best books for starting theology and moving up afterwards? like from beginner to expert
C. S. Lewis' Mere Christianity.
>>8096114
the Bible permeates all levels of Abrahamic religious study, so don't be intimidated by it thinking you need to read something else first
>>8096124
like after the bible
If you're new to theology, consider Way of the Pilgrim. It's a short novel that was found in a monastery in the 19th Century, it's easy to read, and it is extremely theological.
Then read the Philokalia.
Then Ascetic Homilies of Saint Isaac the Syrian.
Then the sayings of the Desert Fathers
The Ladder of Divine Ascent if you've read all those, it's as advanced as you can get and you will probably struggle with it if you don't have a spiritual guide.
Also, this goes without saying: read the Gospels.
I'm Catholic does that change anything?
>>8096129
>Philokalia before Desert Fathers
>putting it as the SECOND read
Full retard, it is only second to The Ladder in difficulty. He should read some sayings of Seraphim of Sarov, Herman or Alaska or similar before embarking on anything of that difficulty, it's like telling someone to read Origen before they've even read Genesis.
It's also not really theology when it is concerned with practice.
>>8096127
Jewish texts such as Kabbalah or the Talmud
Abrahamic holy books that didn't make the Biblical Canon such as the book of Eve, the book of Enoch, the Gospel of Thomas, etc. there's quite a few that didn't make the Bible in its canonized form we have today.
Dead Sea Scrolls
>>8096138
Is Origen worth reading having the Pentateuch, Isaiah, and NT?
>>8096114
First read the New Testament. You absolutely do not have to read the entire Bible, anyone who tells you that is ignorant or malicious. But you should at least read the Gospels, the letters of Paul, and Revelation. Ideally read all the New Testament though, it's short. Make sure you read it with a good commentary. The best one available right now is the Didache Bible from Ignatius Press (everything I tell you is going to be from a Catholic perspective btw, but all other theology is limp garbage anyways --except Orthodoxy maybe -- so we're good).
Absolutely start with Mere Christianity. Then read Everlasting Man. Then read Sheed's Theology for beginners. From there maybe Ratzinger's Introduction to Christianity, Feser's Aquinas, Sheed's Theology and Sanity and A Map of Life, and Sheen's Life of Christ.
For a classic description of religion in general, read The Sacred and the Profane.
For some older texts, read Story of a Soul, the Way of Perfection, and especially especially read Imitation of Christ (one of the finest spiritual classics of all time).
Here's a list of a few more good books to read to fill out your understanding.
Myth and Meaning (Levi-Strauss)
Jesus of Nazareth (Ratzinger)
Reality: A Synthesis of Thomistic Thought
The Mother of the Savior
The Three Ages of the Interior Life
Introducing Moral Theology
The Belief of Catholics
To Know Christ Jesus
The Spiritual Combat
God or Nothing
Values in a Time of Upheaval
The Idea of the Holy
The Beauty of the Infinite
Transformation in Christ
>>8096451
what does one read after all that?
>>8097904
genre fiction
>>8097974
nice meme kid where'd you get it?
>>8096114
The everlasting man by gk chesterton is pretty good for fleshing out why the existence of god being a logical conclusion and then explains why the catholic church / chrisitian religion is not just a knockoff of pagan stories and how you cant really equate it with other abrahamic religions or easterns religions as well
>>8097904
If you actually read all that you won't need to ask this question, least of all on a 4chan thread.
>>8098010
will it BTFO protestants and atheist
>>8096129
Hi Constantine
>>8098557
He didnt didnt really argue against any other Christian sects so much as he talked the catholic church up. He takes a historical approach and basically says that Jesus is the only logical answer but how did we arrive there and explains why the church is unlike anything else. The first couple chapters absolutely trash all over atheists and progressive type people. I felt that the latter part of the book was slower but that was because he was asserting the uniqueness of the church compared to other religions / eastern philosophies. I didn't really think this point was important at first, but he eventually hammers it in. Overall if you have any doubts regarding Christianity this book should remove them all.
>>8096392
The teaching company has a great course on church fathers with a great reading list, taught by bart ehrman, its pretty based as a guide.
>>8099254
zizek reps chesterton hard and is full athiest
what does this mean?
Theology for Beginners
>>8099254
It's a polemical piece. You can find a polemical piece that will 'BTFO' any and all religions outside of the one you want to believe in and are currently having doubts about, no matter which one goes where. It's an eternal market--confirm people's pre-existing belief system and build a narrative that makes it seem eternal, unique, and absolutely historically necessary.
The only problem is that your arguments look like dogshit a few centuries later, once the hot topics of theological discussion have shifted.
Thank Ganesh that Chesterton was classy enough to not piss his whole corpus away on sucking up to the priests that forced him to suck down on their balls as a child.
>>8096451
Is the Eliade general/comparative type stuff worth getting into?
>>8096138
I have difficulty believing you've read all these and are still calling people retards,
The Philokalia is difficult, but it's definitely beneficial to anyone who has a basic grasp of Orthodox theology. There will never be a point that you will fully "get it" in the sense of gaining all you can from it, it is limitless. You can read one page and thing about it all day and all night for year, and then read it again and find all sorts of things you didn't see before.
As to your second point, there is speculative theology, and practical theology, just like there is speculative philosophy, and practical philosophy. Orthodox theology is mostly intended to have application in how you live your life
>>8098579
Hello
>>8100342
>I have difficulty believing you've read all these and are still calling people retards,
It is VERY easy to imagine anyone calling you a retard after reading any number of books on anything.
>>8100343
Nah, not if they've read and taken to heart works like the Ladder of Divine Ascent.
>>8100412
I don't think you've taken anything to heart then
>>8100412
whats that all about?
>>8100197
reps?
I have a question:
What are some good verses about friendship, brotherly love, healing relationships, etc?
the holy bible
>>8100297
The only thing I said it really btfo's is atheists which is not very hard considering that it's really just too simple an answer.
>The only problem is that your arguments look like dogshit a few centuries later, once the hot topics of theological discussion have shifted.
The looking like dogshit a while down the road is a problem for most theologies. The Greek, Roman, Nordic, Druid Gods etc all ended up dying out. They were wet cardboard ideologies and couldn't hold any weight.
The thing with Christianity is that it has died several times but managed to rise out of the grave, that's where Chesterton got the title for the book. The Diocletian persecution, Reformation, French Revolution etc etc all should have extinguished the church but they did not. Christianity has remained on top since the Edict of Milan. It is precisely the fact that Christianity does not look like dog shit a few centuries later that it has any credibility. The Church might grow full of hacks and many members might not truly believe but new blood always comes in and returns to the roots.
>It's an eternal market--confirm people's pre-existing belief system and build a narrative that makes it seem eternal, unique, and absolutely historically necessary
It is an eternal market because it answers an eternal question. I'm not going to type out why Christianity is right and the others are wrong as that is the whole topic of this thread. If you think that every religion is just as right as another, which is to say that they are all wrong god ahead and read everything in >>8096451 and then the City of God and Summa Theologica
Do you consider the NT the word of God and not the apocrypha/gnostic texts? If so, why?
>>8096114
>starting theology and moving up
>mfw
>>8096125
>Divine Comedy
>Fiction
>>8101542
what is it then?
>>8101432
what did he mean by this?
>>8101251
>Christianity is right
You're not serious, right? It's 2016.
>>8102671
next year it will be 2017, what's your point?
>>8102671
As a refutation you could start by reading Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis who was once an atheist and then the Everlasting Man. The point of this thread is for understanding theology so if you doubt the validity of Christianity perhaps you should start reading the books suggested.
>>8102708
Modern advances in science are not compatible with Christianity.
>>8102717
Why is that?
>>8102717
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science
The church has been behind several scientific advances. Perhaps if you went to a jesuit school you would not be as dense. And as good as science is there are three riddles it cannot solve.
Either there was nothing and then everything was created or there has always been a universe.
At some point life was created.
You might debate this last one however it is irrelevant as science can provide no meanignful answer to the other two.
At some point man became completely unlike all other animals.
For those of us who want to know why these things happened, God is the eventual answer.
>>8102746
It's a shame most modern heresies originate from Jesuits and the order is really far from orthodoxy in many places. Also, it is extremely fucking ironic that the order founded to persecute protestants is now the most protestant.
>>8096129
>Way of the Pilgrim
>The Way of a Pilgrim, or The Pilgrim's Tale (Russian: «Oткpoвeнныe paccкaзы cтpaнникa дyхoвнoмy cвoeмy oтцy»), is the English title of a 19th-century Russian work, recounting the narrator's journey as a mendicant pilgrim across Russia while practicing the Jesus Prayer.
>the Jesus Prayer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm#Hesychast_controversy
>>8102746
>At some point man became completely unlike all other animals
man isn't 'completely unlike all other animals'
apes can be trained to the level of ~ 2-3 y.o. child so they can speak etc
>>8102746
>>8102793
It'll be news when an ape discovers calculus or paints the Sistine Chapel. I knew there would be some contension witht this point so I ask if you can contest the others.
>muh big bang
Ok, then why did it happen? I love finding infinitesimal points in nature that spontaneously explode into the universe. Happens all the time where I'm from. 100% natty.
>>8102746
>God is the eventual answer
no, it's not
the fact that you even formulate this as the answer is either god or something else, a false dichotomy, already shows why you're even thinking about these things in the first place
let alone what you even define as god in the first place, and how this definition can coexist with the sciences
>>8102815
don't be facetious
of course no one knows "why" the big bang. the point of it is that observation in conjunction with mathematical models gives us a universe that expanded from a point of origin. it fits, and it has practical utility in understanding the universe
besides, questions of sciences are about what and how, not why
>>8096134
no if you're catholic then you're already in the right faith. you don't even need it. just tell people you are a catholic and god will hear and tell paul and he'll let you in ...
HELL LETUIN
Emmanuel Levinas.
>>8102860
Yes, science does not concern itself with the "why" but the question still exists and most people want an answer. Why did something occur out of nothing. One of the most interesting events in all of history and you don't want to know why?
>>8102847
Clearly these events are common place and science can explain to us why they have occurred. False dichotomoy? Either these events occurred naturally or they are supernatural. Thats it. No false choice there. Science cannot explain adequately how nothing turns into something and how life occurs from a primordial cesspool.
>>8102910
the problem here is that you are already clearly confident in that we already have an easily digestible answer that is completely comprehensible to us
yes it's well and fine to want answers but the way we formulate questions and think of answers is important
natural/supernatural are not distinct. if you believe in god there is absolutely no distinction
if science can't explain it all, now or never, so what? we're not entitled to answers. maybe there are things so foreign they are impossible for us to know
>>8102786
why are you on this website, this board with a trip?
>>8102943
>natural/supernatural are not distinct. if you believe in god there is absolutely no distinction
You seem to be equating pantheism with God https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism. There is a distinction between the natural world and acts of God according to the Catholic Church. Man has free will and God does not dictate our every action.
>yes it's well and fine to want answers but the way we formulate questions and think of answers is important
The way we think of answers to the questions I have proposed is known as theology. The books recommended in this thread are the result of years of careful thinking by great men. Surely you would agree that Thomas Aquinas was no buffoon. These questions and their answers may be terrifying to you, but that is the nature of the subject
>if science can't explain it all, now or never, so what? we're not entitled to answers. maybe there are things so foreign they are impossible for us to know
Have you tried reading Job?
Who hath enjoined him his way? or who can say, Thou hast wrought iniquity? Remember that thou magnify his work, which men behold. Every man may see it; man may behold it afar off.
>Behold, God is great, and we know him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.
For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof: Which the clouds do drop and distil upon man abundantly. Also can any understand the spreadings of the clouds, or the noise of his tabernacle?
>>8102900
who?
>>8102793
please read even one of the books in this thread, then drop trip and never come back here
thanks
>>8100309
I think it is. Remember that Christian theology (and indeed most theology) is not just unattached intellectualizing. It is grounded in rituals, traditions, history, and symbols. I say this as a devout Catholic, it by No means demeans theology to understand its religious and ritualistic other side. That said, it's skippable if you really are just interested in pure philosophy of God. That is to say, theology and not religion generally.
>>8100955
John 15:13
>>8096114
The Day That God Farted And It Smelled So Bad That Every One Stopped Believing in Him
>>8105169
you have to 18 years or older to post on this website
Start with Kitab ul Tawhid with explanation by Saleh al Fawzan then move on to Usul al Tafsir and Usul al Fiqh. Get involved with students of knowledge and don't forget to begin memorizing the Qur'an and at least the 40 hadiths of Nawawi. Tafsir ibn Kathir is the best starter to begin the Qur'an with. Fulfilling the obligatory prayers is also a must and Ramadan is coming up which is always the best month to study so don't waste time.
After learning Fusha and memorizing most if not all of the Qur'an move to the Arab world and find a well respected scholar to learn under. If you can't applying to al Medinah University is a good start. Do that for a couple decades.
Once you get tazkiyah you basically win the game. Then start writing your own works and get even more tazkiyahs. Next go down as one of the greatest scholars of Islam and people will look to you for knowledge for generations.
Barakallah fik.
