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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
Vol. 1 - The Three Theban Plays by Sophocles
>Previous Thread
>>8068530
>Upcoming dates
23/05/16 - "Three Theban Plays" by Sophocles
01/06/16 - Voting day
02/06/16 - Results and rollover period
06/06/16 - "Three Theban Plays" finished
>How do I bookclub?
Find the book at the top of this post, read it, and discuss. Bookclubs are a place for expanding and sharing your knowledge. Use this opportunity to ask questions, and discuss the things you liked and did not like about the story.
>Archives
http://pastebin.com/HTu8Nf5d
I also found this for those looking for a text
https://archive.org/details/playsofsophocles00sophiala
The Three Theban Plays in this collection are:
Antigone
Oedipus Tyrannus
Oedipus Coloneus
>results and rollover period
Why? Just let the voting last until we finish the current book, giving everyone time enough to vote, and then we'll just continue with the book that's been selected. I agree on the rest thou
I give it 24 hours before this whimsical idea dies a cursed death.
>>8074709
It's so that people have time to find the book and start reading ahead before discussion of the previous book is finished.
The dates are also clearly stated so there's no excuse for not popping by on the 1st for 10 seconds and voting.
>>8074733
Alright, but I still think we should give it more than one day of voting period. How about 3 days for voting and then 3 days rollover period? That's enough to find the book and start reading.
>>8074709
sauce?
gimme those dolls
I have two versions of the thebian plays. The Fagels translation, which I find a lot easier to read and understand. And another that was edited by David Greene and Richard Lattimore and features translations by Elizabeth Wyckoff, David Greene, and Robert Fitzgerald.
Is there a particular edition we'll be reading?
>>8074809
No there's no particular version. All the plays should have the same line numbering so if you need to reference something, reference by the line number.
Oedipus at Colonus > Antigone > Oedipus Rex
>"Greece and Poverty", said the historian Herodotus, "have always been bedfellows,"
greeks btfo by ancient greeks.
Is this one fine to read?
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/31
>>8075140
You are probably going to need a dictionary for some of the words being used there.
Line 3 of Antigone from that version
>The weird of Oedipus
I had to search the meaning of "weird" in that context as a noun; it means "destiny".
There's also the matter of the way the texts are arranged. Chronologically, Oedipus Rex follows, Colonus, which is followed by Antigone, but in order in which they were written, Antigone was written before Rex, and Colonus. If you don't have a version that provides a preface or footnotes of that sort, it's probably better to read chronologically, because all three plays make references to each other, and reuse characters.
>>8074712
/lit/s a slow board. let's go with 48.
>What? You'd kill your own son's bride?
>Absolutely: there are other fields to plow.
S A V A G E
A
V
A
G
E
>>8074809
just a suggestion, but I've read the plays before and for most of the Greek tragedies you want something with Lattimore's name on it.
Did the Greek chorus stand still while they sang or did they dance and sing?
>>8074665
I'll be reading these, hopefully the idea catch on to something of an a intelligent discussion.
can we not start with the greeks
>>8078643
I wanted Tagore, a Bengali poet and writer.
>>8078643
Pretty sure it was just a coincidence.
>>8074665
who hasn't read this though? not trying to be a hardass just thought bookclub would be focused on lesser known stuff
>>8079695
the majority gets what the majority votes for.
>>8079813
Ah, sorry. Didn't keep up with the last thread. Keep up the good work milord
Did Sophocles purposely end each of his plays with destiny prevailing over free will because he would have been lynched by the audience otherwise?
>>8074665
Just a reminder that I've been keeping track of book recommendations. Future OPs will include this but for the time being, to make a book request for future polls, format your requests like such:
[REC] Book by Author
Anyone who's reading the Penguin edition, finding the preface to the plays more interesting the plays themselves?
Pessimistic about this, but will probably join in when the discussion kicks off.
>>8083833
Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking.
This will last for a generation. Get in now boys.
ONN BOARRRDD
Great book choice! The plays are relatively short and as a pleb, I understood what was happening.
great experience/10
>>8084591
Fair. If we look at the three Theban plays as a trilogy, how do you think it compares that of Aeschylus - Oresteia ?
I believe Sophocles is the better tragedian. Sophocles is groundbreaking in the sense that before him a trilogy consisted of three parts of the same act, with Sophocles, each part of the trilogy is a finished work that can be read and understood by itself with the three parts complementing each other. Sophocles is also much more defining to the shaping of modern literature, the conflicts in the plays of Aeschylus arise when a man has to confront his own fate, therefore, it is in a sense the struggle of man against the inevitable, Sophocles while still keeping fate in the Theban plays shows the man himself and not fate as the main device for moving the plot, with his actions the man affects his fate and while in the end fate still does its own thing the way in which this end is reached is not as straightforward as in the plays of Aeschylus, thus making them much more complex and nuanced. Another thing which Sophocles does better is portraying the destruction of man as a result of his own sins rather than being caused by the sins of a predecessor carried by his entire future family.
>>8087017
I don't think Sophocles saw his plays as a trilogy. If they are, that's not really his idea because he took well told stories and legends and put them in the theatre. Oedipus Rex existed as a story before Sophocles turned it into a production. The other thing is that he wrote Antigone before Rex and Colonus. Also Sophocles, wrote hundreds of plays, and not many survived, we can't be certain that this was meant to be a trilogy, there could have been other plays related to Thebes, and Creon etc.
I do agree Sophocles wrote with more sophistication and innovation than Asychylus. I remember reading it was Thespa who invented the actor, Asychylus who invented dialogue by having two actors on the stage, and then it was Sophocles who put three actors on the stage.
I definitely think the majority of the plays favor the idea of not being able to escape your fate over freewill. Oedipus Rex, Antigone, both of these plays have a prophecy, which despite extraneous effort to try and circumvent said prophecy, they end up fulfilling it regardless. But I think if there is an argument for freewill, it is made with Oedipus, who defiantly takes out his eyes instead of his life. Defys the prophecy, and also pays the price that is due for incest.
As for
All that ain't very bookclub
im in bitches. Also for future reference our universities in australia love helping jews so if you dont wanna buy and have an ereader or dont mind reading of computer/tablet you can acquire this and many other classics in from here.
https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/l/literature/gbww/
your welcome
Why not all of Sophocles' plays?
They're not that long.
>>8087999
Because it's ultimately a discussion club, if you have too many texts set, people will either just not bother, or most will get ignored in favor of discussing just a couple of them anyway. No-one's stopping you reading them though.
>>8087823
>Sophocles who put three actors on the stage.
True. He also shortened the chorus part by a lot, putting the emphasis on the dialogue. He also removes the static actors who are there just to move the play forward, he makes it so the appearance of every character has some significance. Even the chorus develops as a character, you can see that in Antigone, where at first they support Creon without asking a question and later after the meetings with Haemon and Tiresias the chorus becomes much more doubtful in the actions of the ruler. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this development of the chorus is I think the first of its kind in tragedy.
>>8088956
I think it's cool how these guys a few thousand years ago were tinkering and inventing the most basic things about the theatre that we take for granted.
Antigone definitely does a lot of creative things with the chorus. One of which is having the actor and the chorus talk to each other, because I remember in Antigone, Creon chides the chorus at one point.
So here are the book recommendations that we have right now taken from the previous topic. Books can't be recommended two weeks in a row, so all recs from last week need to wait another week before being allowed back into the poll.
Fathers and Sons - Ivan Turgenev
Cyberiad - Stanisaw Lem
Amores - Ovid
I will go ahead and [REC] The Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon
[REC] Fates and Furies by Lauren Groff
Perfect for reading after the Theban Plays.
>>8091842
I think that it's dangerous to link the books we read together like that though honestly, it becomes kind of intimidating for people interested in joining it if there's a backlog to read to be able to discuss the books on the same level as people that have been there from the start.
Plus, keeping it varied allows us to get a better appreciation of literature and different themes, I'd much prefer to read a completely different thing each week than stuff with similarities.
>>8090438
I think Antigone is the most important when it comes to the grander scheme, when we look at how each of these three separate plays affected tragedy as we know it. However, I enjoyed Oedipus Rex the most. When it comes to Oedipus at Colonus, I just don't see the appeal, if someone can shed some light on what they liked about that play I'd appreciate it.
