>Fantasy
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/3v2oXAY.jpg/
General: http://i.imgur.com/igBYngL.jpg/
Flowchart: http://i.imgur.com/uykqKJn.jpg/
>Sci-Fi
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/A96mTQX.jpg/
General: http://i.imgur.com/r55ODlL.jpg/ / http://i.imgur.com/gNTrDmc.jpg/
I hope my new op didn't get posted, shitty mobile internet, so not sure
Three of Sixteen ruled but now the Broken One reigns.
>>8040814
>no game company will hire me to write MMO lore
>I'll just fill a tepid book series with all my classes and skill trees
What are you reading, faggots? I'm reading Libriomancer.
Let's get some discussion going.
What is your
>favorite sci-fi technology (inertial suppression, solar flamethrower, etc.)
and what is your
>favorite sci-fi concept (exploring an alien structure, violation of mathematics being the end-all of technological prowess, etc.)
question mark
>>8040817
>one handful of series that does it to this extent
>raising a fuss in every single thread
wololo
>>8040828
My favorite SF concept is the death feedback in Shinsekai Yori, I think. Cool stuff
Generally I prefer magical science fiction (science fantasy?) to techno SF.
>>8040827
Vacuum Diagrams.
>>8040832
I actually do too. I love it when it's included subtly at times but futurism is appealing stuff.
>>8040827
Shadow of the Torturer
I need an epic fantasy recommendation that's good from the beginning, with interesting characters, so that I can keep myself entertained while I'm stuck sitting around for several hours at a time the next few days.
>>8040857
Way of Kings
>>8040811
Ah so it did get posted, but everyone moved here.
>>8040876
What are you talking about?
>>8040857
I didn't think Gardens of the Moon was that bad. It's kinda hard to follow because Erikson doesn't explain anything. You just need to slowly absorb facts about the world until you have a good base of suppositions to work from. I'm only on book three, so I can't say much to it as a whole.
>>8040861
WoK is boring though because Shallan chapters are shit and while Dalinar chapters were fine, they were more than out-shined by Kaladin chapters.
>>8040895
The way I see it, in WoK it's Kaladin > Dalinar > Shallan
in WoR it's Dalinar > Shallan = Kaladin.
>>8040915
In WoR it's still Kaladin > Dalinar > Shallan but a lot of Dalinar chapters rise past their normal mediocrity and a lot of Kaladin chapters are smacked with the pacing stick, causing them to suffer in quality.
>>8040857
C. J. Cherryh's Fortress series. Heavily focussed on the development of two characters. One an heir to the throne, and the other a summond revenant (naive, guileless, and no memories). The series is finished and ready to go. A personal favorite.
Comparing Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser to Riyria is absolutely fucking stupid. The former is about two adventurers in a strange, dangerous world and the latter is about a grizzled old twenty year-old trying to find the meaning of life. The former is sword and sorcery and the latter is high fantasy.
You might as well compare The Dispossessed with that My Immortal fanfic.
>>8041005
Why would you bring this up again
The only thing we need to know is that Riyria is garbage.
I'm the maker of this chart who's been spamming it in all of the recent threads, and I'd just like to take the time to apologize for it. I realize not that it's terrible, and I fear I may have led a few gullible people into actually reading some of these books. If any of you have, I'm truly sorry. As you may have guessed, I have a neurodevelopmental disorder that had previously prevented me from understanding why everyone consistently called my chart crap, but I've since realized that they were just being honest with me. This isn't to say that urban fantasy can't be good, it can, but obviously I've failed to capture that with this chart. This is one of my rare moments of lucidity, so if by chance you see me shill this chart sometime later on, please do both of us a favor and ignore me.
>>8041025
I honestly can't tell if this is legit or just a really well written troll post. In any case, I enjoyed it, good job.
>>8041005
>My Immortal
I always get triggered and realise that Zelazny wrote This Immortal and not My Immortal
>>8040799
>try writing fantasy constantly
>realize every fantasy work I've tried to write would end up being fucking massive
>get discouraged
>start reading fantasy novels
>realize fantasy novels are mostly garbage
>get encouraged again
>cycle repeats
Help
>>8041318
Don't bother writing. Only bad writers have these excuses.
>>8041318
Try writing something that isn't fantasy
>>8041318
Read good fantasy that isn't massive. Imitate it but with your own ideas thrown in.
>>8041025
Due to nice covers I want you guys to tell me about Sabriel and Black Sun Rising.
Would there be a market for good, new sword & sorcery?
>>8041318
Learn to write creative non-fiction, literary memoirs and personal essays, the do fantasy.
Write fantasy as you would real life. With dungeons and dragons, but also being down to earth and having consistency.
Also you're gonna have to stop whining and buckle the fuck down if you wanna get anything done.
>>8041336
If it's truly good and brings something new to the table, probably. If it's just average, probably not.
>>8041336
Write it and see. It's the only way.
>>8041336
>Would there be a market for good, new
There will almost always be a market for something that's both good and new, so long as books are still being bought. It's the "good" part that's really hard to stick.
Some people should start a website together with several web serials and random short stories being posted on it. Like four or five authors all contributing to an ever-growing body of work, with any serial that gets completed being available as a PWYW ebook or print-on-demand books, and possibly short story collections as well. The site itself could subsist on book sales, donations, and possibly merchandise.
>>8041428
I just want the edited and ebook version of Worm to finally come out. He's been teasing it for like 2 years now
I didn't know Wolfe was still writing so much nowadays. Mostly shorter works though apparently. And they seem to be getting pretty weak reviews. Does he not have the energy to write another "great"?
Anyone read his "The Sorcerer's House"? It sounds pretty cool
>>8041434
I haven't read the serial but I'd consider buying an ebook of it.
For serials I prefer a series of adventures, more like you might see in a pulp magazine, over one long novel.
>>8041449
I think some authors take time between their big works.
>>8041449
He hasn't written a great novel since Wizard Knight. Right now he's just having fun, I don't think he's trying any more.
>>8041449
>letting reviews sway you in any capacity
BLEH! WEH GEH GEH!! SNEH!
>>8041487
Reviews for those books are usually from Wolfe fans.
>>8041496
LEH! SPEH HEH!!
>>8041449
>Anyone read his "The Sorcerer's House"? It sounds pretty cool
It's good, but really feels like it's only half a book and was really meant to have a double.
>Does he not have the energy to write another "great"?
"Home Fires" is very good.
>>8041499
I didn't read it yet, but how good is it in Wolfe hierarchy? When was it written? 2007?
>>8041497
He looks good for his age, but I don't think he feels driven any more. Unless death of Rosemary will somehow make him at his deathbed reveal the greatest melancholy story ever he was hiding all along.
>>8041462
Is there a way for serial fiction to be properly monetized in this day and age? A lot of the stories I write are epic fantasy in the sense that they often follow grand plots, but I usually find myself focusing on little adventures along the way that wouldn't necessarily feel "connected" in the grand scheme of things.
>>8041516
more images like this, please?
Trying to write something that takes place in the faerie world, but I keep second guessing myself and getting snagged. I thought it would make more sense for there to be no humans at all, but then part of gets hung up and thinks that's stupid and just sets off a 'trying to be different for no reason' flag.
>>8041521
Like what, reviews?
>>8041516
>>8041496
>Reviews for those books are usually from Wolfe fans.
Wolfe fans are usually fucking morons. Seriously. (BotNS was fun, but really, it wasn't that great.)
>>8041525
yes, with the positive/negative. are these yours?
>>8041523
Faeries are generally more interesting when there's a human perspective. One of the intrinsic things regarding faeries is their relationship to the mortal world and their generally capricious nature.
>>8041531
Just some guy, who's actually pretty well read
>>8041520
I don't think so. Some alternatives would be to find a way to connect the little stories, or to write your series as a sprawling novel, and write those shorter adventures as short stories. Or make them longer and just put out side-quels to the main series.
>>8041529
New Sun is the most profound sff novels ever written, up there with the most high literary achievements like The Divine Comedy and The Brothers Karamazov.
>>8041525
Need one of these for the Lankhmar books, not made by dated anon.
any books with good mermaid portrayals? please and thank you!
>>8041545
He hasn't read Lankhmar. Have Elric
>>8041520
>Is there a way for serial fiction to be properly monetized in this day and age?
Patreon, I guess.
>I didn't read it yet, but how good is it in Wolfe hierarchy? When was it written? 2007?
There is no hierarchy, you tard.
>>8041552
>music in the audiobook version
Christ
>>8041552
Based on this opinion he'd probably like but not love Lankhmar. Even though he's used D&D as an insult twice and the Lankhmar books basically inspired D&D.
>>8041534
That's what I was thinking, but if I left out humans entirely, then the lesser fae creatures would take their place in the narrative. Especially since so many are humanlike anyway. I'm just thinking that if it takes place entirely in Faerie, then it wouldn't make sense for humans to exist at all.
What I was thinking was making faeries sterile with each other, so they still need to kidnap or enchant a mate or child to have offspring of their own, but being fae, they would obviously get bored or their partner would escape so there would still be changelings and things.
>>8041541
Excellent taste
>>8041552
whats his blog or whatever?
>>8041551
Not this one.
>>8041576
...It doesn't come off generic at all, none of the Tolkien lookalikes did anything he achieved.
His elves and orcs and the dark lord are not generic in the same way greek tragedy is still fresh, even if it's been influential.
>>8041584
well...alright, then. noted. i do like that girl's hair a lot, though.
One of the only 0 rating reviews kek
>>8041581
Not going to post it in public because I don't want him to get memebombed since I kind of like him, but throw a random book name and I'll see if he reviewed it. He reads classics and such as well.
>>8041586
get over yourself. it was great for its time, but not its just a standard good vs evil fantasy with elves and orcs. comparing it to the greek tragedy is frankly retarded. the guy said that it wasnt the fault of the book, but that doesnt make it any less outdated
>>8041597
i wont memebomb him. i just want to browse his posts. would you send it to me over skype or something?
>>8041591
The mermaids are genetically engineered chinese secretly training off the US coast for a colony on Jupiter. I'm dead serious. They are encountered briefly at the end of the book.
>>8041610
That actually sounds way cooler than it probably is in the book.
>>8041597
Don't give in. Don't share it.
>>8041624
kek
>>8041632
Ya got me
>>8041614
I agree. If that was central to the story instead of a bizarre afterthought, it might have been an okay read. Maybe I was just expecting more. I confuse a lot of 'P' authors (Piers Anthony, Frederick Pohl, Poul Anderson, Jerry Pournelle, etc) for some reason.
Grandpa won't like this one
>>8041641
He's good, but I'm massively triggered by the Wolfe review
>>8041651
Why is multiple perspectives a positive? I would call it a stylistic choice with the potential to be good or bad.
>>8041660
He probably just shortened it to "interesting"- or "well done multiple perspectives" since a lot of books with multiple POV tend to have quite a few boring ones that you don't want to read about.
>>8041651
>crisp prose
It's nonexistant prose, devoid of all life
>fine rich setting
Rothfuss did a richer one
>good dark atmosphere
If hundreds of pages weren't spent on a boring brittish wanker who bitches about women, maybe
>good characters
the women he wrote were such trash he need to explicity make every one but the main romantic interest a fucking mindless drone to make her have a sense of personality, which even then was pretty shit. Same goes for the said wanker. Glokta was mediocre, but entertaining and Logan was just there.
>Multiple perspectives
There was at least 1 completely redundant one
>fine story
Yeah, cheap Martin knock off that even does a worse job than the not so good original
The book is just pure garbage
People here should write similar short reviews when they finish a book so we can have some decent discussion and get people to read new books.
>>8041518
Some of his late short stories are powerful once you get them. Sea of Memory from 2013 is actually about living with Alzheimers, but it hides behind a strange SF trope of arriving in a place where all times exist simultaneously. The subtext in his late novels is often profound but the surface reading isn't as fun as New sun/fifth Head/peace.
Is the Farseer Trilogy good?
>>8041753
That's the problem with his newer fiction, he has too little on the surface and too much subtext so the reading experience is just mediocre. I mean better than most sff, but in context of Wolfe you always expect more.
>>8041763
It's decent but the ending is ASS
>>8041763
I have to agree with him here, only read the first book and it's pretty uneventful
Considering all the wolfe shitposting, how many of you guys love his works?
>>8041783
About two or three are really obsessed with him, most others think he's just "good" and not much more.
IMO there is no merit in reading anything of Wolfe besides the Solar Cycle.
>>8040857
Game of Thrones
>>8041800
Listing known wolfags
Connor
Combiner
Pinkyivan
Marc Aramini
bBrown
Who is missing?
>>8041854
Who?
>>8041025
Why are you pretending to be me....
The extent you Dinosaurs would go to, to false flag is crazy
>>8041932
>extent
Writing 50 words in which it's clear he's just insulting you isn't very far
>>8041932
If I like older books AND newer books, am I some kind of dinosaur centaur thing? Like a brontosaurus with a human face or a stegosaurus with a human upper body where its neck should be?
>>8041025
I also redid, and revamped it.
After I finish a few more books I will see if they can be added
>>8041959
Improved version here.
>>8041963
>you again
lel. are you gonna do this every time the list is posted?
I guess that is some dedication.
Are you also the one who wrote the well thought out, and heartfelt troll post?
I'm reading Shadow of the Torturer and liking it, but what do I need to read to get the most out of it? I heard Wolfe's stories deal alot with mythological references, i'm familiar with some Greek, egyptian and mesopotamian stuff. What should I read to get a better handle on what hes saying?
>>8041971
No, just trying to save some newbies from reading the bad books.
>>8041963
>Sanderson is still on there
hahe
>>8041963
Thanks, that's actually a big help. I'm trying to transition from trashy shit to actual books so I can never tell when /sffg/ is just memeing vs. actual recommendations. For some reason, this seems genuine.
>>8040827
This Census-Taker, not sure what to make of it so far. It's much more oblique and "literary" than Mieville's previous stuff, feels almost like Lafferty or a bizarro-universe Wolfe
>>8041963
Also did you just go xing at random? I understand you might not like some of them, but you took out Glen Cook and left First Law?
I hated that book when I read it, it didn't flow well. It's only nine fingers Byaz at the end, and the torturer that carried the book for me alsosad that he got to look after the cuck wife... and can't do anything with her.
You also took out Anubis Gates. That book was wonderful, you got to be some troll, or you never read it(usual thing on lit)
>>8041975
>I'm reading Shadow of the Torturer and liking it
I'm glad you are
>but what do I need to read to get the most out of it?
It's very self explanatory, but the whole New Testament would be very beneficial. Severian parallels Christ and a lot of imagery is pulled from there. It's also not exactly shall we say holy so it has a lot of twisted sacraments.
>I heard Wolfe's stories deal alot with mythological references
It's very popular ones in form of far future twisted versions of them
i>'m familiar with some Greek, egyptian and mesopotamian stuff. What should I read to get a better handle on what hes saying?
Just pay close attention and keep in mind that everything is highly intertwined and the plot reveals itself retroactively.
Ask here if you don't get the particulars.
>>8042005
Alright thanks for the help
>>8041998
It was genuine. As you can see, I left some casual books like Way of Kings on there which I think are good fun even though not being exactly masterpieces.
>>8040479
Is it shit because the lack of magic, or for other reasons? Because I enjoy politics and all my favorite fantasy series had mostly low amounts of magic.
>>8041975
One more thing, keep in mind that the grand scheme and point is that of religious conversion.
Severian is slowly contemplating Logos and the personal implications of it, it deals a lot with God's plan. The plot seems nonsensical and unconnected and needs to be seen as a whole.
>>8042004
I was a bit generous with the crosses since I went through it in a minute or two in paint. I guess Black Company could stay in, though its prose is really atrocious and Malazan as well as Traitor Son Cycle (not on the chart) are better versions of it.
>>8042036
>Severian is slowly contemplating Logos and the personal implications of it, it deals a lot with God's plan
But isn't religion more based on pathos, on faith? Is the reason he's contemplating logos because he means to do away with it?
>>8042049
He's contemplating it because knowledge of God is reached through reason, but trust in God through experience and faith, which is the journey Severian takes.
He is a very bad man, but his heart of stone is thrown away and is given one of flesh, as the Bible says.
>>8042043
I always hear that Black Company gets exponentially better after the first book. How true is that? If the first book didn't sell me, am I wasting my time with the second?
>>8042070
It does get better but if you didn't already like the first I wouldn't bother.
>>8042029
It was my opinion, and my opinion is Biased because I have my likes and dislikes.
Want an unbiased opinion? Read it and find out like I did.
>>8042075
It was right on the border, so I guess I'll give Shadows Linger a shot. There was a lot of stuff I liked and a lot I really didn't. Thanks.
>>8041963
>not liking let the right one in
Are you some kind of fag?
What you have against qt vampires?
>>8041998
>I'm trying to transition from trashy shit to actual books
then wtf are you doing in /sffg/? go read infinite jest or gravity rainbow. fantasy is nothing but shitty books, go read a real book and stop being a fedora
>>8042122
>>8041959
Is Trudi Canavan good?
I saw her recommended here a few years ago, but never read it.
>>8042122
Lols infinite jest and gravitys rainbow are both genre shit. How about ulysses, sound and the fury, tristram shandy, etc?
Infinite jest: near future sf in which corporations subsidize time and metaphor of television becomes insidious death trap of infinite entertainment.
Gravity's rainbow - hard on brings v2 attacks, giant octopi and scatophages contribute to nonsensical musical numbers.
Nothing but trash fantasy but throw in drugs and sex.
>>8042095
Sorry if I gave the impression of taking a piss on your opinion, was just generally interested about the series pros/cons before I start reading it. I just find that some books are better going in if you know what to expect.
For example, I went blind into Wise Man's Fear after seeing it praised literally everywhere, couldn't even make it half way through. My opinion might have been different if I knew beforehand how much of an insufferable marty sue cunt Kvothe is.
>>8042308
>Sorry if I gave the impression of taking a piss on your opinion
Text is a poor medium for expressing emotions, I wasn't angry even if it came off as so. I was just saying I read his blurbs liked what I read and read his books, then regretted it.
The things I was looking for were present in his books, but in drought quantities. That is why I said my opinion is biased and you will have to read to find out.
Name of the Wind is a good book, it's book two that is shit. and Rothfuss takes a shit on his readers with that fairy shit.
He should have had Kvothe trick her into releasing him, instead of the "Virgin sexes a sex goddess so good she never felt anything like that in her eons of existences and lets him so" shitfest he did. The female ninja thinking that babies didn't come from men was okay if he improved it, it would have just showed what a different culture thought, but he fucked that up too.
>>8042373
>text is a poor medium for expressing emotions
>name of the wind is a good book
>literature board
>paradox
>shit taste
>>8041581
https://vnrw.wordpress.com/
Literally typed in:
>"clunky prose describing every redundancy imagine-able"
>tfw about to get into a warm bath and continue reading the second book in what is rapidly becoming your favorite fantasy series
>>8042426
what series
>>8042432
Lankhmar
>>8042437
WOW HAVE FUN READING GRAY MOUSER AND SOAKING YOUR DECREPIT OLD MAN BONES LMAO DID YOU REMEMBER TO TAKE YOUR PILLS
>>8042447
Jesus Christ, fuck off.
>>8042495
Can you stop? It's really not funny anymore. No one should take my chart seriously, I made it solely to troll a bit.
>>8042523
>all these false flags
>>8041576
Turns out he's autistic when it comes to anything religious. Explains the lack of understanding of religious themed novels.
This is the review for the Torah.
>>8042544
To be fair religion IS pretty gibberish.
I'm new to reading science fiction
Always enjoyed other sci fi media but got into reading some of lovecraft's short stories
I just started reading foundation and am enjoying it so far
anyone have any good recommendations ??
>>8042556
C. J. Cherryh's The Pride of Chanur
This book is proving to be one of the best blind purchases. I am not surprised it is on many of the recommendation charts around here. For 1949 it neither feels dated or irrelevant - and all manner of interesting consequences and ideas, plainly written.
My next read will probably be The Forever War or Canticle For Leibowitz.
>>8042556
Are you incapable of reading the OP for any reason?
>>8042552
You also seem to have autism in relation to it.
>>8042556
Foundation by Asimov
Dune by Herbert
2001: A Space Odyssey by Clarke
A Scanner Darkly by Philip K. Dick
Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin
Fifth Head of Cerberus by Gene Wolfe
Nova by Delany
Lord of Light by Zelanzy
These are in my experience best representatives of various things science fiction did and is about, after these you should have a solid experience of it and can work from there if you wish to delve deeper.
>>8042574
To be honest charts are usually a mess when it comes to finding recommendations. Scifi one is good, but fantasy is a minefield.
It also isn't as good as a friendly comment which gives more specific reasons for reading something.
>>8042573
Canticle for Liebowitz is a solid novel, faithful depiction of monks, Catholic theology and really spooky because how drastic the Vatican II actually was- he expected the church to keep Latin, because it was a part of its identity.
>>8042597
stop impersonating me
>>8040827
Foundation's Edge
>>8042602
>To be honest charts are usually a mess
Yes master?
Besides Dune, what's some good epic fantasy with lots of sides at war, political intrigue, interesting characters, and so on?
Already read ASOIAF. Something better than that would be nice.
I'm already caught up on Bakker.
>>8040827
... The French Revolution
But I plan on finishing Short Sun and picking up Delany soon.
>>8042615
Malazan
>>8042615
Book of the Long Sun in the second half deals with a 3 side war and has 30 or so reasonably well developed characters, but is due to the style incredibly dull. Retrospectively more enjoyable than in the moment, so thinking about it is nicer then reading it itself.
But the positives are that the whole approach to war is completely different to Game of thrones or First Law or other grimdark novels, it is much more human in portrayal without massive plans by secretive Jews and assassinations and slaughter.
People recommend Malazan but I stopped with the first which was unreadable. People claim it picked off. At that point would have probably rather shot myself in the foot then read another one.
How many pages do you read a day?
>>8042644
Did you finish the first? Then you might as well try book #2. It really does pick up.
>>8042646
Anything from 50 to 150, depending on the prose style and how much I'm enjoying it.
>>8042646
It varies. If I'm reading I read, otherwise I don't. Basically up to 600 pages in a 24 hour period.
>>8041516
Pretty much all of the dreams and stories in BOTNS are relevant to the plot in one way or another.
>>8041963
The x means I read those right?
Thanks anon you are doing God's work.
>>8042878
Yes, indeed! X marks the spot where treasure can be found!
>>8042573
Seconding 'Earth Abides'. Great book.
What do you all think of the Dying Earth books? Good way of getting into non-cyberpunk scifi for someone whose sff experience is mostly with sword and sorcery?
>>8040827
Ringworld
>>8040827
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser book #2: Swords Against Death.
>>8040828
> technology
Faster than light engines, I hope for mankind's sake someone will create this
>concept?
exploring an ancient alien structure. I don't really like when they invent an alien but ancient or inexistent alien species like Rendez-Vous with Rama.
>>8041449
I think Sorcerer's House is a conscious attempt on Wolfe's part to mimic the writing style of Gaiman (with whom Wolfe is friends). The exercise is successful, but, like many of Gaiman's books, the result is mediocre.
>>8041499
I wasn't a big fan of Home Fires. I'd put it below The Sorcerer's House, though close.
I consider Pandora by Holly Hollander an underrated Wolfe work.
>>8042811
And the conclusion only seems out of nowhere if you're dumb.
>>8043086
I think it's more likely four or five anons fucking with each other.
>>8042837
Bretty gud. I do have a question about your categorization.
Your title, Modern Fantasy, elicits the expectation of recent works that fall into the fantasy genre. I see several that, while generally good books, do not conform. I suspect you were aiming for a more general list, and in that have succeeded. Mayhaps a more pertinent title is indicated? In any case, thanks for the chart. I don't follow new releases and might like to try some choice titles (currently reading Malazan).
Do any of you ever have two or more books going at a time, or do you tend to read one book, only working on it until it's done?
If epic fantasy authors have their big, complicated stories all plotted out before they write the first one, why is it that some of them take five to ten years per book when, during the pulp era, some authors cranked out full novels off the tops of their heads in a week? Sure, they weren't all great, but they didn't have an outline already prepared, and some of them were still fucking magnificent.
Are epic fantasy authors just a bunch of lazy fucks?
>>8043153
>Are epic fantasy authors just a bunch of lazy fucks?
Pretty much.
>>8040827
Started Shadow of the Torturer some days ago. Due to shenanigans, i could only read 1 chapter a day so far.
Just finished the Triskele chapter, and goddamn, i can only imagine the immense ammount of research Wolfe did back then to add all these references in an era where internet wasn't a thing; and i'm only in the 5th chapter, so i'm sure i'll see a lot of other shit that i'll have to google later on.
>Severian admits in the third chapter that he's partly insane, having lied to everyone all his life, so not even he knows if he isn't lying to himself as well
Well shit, and this is the kind of dude we get as a narrator.
>>8043153
Probably because by "all plotted out" most mean a three page outline for a five book series, and if they hit it big with the first one they don't have much motivation to go fast. And while back in the day people like PKD used to write 10 books a year, half of the credit for that goes to him and half goes to the wonders of amphetamines.
>>8043182
>Probably because by "all plotted out" most mean a three page outline for a five book series, and if they hit it big with the first one they don't have much motivation to go fast.
Is "moderately successful fantasy novel" money really "you don't need another one next year" money?
>And while back in the day people like PKD used to write 10 books a year, half of the credit for that goes to him and half goes to the wonders of amphetamines.
I'm not asking for 10 books a year. I'm asking for one book a year, or even every two years.
This isn't aimed at anyone specific, by the way. I just think it's ridiculous that some of them take so goddamn long to publish a book that they've supposedly already thought out.
>>8043197
Just start reading urban fantasy. Jim Butcher puts out two or three books a year :^)
>>8043153
Also jewing.
>plot out three books
>really famous
>end up with 12
>>8043197
Well, if you don't have anyone particular in mind, then I can't say whether the money was enough so that they don't have to worry about publishing for a while. The names I most readily associate with this problem (GRRM, Robert Jordan, Rothfuss) certainly made enough to cost on the money for for a decade or two (or till they die, as the case may be).
>>8042954
>Dying Earth
>sci-fi
el o el
>>8042666
>No, and it was 6 years ago. It's one of those I'll always have something better to read then thousands of pages of this
It is a shame you are so close minded anon, it really is a good series.
About to read the first book in the Riyria series. I'll let you know how good or bad it is.
>>8043246
What else would you call it?
>>8043354
It's straight up fantasy with a post-apocalyptic Earth backdrop.
>magical artifacts
>wizards waging war
>the source of Vancian magic, which would become the backbone of the Dungeons and Dragons magic system
>>8043363
>which would become the backbone of the Dungeons and Dragons magic system
It's just too bad D&D stripped the magic of all the interesting flavor Vance gave it.
>>8043370
Well it's more that a lot of magic systems that are good in fiction just don't translate well into game mechanics.
That won't stop autists from trying to convert every magic system ever into d20, though.
Riyria stupid shit count is 3 and I'm like two paragraphs in.
So far, we have a little girl member of a trio of bandits, an oversized sword on someone's back, and the aforementioned little girl holding a bowstring drawn back for what, based on a reasonable rate of speech, is over 30 seconds.
>>8043403
That's true. As far as magic goes, though, part of me wishes D&D had taken a more swords & sorcery approach, where magic is mysterious and dangerous and even wizards have to be careful with it.
Any recommendations similar to The Way of Shadows? It's probably my favourite fantasy series, I have read/am reading The Black Prism series.
Unrelated note just finish a book called Positive it was about Zombies, was fairly decent, some of the writing was a little stale.
>>8043413
Oh, hey. They mentioned the bow being drawn back so long. It was just for show and is basically a toy bow.
That's something, at least. This could grow on me.Still doubt I'll like it more than Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, though.
What are your favorite fantasy bromances/friendships?
Somewhat related, are there any that actually do romance well?
>>8043476
Ryria?
Any good fantasy series that are only one book in and quite popular, where I can get in on the anxious waiting and theorizing and shit?
I've never been part of a massive crowd of fans awaiting the next entry in a huge fantasy series. I know it seems weird, but I'm kind of envious and want to participate.
>>8043476
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.
>>8043476
Tristen and Cefwyn.
>>8043476
Sam and Frodo
Severian and Jonas
What SFF character reminds you most strongly of yourself?
>>8043574
Is there a character who's extremely confident in his ability to get shit done, has plenty of friends and family who love him, but spends way too much time sitting at home depressed because he's insecure in his relationships and convinced everyone will eventually abandon him, who likes to get hammered at parties but won't have so much as a beer when he's by himself because he's afraid of becoming an alcoholic?
That character.
>>8043413
>little girl
Brb buying all of them
>>8042646
18 hours of audio per day
>>8043246
Moat of jack Vance's writing is s I fi to be fair
>>8042544
I bet he read it without a commentary.
Any good fantasy books that are in between idealistic "all the protagonists are almost selfless" and grimdark "everyone's an asshole" attitudes?
Something with complex characters motivated by a mixture of factors, some of which are selfish and some of which come from caring about others, with some ambiguity about good and evil that comes from difference of opinion rather than "well, this guy's an asshole, but that one is worse."
>>8043769
I would say that "classic" fantasy tends to be very idealistic, "grimdark" fantasy tends to be very anti-idealism, often to an unrealistic extent itself, and sword-and-sorcery at its best is in between, showing human beings who, despite possibly being more brave and skilled than any real person, make decisions based on a mixture of motivations. Consider Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. They meet while they're both trying to steal the same thing. They go on adventures because they want adventure and because they want treasure. And yet, the Mouser goes out of his way to save a little girl's life in Two Sought Adventure/The Jewels in the Forest, the first story about the two of them ever published, and the two repeatedly risk their lives for one another.
I actually really like that about s&s. The characters aren't perfectly virtuous machines, but neither are they hateful cartoon supervillains.
What were some antagonists/opposition/'bad guys' that you really enjoyed?
I felt that there was a better sense of horror for characters like Crout and Vandermeer by Gaiman, because the eerie horror of something not-human in human skin came off as a monster you can relate to, rather than some traditional sort of monster.
Also, the 'evil' motives usually revolve around "get the macguffin" or "kill the chosen one," but I'd like to find better examples of motive than that.
>>8043975
Inhibitors were neat.
>>8043975
I liked Mogget from the Old Kingdom trilogy.
Has there ever been a book that made dwarves savage barbarians instead of advanced, mountain dwelling superior craftsdwarves?
>>8051333
Black Sun Rising has a really boring plot and shit characters in the middle of some of the best worldbuilding I've seen. Basically Sanderson taken to extremes.
opinions on the r/b/g mars trilogy, worth a read?
>>8043975
Mieville's slake moths from Perdido, how they don't actually kill but consume minds and leave their victim a drooling vegetable. It's both an existential fear (loss of self) and a visceral one (an insect proboscis going into your brain), most villains only manage one or the other.
>>8043345
It's literally the fact that there are hundreds of books certainly better than Malzan put there which I want to read.
>>8043677
He's reviewed lectures on the old testament. They are equally dumb, not because of the work itself, but because of his dumb attitude.
He says in one that religious people won't like it because it's real science without bullshit spirituality.
Strange how actually reading literature hasn't given him a more keen mind, but I guess it's the cultural atmosphere and watching anime.
>>8044262
You aren't in a place to say that since you actually haven't read them, but dislike them all the same if you want
>>8044284
No, it's 100% certain that going through classics and philosophy and authors I already know are fantastic in sff are better than a 10 page series that can be said is fun and epic.
>>8044294
sure thing kiddo
>>8044280
Religion is bullshit - you'd have to be pretty dumb to fall for it.
>>8040827
LotR reread. Hiking through the Shire is so comfy.
>>8040828
>violation of mathematics being the end-all of technological prowess
Where is this from?
I read a short story in an anthology a few years back that I can't find anywhere. I seem to recall the author bio saying there were novels in the universe.
All I can remember was in part of the story a little girl figures out she can order her blood to form into little spiders she can use as spies, and her dad reads bones for forensic data that naturally gets put there when a being feels pain. That part might have been a flashback, but there was an adult woman teacher who crosses an ocean on this enormous pain-powered liner, and she finds out her dad paid for her ticket by volunteering as fuel.
>>8041520
Absolutely. Get followers on Twitter or wherever, put your serial episodes on Amazon for two bucks. Not hard at all.
>>8041600
>>8041576
>LotR is generic
>Fantasy action lost prince hero man doesn't actually affect the plot much
>The Council of Wise Wizards is almost all AWOL, washed out, or evil
>Council of Elrond can't agree on anything, sends the Ring on a Hail Mary mission just to get it out of Rivendell
>Hero's half the man his sidekick is
>Hero fails, turns briefly evil, the world is saved by a fluke
>Generic lovely hometown is actually stupid and complacent, gets enslaved after the Big Bad dies
>Even the forces of nature either aren't that powerful or just don't care
Do you even know what generic/standard is?
>>8041998
>relying on other people to tell you what's trash
>>8043500
Stormlight Archives has two books, plans for ten. If you can like Sanderson you'll have all the waiting and theorizing you can stand, plus he shows good signs of actually finishing everything.
>>8043769
Lord of the Rings.
Sam's the only really selfless character, but not even the orcs are 100% evil.
>>8044356
As I've said he has autism in relation to anything religious. It's an unconscious trigger pr something.
>>8044375
Faramir is up there with Sam. Pity what the movie did to him a bit.
>>8044426
It really is a shame.
And most of the time they're fine with Eastern religious elements like in Le Guin or KSR's Years of Rice and Salt. It's just religions that remind them of their dads or something.
>>8044452
Eastern religion is removed from reality for westerners, it isn't something they consider to be the reason of the great moral evil, which is not letting men marry each other.
Also looking things in symbols and parables is no longer in fashion and both New Sun and Lotr are filled with that.
>>8041516
>>8041576
>One Punch Man somehow manages to remain entertaining for a whole thirteen episodes
>somehow manages to remain entertaining
>>8044547
What's your point?
>>8044551
That 13 episodes isn't actually much of an achievement in terms of stretching the script.
>>8044574
It might seem like it considering the concept is basically "this guy is the strongest dude". That could easily get old.
>>8044587
It does really, in the manga. The anime has the saving grace of great direction and music, but the manga is seriously dull.
Although I only watched 4 episodes of the anime. Manga takes like 2 hours to read because text is mostly redundant.
>>8044591
The problem with the manga is there's an update once a month and it's like 8 pages long.
>>8044547
>good stories can't just be episodic set pieces around a central conceit
>>8044596
>he doesn't know about ONE
>>8044596
Also that it's extremely dull and pointless. It's one joke that makes for redundant action with no tension.
>>8044603
The tension comes from guessing how long the side characters will hold out and from Saitama hoping this new bad guy can take a punch.
>>8044613
That's about as tense as wondering if Jesus will be resurrected at the end.
The best part of OPM is pic related. Mostly just reading at this point for him and to see what's up with the #1 ranked guy
>>8044618
So you can probably guess that people read it for something other than that.
The strength of OPM is its large stable of side characters that are typically much better characters than Saitama, and how they deal with both a nonsensical superhero world and with a character that doesn't fit in it. You know how cape comics are constantly trying to raise the stakes but they've already threatened the Earth with destruction every year since WWII? And Superman dies, again, and the X-Men have to fight a mutant registration act, again, and dudes who are really good at karate are in this kind of warrior caste with gods. That's the sort of thing OPM is playing with.
Thoughts on One Hundred Years of Solitude?
>>8040827
Just finished Annihilation.
Enjoyed how short and quick it was to read, but VanderMeer's prose is fucked. Might dive back into a doorstopper for my next book.
>>8040799
Just finished Ender's Game, I was surprised at how moving and intriguing the book was - all even though I had watched the film so there were no huge surprises regarding the plot. In hindsight, the film held up okay, but I am glad I watched the film first so I wasn't disappointed in comparison to how strongly I feel about the book.
Should I get the sequels to Ender's Game and read those? Are they as good or worth it at all? Any opinions or thoughts on the books and the film?
>>8045002
Speaker for the Dead is great. The rest are hit and miss.
>>8045017
I guess I'll read that and see if I want to keep going then. I was really impressed how Card managed to make a book about children interesting.
>>8044961
I've never found myself in the mood of picking it up. A friend of mine loves him, but he never claimed it was high quality literature, but he said it made his heart melt because of all the sentimentality.
I've read Kundera and I somehow mentally have an image of him for Marquez which is sort of a strange barrier.
>>8045002
>entire twist is based around FTL being impossible
>movie just puts Ender on a ship with warp drive and takes him to the front
I really did not like the movie.
