How do game of thrones book fans feel forced to experience the new book through the filter of bad HBO writers and bad actors? Has there ever been such a cucking?
>bad HBO writers
But the books's author is also bad.
are the books any good?
never even watched the show. I don't usually like fantasy shit
I've read all of the books and the show is honestly superior. At least with the show I can get my mindless entertainment delivered in discrete chunks. I'll probably finish the series (yeah right, he'll never get around to wrapping it up) but only because I've been cucked by the sunk cost fallacy.
>>7990906
But the writers of the show are much better at what they do than GRRM is at what he does and the casting, whilst patchy, is often inspired.
Ultimately I think anybody snobbish enough to look down on 'bad HBO writers' is too snobby to like the books, so nobody actually feels the cucking that you describe.
>>7990906
Go back to /tv/, nobody likes George RR Martin here.
>>7990906
i like the tv show
>>7991015
What's your fucking problem? What does "memer" even mean? This board truly crapped in your brain man.
>>7990997
Why are they so bad? Honest question. I haven't read the books, but want to, since I've heard that they're a rare breed of fantasy series that is actually good.
>>7991029
I feel like the books are some kind of answer to LOTR, which Martin actually likes, but it seriously lacks so much things. The writing is mostly okay, sometimes really bad, the story is falsely complicated and never truly complex. It's okay, but never more.
>>7991029
I don't like them, but a huge part of the hate is because they are popular and elitism of some autistic underages that think they're smart and Infinite Jest is actually good..
>>7991021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSPUGhe2lnM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVK5KTXvnCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXr637FzC9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz-7fYR8ImA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go6O4wBcYN0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8sTIVuKUhc
lets not even talk about the melly/davos interaction this season, what the fuck
>>7990906
Who cares?
Does anyone actually try to find artistic integrity in pop fantasy novels? If so, it's their own fucking fault.
They're both good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sggmx8vysoc
>>7991040
>>they don't like something we do, so, they're memeing
nice projection, where did i say i liked the books? saying the show is better though is preposterous
People who read the books don't watch the series
The books are an interesting meditation on power and tree motivations of a group of diverse (if occasionally simplistic) characters, placed in an interesting (if occasionally cliche) fantasy world. They read like inspired great man pop history books written by someone who doesn't care too much about language. Grrm wants to play in ethical ambiguity and ask questions which fantasy tends away from (e.g. What if aragorn turned out to be a really shitty king).
The shows are an attempt to simplify and condense the story into a more manageable medium, and that often means characters without depth and a world without complexity -- two of Grrm's strongest skills. It can can be really frustrating to see entire plotlines reduced to tropes in order to fit a budget or time frame or fan service, but the spectacle of the sets / costumes is fun to watch by itself
>>7990906
But that's not true; the HBO writers/directors are making up their own plot with some similar broad strokes ideas as the uncompleted book outlines.
A really good analogous situation is the original Fullmetal Alchemist anime. Once the anime caught up to and subsequently went beyond the manga, it started to have an original plot that shared elements of what would eventually would be the manga's plot, but was ultimately very much its own thing and the manga turned out way different.
Game of Thrones is going to go the same way, for better or worse.Though probably worse because season 5 pulled off the impossible and managed to be worse than Dance, I don't expect any better from the rest of the TV series.
>>7991146
Nice meme
>>7991208
But Bones already knew that the series would caught up the manga, HBO was supposed to stay behind Martin.
>>7991208
They are are both going from point A to point B. How they get there will be different, but the way everything is wrapped up will be how grrm visioned it.
>>7990952
i believe the sunk cost fallacy is the primary reason why many viewers/readers continue with a lot of shows/books. i'm no different. Hemingway gets me every time and only afterward do i think, why the fuck did i bother finishing that?
>She was sopping wet when he entered her. “Damn you,” she said. “Damn you damn you damn you.” He sucked her nipples till she cried out half in pain and half in pleasure. Her cunt became the world.
>And suddenly his cock was out, jutting upward from his breeches like a fat pink mast.
>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water.
Sometimes the literal visual that the screenwriters present is a lot better than the one Martin conjures in your mind. I'd rather see a couple actors fucking than imagine that sweaty fat fuck jacking off while writing about a 14-year-old getting raped.
>>7991069
Lol'd. Glad I stopped watching this show a long time ago.
>>7991387
>*record scratch*
>You might be wondering how I got in this situation...
Does anyone else here hate Game of Thrones (the TV series)
Everything about it is ugly and gratuitous and cheap in my opinion. It depresses me that it is so popular.
>>7991408
The first season is fine, minus any scene with boobs.
>>7991029
Books 1 and 2 are pretty fantastic. Prose is pretty bottom tierinb4 poop scenebut George is brave in that he is willing to slaughter characters he and the reader are invested in, and he builds a fantastic world.
Book 3 is very good, although it clearly suffers from middle child syndrome, and it has some stuff that had as much power as it had in the TV show (Tyrions second trial, the red wedding). It ends on a cliff hanger.
Book 4 is one of the singular worst fantasy books of all time, both in concept, prose, structure, and in comparison to what came before. Its like if LOTR had 4 books, the third of which was the continuing adventures of Bilbo, Saruman, and Denethor. It completely ruined the series for me and I had no interest in returning for Book 5.
I've read the first two books, liked the first one a lot, wasn't huge on the second.
Not everything has to be a deep life changing literary experience.
The show is great.
>>7990906
The actors are great for the most part.
I don't mind. I've accepted since season 2 that the show and the books are different beasts, sort of parallel AUs where the events are similar but different, and the characters maybe have the same names but are eventually different people who may make different choices.
Also I think the book series got completely out of GRRM's hands, he was too enamored of his own writing and kept adding new characters and starting new subplots. A Dance With Dragons especially felt like endless traveling, pieces getting into places, preparation, this promise of some great endgame confrontation behind the horizon which still doesn't arrive and it's just boring. It would have been an absolute nightmare to turn into a faithful tv adaptation, it'd have alienated 3/4 th of the viewers.
So while the show has its weaknesses, in general I'm glad they've been harshly rewriting the plots. It had to be done. In a way it's nice the storylines differ so much, it's like 2 different stories
>>7991029
I don't think they're that bad. They're quite nice as far as fantasy goes. It's just that GRRM has his own writing quirks, he describes food a lot, and also starts to meander a bit too much in the later books. The first couple of books are somewhat nicely paced but it just expands too much.
The lore and worldbuilding is quite nice though. I don't know, I enjoy them though I can't normally stand fantasy, but then I didn't go in expecting grand literature, I just wanted to read about some scheming and swordfighting, and I'm glad the books describe the faux-medievality as gritty and there are no elves.
>>7991760
Martin's natural state is to meander. In the first three books he actually had an editor that kept him on a leash, but now that he's big and famous he doesn't let anyone critique his writing and it's completely unfocused.
Let this be a lesson for the writers of /lit/: no matter how good you become, you're never too good for an editor.
>>7991772
>In the first three books he actually had an editor that kept him on a leash, but now that he's big and famous he doesn't let anyone critique his writing and it's completely unfocused.
Yeah I suspected it might have been like that. A good editor is truly worth their weight in gold. It's so easy to get blinded by your own stuff and fall in love with the phrases so that it becomes too long, damn
>>7991772
Idk I thought the last two books were the most interesting.
>>7991029
One thing I like is that he's really good at showing the consequences of actions even in unexpected ways, you can look at an event in the book and trace back to see what caused in and so on and so on until you more than likely reach "The death of Jon Arryn" or "Robert's Rebellion" as the cause. This is the show's biggest flaw, it has shit just happening without any reason.
But god, GRRM has this really annoying fucking quirk of getting a boner over a specific word for one book, I think in 2 it was niggardly? Every other fucking chapter this word would turn up, then in 3 or 4 I think it was comely, same sort of shit. It just really fucking grates on me when reading that there'll be one bastard obscure word that'll keep cropping up.
They didn't add in Aegon to the show so I stopped watching and realized how bland the entire series is and that I don't even care about the next book.
>>7990906
The books and the show are both terrible. Did you retards grow up reading Harry Potter?
>>7990906
I like how the show changed Roose Bolton's appearance.
>>7990906
This discussion should be moved to /tv/ or /sffg/.
Pleb-tier genre trash is not literature.
The show is alright for trash entertainment, but they make the books seem not worth bothering with at all.
What a faggot. The show is literally better than the books. GRRM is a shit writer, his prose is dull and corny and his dialogue is way too try-hard for sophistication.
>>7991681
Maybe I'm misremembering some of it but despite being small he isn't described as a dwarf as such in the books. He has one eye bigger than the other and is described as being repugnant and hideously misshaped. He can ride a horse, he can fuck and he prides himself on being educated and adaptable.
There's more than enough stupidly unrealistic shit even for fantasy in those books to allow a wee cretiny man some degree of athleticism in the right situation.
It's the fucking snow that annoys me. Everything would be dead and/or buried under 100 feet of snow if half the amount of it he writes about was there
>>7991899
Seconded.
If you were on /lit/ before the show hit the mainstream audience you would know /lit/ loved the books, of course GRRM's prose isnt the best but his worldbuilding is great and that was the consensus around here.
Of course when new posters come and see shit thrown at something they ride the wagon and do the same thing. Asoiaf is still one of my favourite fantasy books no matter what these other memers think.
>>7991681
In Tyrion's very first appearance he shows some acrobatic skills. It's dropped and never even mentioned or alluded to after that IIRC. I don't know why the first appearance wasn't edited.
Tyrion is not a fantasy dwarf, but a 'real-world' dwarf.
>>7992511
That's PART of the explanation.
I think the other part of the explanation is that /lit/ has changed and doesn't value the same things it used to. /lit/ has gotten more postmodern, more prose-focused, more 'literary.' Sure, GRRM is a great worldbuilder, but how much does /lit/ value worldbuilding these days? How much should worldbuilding be valued, period? What good is it, if this amazing world has no good stories?
>>7992530
GRRM admits himself that if he could go back and change one thing in all the books he's published, it would be that scene with Tyrion
>>7992530
Nah he shows acrobatic skill in the fifth one as well.
>>7992553
Really? It's weird considering that most of the time he's described as being stunted and awkward, having difficulty keeping pace in ordinary walking, climbing up stairs and over tree roots, etc.
>>7992530
nigga they always talk about him tumbling and shit in the books.
>>7992511
>/lit/ loved the books
Bullshit.
>GRRM's prose isnt the best but his worldbuilding is great
'Worldbuilding' isn't literature. Go back to /tv/, pleb.
>>7992470
they call him a dwarf all the time in the books are you retarded. sailors rub his head for good luck. have you guys even read these books?
>>7992569
When tired and discussing mindless entertainment that I read the entirety of in the course of a month 3 or 4 years ago. Sorry if it's that serious to you. What I mean is he is described as being a bit stranger than the average real life dwarf. His first impression in winterfell, when he's with sansa, after his face get's even more fucked, the regular mention of his twisted limbs, the strange athleticism etc. He's pretty grotesque in my head.
>>7990976
what's a good alternative in a similar style of non-fiction
>>7991069
I haven't read the books but in the TV series Ramsay and the Sand Sneks are objectively awful characters. Are they this bad in the books? I really dislike the whole Faith Militant storyline as well.
>>7992567
>>/lit/ loved the books
>Bullshit.
you werent here before it happened
>'Worldbuilding' isn't literature. Go back to /tv/, pleb.
>no arguments
>he reads books only for the prose
>>7992703
I've visited lit a few times back in 2012 or 2011 and I remember seeing ASOIAF in the wiki for recommended fantasy books.
>>7992694
The TV series has slowly gone off in a different trajectory than the books in order to simplify things. There's so much rambling in the books where little happens, particularly in the 4th and 5th books (which is essentially condensed into a single series in the TV Show).
I really enjoyed the first 3 books but they're getting way too confusing now and there's so many characters.
Ramsay and the Boltons are horrible in the books too, I really enjoyed reading Theon's time under them, it's quite horrifying.
I agree with the other guys that the TV show has become better than the books. The TV show seems to get progressively over the series.
>>7992703
It's my first day in /lit/ and I primarily read non-fiction. GRRM, Tolkien and Harry Pothead is the only fantasy I've read. what does the /lit/ hivemind declare as good reading in this genre?
>>7992694
I'm basically waiting on the Greyjoys to turn up. If they fuck them up the only thing I'll have left is lusting after Daenerys. Not watched any of the new season yet.
>>7992761
The greyjoy arc is probably continued in season 6.
>>7992761
from the books it sort of seems like GRRM is setting them up to play some big events later
>>7992720
only the once and future king
>>7992720
Mean Gene
>>7990997
Nobody would read those massive tomes if they thought they were bad.
>>7992567
>'Worldbuilding' isn't literature.
You had just missed the whole point of Gulliver's Travels, you pleb.
I don't think the books are that bad desu. They're not amazing or anything, but I think GRRM has developed a very interesting world and I don't think he's nearly as bad of a writer as lit likes to suggest. I am a pleb when it comes to fantasy, so I guess people who are more experienced with the genre will roll their eyes but I enjoy it.
The show is fine too, but I think it's gotten worse as it's gone on. I think of it as trashy tv (similar to walking dead), where it's pretty much pulp entertainment.
As for the OP topic, I'm not thrilled with some of the choices for the show, but again I just don't take it that seriously and watch just for entertainment and because everyone watches it so it's easy to talk about. I still have characters I'm rooting for and plot lines I'm interested in.
I wish GRRM and his fat ass would finish the books and I wholeheartedly believe that his version will be significantly better than the show.
>>7990952
Even though the books are trash, the show manages to be worse. They've ruined the handful of decent characters that exist in the books.
>>7990952
Since I've uncucked myself I barely finish anything to be honest.
>>7992694
No, the Sand Sneks are vengeful little shits in the books too, but quickly locked up by Doran Martell. Ramsay is also a psycho, but different than in the series. On the other hand, the books have Darkstar, who is written as some edgy 16-year old's Tumblr fabrication, and Coldhands.
The Faith Militant storyline is handled different and IMO pretty interesting.
Is GRR Martin the most important femminist author of our time?
>>7994930
Fucking hell Darkstar sucks, he's seriously one of the worst characters in the series at this point, and I honestly could never quite tell if he even had any motivation to do anything at all.
Coldhands was okay though, I didn't mind that character, it fit well with the "everythings turning into traditional fantasy the further up they get" sort of thing.
Sand Snakes are okay because they're essentially just children though. They're annoying, but it's in character.
>>7996149
I've heard some people who are fans of the book say he's trying to be the Anti-Arthur Dayne, The sword of the morning. Because his house is tied with the daynes. The Sword of the Morning is said to be a title inherited within the Dayne family so my friends think he's trying to get that title.
>>7996164
I could get that, but he doesn't do anything that would get him a title, he's just really good looking and tries to kill the princess for no reason, and is also really cruel. That's all we really know about the dude, not including his family ties.
Like, this is a quote from him "Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night." It's just an edgy character for no reason, he hasn't served any purpose so far apart from just making it so Dorne has a plotline going on. At least the mountain is never claimed as being anything more than a big, extremely violent guy, that's his whole character really.
>>7993417
people would read big chunks of dumb if told too, like the bible
>>7996529
*tips fedora*
>>7996529
>big chunks of dumb
Are you six?
>>7991802
Some people also prefer the Prequel Trilogy.
>>7992176
They have.
What's happening is part of a phenomenon I wrote about a couple of years ago when I was asked to comment on Rowling. I went to the Yale bookstore and bought and read a copy of "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone." I suffered a great deal in the process. The writing was dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs." I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing.
But when I wrote that in a newspaper, I was denounced. I was told that children would now only read J.K. Rowling, and I was asked whether that wasn't, after all, better than reading nothing at all? If Rowling was what it took to make them pick up a book, wasn't that a good thing?
It is not. "Harry Potter" will not lead our children on to Kipling's "Just So Stories" or his "Jungle Book." It will not lead them to Thurber's "Thirteen Clocks" or Kenneth Grahame's "Wind in the Willows" or Lewis Carroll's "Alice."
Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same George R. R. Martin. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read A Song of Fire and Ice." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read George R. R. Martin.
>>7995016
That's Robert Jordan desu
>>7997986
But Jordan's works actually mocks about femminism and a society where women are moreso powerful than men, that's why femminist hate him.
>>7997070
B-but senpai, GRRM hates Harry Potter!
the new season is full of digressions and filler so I don't mind
I read half of the first book and I like the show more
The actors aren't really that bad
>>7991029
The books are absolutely brilliant
>>7991117
>saying the show is better though is preposterous
he didn't say that
>>7990997
triggered
>>7991899
In 4 it was nuncle.
the show's dialogue is a lot better than the books but the writers clearly have much less talent for crafting an overall story than martin does, this is showing blatantly last season and this season.
>>8000969
most of the dialogue is borrowed straight from the books
>>8001910
Borrowed from the books? Is it going to be given back at some point?
>>7990906
Just view the show as interpretation of the books, professional fanfiction.
It's entertaining in its own way without ever matching the books, which isn't the goal either way.
With less material too fall back on, and the more it diverges from the books, the worse the show gets. The acting and dialogue had gotten worse, and less interesting. It's true-blood tier at this point.
