Opinions on this book and on black literature in general.
That book was literal trash.
Black literature in general is mostly focused around dindus or "muh racism." There was a black literature thread in here in the past, and pretty much every single good book boiled down to those two concepts.
>>8030797
>Black literature focuses on black people and racism
I mean the racism part is arguably not the only thing they could be talking about but why the fuck would you call it black lit if it wasn't about black people.
are you dumb. read gloria naylor you stupid faggots.
>>8030784
bad book, poor diaspora
>>8030797
You are so retarded, my god
>>8030842
Take the fucking redpill, sheep
>>8030835
>They are simply inferior of mind. Both women and blacks
black women are the lowest of the lowest
>>8030835
>They are simply inferior of mind. Both women and blacks
He said anonymously, where nobody could see his imperfections and if he was challenged he could claim to be anyone on the internet. It was the perfect safeguard but it could never undo the pain of seeing black people dating HIS white women.
You're asking the completely wrong crowd OP
Cant expect these guys to have ready anything but the meme trilogy and Name of the Wnd
Are there any good novels by black authors that aren't mostly about race?
>>8030864
they all always are like - ooga booga, my homies so suffer
>>8030864
Not a single one
>>8030854
>black people dating HIS white women.
I'm arab tho
>>8030864
If you count Pushkin as black, or Dumas.
Actual art is damn hard to produce, even in established cultures. You can't very well expect a poverty ridden people to do so.
That said, I expect black art to come mostly from France or the continent of Africa. American blacks see everything in the vulgar generalization of race, so they are unlikely to produce anything worth preserving for quite some time.
Ralph Ellison
>>8030889
>>8030911
Most Black art is in music, dance and actual art.
>>8030914
is piss poor
>>8030918
So is everyone else you dislike I guess
>>8030923
Platitude mongers make shit art tbqh
>>8030864
gloria naylor. damn you niggers are dumb
>>8030926
Le my opinion of a work makes it objectively bad!!!!
Shut the fuck up.
>>8030949
Le my nothing can be bad since everything is le subjective!!!
Shut the fuck up.
>>8030914
>Ellison is best known for his novel Invisible Man
>Invisible Man is a novel by Ralph Ellison about an African American man whose color renders him invisible, published by Random House in 1952. It addresses many of the social and intellectual issues facing African-Americans early in the twentieth century, including black nationalism, the relationship between black identity and Marxism...
yet another ooga booga my homies suffer
>>8030797
Authors typically write about their own people, like Fitzgerald wrote about white people and Dostevsky wrote about drunk russians
>>8031153
theyll argue that it was actually some grand humanistic metaphor or some bullshit which really boils down to "if its white its alright"
>>8031144
ellison uses the 'black experience' as a launching point to delve into deeper issues of identity. his work is not 'about' race, it merely uses the subject as a vehicle to get at something broader, more universal.
if you avoid invisible man you're merely depriving yourself of something great.
>>8030864
samuel delaney, of course
>>8031203
>black experience
There isn't one, this is pure platitude
>>8031289
t. white guy
>>8031299
I'm an arab tho
and your "black experience" is pure ideology
>>8031304
All its in reference to is the common experiences of many Blacks in America
I'm sure you're smart enough to understand that a young Arab kids experience is pretty different than a young Blacks or even a young Whites, thats all that the term is aiming at.
>>8030797
white literature in general is mostly focused around crackas or "muh mid-life crisis." There are white literature threads literally all the time here, and pretty much every single book boiled down to those two concepts.
>>8031321
>common experiences
There are no such things.
>I'm sure you're smart enough to understand that a young Arab kids experience is pretty different than a young Blacks or even a young Whites
It isn't
>>8031331
>white literature in general is mostly focused around
The difference being the whites have Shakespeare, Milton, Homer, etc
You have? Everything is bad in general, but you don't proffer a single good work.
>>8031333
Now we're just lying.
It focus too much on racism.
>>8031341
So easy to claim authors who have been dead for centuries and know no inkling of the shitheap Western culture has become.
>>8031343
>Now we're just lying.
No, we aren't. Why do you blacks think all minorities are simpletons like yourselves?
>durr muh skin color defines me
Fuck off and start making real art if you don't like to be told you're shit
>>8031341
Hurrr literature is secretly a contest about which race can have the most beloved books.
>>8031304
>be of different race and culture
>deny another culture has experienced an important period in their history
Allahu backbarf, my friend.
>>8031348
>So easy to claim authors who have been dead for centuries
Like Yeats, Joyce, Nabokov, Pynchon, Ashbury, Faulkner, Eliot, Robbe-Grillet, etc?
>>8031352
I didnt say shit about it "defining" anyone, I simply told you the definition of the term and the ideas its based from.
For you to tell me in all seriousness that an Arab child or a Black child would not have different experiences is just pure delusion. I dont give a fuck how much you spout Sterner memes.
>>8031355
>Hurrr literature is secretly a contest about which race can have the most beloved books.
You're the ones who treat as such by insisting that trash is good simply because it came from your race
>>8031356
>be of different race and culture
I was raised in a Western country. Morever, to be cultured is to throw off your race and nationality and be an individual.
>>8031359
>Yeats, Joyce, Faulkner, Eliot
Only ones worth mentioning
>>8031341
did you just pool English and ancient Greeks in the same group?
hey Denaynay! cum'ere n look at this white boy, he wilin out lmaooo
>>8031367
>For you to tell me in all seriousness that an Arab child or a Black child would not have different experiences is just pure delusion. I dont give a fuck how much you spout Sterner memes.
The differences are trivial. Black Americans are very similar to southern whites, culturally. Nationality is much more important than race, but even nationality can hold a writer back.
You probably have some cliche poshlost view of my le arab childhood
>>8031368
>culture
>individual
Que dices, puto?
>>8031368
Fuck you.
Actually wait, considering what your race and nationality likes to do, keep it up.
>>8031371
>did you just pool English and ancient Greeks in the same group?
Yes, isn't that what the word "white" already does?
I can include Proust and Heine if it makes you feel better
>>8031374
>Nationality is much more important than race
I disagree.
>>8030784
Story about love. Tried reading the first few chapters, kind of hard to get through.
I actually finished Sula, which was pretty good.
Color of Water, really good.
Not really immersed in the works of black authors, wish I could say more. This is 4chan, so most of the comments are race-baiting and retarded people posturing as edgy.
>>8031304
Heres an ideology for ya: I just took a long ass piss on the Quran.
>>8031386
>I disagree.
You're objectively wrong bb
>>8031374
As an Arab raised Western society you already have a different experience than an Arab in say Syria.
You do bring up a good point in that its not purely about race but culture, but also know that race and culture are very closely allied. Thats where terms like "black experience" come from. No matter how much you may dislike it.
>>8031367
The sole relevant factor is socio-economical status. A poor White person living in the outskirts of London will suffer far, far more than a Black investment banker or a rich Arab Lebanese schooled in a private institution in France. It's stupid to think there are still a substantial inherent racial discrimination today. Blacks feel they're discriminated because they're Black but that's because they're poor.
>>8031347
This book in particular? I read it. It's pretty tame if you're looking for books on racism, especially for the time period the book was based on.
>>8030784
This book is trash, but it isn't because a black person wrote it, it's because it's written by a black person who has bought into the KANGZ mentality. It's incredibly gnostic in its approach, to an annoying degree, plus it's badly written
>>8031399
I dont really disagree but its totally off the point.
>>8031395
Just a cursory glance at a list of people widely-considered to be the finest writers humanity has ever produced kind of vindicates my position.
>>8031397
>u already have a different experience than an Arab in say Syria.
That's my point. I can relate to my fellow Canadians, but not to actual middle easterners.
>, but also know that race and culture are very closely allied.
nonsense, it depends completely upon the individual
> No matter how much you may dislike it.
I don't recognize it famalam
>>8031405
>Just a cursory glance at a list of people widely-considered to be the finest writers humanity has ever produced kind of vindicates my position.
How? 9/10 are white, some are indian or arab, and some are chinese shit that no westerner has actually judged properly
>>8031406
If you didnt recognize it you wouldnt have ever had this conversation lol
>nonsense, it depends completely upon the individual
Stop thinking I'm saying they're the same. I'm saying they're closely related which any history book can tell you.
>>8031414
>If you didnt recognize it you wouldnt have ever had this conversation lol
Sounds like nonsense
>I'm saying they're closely related
They aren't. There's more space between individuals than between cultures.
>>8030797
>>8030797
>he thinks blacks are reading that not white people
There's black literature for white and boring middle class people who think they should have an opinion of race just in case they ever get important enough for someone to ask them.
Then there's actual black literature, like Iceberg Slim, which is probably more aptly called literature than the books you've been reading to form this opinion.
>>8031420
>Sounds like nonsense
>just "Sounds"
you shouldn't think so shallowly
>They aren't. There's more space between individuals than between cultures.
This is where the term sub-cultures come in, but thats going off in by-ways.
The existence of nations, especially Western ones, definitely looses the tie between race and culture, but in many places it is still very much a reality where the both are closely interrelated. A good example being Polynesians.
My point in the original post was to highlight that Black literature as a whole has been, traditionally, uninspired. It's not difficult to write about racism if that is the reality you've experienced, but there is not quintessential White literature that discusses any concepts unique to White culture.
And if you choose to say that every book written by a White person has been about exclusively "White" concepts - are you then saying that every concept of writing was created by the West? Speaking realistically- the answer is yes- the West has contributed magnitudes more to literature than any other culture.
>>8031447
The reason for this being
>You guys are only considering works written by American Blacks in this in this idea of "Black Literature"
>You guys lay claim to the thousands of years of literature written across continents when you think of "White" literature
When you compare a puddle to a fucking lake obviously one will seem particularly limited.
>>8031452
>When you compare a puddle to a fucking lake obviously one will seem particularly limited.
Such is reality
>>8031447
>My point in the original post was to highlight that Black literature as a whole has been, traditionally, uninspired. It's not difficult to write about racism if that is the reality you've experienced, but there is not quintessential White literature that discusses any concepts unique to White culture.
> White person has been about exclusively "White" concepts - are you then saying that every concept of writing was created by the West?
Do you think black people came up with the idea of White people? Besides, the best book about US white culture was written by a black man.There's numerous white cultures and you can't name a book from any of them, kek.
>>8031401
In general. The Black literature focuses too much on racism and race struggle, to the point it's slowly melting in their identity. The problem with such literatures—it also concerns the so-called “LGBT” one—is that its core is victimhood, and to persist—to survive—it has to maintain a quite high level of oppression, so the rhetorics still has sense. It's a vicious scheme; Black literature condemns inequality, so there must be some oppression, so there's something to denounce in a book. It's a never-ending cycle of complaining and grudge, and honestly I don't think how this can help a Black person as an individual to raise himself beyond the spoilt position, especially when the majority is keen to intervene and comfort him. It's pretty ironic this setting that privileges and honors equality-based literature most likely arises in an environment that already has a relatively high degree of equality. Don't get me wrong, I dreadingly read Martin Luther King's discourses, and still have a high respect for Aimé Césaire, Léopold Senghor or Patrick Lumumba's impassioned speech about Africans' managing their own future. But it's over. Now we have Toni Morrison, Chinua Achebe, James Emanuel, Amiri Baraka. What are the deep struggles of getting a Nobel prize, making something like 200,000$ a year as a college professor, earning fortunes in royalties, frequently writing in The New York Times or sending his children to a 50,000$ private school? The sole Black writers I still have some admiration for are actually from the regionalism movement, like Ben Okri, who understood there's a life after the colonization and that the Black most go on and focus on something else.
>>8031404
It's relevant. Black authors are missing the point, and I would even add purposely missing the point since they would be flagged as belonging to the wrong side themselves if they did care about the real parameters in someone's life. Suffering from the lack of halal menu in the first class lounge of Schiphol airport or seeing few Black people in his children school's Eve's play are derisory troubles. The Black literature must disappear. Its definition makes no sense, there's nothing that ties an upper-middle class Black physician with a Nigerian girl who had her genitalia mutilated or a rich business man living a penthouse in Lagos.
>>8031447
>I have read very little black literature yet feel qualified to comment on it as a whole
fuuuuuuck off
>>8031538
i don't know if you know this but Marlon James is black and gay. death of the author can have awful consequences like reading people who probably appear on Oprah.
>Suffering from the lack of halal menu in the first class lounge of Schiphol airport
at least pick a shitty airport like Newark if you're going to pretend to talk about literature. the suspension of disbelief only goes so far, and it'd fall flat like writing about the hell of being delayed Zurich airport for smokers.
>>8031538
I can agree that the distinction is limiting and considerably counter productive, but I also think we should be careful to know those issue arises cheifly among American Blacks and should address them directly.
So long as victim mentality and resentment stirrs among American Blacks and minority worship continues among the liberal Whites (who are filling almost every publishing house) it will be hard for anything to change regard what we know as "Black literature", but I think we can presume it will change, since even American Blacks are getting sick of it.
>>8031544
>>I have read very little black literature
may be if they tried to write literature instead of black literature
It's simple then, to everyone denying that race is a central theme of virtually all Black literature: name us books that are written by Black authors that do not discuss race - they can't be historical works or textbooks.
>>8031595
kek
dindus btfo in this whole thread tbqh
>>8031609
from this thread it seems that only gloria naylor fits it
>>8031609
Dumas
>>8031620
Which novel(s) in particular? I've only ever read The Women of Brewster Place and it had race as a central theme of the work.
>>8031609
I dont think anyone denied its a huge part, the thread seemed more of an exploration why.
And id stop the whole "us" thing, this is an Anonymous imageboard and that shit is cringe.
>Blacks arent allowed to write about Black people
>>8031609
>he missed the gay themes in James Baldwin
>he saw racial subtext tho
m8, you're so deep in the closet, I think you need to read Narnia more than black literature right now.
>>8031588
>we should be careful to know those issue arises chiefly among American Blacks and should address them directly
No, we should address to people who do struggle with those issues, and we should be aware this group has a name, “poverty”. It excludes the few Black people who aren't qualified and includes the majority, which is fine, exempting us the victimhood contest that will inevitably arises. What about the Arab? What about the Muslim? What about the Mexican? What about the native American community? No, let's stick with the pertinent variable and flush away the irrelevant ones. This way, we can hope the Black will cease to be spoon-fed by deluded liberals and create genuine pieces of art.
>>8031609
Actually, a lot. I mentioned Ben Okri but I could also talk about Wole Soyinka or Buchi Emecheta, who wrote on sexual violence, motherhood, African borders, war, religion, ethnicity conflicts and so on, and the whole regionalist current as a whole.
I post it on the wrong thread. My bad.
>>8031647
You're completely misunderstanding the concept. You can write about your environment - be it white or black - without the racial subtext, and specifically without the white vs. black struggle in African-American culture.
>>8031647
you can write about black people being oppressed all you want. just dont expect people to not be tired of it, or consider it great literature.
>it's a /pol/ tries to pretend YA is literature thread
>/pol/ only reads YA and wants everyone to agree it's shit
well, you can lead a whore to culture but you cannot make her think
>>8031657
I think we're talking across each other, the idea was that if "Black Literature" is so incestuous but the authors in question are typically American, the examination ahould be there instead of say lumping in African authors in this bundle, since they operate in completely different ways
>>8031675
>reads for plot
>>8031664
Lots of Black authors do that though, and honestly it seems people like to think merely having Black characters is "racial subtext" which is dumb as fuck and shows they dont even want to read beyond face value
>>8031713
>Will you visit each thread to post this sentence?
reading for prose is the greatest meme of all time, it is the life of language.
>>8031713
Sounds like you got assblasted in several threads for being an illiterate philistine.
>>8031739
I'm not the person he's answering too, I'm just curious a seemingly unique individual is bored enough to visit each thread and post the same whoring line.
>>8031380
we wuz boyfuckers n shiet
>>8030784
The book itself was bland.
Black literature in general isn't worth your time. You may find a decent book or two but they don't outweigh the time it takes to find them.
>>8032413
>you may find a decent book or two but they don't outweigh the time it takes to find them
That's the case for every book, whatever the literature it belongs to, and that's why we have reading guides, bibliographies, critics or extracts to arbitrage the situation and have an opinion about books we didn't read.
>>8030842
Not redpill, he isnt wrong.
Many black authors obsess on race, which is why pic related and his previous works are so great (probably because he isnt an american black who's ancestors were completely traumatized)
Also, Thiong'o and Chigozie Obioma are based.
I cant think of many American blacks that I respect as authors however
>>8032513
>(probably because he isnt an american black who's ancestors were completely traumatized)
That said, his ancestors were jamaican slaves, who had it worse
Ralph Ellison's The Invisible Man is a good book book and you should read it.
>>8032671
R A C I S M
A
C
I
S
M
>>8032513
What about Samuel Delany?
>>8031374
>the differences are trivial
No they aren't there are major differences in how they're treated and what their values are
>>8032671
I got this for free the other day. It's long, is it really worth the read?
e/lit/ists opinion of pic related?
I enjoyed it but the writing is a bit blunt for my tastes
>>8033424
Better than their eyes were watching god that's for sure
I finished this book today. It was okay, the breaks in colloquial language in the characters' speech to emphasize severity are pretty great though.
Also race is an extremely complicated subject that will probably never be approached in an all encompassing way. If you don't think it is (complicated) then your lazy.
>>8030797
Suggesting if you actually read the book there were hardly any white guys in the novel at all, and the main focus was on Janie's identity through speech in her search for the horizon. Not that it's a very good book, just don't be conceited by your sense of racial superiority, it makes your opinion biased and therefore invalid.
>Semi-bait from OP meant to start a shitstorm
>All these butthurt niggers from reddit proving him right
God I hate this board sometimes
>>8035306
Nice shit-post
Definitely contributes to the discussion
>>8035312
>The discussion
>Haha dumb niggers can't into literature xDDDDD amirite /pol/
>WAAAAH, YOU'RE FUCKING A WHITE MALE
>>8035321
Good point, but doesn't mean he has to add to the stupidity
>>8033413
It isn't that long, and it is a good read.
>>8035285
>their eyes were watching god
reading of it on the wikipedia
>Nanny, Janie's grandmother, was a slave who was raped by her owner and gave birth to a mixed-race daughter Leafy. Nanny escaped from her jealous mistress and found a good home after the end of the American Civil War. Nanny tried to create a good life for her daughter, but Leafy was raped by her school teacher...
wtf is that rape galore
>Nanny transfers all the hopes she had for Leafy to Janie. When Janie is sixteen, Nanny sees her kissing a neighborhood boy, Johnny Taylor, and fears that Janie will become a "mule" to some man wanting her only for her body and labour.
>Nanny arranges for Janie to marry Logan Killicks, an older man and farmer looking for a wife.
implying that farmer didn't want her for her body and labor, can the niggers even think critically?
>Janie has the idea that marriage must involve love, forged in a pivotal early scene where she sees bees pollinating a pear tree, and believes that marriage is the human equivalent to this natural process.
ughm, what
>>8031153
gatsby was a Jew
why are you on this board
>>8030784
If only Hurston would stop with the fucking eye dialect.
>>8035360
When did I praise their eyes were watching god? I like the fact that you point out the author's black, and consider that the reason the book is meh.
>Rape was mentioned in one chapter, don't know what you mean by rape galore
>Logan Killicks was a farmer who was stable financially and materialistically, benefits that Nanny valued heavily over due to the fact that she was a slave who was (trigger warning) oppressed. Janie has some self-reflection on her differing values of marriage from that of Nanny later in the novel
>Yeah I didn't like that metaphor so you're talking to the wrong person
The book was just something that I...well, read. I didn't really have any attachment to it. It wasn't that it was necessarily bad, but it also wasn't that great.
Also, some of the dialect is hard to read since it's written in very colloquial vocabulary and structure. Try to do the audiobook.
>>8035416
Agreed, I actually got annoyed by how hard the book was making me work to understand their dialect, when the book itself and the concepts presented weren't that abstract or thought provoking
>>8030784
I loved the prose which sucks because the content made me want to kill myself, God that shit is boring. Fuck off, Janie, your life wouldn't be so bad if you didn't marry just an asshole who came along.
>>8031609
Off the top of my head:
Dumas's books
>>8037436
also Sundiata and Somali poetry
>>8031153
Dostoevsky wrote about all kinds of Russians, having all kinds of views and perspectives.
He also wrote polish people and Jews.
>>8033424
DUDE
YAMS
LMAO
The prose was shit and it was Eat, Pray, Love: the book + a random Biblical storm that made no sense. Morrison is a lot better, and is much better than 90% of the crackers /lit/ jerks off to.
