Is there any genre fiction with "literary value"?
It has genre value tho
>>8009600
Then, by definition, it becomes literature
define literary value in any way that isn't a spook
>>8009619
Not being fucking shit
Wolfe (The Book of the New Sun, Peace)
Tolkien (The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion)
Peake (The Gormenghast novels)
Stephenson (Cryptonomicon)
Herbert (Dune)
Cтpyгáцкий (Пикник нa oбoчинe)
Comics:
The Walking Dead, Watchmen, Blankets, Asterios Polyp
These are books I own and consider literary.
>>8009600
is there any shit with "nutritious value"?
>>8009655
I would like to read Gormenghast but if I want the editions with the nice covers and the ones that look like garbage I have to spend ~100 shekels per book on ebay, very upsetting
fuck that
>>8009600
Is it worth to read Dune if i don't plan to continue reading the saga?
>>8009684
*not the ones that look like garbage
is there any literature with genre value?
>>8009692
I only read the first one and it was an enjoyable read. No need to go on to the others. I might read Dune Messiah and Children of Dune (maybe God Emperor) at some point but I'm not even remotely interested in the others. The first stands on its own as a complete book.
>>8009655
>Stephenson (Cryptonomicon)
wut
>>8009684
Pic is what I have, I paid $7. Is that what you meant by ugly? The Illustrated Gormenghast Trilogy's cover looks better but I went with the one I have since it was cheaper and I prefer paperback.
>>8009712
I haven't actually read that one as I just bought it. Someone told me it had literary merit, were they wrong?
>>8009600
Being genre fiction doesn't disavow a piece of work from having literary value, but it isn't literary simply based on its genre nature.
>>8009600
All the ones that set the genre, usually. It's the blind genre following that makes genre fiction shit, after all, so those that don't do that are often at least pretty good.
>>8009731
You play video games though, so nothing you say has any value whatsoever.
It by Stephen King, but that's the only one his books that I would consider literary.
Also, Station Eleven.
>>8009692
Dune stands well on its own.
The next 2 books form a trilogy with the first
The 4th book can kind of be read on its own but you will miss shit without the shittier 2nd and 3rd books and stands independent of the books after it
Books 5 and 6 form an incomplete story after 4, they were meant to be part of a trilogy with 4 standing between the two trilogies. Probably not worth reading unless you really liked everything to that point.
I'd say 1 is basically mandatory reading and 2 and 3 are good reading insofar as they make 4 more accessible. 4 is the best book in the series by a decent margin. Leto II is one of the most stand out characters I've ever read.
As to OP's question, of course. Genre is just window dressing. Nietzsche once wrote something about motifs, and how you kind of had to run the motif into the dirt before people can see beyond the motif and examine what's happening behind it. The only problem is that in most works in the genres, there is nothing behind the motif but yet more motifs and more tropes.
>>8009600
>genre fiction
Is a meme invented by second-rate publishers of crime fiction and other "serious" literature. It's a simple matter of trying to establish a pecking order.
And speaking of Prt. Prt. Memiken.
The Dildo and Frito fanbois will get totally maaad over the WoW-film. Even if there's not one single reference to Er. Er. Muhmiken they will claim that it is a horrible subversion of his Walking Around in a Ring. Proof 1A: The basket in the river-scene is Moses redux. And Moses was in muh Bible. And muh Bible is the template for everything Jar. Jar. Pipeweed wrote.
Not that it would be bad per se. Because it's all a bunch of babby's first training wheel-opression how he treats the orcs. They are...uh...evile. Yes...evile! And they...talk strangely... Yes... Talk strangely...
>>8009859
Damn, that's some delicious bait. I almost want to pretend I fell for it so I can see what else you're going to say.
>>8009846
>It
This is a great meme but enough is enough.
>>8009655
>comics
>no American Splendor
>no A Contract with God
>no Maus
>>8009872
>Maus
ebin meme
>>8009866
>2016
>still doesn't get that the cutting edge of critique and analysis of the contemporary society has been the domain of pulp sci-fi
What a poor life you live. The sci-fi mags discussed environmental issues decades before mainstream media did it.
>>8009872
>maus
holy fuck that comic is SHITTTTTTTY
>>8009884
>hating on Maus
Why? Because you can't fap to the cats in shiny SS uniforms.
You're not supposed to.
>>8009890
>You're not supposed to.
The author's dead, I do what I want.
>>8009868
Have you read it?
>>8009882
That's always been genre fiction's strength, that they're willing and able to tackle issues that more mainstream work won't by using metaphors. But is a thin social commentary enough to give a book literary merit? Is it still valuable after the issue is 'solved' so to speak? Is it valuable if the commentary doesn't accomplish anything like Brave New World that was criticized for saying nothing new or important when it came out?
>>8009894
>memeodernism
It just takes a few minutes to learn to claim that the author is dead.
Gee, I wonder why it's only plebs who take that lesson to heart?
>>8009890
>From the same guy who made Garbage Pail Kids.
Yeah, no thanks.
>>8009900
But what exactly is "literary merit"?
Hard to read because of vauge language? A "beautiful" language? Wait 30-40 years until some Harold Bloom gives his approval?
>>8009899
I've read the meme many times.
>>8009908
>rampant modernism
Who take great pains to separate "bad" from "good" culture. Please revisit Shakespeare. Poetry and fart jokes. Fart jokes and poetry. Poetry is fart jokes. Fart jokes is poetry.
>>8009916
Re-reading your post is enough poetry for me.
>>8009882
lmfao
>>8009655
>he actually reads The Walking Pleb
inb4 some faggot says "b-but it's better than the TV show!" like I haven't read the damn thing for myself
>>8009839
>implying that I don't just watch other people play video games for me
Also stay spooked friendo.
>>8009947
It's true.
>>8009969
nah
and if it is, post an excerpt that will elucidate it
>>8009600
John Williams, even though he only wrote 3 novels they're all superb
he also had a grudge against ghettoizationprobably spelled it wrongof genre fiction
>>8010066
Which John Williams?
>>8009600
Paradise Lost and the Divine Comedy.
>>8009731
I don't mean to detract from the thread, but where's this from? Image search brings up nothing at all.
>>8009872
>maus
MUH SHOAH
MUH STEREOTYPICAL JEW FATHER
MUH FRENCH WIFE
MUH DEAD JEW MOTHER
MUH DIFFICULTIES MAKING A LIVING AS A WRITER
Dune was awesome, loved the World building. The only shit bit was the end when the author wrapped up the whole thing with 50 pages to go.
>>8010210
I'm at very end of Dune since I read through most of it ladt year and I lack motivation to finish it, I'm some way past Paul taming the sandworm
Nothing is happening and nothing has happened for quite some time
>>8010218
Hmmm I read it last year, yeah there's loads of introspection type narrative from the characters and not much action in large sections.... I enjoyed it and struggle with other sci fi empire books since I don't think their detail matches this novel.
>>8010222
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the book up to this point, but now it just feels like a song that's slowly fading out, I'll skip over the 10 minute fadeout at some point and go listen to a different songnice trips
>>8010235
Nah finish it. Always good to finish a book and then moan about it on /lit/ ;) Power on through son.
>>8009846
Stephen King is not the kind of Lit that Lit elitists like. He and his work do not try to be anyway.
Stephen King writes for fun, fun for him and fun for his readers. You should not expect the no fun allowed, "my joy comes from pretending I'm better than anyone else" crowd, which makes up a lot of Lit.
It is not literature, it's horror fiction, and though it didn't validate some faggots personal identity on lit, it terrified a lot of people. Fun
>>8009949
What don't you like about The Walking Dead? I hated the television series but love the comic.
>>8010266
>Lit
what the fuck are you even doing
>>8010271
Explain which part confuses you pal.
>>8010095
>3 books
Probably referring to author of Stoner, Augustus and Butcher's Crossing.
>>8010318
He wrote a fourth novel and two pieces of poetry, and I have a hard time calling what he wrote genre fiction.
Butchers Crossing might be a Western and if you are stretching it Augustus falls into the genre fiction category since it's historical fiction, but he really isn't what this thread is looking for
>>8010342
Augustus is clearly historical fiction. It's a perfect example of what the OP requested - genre fiction with literary value.
>>8010354
Historical fiction isn't usually considered genre fiction.
>but it's fiction and has a genre, too!
That would mean that all fiction is genre fiction, and that's not true at all.
It's just not how language works, just because it's fiction and has a genre (like all fiction does) doesn't mean it's genre fiction.
For example: my cock doesn't have feathers and a beak. Words and terms aren't always literal in that way
>>8010434
>maus is brilliant go back to le place i dont le like xdDDDDD
You probably also think Watchmen and V are brilliant, too. Commie.
>>8010389
>just because it's fiction and has a genre (like all fiction does) doesn't mean it's genre fiction
I agree. But 'Augustus' is still historical fiction, which is genre fiction.
I also agree that it is much better than the average work of genre fiction, which is why it belongs in this thread - along with Gore Vidal, Marguerite Yourcenar, J.G. Farrell, Raymond Chandler, Dashiell Hammett, Daphne du Maurier, John le Carré, H.G. Wells, George Orwell, Lord Dunsany, T.H. White, Shirley Jackson, Mervyn Peake, etc. etc.
>>8010266
You're missing my point, I'm saying that It at least has merit against his other books.
>>8009729
>were they wrong?
I would say so.
It has a fun plot though. It is interesting at least.
>>8010517
And I'm sure 'The Fault in Our Stars' has merit relative to John Green's other books. Let's stick to the topic, shall we.
>>8009729
It doesn't have additional literary merit, but it does have additional intellectual merit that elevates it above typical genre fiction.
