>Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (—I do not say by what sort of feet—) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin—because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life!… The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust—a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very “senile.”—What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich…. Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won…. The German noble, always the “Swiss guard” of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church—but well paid…. Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious…. Christianity, alcohol—the two great means of corruption.
What did he mean by this?
Nietzsche is triggered as fuck by Jesus and never really got over it.
inb4 he "respected" Jesus. No he didn't.
>>8069053
I like Nietzsches ideas in general but I think he's got shit backwards. Islam is life-denying as fuck, and German pirates looking for gold and Alcohol were pretty damn good at saying yes to life
>>8069053
An SJW that I dated for a month had a banner photo on twitter (if that's what they're called) that was a cartoon of topless white girl standing next to a woman in a hijab. Both of them were smiling because they were women making their own personal decisions about how to express themselves and their bodies.
>>8069053
>What they wanted, of course, was booty
The dank neech
>>8069084
The fact that it's some sort of banner on twitter is cringey as fuck but there's nothing wrong with the idea imo
>>8069053
>lives life on welfare because he's a sick, sniffling crippled faggot
>complains about anything that goes against the natural order
hate this guy so much
>>8069102
W-whatever happened to compassion and sympathy for the suffering? Gosh...
>>8069084
Why do these people pretend that women are always free agents, especially women in Islamic societies? Some women are in sex work not because they want to express their freedom but because they want to feed their kids.
>>8069113
The simple truth is that women are NEVER free agents. Life would be much simpler and happier if we could all come to understand this.
>>8069113
>making a choice to feed your kids
don't see how they aren't free agents
>>8069064
This /thread
Carlyle also had a lot of time for Islam.
As with him, I think it's definitely a case of 'cutting off the nose to spite the face.'
Yes, Christianity when viewed from a detached/aloof vantage point is of course a weak and pathetic religion; almost everything everything that Western Civilization allegedly 'owes' to Christianity was achieved *in spite* of Christianity, not because it.
What made Western Civilization 'great' was Western things; not some Middle-Eastern barbarism.
Pic semi-related.
>>8069537
Christianity itself is total masochism and submission to your enemies, the religion, it boggles my fucking mind that /pol/ has such a hard on for it.
>>8069102
Nietzsche is to you what God is to Nietzsche.
>>8069066
It wasn't always life denying, If you went back a few hundred years the Islamic societies of the time probably had more in common with modern Western societies in certain ways than Christian societies.
>>8069767
In fact if you wanted you could probably push it further and say that the West and the Middle East were almost in completely reversed roles at the height of the Islamic Golden Age, when the Muslims were a comparatively open, free, cultured and prosperous society and the European Christians were religious zealots determined to wage a holy war against this more culturally developed society.
>>8069537
Only had to get 12 replies deep to see an actual answer.
Nietzsche viewed Christianity as a hinderance due to its condemnation of any earthly pleasures and the appeasement of the peasant classes by making them believe that their lives of misery and squalor are somehow 'pious'. Hence, when Christianity crusades against Islam, it is seen by Nietzsche as the uncivilised western barbarians destroying the culture, knowledge and greatness of the middle-east (which was far greater than the west at the time). Of course that was more done by the Mongols than the crusaders but we'll ignore that because he's trying to make a point.
The Middle-East flourished during the 'dark ages' because their religion was not prohibitive and encouraged exploration. Europe did not because it was restrictive, wanted to keep its subjects in a slave mentality and anything scientific was labelled pride - we don't see any advancements in the West until cultural rebellion against Christianity (Renaissance).
He then goes on to criticise the German nobility for their role and readiness to suppress and loot others, stating that it exempts them from being considered a 'higher civilisation'
>>8069715
Hint: they don't. Hence the *kisses foot* meme. It's just chemo for shitposting fedora tippers.
>>8069732
>God is dead
>Nietzsche is dead
Seems about right.
![Crusade intensifies].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cX010M5.jpg "Crusade intensifies].jpg")
>>8069778
Islam isn't *that* different, however; it too glorifies poverty/suffering/etc.
It compensates, however, by glorifying war and conquest; whereas Christianity is undeniably pacifistic. If I recall correctly, the RCC has recently gone as far as to abandon the whole 'Just War' theory that they were defending for decades (and more). Now, more than ever, it is the religion of turning (or is that spreading?) one's cheeks.
Christianity praises weakness, whilst being largely indifferent to strength. Islam, however, praises both.
Nietzsche also vastly overestimates the German contribution to the Crusades/etc, but that's another matter. He was writing in a time when it was highly fashionable to be critical and disparaging of Germany (and/or Prussia). Mere decades before, you had Schopenhauer shitting all over the German language/culture/etc; so it's no wonder that the apple didn't fall far from the tree in that regard.
>>8069849
However it is different in that it encourages academia, science and competition within caliphates. It was also outward looking, unlike Christianity, and not afraid to utilise the scholars of other areas for translation and knowledge.
>Now, more than ever, it is the religion of turning (or is that spreading?) one's cheeks.
I think that there is some truth in that statement, but not for traditional Christian ideological reasons such as turning the other cheek or forgiving those who sin against you. Over the past 150 years, the Church has to evolve to survive - under increasing pressure from a less religious world, it has to water down its beliefs and agree with the common consensus to survive. It has gone from the dictator of Western society to a small fragment at the society's mercy. Now the RCC is under a greater threat than even the one Lutheranism posed to it - the threat of obsoletion.
>Nietzsche also vastly overestimates the German contribution to the Crusades/etc
His history is very weak, and he tends to shape history to fit his belief of the traits of nationalities and what they represent. However, on a broader level he does have interesting things to say about Europe
>>8069781
retard
>>8069767
No it was always life denying. The caliph's raided and destroyed the great libraries of old and then thinking they were hot shit from all of the knowledge they stole continued to invade Europe succeeding in taking Spain. The crusades were the retaliation for this invasion.
They have nothing in common with modern civilisation, which is still a Christian society, you don't get to put on your fedora for ten years and try to rebrand 2,000 of white western culture.
>>8069053
Everything I read from this fag seems terrible and retarded.
Its like "if you're not first you're last" is his whole philosophy.
He must have been full of self loathing considering how sickly and weak he was, dude was a failure according to his own beliefs.
>People still ready memeche
Stop
>>8069053
He's right. Andalusian Muslim society was closer to our society today than its contemporary Spanish Catholic culture was. Emphasis on education, art, science, etc.
Spanish Catholic culture was closer to Saudi Arabia and ISIS's culture today. Religious 'reclamation', destroying civilization and ancient culture for religious reasons, forced conversions, inquisition, etc.
Stop looking at this through the lens of 'Islam vs Christianity' or 'East vs West'. This is a clash of 'civilized vs barbarians'. The Western Europeans were the barbarians of the early middle-ages. Today, they are civilized. Sunni Islam of the early middle-ages was civilized. Today, it is barbaric. This is largely because of Ottoman and Bedouin influence on the religion. Also keep in mind that before the Ottomans, Muslim women were only expected to keep their heads covered, and that Sharia was more lenient in many ways than Western laws were.
>Note: I'm agnostic, but was born Buddhist. I dislike contemporary Sunni Islam almost as much as most posters on /pol/ do. Just wanted to point out that cultures do change over history.
That being said, Nietzsche didn't like any cultural influence that caused society to move away from Classical cultures. If he were alive today, he would probably hate SJWs, evangelicals and Wahhabi Muslims.
>>8071183
Spot on. While Christianity was barbaric, Islam was intellectual and enlightened. Islam practically invented science.
>>8071842
They're still pioneers in the field of explosives.
>"Only in the Roman Empire and in Spain under Arab domination has culture been a potent factor. Under the Arab, the standard attained was wholly admirable; to Spain flocked the greatest scientists, thinkers, astronomers, and mathematicians of the world, and side by side there flourished a spirit of sweet human tolerance and a sense of purist chivalry. Then with the advent of Christianity, came the barbarians. Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers—already you see the world had already fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing Christianity!—then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so."
-Adolf Hitler, 28 August 1942
they're both relics of incipient civilizations and have no place in the modern world
>inb4 le fedora maymays
>>8069064
>>8069515
Nobody needs to respect Jesus, he wasn't the son of god, the fact anybody whos totally beholden to a retarded fairy tale posts on lit is sad. Everyone who cares about humanity is triggered by the crusades and the horseshit that is christianity, you are part of the problem, logic says that it's bad to kill people who are smarter than you, and really bad to do it for a religion, since to people who RESPECT BASIC FUCKING LOGIC,- religion is retarded, god would never want you to do anything but peacefully become as much like him as possible, never would he demand ignorance and murder of your superiors
>>8071877
>dumb yet innocent jokes with a slight racial bent= white supremacist and /pol/
w e w
>>8072852
Peace be with you, Anon.
>>8071842
key word here is "was". the mongols fucked it all up
>>8072852
>>8069251
It's funny because I can't tell if you are a hardcore feminist or a traditional misogynist
It's just lame 19th century orientalism.
>>8069767
>If you went back a few hundred years the Islamic societies of the time probably had more in common with modern Western societies
Sure, if you take the aristocracy. That's my problem with this particular quote because he's comparing the aristocracy of Islam to the bourgeoisie of Christendom. Obviously the Bourgeoisie is going to be banal as fuck.
>>8069462
underrated post
Come on, y'all. Material reality is inherently constricting, and we are constantly compromising with others at best, and often being exploited by them.
>>8069053
He's saying that the church has historically manipulated the German people, for it's own gain?
>>8069053
Nietzsche fell for the Al-Andalus meme, he probably never even met a muslim IRL.
>>8069892
Nietzsche is better at foresight than at hindsight, some of the shit he said about 'the next two centuries' was just mindblowing.
Can't remember which book, but I remember him writing that within 50 years or so there'd be some war that would end up being a war for total control of global trade and that whoever won would have to get the Jews and Russians on their side, and that Germany was doomed to be broken up again if it could not get these nations on its side. I think it was in his younger works. He then went on to say how the entire 20th century would be a massive waste of energy as the west engaged in wars of mass ideology in order to determine which path was right without realizing, until the aftermath, that nobody was right and none of the ideologies actually had anything for us.
>>8069839
kekd
>>8069053
>Mohammedan civilization
No such thing; a contradiction in terms.
thanks guys
>>8072871
So the arabs got a monopoly on getting fucked upp and/or given a bad hand?
Hardly. The current issues of the arab world has far younger reasons.
>>8069778
>because their religion was not prohibitive and encouraged exploration
Is that why they banned any work that the caliphs did not approve of and killed muslims who put a toe out of line?
The greatness of Islamic Empires depends on its rate of conquest.
>>8069778
>this historically illiterate bullshit
The middle-east only did well when it was conquering other nations, and it quickly met an end when it fought with Europe and had to deal with European naval superiority especially in regards to trade.
The "dark ages" were dark for Europe because they had become a fractured mess with no real way of defending themselves from foreign attacks, and had to focus on survival more than anything else.
All Abrahamic religions are shit, especially Islam, and it's amazing to me that white Europeans fell for the Jewish god meme. Christianity is an inherently weak, submissive religion and white Europe should never have taken it up.
>>8075498
>white Europe should never have taken it up.
And be stuck with tribalism?
>>8075572
Was pre-christian Roman civilization tribalism?
Nietzsche was THE armchair historian.
Today, he would be spouting shit on youtube.
Ramadan is a whole month of life/self denying by fasting and absenting from you desires
He was just trying to trigger Christians because they called Islam heresy and disliked it
>>8076614
>he was just pretending to be retarded!!
>>8069767
>a few hundred years
More like a few decades, before the USA had fully inserted its dick.
>>8077202
"the USA is why the Middle East isn't doing well!" is the "Jews are why low-IQ whites aren't doing well!" of the Middle East, except the Middle East also blames the Jews so they're extra retarded
>>8069537
Define "westerm things".
>>8069066
>Islam is life-denying as fuck
Oh is it. It is nowhere as scrotumtightening as Christiandom.
>>8075583
>Rome
>White Europe
Pick one
>>8075498
If Christianity is so weak, how did it conquer the fuck out of your big, strong barbarians?
>>8069778
>Christianity is a foolish religion for glorifying the weak and passive
>However, when Christians crusade against Islam it is barbaric
Is Christianity weak or is it barbaric? Can't win with this guy. Also, Islam flourished by conquering peoples who were accomplishing shit. Egypt, Iran, Sryia etc., had decent civilizations before Islam came along.
>>8075498
>Christianity is an inherently weak, submissive religion.
Just a reminder that this bitch is probably a 5'7 nearsighted manlet.
Post your squats on youtube and/or video footage of you in a street fight, or shut the fuck up about edgelord LIFE FEEDS ON LIFE rhetoric.
>>8077424
>implying Italians aren't white
>>8077425
It didn't, it fell to the barbarians.
>>8077439
keep projecting, Christcuck, and find the time to read between your squats
deus vult
>>8069892
>not afraid to utilise the scholars of other areas for translation and knowledge.
Isn't this because Muslims claim that people before Mohammad were actually also muslims, just in a "beta version", and thus not necessarily total heretics?
>>8077425
Read Things Fall Apart for an answer to this.
>>8069053
Hard to say, except that he had some homogenised ideas on Christianity and Islam.
>>8069084
Literally toothless argument fgt
>>8069775
Yeah a thousand years ago. Who cares fgt fgt fgt
>>8077839
It's full-on historic revisionism. The claim is that God communicated Islam many times before, but humans always changed and corrupted it in the end. It claims that the world used to be islamic, and that therefore conquest and mass conversion is merely a restoration of the original order. None of this is in any way supported by the historic record, perhaps explaining why Islamists are such eager, trigger-happy iconoclasts.
>>8069778
>The Middle-East flourished during the 'dark ages' because their religion was not prohibitive and encouraged exploration. Europe did not because it was restrictive, wanted to keep its subjects in a slave mentality and anything scientific was labelled pride - we don't see any advancements in the West until cultural rebellion against Christianity (Renaissance).
bullshit
>>8078047
>bullshit
Not the guy you were responding too, but i totally agree.
Whatever 'flourishing' that happened in the early centuries of Islamic civilization didn't happen because the Islamic philosophy was one that affirmed life, rather it happened as a response to a very specific political atmosphere at the time. You had this ruthless militaristic invaders made up of mostly bedouins and merchants with no culture to speak of, and they were invading these much more evolved nations with a few thousand of years head start but they just happened to be slightly weak at the time of Islam's rise.
These nations tried to save their cultures from being completely wiped by translating their cultural canon into Arabic and going through semantic loops to try keep them within the moral framework of the Qur'an and Hadith.
Scholars of Islamic history have a specific term for this phenomenon; Shu'ubiyya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shu'ubiyya). You can trace pretty much every accomplishment in arts, philosophy and science in early islamic era to this phenomenon. For example, Sufism, which some liberal thinkers today like to cream their pants over, can be easily traced to Persian Zoroastrianism, Hinduism and Coptic Hermeticism.
>>8069053
I get why Jews created Christianity, but why did they create Islam?
