Marxism
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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
Become enlightened! Read the beautiful words of the incredible writer Oscar Wilde. Slavoj Zizek talks a lot about this essay, and it is indeed fascinating. Thoughts? :
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/wilde-oscar/soul-man/
Bumping, because it's pretty good so far.
>>8042332
Stirner is the pill to end all pills.
Oscar Wilde renounced all his earlier beliefs while in prison and converted to Catholicism on his deathbed.
>>8042400
> In its development it will be assisted by Christianity, if men desire that; but if men do not desire that, it will develop none the less surely. For it will not worry itself about the past, nor care whether things happened or did not happen. Nor will it admit any laws but its own laws; nor any authority but its own authority. Yet it will love those who sought to intensify it, and speak often of them. And of these Christ was one.
>>8042400
Dali did the same. Literally how the world works for most intellectual people. You know Catholics are right somewhere deep inside yet you ignore it/hide it because you want to participate/be seen in the world/get dat puss. So many secret Catholics around it makes me have hope for this world.
>>8042433
BURN THE PAPIST
>>8042332
Everyone should no pill and be Individuals.
>>8042442
Bless you, may you know Christ, the saviour of your souls through his body on this earth.
>>8042332
this is pretty good desu
>>8042450
This is literally the blue pill you moron.
>>8042459
Any pill that "contains" anything is blue. The individual is realized by internals, not externals.
>>8042332
I want a third pill
>>8042332
Something about his philosophy bothers me. Its so good and almost perfect but its lacking something.
>>8042474
Good, you finally get it.
I've currently started to read the essay out loud, anyone got the Stirner bird template?
>>8042487
What do you mean? Explain further.
Reading through this I was reminded of a talk Varoufakis gave where he made similar points to Wilde.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1eOVU61mZE
>>8042417
You miss the point. He didn't just become a Christian, he became a CATHOLIC. And the Catholic Church explicitly opposed Marxism. The Church is the true antithesis of Marxism, as it sets itself up as the complete truth, inexorably linked to the past and unchangeable by the future, as opposed to Marxism's idea of an ever changing and developing truth, forever in revolt with the past. THAT'S what Oscar Wilde converted to.
>>8042546
>The Church is the true antithesis of Marxism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
>>8042567
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11DIVIN.HTM
http://www.franciscan-archive.org/bullarium/qinn-e.html
>>8042631
>1937
>1323
>>8042674
Typical Marxist, thinking that only what you say NOW matters. "We've always been at war with Eastasia"
Considering I'm arguing that the Church represents unchanging truth, showing consistency in her positions throughout the centuries should be pretty important.
>>8042723
>Typical Marxist
A wrong assumption.
>I'm arguing that the Church represents unchanging truth
And the fact is that it isn't unchanging.
And to begin with what the Church says (partly by the same Orwellian argument) about itself matters little. Nor does it matter that Wilde converted on his dying breath. You have yet to address anything about the essay itself, and therefore are completely off-topic. At least you've been fun.
>>8042747
>And the fact is that it isn't unchanging.
Wait a second, you're telling me that after numerous explicit condemnations of Marxism throughout history there's now a pope who's made vague statements which can be taken as not being incompatible with Marxism if one takes them out of context?! Stop the fucking presses!
>>8042802
So you agree with me. Good.
>When man has realised Individualism, he will also realise sympathy and exercise it freely and spontaneously. Up to the present man has hardly cultivated sympathy at all. He has merely sympathy with pain, and sympathy with pain is not the highest form of sympathy. All sympathy is fine, but sympathy with suffering is the least fine mode. It is tainted with egotism. It is apt to become morbid. There is in it a certain element of terror for our own safety. We become afraid that we ourselves might be as the leper or as the blind, and that no man would have care of us. It is curiously limiting, too. One should sympathise with the entirety of life, not with life’s sores and maladies merely, but with life’s joy and beauty and energy and health and freedom. The wider sympathy is, of course, the more difficult. It requires more unselfishness. Anybody can sympathise with the sufferings of a friend, but it requires a very fine nature – it requires, in fact, the nature of a true Individualist – to sympathise with a friend’s success.
>>8043088
Dayum, that's good.
>>8043088
This should be required reading for college freshman.
>>8041058
>2 paragraphs in
Fuck this is some good shit. Thanks OP.
>>8043088
>nu-males thinking this hippy shit is worth any form of thought
>>8044896
right, i'd better stick to jealousy and envy
>>8044902
you better, if you don't want to become a literal walking vagina that cares about other people's feelings all day and sucks everybody's dick without achieving anything of worth by his own.
>>8044912
kys
>>8044912
You're a sad strange little man and you have my pity
>>8042400
Deathbed conversion stories are both incredibly unreliable and incredibly irrelevant.
>>8044912
>vaginas are bad
>sucking dick is a bad
>caring about other people's feelings is a bad thing
>worth
>achievement
you must be living in a haunted house because your mind is teeming with spooks
>>8044922
what's strange is that there are actually faggots like you who pretend to care
about anything other than themselves and you fucking want to make us all gay and vagina-like
>>8044912
wew
>>8044966
sucking dick is bad 2bh
the ultimate sign of subjugation
>>8044971
Farewell
>>8044971
You don't seem to have understood what the quotation was saying at all. And for a guy talking about not caring about what other thinks, you sure seem pretty volatile towards opinions that contradict your own.
>Sometimes the poor are praised for being thrifty. But to recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less. For a town or country labourer to practise thrift would be absolutely immoral. Man should not be ready to show that he can live like a badly-fed animal. He should decline to live like that, and should either steal or go on the rates, which is considered by many to be a form of stealing. As for begging, it is safer to beg than to take, but it is finer to take than to beg. No: a poor man who is ungrateful, unthrifty, discontented, and rebellious, is probably a real personality, and has much in him. He is at any rate a healthy protest. As for the virtuous poor, one can pity them, of course, but one cannot possibly admire them. They have made private terms with the enemy, and sold their birthright for very bad pottage. They must also be extraordinarily stupid. I can quite understand a man accepting laws that protect private property, and admit of its accumulation, as long as he himself is able under those conditions to realise some form of beautiful and intellectual life. But it is almost incredible to me how a man whose life is marred and made hideous by such laws can possibly acquiesce in their continuance.
>>8042474
and so on and so on...
>>8042546
Marxism is just Christianity (particularly Marx's own Lutheranism) through a Hegelian lens
>>8042332
Stirnerfags are maximum idiots. They ignore existentialism because nihilism justifies their immaturity, insecurity, sense of entitlement, obesity, and every single problem incurred by the autism spectrum by ignoring them with "I dont give a fuck ill steal your shit and rape your wife lolololhurrr". They completely ignore the entire point of philosophy. For the stirnerfag, philosophy is something they use and care about to justify their pre-existing, autistic, shitty behavior.
>>8047027
>nihilism justifies their immaturity, insecurity, sense of entitlement, obesity, and every single problem incurred by the autism spectrum by ignoring them with "I dont give a fuck ill steal your shit and rape your wife lolololhurrr".
That's a nice surface reading of Stirner. But don't worry, that indignation is exactly what he wanted you to feel.
>>8047027
>thinking philosophy has a purpose
that's Camus level shit
>>8047789
This level of head up your own ass smugness is the kind you can only get from commie faggots.
Everything is a social construct, we're all the same, see it's written here in all this propaganda written by Jewish supremacists!
>>8047864
>muh commies
>muh jooz
What's spooking you, sonny?
>>8047864
>tfw you realize jews are the superior race
>>8048025
What's not to gloat about? I've been having lots of fun being a Jewish overlord & owning the white race as my slaves.
>>8048004
>Jews a race
someone didn't eat their wheaties
>>8048055
Jews are a race. The Nazis tried to exterminate them because they saw them as a subhuman race. You're ignorance is making you sound antisemitic.
>>8045323
thanks now I know how to act virtously when I'm poor, wait a second.. I'll never be poor because your capital is almost entirely dependent on the social class you were born into.. hmm maybe we should try to fix the fact poor people exists siemonteniously with extremely rich people and solve the actual problem..
>>8042450
Thucydides should be in "human nature" rather than "international politics."
>>8042450
This looks like something a fucking Sargonkiddy would make.
What the fuck is it doing on /lit/?
>>8041058
I just hope nobody bases their political beliefs on this drivel.
>>8048025
"Enemies" would imply me being comparable to anybody else. I'm unique.
>>8049423
Yeah, but so are they.
The Soul of Man Under Socialism is pure utopianism, and any attempt to take it seriously is destined to fail. It's a pleasant fantastical vision, but nothing more. Crime will magically disappear with socialism! Nobody will be selfish. Human nature will change completely. Etc. But of course only the parts of human nature Wilde doesn't like will change! All the other ones will be amplified, everyone will be a great artist! Come on.
>>8049648
Arguing against charity was a good one, though.
Crime would obviously disappear under socialism, because laws would, and you can't break something that doesn't exist. But more than that; robbery, harm, *would* largely disappear under socialism, because it would be easier to make your life better by working than by stealing.
Not to say that everything isn't your property to begin with :^)
>>8045081
AAAAAAAARGHHHH YOU FUCKING KIKE NIGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEER
>>8043088
What did he mean by "Individualism"? How individualism and symphaty can coexist because for me it's 2 opossite things
>>8045323
>As for begging, it is safer to beg than to take, but it is finer to take than to beg
Exquisite.
>>8049706
Does he explain why it's finer to take?
>>8049672
If that were true, parasitism would not exist in the biology
>>8049719
Begging is accepting your condition. Taking is defying it.
At least that's the way I understand it, related to:
>No: a poor man who is ungrateful, unthrifty, discontented, and rebellious, is probably a real personality, and has much in him.
>As for the virtuous poor, one can pity them, of course, but one cannot possibly admire them. They have made private terms with the enemy, and sold their birthright for very bad pottage.
>>8049722
>If that were true, parasitism would not exist in the biology
Anon, do you think we are biologically coded to sit on a nice toilet and wipe our arseholes with paper, rather than to squat over a hole and use leaves or our own bare hands?
>>8049728
>actually addressing someone as "anon"
Nice meme kid, been here long?
We are biologically coded to follow the path of least resistence, structural disadvantages will exist in even the most egalitarian societies humanly possible,even disregarding the complexity of human social behaviour there will always be a segment of society that will benefit more from a non-mutual symbiotic relationship with others
>>8049754
>Nice meme kid, been here long?
You have problems.
>>8049756
You are 12
>>8049760
>he thinks twelve year olds post on /lit/
>>8049764
And yet here you are
>>8049768
And yet I am not the one talking about memes.
>>8049769
You are a living meme who can only spout memes such as utopianism. Come back to earth
>>8049776
>meme meme meme
Meme on, kid.
>>8049785
>*really*
kys tourist reddifaggot
>>8049790
>reddit hating
Only memers from /r/4chan have false Reddit paranoia. I'd tell you to lurk more, but I'd actually just rather you went back home.
>>8042631
The Church is distributist, a form of corporatism. It's hardly the antithesis of Marxist socialism. They are both statist and collectivist, only with one paternalistic and one egalitarian. Many of the same papal encyclicals condemning socialism in the 19th century also espoused this very non-capitalist ideology.
I'm not saying the Church is anti-capitalist, but it is certainly non-capitalist, which prevents it from being the antithesis of Marxism.
>>8049682
He's talking about post-materialism individualism, i.e. all of mankind's needs are realised through socialism, so there's no place for envy (outside of the ego-based one, for which he also presents agruments against); it's pretty utopic, but that's kind of the point.
It's the difference between being self-centered and selfish. Mind you that he's not absolutely against things like charity so long as they allow the individual to realise themself (like with Jesus).
(You coulda read the essay, y'know.)
>>8042517
>Was the Greek minister of finance
>>8041058
I came from a socialist Vietnamese and communist Czechoslovakia background. I'd shoot my family and myself in the head before anyone can finish saying Marxism, much less convert me.
>>8041058
>left wing thread
>"fascinating senpai, keep going, I truly appeciate the works of our fellow comrades, fight the neoliberals and smash capitalism!"
>right wing thread
>OMG KEEP POLITICS OUT OF LIT
>BAC 2 POL!! >:(
Holy fuck, die, all of you.
>>8051629
>I came from a socialist Vietnamese and communist Czechoslovakia background.
i didn't know czech slavs mate with animals
>>8051642
I think the difference is that OP provided a text for us to discuss, so this thread is perfectly legitimate.
>>8042450
No pill is Stirner, dumb ass
