built up by everyone in his life. Hal is being nurtured. He is not even in control of his own future and when he attempts to argue his body fails him. Not his brain. This first chapter is about weakness and strength, but it is pointedly physical.
Then we have the abstraction of what a person *is*, what with the "jacket's biceps" (9), the "smile's teeth" (5), which at first glance is synechdoche but is more likely just an abstraction, a sort of conciousness that the author is creating where actions and objects are personified rather than the people.
And that's a very interesting idea indeed, how the characters seem to be less human than their actions.
>>8121389
also the Metamorphosis connection
>I do things like get in a taxi and say, "The library, and step on it."
Are you fucking kidding me?
>>8122407
what, you've never done that?
>>8120288
>translation
Casual.
>not reading IJ from September - December
The prose in this book feels pretty choppy. I don't know if I like it or not desu senpai.
>>8122671
you do
>Year of Depend Adult Undergarment
fuck me this is exactly how I am/was whenever I had weed. Not the excessive amounts but the paranoia and social isolation. Am I in for a ride of feels /lit/?
>>8119777
I'd've just applied 62.5% to numbers starting with 7 until it hits something natural, but I'm an engineer by trade.
>>8122838
I think he described the addiction process very precisely. Only for me it wasn't weed but porn, it still hit too close to home.
>>8122838
strap in m8, it gets worse
I cringed pretty hard when Hal started talking, that whole paragraph or two made me want to hold DFW's hand and tell him to stop trying to nonchalantly sound witty
what did he mean
>The yellow administrator's usage is on the whole undistinguished
page 4
>sitting in the chair to what i hope is my immediate right
page 3
>>8123363
i thought that the point was for you to cringe
maybe im projecting but i felt like the reason Hal had the seizure (or whatever happened) was because he was cringing at what he was saying so hard
>>8123399
both are in 4th paragraph of respective pages
what did he mean by his "usage"
>>8123444
no less real for us that 3rd worlders problems are for them
>>8122884
>addiction
>weed
Did Wallace buy into the Reefer Madness type PSAs that hard, or did he smoke and genuinely use it as an excuse to be a lifeless waste of space?
Another /lit/ book of the month? What happened to those Greek ones we were supposed to read?
>>8123490
Except that suburbanites are better privileged to cope with their struggles, having better access to shelter, wealth, knowledge, groups, and institutions, to support them. But they often achieve fuck all with those. Consequentially in third worlder's eyes, they don't deserve their privelege, which is completely reasonable.
This is one of the factors why critics don't take DFW seriously. I'm calling Cancer on IJ. Get cucked, fags.
>>8123533
>This is one of the factors why critics don't take DFW seriously.
source?
>>8123363
So give us an example of good nonchalantly sounding witty then. Any example of trying to sound witty, when approached with that attitude, will be cringe.
>>8122671
Ok, I give up. This feels like something some liberal arts creative writing major would write. It could get better, but I'm just not feeling it.
>>8117883
<actually reading infinite meme
<i have no face and i must post
The prose in this is terrible. He knows a lot of big words but not how to place them.
My local library only has Oblivion: Stories in it's stacks. I have not read any Wallace before. Should I read Oblivion first, or order another book (Infinite Jest) first?
>>8123363
Someone that tries to sound nonchalantly witty, is what the character is consciously supposed to be though.
>>8123863
That's perfectly valid. I was responding to the phrase someone used: "trying to write witty", as if there were good witty characters that didn't sound cringe and dfw's hal wasn't one of them. I thought about it a second and realized that if you go in with that attitude of oh this is going to be so pretentious and college creative writing then literally any so called witty character ever is going to look cringe. So maybe the issue is in that attitude rather than with hal.
>>8123867
I read Infinite Jest first and it was fine. I don't think it makes a big difference if you've read his other stuff.
>>8122671
To be fair, the narrative voice changes a lot, and Hal who the novel starts on is very near autistic.
But then DFW just isn't a very good prose stylist anyways. Not sure what you were expecting. Nobody reads Infinite Jest for the prose.
>>8123904
Yeah, you've got a point there, anon. I'll do my best to keep an open mind
>>8123363
Hal isn't supposed to be cool ...
>>8122838
just for future reference YDAU is kind of the novel's narrative present
im guessing you're referring to the erdedy chapter but most chapters in this book are year of depend adult undergarment
Great. I'm in. Last summer it was a good read.
This is no way original analysis, but since we're discussing the start of the book may as well mention there's a bit to unpack in the first few words:
"Who's there?" - first two spoken words of the play Hamlet
"I am" - first two words of IJ.
There are tons of references to Hamlet through IJ, so to start off with an exceptionally cheeky one is appropriate.
The first phrase ("I am in here") should also be unpacked separate from its literal meaning. As would only be clear in retrospect, Hal suffers from, let's say, a severe existential crisis of self. Others in this thread have already pointed out how these early pages are laying out how the novel will be about what is there really to a person? Is there an "I" in there? Hal's first words to us, the reader, are that indeed there is someone in here...
It's crazy how much the book's early pages blatantly address its conclusion. Feels very smug as if DFW is saying "this book is so long and confusing I can spoil it now and noone will remember" - and he'd be right.
Some big reveals in the first 20 pages, and by page 200 pretty much all the cards are in place.
>>8124165
This is so tenuous it seems like a joke.
Points for creativity, I guess, but grunts and strains so hard to reach.
THEORY: michael pemulis uses a fake name and is the younger brother of Lenore Beadsman - after beingexpelled from ETArather thangoing homehe goes toAmherstMA, and attendsAmherst Collegewhere he sells drugs under the alias Antichrist
my proofs: they are the same character and dfw is a hack who reused antichrist in infinite jest and just changed his name
>mfw last year I was on IS but got lost somewhere around page 200, let everyone go and finish
>still trying to tackle it, by page 400
Should I restart with you nguys, or just stick around until this year IS catches up with me?
DUDE WEED LMAO GO AWAY DAD GO BACK TO SLEEP MARIO
what a fucking bad parent Himself seems to have been though, holy shitalso, is this tripfagging a joke or does the guy really think we give a shit about his tripfag rapport
>>8117883
I gave it a go lads, read the first two chapters.
Didn't think they were necessarily bad just nothing special to warrent the commitment.
Anyone want to try convince me to stick it out a bit longer?
>>8124518
Would it be redundant to tell you "it picks up"?
Judging a book by .02% of its length is kind of absurd, but if the subject matter doesn't interest you and you're not digging the writing style I suppose it's not worth the time.
>>8123399
he meant the usage of language
like not complicating his sentences unnecessarily as some academics do
as for the second part maybe it had to do with not knowing right from left? Or he had decreased awareness so he assumed and didn't bother verifying? That bit was more of a stream-of-consciousness sentence I think
>>8123399
he's hoping CT doesn't leave because he's relying on CT to get him through the interview
it's like a little kid who wants their parent at their side, but not wanting to make himself obvious in his discomfort or reliance on CT, Hal isn't turning to make sure CT is still there,
>>8124507
>also, is this tripfagging a joke or does the guy really think we give a shit about his tripfag rapport
you're probably talking about me, huh
don't see why you wouldn't filter me then
>>8124649
Sorry man, its a big ass book and its your word against Bloom's, going to need better than that
>>8124696
I think you're confused, I don't give a shit whether you read it or not.
>>8124518
For me, the most appealing aspect of the book is the mystery. Besides the obvious question of the nature of The Entertainment, there are a half dozen other significant threads that I was eager to see more of. That's what kept me going the first time through.
>>8123831
you know nothing about prose
quit pretending
>>8124696
>Bloom
That old hack isn't relevant here honey.
>>8124794
He is if I say he is
already on page 100
eat my dust pseuds
>>8124926
says the guy reading Infinite Meme
Why is it that all characters so ar so fucking paranoid?
>inb4 post-modern
I apologize for poor picture quality, but I don't have a Apple™Iphone®
>>8123500
I'll assume you've read the Erdedy bit, not only in the beginning, but when he goes to the meeting for weed addicts and gets a hug. And then the bits in the eschaton passage where Hal is high. And even more importantly, footnote 269 a)...
We could get into debate about addiction, but addiction to weed IS a thing, ESPECIALLY if you're coming off another drug (opiates in my case). Ik it's anecdotal, but personally I've been there, having the feeling, the needing, to get high, and then getting trapped in that marijuana paralysis, labyrinth of thinking.
>>8119116
get out
What the fuck is a medical attaché? Is it a burger thing?
>>8125073
Well an attaché is a forgeiner assigned to an overseas area as a liaison.
It's usually used in terms of military/Intel focus but I'd assume he's there to interact with the medical field.
>>8125280
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=attache
>>8125368
delete this, retard
why reply if you haven't even read the post? and so smugly, of all the possible sentiments
>>8123867
Oblivion is amazing, and the stories serve as a good introduction to his style and ideas.
>>8124787
It's true though.
>>8125201
Are those an actual thing though, is more what I was trying to get at? Was it just DFW pseud-ing or is it an actual thing in real-life, or is it a dystopic element? What would the job description of a medical attaché even be?
I can understand that academics of medicine occasionally travel around the world and hold lectures, or that there's maybe sometimes an exchange of doctors between two countries, or that missions of doctors are occasionally sent to somewhere in the 3rd world; but a "medical attaché" sounds literally as if one country's department of health was somehow having direct diplomatic communication with another country's department of health or something (which doesn't make much sense).
>>8125396
He deleted his post so I can't reread it, but I really don't know what you're on about.
I saw people three posts deep into a conversation about whether DFW made up a new meaning for the word attache and decided to put an end to it?
>>8125435
you can't reread it?
that's funny because the "he" was me and I have reposted the same exact text one post above your post right now.
the fact that you can't even recognize it, is pretty sad for someone who has replied so disrespectfully and with a "I'm sure you didn't google this before asking but I actually don't even know what your question was" attitude.
how about you decide to put an end to *these* kinds of discussions instead?
Time to get comfy
>>8125485
How does the definition provided to you by google not answer your question? Yes medical attaches are a real thing, and their purpose is to provide specialized consulting or rulings to an ambassador. Don't make a federal case out of it.
>>8125417
Oh fuck me if I know.
>>8125505
I just don't see how it's helpful that we start going the "I deem this question dumb" route, especially in a book discussion. It seems like something pretty against the ettiquette of the setting.
>Yes medical attaches are a real thing, and their purpose is to provide specialized consulting or rulings to an ambassador.
(thanks for this proper reply, for example)
What does then Moms have to do with medical attachés so badly that she got involved with thirty of them?
>the intelligent but quiet teenager finally snaps and tells off all the big dumb adults
>except he doesn't and is actually so socially incapable he has a seizure
lmao
YEAR OF THE DEPEND ADULT UNDERGARMENT
The whole chapter is practically 2 paragraphs. Wtf DFW, break that shit up.
"200 grams—120 grams cleaned, destemmed"
Stems do not weigh that much unless they sold you branches.
Also, his prose sounds like he wrote this when he was high. Seems entertaining enough so far, though.
>>8126292
I was bothered by this too. I've smoked some shitty weed, but I've never lost 80 grams (or proportional equivalent) in seeds and stems.
I remember reading once about how DFWs version of AAVE got him a lot of criticism because it's not technically a real dialect but now that I'm reading it it looks likes he's being phonetic to convey how urban dialect sort of trails off when they are trying to say "crying" and "said" as "cry" and "say"
>>8126390
I worth further describe the second syllable of these conjugated verbs as like a ghost note, crying as CRA-hh
It just always seemed weird to me that he'd get shit for something as apparently dumb as this when he wrote a book on urban linguistics, never say right with me but I think I know what he's trying to do now
>and but so
>>8126292
that chapter made me think he got some really shitty weed
Ive never done anywhere close to 100s of bong rips and been alive
>>8117883
I can burn through this faggot shit in 3-4 hours with my newly acquired speed reading skills. Spoilers incoming t-minus 4 hours. Get ready for the fucking storm, faggots.
>>8117883
what the fuck did happen from 33-49? most of these scenes felt real dense, especially the last one.
>>8117883
If you haven't already read IJ, preferably twice, you should stop posting a lurk moar desu.
I mean, who hasn't read IJ by now, come on.
>>8126837
Memery aside, I think that's why this thread has so many posts: lurkers coming out of the woodwork.Not sure whether that's a good thing, mind.
I can't help but laughing every time I see "The Moms"
Infinite Je - experimental French Canadian novel about Quebecois seperatism
Am I supposed to understand what all of these abbreviations are?
>>8128367
Some yes, some no but rather only in retrospective.
>>8128367
Most are explained later in the book, but you can gloss over most regardless.
Should i do this this year? It's either this or I start reading poetry. Please help.
>>8128471
Do both, anon.
What sort of poetry would you be reading?
>>8128502
I'm reading Fussel's guide to metre and form.
Then I was just going to read whatever.
>>8128516
That looks pretty interesting. I'd stick with it, unless your urge for DFW is really strong. It's a big commitment if you're a slow reader or if you have limited time.
question for rereaders
what the fuck is with the not-cardboard cutout on page 224
i've read the book twice and i still don't get it, well, besides that it ismarathewith theinfinite jest- but why
>>8119777
Or just realizing that 62.5=50+12.5
50 --> 1/2 & 12.5---> 1/8 so 62.5=5/8
>SPFFFT. 'Here you are. Drink up.'
>'Thanks. SHULGSHULGSPAHHH... Whew. Ah.'
...
>'MYURP. Excuse me.'
This fucking guy
'How did you know I was interested in Byzantine erotica?'
>year of the trial sized dove bar
What the hell is this? Do I need to decipher this part or can I just read through quickly and figure it out later?
>>8119777
>mfw grabs Ti-84 and types in 62.5/100
>Math->Frac
Done Desu
>>8131218
how is this not just something you immediately intuit?
Gately gets shot by Canadians and goes to hospital.
>>8132309
But that's wrong,he gets shot by one Canadian.
>>8132429
But if there were only one Canadian, Gately most likely could have handled him, so the other Canadian's presence are instrumental in his being shot.
>>8122407
> not getting the humour
>>8123405
As in English language: http://esl.fis.edu/grammar/easy/usage.htm
Hal's mom is obsessed with grammar.
>>8117883
*jests infinitely* LMFAO
>>8124384
Feel free to stick around and discuss past scenes with us.
I'm on the 9th of May and I think I read Hal ramble about his parent's backstory.
>>8117901
Consider the following: heads are the academics and bodies the tennis teachers? Does that make sense?
>>8132794
Nice, that makes sense.
Charles Tavis is referred to as a Headmaster too.
Other bodies could also be a student/academic body.
>>8132914
well, CT ismario's fatherso he can't be too smart
>day 4
>already 3 days behind
>>8123399
On usage: the guy is using words that don't exactly fit the situation. Larger words than necessary that don't actually communicate any more precisely than shorter more common words. For example, the [unintelligible]. His usage is "undistinguished" because he's a tryhard pseud.
>>8132922Isn't the point mario is retarded that the relationship was incest
>>8133440obviously yes, ignore that guy
>>8133440yes, and, CT is Avril's brother
also King Claudius
>>8133512>not calling her the Moms>pointing out a painfully obvious Hamlet similarity
advanced, related spoiler, don't open if first read:there's even a ghost of Himself appearing sometimes later on if I'm not mistaken
>>8133540
if my point was obvious why say to ignore me?
>>8133573
it's not the same point, smartypants.
you said thatmario having special needs implies that CT is not too intelligent himself
>>8133581
*It's not too intelligent toimpregnate your sister.
Wait a minute, the scene guide says we don't know who's the guy having the nightmares on scene 19. I though that was supposed to be Hal? Makes sense after the description of his paranoia of getting caught with weed on the ETA.
>>8133591
oh,fair point then.
although of course >muh emotions, but I agreethe upper class should still be expected to know better than that
>>8133594
BZZZT!!! - sorry friend, but whatabaout the homesickness? how do you get homesick at boarding school when your parents run the school?
i don't think it's anyone specific is the thing, only that, it's pretty much anyone BUT hal
>>8133609
True that, I got caught up at the ending of that description (iirc I dreamt of that in the night following), but on second read it couldn't be Hal. But the feeling of the scene fits so well, it's weird.
>>8118169
Wait, I missed that. Was that in the beginning?
dood im pumped for this. Hard to read some scenes because dfw likes to jack off on his pages. I started reading it last week and came across this thread. A little bit behind but gonna give it my best. Damn, this book speaks to me, perpectually cracking my mind open to philosophy and the corruption of modern culture (r.e. why I'm so depressed)
>>8133857
I think he means the second scene, when Hal was a little kid
>>8118169
Or so says The Moms ... what makes you think it really was bad for Hal?DMZ is a mold derivative, did Hal give himself autism by accidentally doing DMZ as a little tyke?
>>8134060
odds are DFW is just pseuding it out and expecting you to take at face value that eating mold *maybe* did partially contribute to Hal's emotional state in YG, and that we shoudn't try to uncover the proper medical reasoning behind it because no reasoning had even been done by DFW when he wrote it.
>>8123363
>2016
>not understanding the separation between character and author
Maybe you should wait until you finish high school to read this one buddy
>>8124696
What does it mean for you to persist in the face of something pushing you out? Do you think eventually it will give, or will you?
>>8123363
When I speak it is only an effort to convince you I'm clever.
True or false?
If True, my appearing like I'm only trying to SEEM clever is a failure. Why?
>that footnote with all James' films
>>8117883
is this book hard to read? Im not used to reading that much but this seems interesting
>>8135182
nah it's honestly easy senpai
only people who call it hard like to stroke their own egos and pretend they read ""real literature""
not used to reading? what are you used to? i'm sure you'd be fine if you had the interest to see it through the book's length
i was in one of these maybe 4 years ago
7/10, was ok, would do it again i think
I've read this book 10 times.
I've never met another person who isnt a trendy pleb or a complete zany-loving retard who read this book, therefore very few people actually understand it.
Its a smart book but the whole marketing strategy of the book was kind of its undoing which is sort of ironic considering the over-all point of the book that almost no one undestands.
>>8117883
>Its a smart book but the whole marketing strategy of the book was kind of its undoing
What "marketing strategy"?
>>8135512
the whole "see what everyones talkng about" strategy which is very manipulative and a huge example of the big game capitalism and our society is playing on us
Its kind of what the book is warnign about, but its a necesary evil as this seduction is part of the poiint
>>8134196
of course thats not what drove hal insane, the mold isnt real, its a metaphor you fucking tard.
But wait heres the twist that divides boys from men: the whole book isnt real
so am i wrong or am i right?
>>8133353
cumon step it up!!
>>8135521
Do you have any evidence of IJ being marketed that way?
>>8135667
For starters im not a retard.
Just take a look how often these kind of reading groups occur around this book, especially on this board.
On top of that the intiial push by Little brown made it out to be a revolutionary book before hardly anyone had read it, the size alone was a major cause for this. Hype built this book from that point and to this day it feeds on that hype by remaining mostly unfinished by most readers, thus enhancing the challenging and forbidden draw the book has.
Its a marketing strategy that pulls in readers and if you've actually read this book you'll see why such appeals might be kinda misleading.
>>8135667
Dave has spoken at large about his dissatisfaction with the marketing. The reviews coming out before there'd been time for reviewers to really read it. Sold on novelty and rumor. It's big! It's hip! The author is a real normal guy, a recovering addict! It's craaaaazy confusing!
That said the guy you are replying to is just fucking with everyone trying to be as pretentious as possible I'm pretty sure.
>>8135687
hey man, call me prententious all you want.
Im probably the most definitive expert on this book you'll meet but hey, whatever man im pretentious because i know what i know. fuck you
>>8135696
Ok Mr. Expert. What real event inspired DFW to write Hal's "breakdown" scene?
>>8135700
According to DT Max his college entrance interview in which he threw up but this probably isnt 100% true.
(Im actually a corresondent of Max so fuck oyu twice)
The intro was written as a substitute for the interview with his father that Pietsch thought would have been too confusing. This scene was one of the last even written.
>>8135703
>being a megalomaniac
>>8135753
If you only knew bro
>>8135526
I can maybe understand that Hal was based on DFW and that DFW hadn't eaten mold in real life, but what does that have to do with anything?that doesn't mean Hal didn't eat it.and also, that's not called a metaphor.
Am I missing something? What would the mold possibly be a metaphor for?
(Also, I don't think you read my post correctly. I literally suggested that it was intentionally left ambiguous by DFW because he thought it was above the point what actually caused the mental state (or rather, that it was probably a combination of things). Fuck you if you don't think that that's a valid opinion just because your obsessive sperg ass doesn't like it.)
Why does dfw keep describing medicine bottles? This is kind of boring. I'm enjoying the book so far though.
I'll join you nerds on the 21st
>>8136082
Hal couldnt have eaten it because he's not a real person you dummy.
Thats the point, obviously its supposed to be ambiguous but the mold itself is a meta-concept, its not explained (like 25% of the story)
DMZ, this eye-opening drug, is a mold that grows on a mold.
Think about how mold grows, where it comes from, why and where it forms.
Its a metaphor for the nature of the book, the point if you will, you pleb
Kate Gompert scene was really moving today.
Are you guys reading the book or just shitposting? Honest question.
So far so good. It's really hard to read at points, if I'm being honest though.
I get the whole "intentionally leaving out commas in sentences that last like five lines" thing and the "throwing in an occasional 'and but so'" thing, but Christ, it's getting on my nerves already.
Realistically, could he not convey what he's trying to convey in a more efficient manner? It seems like there is no reason why he can take so many paragraphs or pages to describe things in such a 'silly' or 'unique' way.
Pls help me enjoy this "prose" properly
>the mold caused hals emotional state
you don't think it's more likely that he originally ate this mold because of his emotional state? inability to feel disgust for it? that the event is significant because it shows how hal has been different, the way he is since forever?
>>8136931
It seems to me he intentionally makes it hard to understand whenever the situation depicted in the book is tense and stressed, because then you get stressed out for feeling stupid.
>>8136942
Yeah, a lot of the writing style is trying to reflect the overload of information in the modern world (EG: the endnotes)
>>8136931
>intentionally leaving out commas in sentences that last like five lines
Those parts feel like they're that way to reflact how your mind works on stress situations. Like on the ending of the nightmare scene, your brain doesn't stop a second to grasp whats going on; it just absorbs and absorbs the situation until it ends.
I was talking to some college colleagues last week about Infinite Jest and they were saying how the book is the highest form of expression and how important it is for liberal arts students. All because it portrays academic life as it is, it's honest about how students behave in their academic life, drugs, depression, this shit.
Now I wonder. Most of them never read the book. Did Infinite Jest become the same very thing it was warning us about?
>>8137153
No? White Noise 'warned us' about the most photographed barn. Infinite Jest 'warned us' about a movie akin to The Ring that will fucking kill you.
In what way is your colleagues talking about something they haven't read what Infinite Jest 'warned us' about? You think lying about what you've read is anything new?
>>8137004
>>8136942
I think you guys are just reading too much into it and sincerely want to believe that if something is off, it's only because Big Dave made it so consciously.
If I were to believe you, you'd have to provide an explanation for the ebonics chapters. What purpose do they serve, what sort of feeling are they supposed to evoke, according to Dave's genius?
>>8136942
>>8137069
I guess that makes sense, but that still doesn't really excuse how often it happens.
Most chapters have big sections of text like that, so that would mean he intentionally made something stressful to read, which as an artistic statement sounds great, but when it comes down to reading it, isn't it exactly the opposite of what he intended for it to be: an accessible and entertaining book that still has academic value?
the filmography basically reveals the chronology (of subsidized time), doesn't it?
>>8137327
>accessible and entertaining
is this supposed to be one phenomenon though allright heh?--- *grimaces* ok no I understand ok ahhh-- *grimaces* and but so --ughh--- ohhh --ahhh--*grimaces* w-wait, w-wait, am I making any s-sense whatsoever? *grimaces* *smiles condenscendingly*
ah okay *sincere facial expression*
>>8137309
How about you go fuck yourself. I'm not here to humour idiots.
>>8137309
It's not unheard of for an author to do this, and I think he pulled it off, but it was tiresome and redundant
like a drug addict/depressedfag eyyyyy lmao
>>8137309
The narration is very much supposed to reflect the depicted characters own thoughts even though it's 3rd person. for examplein gately chapters black people are referred to as niggers.
I think it uses this incongruity of perspective to a very interesting effect at the end/beginning.
>>8137799
I think the Wardine section is throwing the reader in the deep end to that regard
IJ is one of the most pretentious books I've ever read
What is its purpose? To talk about "muh weed addikshun" or "muh tenis" or "muh pretty plot structure" (see attached (warning: SPOILERS) or "muh postmodern" or "da future of american culture"?? The prose is nothing incredible and the plot is way too fucking complicated. It's like playing some obscure video game where you have to write down every detail that happens and every single key code because at the end of the game you will be quizzed on every single fucking detail mentioned. (Seriously: if you are going to take one thing from this post, TAKE NOTES WHILE YOU READ Infinito Jesto, you're going to have to remember everything. lol.) All in all it just manages to be obnoxious and at the end you're happy because you finished da big Booke not because you just read something great, unless you happened to decipher the book's code like a complete autist.
The book is impressive from a "look how complicated I can make it" stand point and I'm sure you can write hundreds of essays about it but even though it has a "plot" and a "structure" and this and that I still feel like it's missing a soul. One of the critiques of DFW's earlier works, Broom of the System, was that it felt like it was written by a "very intelligent 15 year old". I still think it's the case
I'm from Illinois and honestly I think the man was just bored.
>>8137949
Why are you so upset?
>>8137949
>I'm from Illinois and honestly I think the man was just bored.
Did you mention being from Illinois to indicate that you've had a lot of experience dealing with boredom?
>>8137949
But it's not like that at all.
The plot is not meant to be untangled, it is as it is, to an effect. In many cases, there are just gaping holes.
It IS about capturing a cultural landscape and exploring characters and their relationships with media, substance abuse, and interpersonal relationships. DFW sees the world as becoming ever alienating, and people turning more and more towards the easy pleasures of entertainment media and drugs and away from healthy loving relationships and connected communities and 'good old work ethic'. It's almost the message of a very soft edged /pol/.
How is that pretentious? If anything I'd think one would scoff at its moral naivete and conservatism.
>>8137963
because I spent a lot of time reading this book and got nothing in return
>>8137978
Yes, the area where Wallace lived is very boring. literally suburbia
>>8137996
Did he need 1000 pages and 300 footnotes though to talk about those things? Also, the issues that he talks about are so unimportant and frankly "rich people problems" like an addiction to endless entertainment/drugs. (an addiction to weed....come on)
Also, in my experience the book does need to be untangled. (see earlier chart). Even if the chart is incorrect, it is obvious that the "gaping holes" are meant to be filled in by an almost computer-like reader, as details mentioned hundreds of pages earlier in the book start to return out of nowhere at the end.
You may say that I just need to pay more attention and you may be right, but in my experience I enjoy books that have good style, not ones that require precise recollection of earlier passages.
>>8138138
>Did he need 1000 pages and 300 footnotes though to talk about those things?
No, but he's creating a work of art, not an essay of social criticism. These things are discussed through presumably sympathetic characters and entertaining scenarios. That's what we call 'fiction'.
>Also, the issues that he talks about are so unimportant and frankly "rich people problems" like an addiction to endless entertainment/drugs. (an addiction to weed....come on)
Then don't read it if you think these problems don't matter, or don't have any interest in them. DFW wrote what he saw and knew. 1) It would be silly for him to write something else because it seemed "more important" and 2) it is also silly to dismiss problems just because there are bigger things to talk about. "Rich people problems" I think is a poor label, as alcoholism and drug addiction affect all levels of society - but even so, why should we NOT explore "rich people problems"? Our environment is shit, the economy is shit, children are starving in Africa!!! - So ... what? I shouldn't take out the garbage or try to find where the raccoons are nesting in my garage? If everyday problems matter to people, why can't they be explored through literature too?
>Also, in my experience the book does need to be untangled. (see earlier chart). Even if the chart is incorrect, it is obvious that the "gaping holes" are meant to be filled in by an almost computer-like reader, as details mentioned hundreds of pages earlier in the book start to return out of nowhere at the end.
" no "
>You may say that I just need to pay more attention and you may be right, but in my experience I enjoy books that have good style, not ones that require precise recollection of earlier passages.
Way to go on missing the point. The overwhelming and fractured narrative IS the style. DFW himself says the novel should project a kind of ending, converge on one, but that doesn't mean there is any specific ending or any need to come up with one.
>Why are you so upset?
>because I spent a lot of time reading this book and got nothing in return
This is not the book's fault.
>>8135461
I think it took me around 6 months to finish the stand by king, it's just that I read good part of a book and stop reading for weeks, than another part and so on, stretching it for months
>>8138223
>>8138221
oh don't bring that shit into this
SJW/PC has just become the new label to dismiss someone's argument without engaging in it. It's like the actual SJW/PC folks' use of 'racist'.
Don't be a fag and at least engage him. PS: DFW was a total PC proto-SJW
>>8138234
fair point tbqh, though I can't really be bothered to think up anything better, so I guess have at it guys
>>8138234
No, he makes fun of feminism at one point and the most heroic character in the story is a blatant racist.
>>8138251
I guess you haven't heard him speaking on how this generation's heroes will be the ones who can realize and talk about the way we live and societie's inequalities and yaddyadyada
forget the source but it sounded to me like a manifesto for tumblr activism. Also
>the most heroic character in the story is a blatant racist.
do you really honestly think this is an -endorsement- of racism? Could it not be, instead, a kind of forgiving humanism that says rather that there is good in everyone - eeeeven the racist boogyman? I also have no clue who you mean. If you mean Don Gately then you have a funny idea of the term 'racism' or else you're twisting the characters to fit your own little gestapo ideals.
>>8138268
>Later blacklisted off both the Virginia Slims and Family Circle professional distaff circuits after trying to organize the circuits' more politically rabid and unwrapped players into a sort of radical post-feminist grange that would compete only in pro tournaments organized, subsidized, refereed, overseen, and even attended and cartridge-distributed exclusively to not only women or homosexual women, but only by, for, and to registered members of the infamously unpopular early-interdependence-era Female Objectification Prevention and Protest Phalanx,105105 given the shoe, she'd come, practically with a bandanna-tied stick over her shoulder, back to Coach Schtitt, who for historico-national reasons has always had a soft place inside for anyone who seems even marginally politically repressed. Last spring's airless and B-redolent section of Thode's psycho-political offering, 'The Toothless Predator: Breast-Feeding as Sexual Assault,' had been one of the most disorientingly fascinating experiences of Ted Schacht's intellectual life so far, outside the dentist's chair,
>Last spring's airless and B-redolent section of Thode's psycho-political offering, 'The Toothless Predator: Breast-Feeding as Sexual Assault,
You get it`? This seems like a joke you could hear right on here today 20 years later.
>>8138268
He's confused because the characters aren't split into "good" and "bad"
Maybe he should watch Star Wars, where the bad guys have red weapons and the good guys blue. That sounds more his speed.
>>8135138
I'm taking notes on the go though in this particular page i had the urge to block out the (he'd) parts because they are purposely repeated by DFW. I guess he must of done this to convey a sense of semi dread/ paronoia around the Modus Operandi of Steve Erdedy when smoking dope. He's going trough all the thing's (he'd) do to create a complete aversion against his addiction. I did it because when going back I can immediately identify not only what the text it's about but also the general feel of the scene.
>>8138278
I'm not contesting this. What man in the 1990's isn't going to laugh at radical feminism. He's still a PC liberal, it's just that today's madhouse landscape makes him look reactionary by contrast.
>>8138291
From what I could get from that address was that he wanted more understanding for one another in society, I wouldn't say that's consistent with SJW and Tumblr activism at all which tries to paint everyone white as unentitled to speak about hardship.
>>8138289
>must of
Opinion discarded.
>>8137366
No it doesnt. It just says pre-subsidized time, that said YDAU is either 2008 or 2009, there are contradicting facts supporting each (I believe this was probably intentional)
>>8137996
>>8138138
The book is pretentious but thats kinda why it succeeds.
Also David was actually kind of a sexist, this is clearly a boy's book. The only female protagonist is hidden. The treatment of Hugh Steeply would never make it in today's culture.
That said for the most part he's trying to be honest about men's relationship to women and in the process, by telling the truth, he hurt some feelings.
Truth be told: Men are pigs. PC culture wants you to hide this fact, get defensive about it, but in my opinion, the truth is really about finding a way of mediating this truth rather than getting extreme and reactionary about it (which kinda ties into why he would make fun of radical Feminist groups)
>>8138768
okay, but in the very least, it reveals that this is part of the order: Whopper -> Tucks -> Dove Bar
I wish I would've seen this thread earlier. I have 2 fking copies of IJ (don't know how that happened) that I got years ago and keep putting it off. I'm reading Dostoyevsky, The House of The Dead...and it's really good so far.
So do I stop reading a book I'm enjoying so far and pick up IJ and finally tackle it? I'm torn. I keep putting it off because its kind of intimidating (people can make fun of me, whatever) and I read every word in my head which slows me down. Been trying to work on that for a while. I wanted to read some Henry Miller I picked up after House of the Dead. Difficult decisions....
>>8139230
Keep on with what you're reading. Dostoyevsky and Miller are far better than DFW and this reading group will probably fall apart within a month's time.
IJ is a good book though, and easier than its reputation suggests. Get to it eventually!
>>8137996
>/pol/
stopped reading right there
neck yourself faggot
