What should I know/read before attempting to read The Iliad and Odyssey?
I've read that you need to be familiar with greek mythology to read it. Also, all I've ever read have been shitty pop-fiction books. Is there anything I can do to increase my comprehension of them?
>>8011847
They're both easy as fuck, man. Just read them.
>>8011847
This: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/215485.The_World_of_Odysseus
Read Greek: An Intensive Course and The Cambridge Guide to Homer.
>>8011847
you could listen to lombardo on audio book
>>8011866
I thought you read this afterwards not to spoil yourself.
>>8011893
>reading for plot
Co-opting OP's thread to ask: What is the best translation of The Iliad? I was going to buy the Penguin version which is translated by Robert Fagles, but honestly have no idea what the best translations of it are.
Just read them. Better action than braveheart
>>8012000
fagles is considered the best
>>8012021
Alright cool, thanks anon.
>>8012000
Someone knowledgeable should really write a guide about this and put it in the sticky or something.
>>8011847
Fuck, I read that comic countless times as a kid.
>>8011847
>What should I know
Homeric, classical and koine greek as well as latin so you can see where the Ænglisch translations get it from.
>>8012021
Not really. People who have actually read the greek original say that Lattimore is the best.
english sucks, even the worst russian translations (the more so the best ones) are always in full hexameter instead of that mess which fugles and lattimore is
>>8012360
>forgetting pope
You probably didn't forget though, just didn't read.
>>8012109
If you don't mind me asking, how old were you?
I tried it with some adult literacy thing a while back, and it would just randomly throw in the odd too complicated word enough that it was annoying to read.
>>8012360
Wait, Russian has long and short syllables?
>>8012367
Bro, feet exist in english too, they're just different from greek.
>>8012363
Pope is by far the worst offender, but he obviously didn't try to translate it.
>>8012363
>pope
>hexameter
pope translated it in rhymed heroic couplets
the only english hexameter translation which i know it was merrill and since it's hard to pirate i'm not sure about its quality
>>8012379
Bro, I know all languages (well, European ones at least) have feet, but feet in homeric greek were defined by the length of a syllable, and very few languages today can use that method to achieve rhythm (iirc, Hungarian can)
>>8012000
I recommend Fagles' translations because he is popular and I enjoy his brisk pace. However, there are translations available in a wide range of styles; in heroic couplets, (Pope) Elizabethan verse (Chapman), more conversational (Lombardo), more formal (Lattimore). Some of the modern translations are not afraid to take the knife to entire books (Mitchell.)
And then there are the prose translations. These remain recogniseably Homeric and have a long literary tradition by now. Free from the constrains of structured verse, they are more able to include Homeric 'flavour' like his epithets, digressions, and long metaphors; all in a readable novelistic style. You may enjoy them for this reason.
People who enjoy Homer will own more than one style of translation anyway. To really get at him you need to read several translations.
As for supplementary reading it is unnecessary. The translations usually come with glossaries, end notes, and maps. However, there is Barry Strauss' book on the Trojan War, and Edith Hamilton's small reference book on Greek myth.
>>8012573
actually it's english which has long and short syllables, russian doesn't have them at all
Nothing, it's literally one of the first books to seriously initiate western literature.
>>8012000
Chapman's translation of Homer was advocated by John Keats thusly;
Much have I travell'd in the realms of gold,
And many goodly states and kingdoms seen;
Round many western islands have I been
Which bards in fealty to Apollo hold.
Oft of one wide expanse had I been told
That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne;
Yet did I never breathe its pure serene
Till I heard Chapman speak out loud and bold:
Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
When a new planet swims into his ken;
Or like stout Cortez when with eagle eyes
He star'd at the Pacific — and all his men
Look'd at each other with a wild surmise —
Silent, upon a peak in Darien.
>>8012610
i wonder what crappy translations he had read before if he liked the chapman's
>>8012000
Fagles is at the very least top 5 all time, depending on your preferences all the top translations can be considered the best. Each presents the text in different ways, highlighting different aspects of the epic.
For example:
Pope highlighted the oral tradition. the loose translation, the metre and rhyming couplets. This brings you back to the improvising bards. the song would be a little different every time depending on the performer.
Should I buy the Loeb ?
>>8013493
Can you read ancient greek?
If yes, buy it.
If no, don't buy it.
>>8011847
Nothing really. You could read Hesiod, and maybe even the Homeric hymns as some background, but knowing Perseus' or Heracles' story isn't necessary.
>>8012000
Really depends on your tastes and what you want out of it. Meter, accuracy, rhyme, readability, whatever.
>>8012000
There are probably entire dissertations written over this. Here the general consensus is Fagles, but by classics professor at my flagship state uni says Lattimore. As a layman you probably won't notice anything out of the ordinary with any given translation so go with what you can find at the local used bookstore.
>>8013522
>classics professor at my flagship state uni says Lattimore
Because he's teaching it in an academic context. If you're reading for pleasure Lattimore is over-accurate.
>>8012589
Thank you for all the information. Already have Hamilton's Greek myth book. Will be reading Strauss' Trojan war soon. One question, I already own Robert Fitzgerald's translation of The Iliad. What are your thoughts on his translation? Thanks again for all the good info.
How feasible would it be to teach yourself ancient greek over the course of say, 2 years, to read homer untranslated?
>>8013594
I haven't read a lot of Fitzgerald but he is highly regarded so if you like that, it won't be heresy to read him. Before Fagles he was the go-to translation outside of Lattimore, whose domain was the classroom. Fitzgerald aims to be direct with a more natural English style.
However, Fitzgerald does 'Greekify' the names of characters, presumably in a bid to add archaic Greek flavour e.g. Achilles becomes Akhilleus. Although I think that some editions of Fitzgerald changed this aspect.
>>8011847
Is there much enjoyment to be had reading The Iliad if I don't enjoy action at all? I have the Fagles translation, and while I don't have any qualms with it I find the first two books themselves a little bland.
>>8014188
It picks up, book two is known for being particularly grating. While there are some action heavy parts (like 12 and 13) a lot of it is people boasting, God's fucking each other around, Achilles chilling around the campfire, and a cool spy mission.
>>8014188
You'd probably like they Odyssey better, it's more voyage than page after page of Achilles and his super pals getting huge murderboners and pissing off half the gods.
>>8014798
Not really. They are more for comedic relief than anything.
>>8011847
Oh my God, I haven't seen this comic for years! I got it from my middle school library and I really loved it. I always wondered who made it, and even forgot what the cover looked like until just now. Thanks OP
>>8011847
hit the starter kit / some other good books first and work backwards to Homer.
you won't really enjoy or get anything out of it if all you've read is shitty pop-fiction books
>>8011847
If you have read anything before reading Homer in the original Greek then there is no point of even trying to read literature. You have already destroyed your brain.
>>8012298
Lattimore is the most loyal translation but Fagles is more accessible for little babies.
>>8015699
>loyal
Why do you think that must only mean "true to form"?
I think Odysseus is more interesting than Achilles.
Odysseus
>Brilliant schemer, warrior, discus thrower, carpenter, Goddesses find him irresistable
Achilles
>Short tempered brute, always crying to his mother
