Books on Marxism, socialism, state capitalism, Che, Cuba, etc?
Is Wheen's biography good?
>>7988152
Marxism is for half-retarded man-children who have no grasp on reality.
Although you may not be that kind of person, please do not fall for the Marxist trap, that shit kills nations.
>>7988165
Hello it is me, ex-Marxist guy. Thank you for curing me of my mental illness with your persuasive comment.
>>7988165
What nation has socialism killed? No nation has ever been socialist, only state capitalist like the Soviet Union, and Cuba and France of today.
>>7988191
Stalin was state capitalism. He claimed himself to be a socialist but that was a lie, do you really believe him? Of course, we can see now that he was lying.
>>7988152
Capital, Marx
The Theory of Capitalist Development, Sweezy
One Dimensional Man, Herbert Marcuse
>>7988191
Your previous post is entirely devoid of substance. You make a ridiculous claim and fail to support it any manner.
>The soviet union was communist
Oh, really? Did the workers communally own the means of production.
Do you even know what marxism, communism, and socialism are?
>>7988203
Would you mind giving evidence of this? Saying that Stalin wasn't a communist is like saying that Freud wasn't a psychologist.
>>7988203
Don't worry, guys. This fella will implement Socialism (a stepping stone to Communism according to Socialists) right this time.
>>7988214
Stalin promised socialism but wasn't able to make it, he made state capitalism, but he lied and said that state capitalism = socialism.
>>7988214
>Saying that Stalin wasn't a communist is like saying that Freud wasn't a psychologist.
Not really lmao. The Soviet Union under Stalin was devoid of even the most basic tenets of communism i.e communal ownership of the means of production. I think that is evidence enough that he was not a communist.
>>7988225
> Using the word "capitalism" for something that doesn't have emergent pricing
Its as though everybody decided to just forget the economic calculation problem and pretend we live in narrative world.
>>7988244
>private ownership of the means of production
>not capitalism
el mao
But does anyone have book recommendations?
>>7988208
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes
> The highest death tolls that have been documented in communist states occurred in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin, in the People's Republic of China under Mao Zedong, and in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. The estimates of the number of non-combatants killed by these three regimes alone range from a low of 21 million to a high of 70 million.
List of failed communist countries:
>http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933874.html
>http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread766356/pg1
List of failed socialist countries:
People's Democratic Republic of Algeria (15 September 1963 - 1988)
Republic of Bolivia (26 September 1969 - 21 August 1971)
Burkina Faso (4 August 1984 - 15 October 1987)
Union of Burma (4 January 1948 - 2 March 1962)
Socialist Republic of the Union of Burma (2 March 1962 - 23 September 1988)
Republic of Cape Verde (8 July 1975 - 22 March 1991)
State of Comoros (3 August 1975 - 13 May 1978)
Republic of Egypt (23 July 1952 - 22 February 1958)
Republic of Ghana (6 March 1957 - 24 February 1966), (31 December 1981 - 7 January 2001)
People's Revolutionary Republic of Guinea (2 October 1958 – 3 April 1984)
Republic of Guinea-Bissau (24 September 1973 - 17 February 2000)
Republic of Indonesia (18 August 1945 - 12 March 1967)
Republic of Iraq (14 July 1958 - 8 February 1963)
Libyan Arab Republic (1 September 1969 - 2 March 1977)
Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya (2 March 1977 - 2011)
Democratic Republic of Madagascar (21 December 1975 - 19 August 1992)
Republic of Mali (20 July 1960 - 19 November 1968)
United Mexican States (5 February 1917 - 1 December 2000)
Republic of Nicaragua (18 July 1979 - 25 April 1990)
Republic of Panama (11 October 1968 - 31 July 1981)
Republic of Peru (3 October 1968 - 30 August 1975)
Democratic Republic of São Tomé and Príncipe (12 July 1975 - 3 April 1991)
Republic of Senegal (6 September 1960 - 1 April 2000)
Republic of Seychelles (5 June 1977 - 26 July 1992)
Spanish Republic (14 April 1931 - 15 July 1939)
Democratic Republic of Sudan (25 May 1969 – 10 October 1985)
Republic of Suriname (25 February 1980 - 25 January 1988)
Republic of Tanganyika (9 December 1962 - 26 April 1964)
Republic of Uganda (15 April 1966 - 25 January 1971)
Union of African States (23 November 1958 - 1962)
United Arab Republic (22 February 1958 – 28 September 1961)
Yemen Arab Republic (27 September 1962 - 22 May 1990)
Republic of Zambia (24 October 1964 - 2 November 1991)
People's Republic of Zanzibar and Pemba (12 January - 26 April 1964)
Please go take your moronic ideology elsewhere.
>>7988252
>I haven't read Kapital
>>7988271
Stand up and rektify
>>7988271
>United Mexican States (5 February 1917 - 1 December 2000, 2012-
kekekek. Under our glorious leader and renewed proletarian revolutionary vanguard party Mexico is decidedly marching towards full communism
>>7988294
Have fun with that.
>>7988271
>the khmer rouge were communist
>We are not communists ... we are revolutionaries" who do not 'belong to the commonly accepted grouping of communist Indochina, Ieng Sary
Literally the co founder of the Khmer Rouge party disagrees with you on this. Furthermore, what communist policies did they institute. Was there communal ownership of the means of production, the abolition of the state?
I mean for christs sake they were literally U.S puppets.
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/pol/polpotmontclarion0498.html
>socialism has never worked meme
>>7988326
They can call it whatever the fuck they want but that won't change the fact that it is communist.
How can you be so dense?
>>7988152
It is still actually kinda difficult to find good books on Marxism - you always have to take them with a pinch of salt. Too many are basically the written equivalent of >>7988271 allowed to get away with awful research and writing because they serve a political purpose. There are no good histories of communism generally for that reason, although Archie Brown's The Rise and Fall of Communism is the best attempt (it still uses some questionable historiography). By country, though:
On Russia:
Failed Empire by Vladislav M. Zubok
Socialism Betrayed by Roger Keeran and Thomas Kenny.
Ten Days That Shook The World by John Reed.
On Cuba:
My Life by Fidel Castro (I know, I know, but Castro's interviewer asks him a lot of awkward questions. It's far from a whitewash).
On North Korea:
The Real North Korea by Andrei Lankov
The Cleanest Race by B.R Meyers
On China:
Red Star Over China by Edgar Snow
Mao's Last Revolution by Roderick MacFarquahar (very bad historiography and flawed analysis, but it's a servicable narrative history of the CR)
The Party by Richard McGregor (McGregor concludes that China is not socialist and suffers from the usual anti-western biases, but his factual reporting on how the CCP works is great)
The Party Forever by Rowan McGowan (also very good).I am That Guy on /lit/ who takes Chinese socialism seriously, so this list has my biases in it too. Bottom line don't believe anything 100% in this area of academia.
>>7988358
>Ayn Rand
Found the newfag.
>>7988358
>They can call it whatever the fuck they want but that won't change the fact that it is communist.
It fundamentally was not communist, you blithering fuck. It has little to do with what they call themselves, it's their actions that count.
>posting ayn rand
Seriously kill yourself
>>7988271
>Republic of Indonesia (18 August 1945 - 12 March 1967)
CIA-backed coup followed by mass murder of leftists and their families, resulted in 30 years of brutal military dictatorship. but muh virtues of the free market.
most countries in the list where either never socialist or overthrown by US-backed coups.
>>7988358
Either/or
>>7988364
*western anti-Chinese, excuse me, it's early over here
>>7988369
The bigger issue is that nothing "is communism"
Marxist apologists are constantly insisting that no no those socialists were just pretenders, no no that would have led to "communism" but for western imperialism, no no that genocide wasn't the perpetrators fault because x,y,z.
Historicism is the AIDS of epistemology. Marx was a compelling poet, and his ideology is fun mental masturbation for interpreting plays and B-tier novels with. But that ideology doesn't meaningfully reflect the world, and shouldn't be brought up in any serious discussion of society.
>>7988366
>>7988369
Why don't you fucking memelords go kill yourselves? All you cucks keep doing is spouting memes and engaging in "le epig semantic games."
>>7988369
It is the actions that count. When they engage in communist actions that makes them A FUCKING COMMUNIST. If someone murders someone and then claims that they are not a murderer, does that make them a murderer? OF COURSE IT DOES, THEY FUCKING KILLED SOMEONE.
>>7988372
> Blames actions of state run espionage department on the "free market"
Consider thinking before typing
>>7988165
The dude doesn't have to like Marxism to read about it. Just like how I read your shitty posts does not mean I endorse your projections of "half-retarded man-children".
Know thine enemy and all that.
>>7988411
What. The. Fuck. Are. You. Talking. About.
Please go sit in the corner, take a few deep breaths, then come back and make sense, pls.
>>7988411
Marxism is the most compelling analysis of history.
>>7988419
the state is often bound with business interests. free trade as imperative directly motivated US and the british empire in their imperial designs. The Opium Wars, you can't say the market was on the right that time.
>>7988419
>>7988411
This is the problem with both of you guys. Idiots who go NUH UH THE MARKET NEVER FUCKS UP or NOPE THAT WASN'T TRUE SOCIALISM instead of analysing the flaws inherent in your political frameworks honestly and without emotive bile-spitting. You are both ideological cancer.But the free market guy more since if you're going to pretend to understand a philosopher Marx was far smarter than the hacks and frauds the libertarian/neoliberal right worship.
>>7988419
What about 1953 Iranian coup? Just a mere coincidence of state espionage departments and corporatist interests?
>>7988441
And this is why no one takes Marxists seriously.
"Huh? There are alternatives to my worldview. Okay let's think. Maybe if I start attacking the person they'll go away"
>>7988465
What hacks and frauds? I've read Marx, have you read e.g. Hayek and Popper, or do you just know Ayn Rand is shitty and are deluded enough to think she represents the intellectual wing of libertarianism?
>>7988152
>Is Wheen's biography good?
>biography
>good
Necessarily no.
>>7988467
> corporatism = free markets meme
*snore*
>>7988461
We are grateful for your words of warning. O' intellectual lighthouse. Speaking of Lighthouses have you read the Lighthouse In Economics?
Heads up: this thread got linked by /his/
>>>/his/1073134
>>7988476
I studied Hayek and Popper at university, in no less detail than I studied Marx. And I understand why people buy into the Hayekian conception of justice - it's a very comforting idea, very empowering, I suppose - and I don't think Hayek himself was a total idiot. The Road to Serfdom is pretty good, if of its time. But we have seen since then that if Soviet state communism didn't work than neither has hands-off capitalism - and if you reply to this comment by telling me that nope, we haven't seen REAL hands-off capitalism, then you will have both missed my point and proven that you and your dogmatic Marxist opponent really are one and the same.
>>7988271
Love all the butt hurt reds replying to you, cowering from the truth.
>>7988326
But socialism has never worked.
>>7988499
Referring to everything you don't answer as a meme is straight up Russellsian bullshit
>>7988499
free markets have never worked, either. anarchocapitalism has huge dystopian and even totalitarian potential. The utopia say, Hoppe, or Milton Friedman's edgelord son describe is rebranded feudalism based on private militias and huge landholdings. Besides, the whole moral philosophy is complete bunk.
>>7988476
I'm not even Marxist. The anon just made no sense whatsoever. I guess you prefer unsupported polemics to intelligent conversation.
>>7988527
Which programs? They work all the time.
Damn memers
>>7988417
>Why don't you fucking memelords go kill yourselves? All you cucks keep doing is spouting memes and engaging in "le epig semantic games."
