any philosophy majors here?
what do you think of the major?
is it hard?
is it fun/?
interesting?
should I do it?
don't do it unless you're incredibly intelligent and fantastic at public speaking, OR are attending a prestigious university (Ivy or of similar status).
Even if you're getting a full ride, invest your time in something that will pay back so you can have the leisure time in your future to delve into philosophy while making stacks.
There are plenty of more practical majors when it comes to English/Humanities as well, you don't have to go STEM to do it.
>>7976904
>state university
>take 4-5 upper level philosophy courses for fun
>50% aspiring law students who are total shitters
>50% greasy neckbeards and unattractive women with no fashion sense who drop material out side the range of the course for brownie points
>interesting in class discussion and analysis
>shitty papers that arent fun to write
>>7976922
Wow, advice from a 14 year old who has no clue what he's talking about.
>>7976904
You get two good years with philosophy. After that you'll realize it's a waste.
>>7976922
Im pretty intelligent, not incredibly so but I doubt you need to be some kind of prodigy to major in philosophy.
My school isn't an Ivy but has one of the top 3 philosophy programs in the country, and constantly ranked among the top 5 in the world, which is why Im so seriously considering it.
As for my future, I'm planning on med school if all goes well, so I don't care what kind of job I can get with my undergrad degree.
>>7976904
If your having problems with your casual philosophy reading a class might do good. Honestly i think there's more nuance to be had in dank meta-ironic memes.
>>7976958
Wouldn't biology be more useful for that?
I will say that the one thing I noticed in all the philosophy courses I took, was that the students were super defensive of their major, like they were all consciously or not cognizant of the massive error they had made.
>>7976972
all the biology I need to know for the MCAT ive learned in AP bio this year
not to mention there are pre req science courses I need to take anyway to qualify for med school
>>7976980
The age of masochist philosophy. Everybody just wants to hear those magic words. "I dont get it".
>>7976984
>Talking about being pre med while in high school
Dont be this guy
>>7977017
Ive known i wanted to do that since sophomore year
whats wrong with having a plan ahead of time?
>>7976904
I'm (hopefully) about to graduate as a philosophy major and I've been really struggling at the upper level courses. If you absolutely love reading tons of philosophy, or you have no other possible interests then it's the right choice for you.
For me, I would go back in major in history so I wouldn't have had to suffer this much. But that's my experience, I'm a little regretful and am currently struggling to come up with a paper thesis for a French feminist thinker. Your mileage may very.
Also different philosophy departments teach different philosophers. Mine is focused on continental but yours might be differently mixed.
>>7977027
Basically bc talking about it without ever experiencing the actual nature of the work, sort of lends itself to an air of arrogance
also what uni senpai
>>7977034
>paper thesis for a French feminist thinker
You're not studying philosophy. You've been conned.
>>7977027
Nothing, medicine is the most noble profession imo. You just sound like a college confidential douchebag. Dont talk like you know about shit when you havent even sniffed the asshole of an orgo chem class, it's off putting and not cute.
>>7977036
Rutgers
Not the most prestigious school, but its cheap and, like I said, they have a world class philosophy program.
>>7977036
not even that guy, but thats a pretty shit and uninformed assumption. i doubt hes one of those "i really want to help people(:" faggots
>>7977065
No no dude, that was my point, the problem is the ambiguity of whether or not he is one of those cancerous scum, even if he probably isn't doesnt matter bc ppl jump to conclusions.
>>7976958
>My school isn't an Ivy but has one of the top 3 philosophy programs in the country
Which country?
>>7977075
America
>>7976922
Don't listen to this guy.
Here's the dig on philosophy: Unless you are going to become a professional philosopher (who are the opposite of philosophers and usually miserable excuses of human beings created by the dicksucking and academic mental masturbation which is required for obtaining a professorship in most phil departments) philosophy is a degree which begs yet more education.
I did a triple major in Polsci/philosophy/econ in undergrad with a minor in Spanish and I'm taking it into an MPA. Most people took their PPE education into Law or sometimes medicine. From my experience at WWU:
Professors: Polsci > Econ > Philosophy
Students/peers: Phil > Econ > Polsci
General enjoyment of courses: Phil > Polsci > Econ
Intellectual rigor of course material: Phil > Econ > Polsci
Usefulness of courses in my career: Polsci > Econ > Phil
Usefulness of courses in me getting laid: Philosophy > Polsci > Econ
>>7977278
>Usefulness of courses in me getting laid:
Really?
>>7977278
how to get laid with philosophy chicks?
>>7977320
If this is not a serious consideration when selecting a major you're doing it wrong kid.
>>7977337
Maybe it's because the culture of my country is different from yours but I can't quite figure out how formal logic, dialectics or phenomenology will help me get laid.
>>7977330
Don't go after philosophy women, they're fucking stupid-smart. They're dumb in that they generally lack meaningful insights but smart in that they are much more studious than men when it comes to having a vigorously highlighted version of the text available at all times. They are amazing at forcing a free spirit back into his box. There were 3 different girls who I swear to god, decided their duty in life was to nitpick literally everything I said in class. I've learned that one thing is certainly true in the battle of the sexes: women are more detail oriented and men are more big picture.
Most of the girls I fucked were in language/elective classes, Journalism and Education majors are square peg in round hole stupid so if you're just going for numbers they're your targets. Most of the intelligent women in colleges can be found in high level econ and history courses at least from my experience.
I ended up marrying a girl I met in an intro-level political science class. She's all I want in a woman, cutting, cruel and sensuous as well. Everything my mother was, and everything she wasn't all in one.
>>7976958
Why do you want to go into debticine?
Freshman student here
>is it hard?
Decently, much harder than my Biology major. I have a minimum of 5-6 pages of short esays a week between my three classes, with term papers throughout.
>is it fun?
Extremely. My Ancient Philosophy class is basically Plato and Aristotle comedy hour. The four PHI classes Ive taken so far have been very rewarding, I learn so much in each compared to any others. Either Logic or Ancient have been my favorites.
>Interesting
Absolutely. Like I said, these are my most stimulating classes. Everything I learn in other classes I can always relate to what I learn in philosophy.
>Should I major in it?
I definitely recommend it. My primary goal in college is to learn, and im happy with how much progress I've been making already. Dont worry about naysayers - philosophy can lead to a lot of jobs or into medical or law school. It might be good to double major with it as well.
>>7977049
Rutgers is a Top-3 philosophy program globally, so you are right about that. I know a lot of people doing/have done PHDs there, and also a few undergrads. The faculty is excellent - do some research before selecting classes, though.
>>7977382
>much harder than my Biology major
youre a double major then?
Bio & Philosophy is what I wanna do too
Do you think its an overwhelming amount of work?
>>7977382
>stimulating
Why does OP want to go into medicine? If you like wasting your life, I guess it's the perfect profession.
>>7977386
>do some research before selecting classes, though.
Ive been trying too but its sort of hard to find info on it online
Ill try to talk to alumni though.
Do you have any idea where I can research which professors are better and which classes are worth taking?
>>7977368
You sound like a well-rounded individual in his late 30s, what are you doing here? It's almost uncanny.
>>7977409
>wasting my life
lol..
if you consider working 4 days a week doing something I love and making a disgusting amount of money, leaving me to do anything and everything I want in my abundant free time to be a waste of my life, then thats on you.
>>7977382
If you do philosophy, you'll end up like this nerd.
>>7977409
>not making huge bucks working as an ER doc in a non-profit hospital doing 36 hours a week shift work and taking advantage of every IBR program, while still saving lives and getting to fuck with psychs and addicts.
Its like you dont like frontloading your schedule and spending all the money you dont save in a ski chalet reading books by a fire
>>7977426
>not knowing what hes getting into
Do you know any premed or med students or real doctors?
>>7977440
>>not knowing what hes getting into
My family and family-friends are all types of doctors. I know some med students as well.
The fact of the matter is, most specialties are chill. Yes, anesthesiologists and many other doctors can get calls in the middle of the night and hold a patients life in their hands everyday, but not every doctor's job is like that. And don't get me started on Dentistry, which is an option for me at this point as well.
Of course med school and premed is brutal. Thats not what Im getting at though.
>>7977426
>>7977432
Sounds like the most loaded and false representation of what a doctor does and how many hours he works that I've ever read.
BTFO. Suicide watch confirmed. Hope you don't end up in the psych ward. LoL
>>7977454
>med school and premed is brutal
Residency is brutal, med school is a joke except for USMLE studying and premed is just college.
>>7977463
>Sounds like the most loaded and false representation of what a doctor does and how many hours he works that I've ever read.
http://www.edphysician.com/AlabamaFJ.html
Literally clicked on the first job on this recruiting site, and the hours are exactly what i said. You have no idea what you are talking about. Plus alabama is paying ~250 an hour right now. Thats 415 a year before taxes
>>7977454
Fair enough, its easier said than done though. My family also has a few doctors, none of them have chill lives though. Maybe biased idk
>>7977473
Plus a couple docs I know are "burnt out" so they cut down to 9 12 hour shifts a month @215 an hour.
>>7977473
>250 an hour right now. Thats 415 a year
What the fuck..
This is for a physician? I had no idea they made nearly this much.
If I want to keep living in the northeast, can I expect to make this much here too?
>>7977473
>http://www.edphysician.com/AlabamaFJ.html
Congratulations, you just showed us that you know how to cherrypick!
>>7977397
...it can be. Im doing 20 credits next semester. Balancing Chem with Philosophy can be brutal. Id really recommend it (especially if youre into bioethics or my dream field environmental ethics), but yeah preapre for some shit. Im going to have to take summer classes for sure.
>>7977478
>My family also has a few doctors, none of them have chill lives though.
Well yeah, It completely depends on what you do. Nobody is arguing that ER docs or Neurosurgeons or a litany of other specialties for that matter have relaxed lifestyles. Some people are willing to give up that work life balance to practice something theyre passionate about though, and thats admirable.
>>7977491
>Congratulations, you just showed us that you know how to cherrypick!
http://www.edphysician.com/state-process.asp?State=New+Hampshire
k bro, theres all the jobs. they are all 12 12 hour shifts a month
heres the medscape physician compensation report
http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2016/public/overview
and remember the lower numbers are skewed by LA and NYC and shit because you get payed way more to work in the boonies
linguistics major here with a minor in literature
what kinda jobs can i get?
>>7977431
>myanmanese idol flat
>bullying
Hey now
>>7977414
Any idea what areas of philosophy you want to focus on? I can go through each faculty member one by one if you want.
>>7977516
>ER docs is a lifestyle job, you dont have call
Learn something new everyday
>>7977525
Unfortunately Im pretty ignorant to philosophy. Always been a big reader since I was kid, English lit mostly, but hardly any background in philosophy.
From what I've heard about Wittgenstein from DFW, philosophy of language seems pretty interesting.
Anyway, hopefully once I take the into course next year Ill have a better idea. Any way i can contact you then?
>>7976959
>>7977510
If it's not too late, you should change majors.
>>7977539
i'm considering going to law school after this or double minoring in computer science too. I hear a lot of linguistics people also work in compsci fields
>>7976944
no you
>>7977425
mid twenties, actually. I mostly enjoy shitposting about dead German guys. Wife's not big into philosophy and I'm in an MPA which is mostly sociology/anthropology/polsci people, very few people who went deeper than phil 101 so I have very few people to talk about it with.
I've tried to get her to read shit and told her she'd look really smart to her students if she could namedrop some dead Greeks and Germans and she said she didn't give a fuck what any of the undergraduate cretins she was forced to endure thought of anything, much less her. That's why I love her. She did enjoy a collection of Schoppy essays I had until she started getting into what he thought about women. I told her Nietzsche was female-friendly philosophy when she got butthurt over that, still no response on that though she said she was going to read some.
>>7977532
Here are some people I'm familiar with and recommend:
Jerry Fodor - one of the top 3 philosophers of mind; HUGE in cognitive science
Alvin Goldman - one of the top 5 epistemologists; also, cognitive science
Ernest Sosa - among top 5 epistemologists; very well-connected guy - runs Noûs and Philosophy and Phenomenological Research.
Ted Sider - one of the top 5 metaphysicians
Jonathan Schaffer - also among the top 5 metaphysicians
Stephen Stich - big in cognitive science and philosophy of mind
Ernie Lepore - philosophy of language and cognitive science (works with Fodor)
Brian McLaughlin - philosophy of mind
Barry Loewer - philosophy of science; philosophy of mind
David Z. Albert - one of the top 3 philosophers of physics (visiting faculty)
Jill North - philosophy of physics;
Anthony Gillies - philosophy of language
Post on the board if you still have questions next year (or sooner).
>>7977606
Thanks a lot for that man. Ive screenshotted the post for future reference.
University education's primary purpose is a degree, which tells employers you aren't, in fact, completely retarded like they are safe to assume.
If you love to read philosophy, pursue a degree in STEM so that you have more time and money to read philosophy with.
I would highly recommend it. It really is the most patrician, fulfilling, and interesting major it is. Sadly you won't get work in the philosophy factory so do what I did and double major in a meme STEM field. I chose computer science. Analytic philosophy and computer science complement each other perfectly.
>>7977630
*major there is baka
>>7977625
Im planning on med school.
>>7977630
I wish I could double major in comp sci, just in case my med school plans fall through, god forbid.
Unfortunately Im taking AP comp sci this year and Im getting C's every marking period, and failing some open ended exams she's given us, lol. Idk, Im just not good at it. Its a shame, really. I wish I was.
>>7977587
She's right.
>>7977368
>Education majors are square peg in round hole stupid
Im dying here
Can confirm
>>7977532
>philosophy of language
Just fyi from a philosophy grad student elsewhere. Rutgers has probably the best dept for philosophy of language in the world, but it's mostly technical logicy/linguistics philosophy of language. If you think you might be into that, I'd recommend taking some logic and linguistics classes (esp. syntax and semantics), and some general intro philosophy, then after that whatever advanced philosophy of language classes you can (see if you can take graduate courses, for example). There should be plenty of options. Look for things taught by Lepore, Camp, King, Gillies, Egan, and possibly Schaffer or Sider.
>>7977278
Can u tell me how u balanced the triple major. What ur work/life balance is like? Im thinking of doing a philosophy, physics, and music triple major but everyone is like "wooo dude your gonna get burnt out and u should focus on one thing at a time". Do u mind lending me ur insight sempai?
>>7977676
Thanks for the information, man.
Ill heed your advice.
>>7977690
Im prepared for the hate guys but i still wanna know what its like a sempai.
>>7977647
I'm not good at it either. I'm much better at philosophy. But I will still graduate with a mediocre GPA and a CS major on my degree from one of the best schools in my country (McGill in LEAF land).
If you're interested in med school. however, I wouldn't recommend it. Don't sacrifice your GPA.
>>7976984
Hi third year premed student here.
this >all the biology I need to know for the MCAT ive learned in AP bio this year
is utter bullshit and you will still have to take Bio 1 and 2.
>>7976924
>state university
>>7977991
That was largely an exaggeration.
>you will still have to take Bio 1 and 2.
I know, and all the Bio I actually have to know will be in any prereqs I have to take. I don't see a point in majoring in Biology other than as a safety cushion if I don't get into Med School. But I can think of more useful majors for that.
>>7977690
My school offered a PPE program so it was naturally pretty easy to manage because a lot of the coursework overlapped, the program let you count credits from a class towards multiple degrees as long as you were in a hybrid major program and the classes were accepted in both majors as within the major (for example, international political economy, the philosophy of economics, a lot of political philosophy classes), so the true workload was like 1.5 majors instead of 3.
If you can't stack classes like that, it might fuck you up, especially if you're going into 3 majors with different prerequisite courses. Your combination is weird and probably not worth doing, cut one of them. Keep in mind that increasingly undergraduate degrees are worthless (do not buy into the STEM = meal ticket meme, it's absolutely untrue) and unless you get connections and/or get lucky you will likely end up in graduate school.
There's also the issue of paying for this kind of education. Since I was overlapping classes it didn't cost me much more than a single major's tuition. If you're going into 3 unrelated fields you are probably going to be getting raped by tuition unless you have a lot of scholarships, and working to maintain those while doing a triple major is likely to be a pain in the ass. Ask yourself, are you actually getting your money's worth in terms of
1. Is this coursework going to contribute to your growth as a person in a way that cannot be accomplished as effectively outside of the framework of said course?
2. Is this degree actually going to make your resume more attractive and will it provide you with skills that will increase your salary?
You need to answer at least one of those in the affirmative to go forward with an education. For example, I wanted to make it a quadruple major and include History in the mix but found that it was just not going to be worth it by any metric. History lectures are all over youtube for free. I pursued that education independently, and of course a history degree adds nothing on top of my other 3 in terms of opportunities. Instead I saved my money and spent it on an MPA which is helping me enter a tough job market. I have a couple of opportunities lined up with starting salaries ranging from $50-60k.
>Not double majoring and combining Philosophy with something else
>Not double majoring in college in general
Muh wasting $60,000 dollaroos a year.
Also, would recommend philo at Fordham, it's been a good experience so far.
I started out a philosophy student. Switched to classics after sophomore year. Continentals and analytics both seemed dumb. Am going to grad school to translate dank meme magic texts. Can't wait.
Also, can confirm. Philosophy pulls mad bitches. Bitches be trippin'.
>>7978057
>Fordham
>>7976904
Rutgers or NYU?
>>7978057
>$60,000
land of the free
>>7976904
Try St John's College in either Annapolis MD or Santa Fe NM
I was thinking about a philosophy master's after getting my computer science BS and marine tech BS. I plan to be a seaman philosopher with computer science as backup.
>>7977620
*screenshooted
>>7978070
They're both great. If you don't have a big wallet, go for Rutgers. If you have the cash and/or it isn't going to be utterly crippling (which it is for a lot of people), NYU.
>>7977647
I'm starting residency in a couple of months. Here is some advice about getting into med school:
there are basically only two things that are important to get into med school: GPA and MCAT.
You need at least a 3.8 GPA to get into med school. That means you should ask the philosophy, biology etc. university major what is the average GPA and how feasible is it to reach your goal. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. YOU CAN RETAKE THE MCAT A SECOND TIME BUT YOUR GPA IS ETCHED ON YOUR FOREHEAD FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.
I'm not sure what the classes you have to take to fullfill your premed requirements to apply to med school, but you should look into that. How well you do on the MCAT is really just how well you study for the MCAT. Just like the chemistry, organic chemistry, genetics, biology courses. It's essentially natural selection for the people who have the willpower and concentration to study for multiple months at a time and retain everything for a single test.
Also don't listen to the anons tell you not to talk about premed. You need to go hard ASAP. The people who failed are the ones who flippantly mention that they are premeds, take a chemistry and biology class, get B's or C's in both, and then quit.
>>7978088
Im worried about not doing well in Orgo, the teacher at Rutgers is notorious for being really tough
If Im dedicated enough to study everyday for it you think I can pull a decent grade, or is it mostly natural ability for that kind of stuff? ( I may or may not have the natural ability, but considering how many people complain about Orgo its safer to assume I don't.)
>>7978053
you should really stop jacking yourself off with terms like "triple major" and "quadruple major." Everybody knows PPE is easy shit. You only have to focus on one of the areas, the other two are like 4 semesters of mid-level courses.
Yeah I doubled in Ivy. Was much easier than English. It's a pretty straight-forward major
>>7977587
>reading schopenhauer
it's like you're not even trying. schopenhauer is philosophy on easy mode + r/theredpill
>>7978041
Don't worry, anon. You've got the right idea. Biology is a strangely impractical major to undertake.
>>7978199
butthurt liberal detected
>>7978233
thanks for the reassurance anon
its always appreciated <3
>>7978087
Lit student with a full ride here.
1) Should I do a double major with philosophy? NYU's #1 in the English-speaking world apparently. Feel I should take advantage of that, considering I'm already interested in phil.
2) Anyone in law school? I'm between that, grad school, or an MFA. The MFA would be more for the connections than actually writing and I show promise, I've been told. Just trying to capitalize on my ability to write in a way that's fulfilling.
inb4 major in something else
>>7978053
Thank you anon.
>>7978634
Idk about English
Id definitely strongly consider a philosophy major. You have the oppurtunity to learn from some of the worlds greatest minds.
>>7978642
Not English. Comparative Literature, which is another top department, oriented more toward continental philosophy however.
>>7977993
Go Ivy, go State, or go home.
>Implying there is anything wrong with UNH, Rutgers, UVM
>>7978752
There's a lot wrong with those state schools.
They're full of state school students.
>>7978752
>implying there weren't top tier colleges outside the Ivy League, such as Caltech, Stanford, MIT, UChicago, etc.
>>7976904
Slightly offtopic: Can I reach the knowledge of a philosophy major without going to University?
>>7979697
Compared to a philosophy student who applies himself in school, it'll just take you way longer and you'll run down a lot of stupid alleys due to a lack of guidance.
>>7979697
yes, of course
>>7979697
Only if you have a lot of discipline and free time
>>7977368
just learn dialectics and you can never actually be countered by any interpretative argument
>>7979697
See >>7979774
And if you do, look around for syllabi and open online courses. There are plenty of good ones.
Also, don't just read philosophy, but try to write. Find some argument that interests you, try to write it out as explicitly as you can, and try to see where it is best challenged. Or defend some premise of it that the author doesn't do a good enough job defending. Eventually start trying to come up with your own interesting arguments.
Perhaps most importantly, have someone to argue with and to criticize the content of your writing.
>>7979697
No, you really can't. Philosophy is an interactive activity.
Hey I was a philosophy major, would love to share my story. I was a smart student in high school, got mostly Bs and Cs but that's because I didn't really care. I was into Philosophy from an early age (I read mostly Nietzsche and Plato) and shocked my teachers daily with my insights. I applied and got into Plymouth State University in New Hampshire, mainly because philosophy and its practice requires great natural beauty. I did ok in college, and maintained a solid 2.5 GPA. Most of the other students were way below me but that's ok (>>7976924
is on point with descriptions of my classmates), I pretty much led the class discussions and made sure to raise my hand on every query so I could really blow the teacher away.
I maintained a 3.2 GPA in my major so I was inducted into Phi Sigma Tau, which is a moment of pride for me and my mom. After I finished college I moved back to my moms house to plan my next moves. Typically, a lot of employers are a little nervous about the intellectual capabilities of philosophy majors, so I was planning for about 5 years. At that point my mom threw me out, so I borrowed some money from her to open a crossfit gym with a buddy of mine. But we couldn't make second months rent so I found myself on some friends couches. The worst was when I started being a gay prostitute on backpage to make ends meet, and I sold a little heroin for a friend too. This really all added to my philosophical outlook, but it wasn't very fun (I am straight). I luckily picked up a girl around this time, she was a really fat nurse who is pretty desperate but loves me all the same. I don't love her (thats a spook) but she doesnt ask me to work so I am able to sit around, read, and think all day. I sometimes get a job, but I cannot handle the idea of not being the master of my own destiny.
>>7980187
Pretty typical philosophy major right here
>philosophy "majors"
>thinking
>>7980187
Hey I was also a philosophy major. I was really active in HS, mostly in the magic and anime club as well as in student council and diversity club (I am hispanic/native american). I got straight As in college prep courses (honors kids are a bunch of faggots). I knew as soon as I graduated that I wanted to be a lawyer, so I went to Stonehill College in SE mass and double majored in Pre-Law and Philosophy (so that I would kill the LSAT). Most of the kids in the philosophy courses were really on the level and I had a lot of fun. I didn't get alot of girls (fuckin chads amirite) but I made a lot of friends and took part in every club I could find, mainly for extracurriculars. I only got a 149 on my LSAT tho, but everyone knows standardized tests are not an indicator of future success or intelligence. And guess what, I got into Law School anyways: Suffolk University. It was awesome. I didnt do great in law school (it was tough!) but I graduated. Unfortunately only the fuckers on law review got placed at big firms, so I had to really push myself. I ended up doing document review for an insurance company on contract, which almost covers the insurance payments for my 380k in student loans. But thats ok...I'm opening up my own practice doing personal injury.
>>7980259
>insurance payments
interest payments sorry
>>7977368
you're a faggot
How's the philosophy department at Berkeley?
>>7980342
Ranked about #10 in the country.
>>7980342
I'm thinking of going there as well with a double major in philosophy and math. I heard that philosophy has a heavy analytic bias there.
>>7977993
>graduate with good gpa from breddy gud state school
>get into top-tier grad program at ivy league school
memers pls
>>7980416
> or just get into Ivy League/equivalent school in the first place and a land top flight job
> grad school is optional
>>7977361
It helps you rationalize your desire for pussy which may lead you to do very stupid things, thereby keeping you from regretting all those mornings after quite so much and helping to maintain a healthy mental state. This will allow you to keep control of your facilities and tamp down your self-loathing while you feign emotional trauma and asshole tendencies so you can get more pussy.
>>7977278
school is dumb why you go to school
>>7976904
I made that mistake but switched to CS when i realized everyone else was just a pseudo-intellectual self-righteous marxist.
>>7980808
did you have background in CS before college?
idk if I should do a CS major
I really want to but I almost failed AP CS in High School this year
>>7980808
You must have gone to a shit school.
>>7980808
What school?
>>7976904
As far as I've experienced it is the the discipline that gives the most rewarding arts degree for critical people who like to question everything and don't do well with unjustified dogma. But it also has such a wide reach in subject matter that it is much more interesting than stem courses. It is also the place to go if you are interested in not just doing Science or Math but actually understanding what is going on at the deeper level that makes Science and Math work. A PHD student at my university actually did his undergrad as a specific philosophy and theoretical physics degree that was offered there, since the two disciplines are so close to one another. He is doing his PHD in Philosophy though, because he found that Philosophy gives him more answers about the world than physics, but his work is bound up with Scientific practice anyways.
What is nice is that you can get a C with minimum effort, though you have to be genuinely intelligent to get an A. The material is always engaging, and the professors are usually very smart and rigorous but also extremely charitable, relaxed, and helpfull.
Philosophy majors tend to
A. Score the highest on standardized exams used for law school and other higher education out of any arts degree, and ourperform most stem field people.
B. Out earn other arts degrees.
C. Tend to have general reasoning skills that make them valuable to an employer ( but you have to be able to demonstrate this to them, they won't just assume it because of the degree).
Finally if you realize that you do love Philosophy and are good at it you can do what I am doing and move past your undergrad. I will make more money as a Graduate student/ Teacher's assistant than I payed as an undergrad, and I managed to do it without any student loans ( I don't live in the US where that is possible for non-rich people).
At the very least take a few classes, if you decide that you aren't into it you can always change majors and use your PHIL courses as your options.
>>7978057
Holy shit. 60000 a year? As someone from outside the USA this just sounds wrong.
>>7978122
STEM here and did Orgo. A lot of people talk about STEM subjects like they're some kind of Hydra. These people just have no work ethic. You don't need to be a natural or even be interested in the subject to pass any undergrad course. If you'll truly study everyday you should do fine.
>>7976904
One of the most useless courses there is
History, Philosophy, and Fine Art are the trifecta of unnecessary courses.
Multimedia Art is debatable though
>>7980960
Yeah my tuition was under 6000 a year ( and yes I go to an actual university that is decent, not just a comunnity college or something like that). The US is fucking crazy.
>>7980823
cs is piss easy m8. its math for retarded people
>>7976904
I'm a philosophy major. I've had two shit professors and one great one. The thing about philosophy is it makes everyone feel comfortable talking about whatever the fuck they want to talk about, especially professors. The papers are fun though
philosophy in my university atleast has been pretty shitty. There's like a sect of neo-tomists that have taken over the department spending most of their time spewing stupid metaphysics from Aristotle and Aquinas, i've had an introductory course to logic that only touched upon aristotelian logic and some other stupid shit courses that haven't really taught me much.
The classes are pretty easy and I as a lazy nihilisitic fuck can pretty much get by if i study 1 or 2 days before exams (that are usually very far in between.)
On the bright side, if you're into autodidactic learning then it gives you the shot to study more by yourself and you get the stupid degree needed to get a job.
That's my take on it: go through the motions pretending to show interest, pass courses, and get the stupid certificate that says you know shit.
>>7981417
Sounds like you go to an absolutely horrifically bad university. Maybe a community college?
>>7981430
some decent schools just have bad programs in certain fields
>>7981417
>an introductory course to logic that only touched upon aristotelian logic
WTF? Are you sure you are actually studying at a university, and not taking a Scientology workshop or something?
>>7981430
Nah, I just live in an underdeveloped country, and it's actually the second best university for philosophy and costs quiet a bit (500 dolars per month.) The teachers are usually not that bad (aside from the courses infested with philosophy from the middle ages), it's just that we have a private system that makes it so that having an easy curriculumn ends up attracting more students than a tough one.
I'd say that if teachers were told to give us four times as much to read and explained twice as quickly (taking less questions, talking less about unrelated shit, like unrelated philosophers or stupid annectodes from their lifes) it would be fairly challenging. As it stands it really isn't.
It's disgusting living in CT where the only decent schools are the $40k+ circle jerk schools
>>7981417
Well Aristotelian logic is technically all correct, it is just really incomplete. I would expect them to teach you Fregean logic - that is the standard in my university.
What university is this though ? I would love a department taken over by Neo-Thomists. Are they Analytic-Thomists like Anscombe and Geach ? If they are followers of Gilson and some of the 20th century continental schools instead then you would be right to be irritated by them though. But Analytic-Thomism is legit.
>>7977368
>Most of the intelligent women in colleges can be found in high level econ and history courses
so true
so right now my majors are Creative Writing/Ecology.
I hate my classes for Ecology. I am interested in it as a subject but studying it is incredibly bland.
If I change my majors to Creative Writing/Philosophy will I be a horrible faggot? Keeping in mind I'm paying $4,000 a year to go to a $50,000/year private university thanks to financial aid with a good Creative Writing and Philosophy program.
>tfw could double Major in Marketing/English but I'm quickly getting sick of school
>>7977533
>>7981665
Unless its a hard science your a faggot
>>7980875
>he found that Philosophy gives him more answers about the world than physics
Unless he's talking about philosophy of science, this sounds implausible.
>>7977587
Your wife sounds quite funny
>>7981697
>nihilism is a field
>>7981697
Hard science won't get you a job besides a lab rat or highschool teacher. I really don't get this STEM meme, all of them seems useless to me besides CS and engineering. I would kill myself if I was studying psychis/chemistry/geology/biology/math only to get a shitty lab job. Don't major in STEM unless you are doing engineering or maybe CS if coding and programming is your thing.
So, /lit/ how stupid will I be for doing a double in literature and philosophy?
I know the usual combination of you really want to study philosophy is with something practical - law or economics - but I feel like majoring in philosophy without enough knowledge of literature will be problematic in the future (I really, really want to stay in the field. Not just take my degree and find any job).
>>7982008
What? You want to stay in what field?
Philosophy and literature have zero overlap. Unlike philosophy and computer science, linguistics, etc.
Also, majoring in Lit will only damage your brain. The field went full-SJW a long time ago, and is now filled to the brim with irrational dumbfucks. Read literature in your leisure time.
>>7982021
How can you be wrong so often in so few words
>>7982027
Unlike you, I actually know what the fuck I'm talking about.
>>7976904
Comsci/Phil double major here. Would recommend compsci major with minor in Phil. Focus on logic and philosophy of language papers -- and ethics if you have room. The two subjects tie in quite nicely in some respects.
>>7982021
Philosophy. I want to keep studying after my bachelor's (don't know how's a second degree called in america/europe, sorry...). I don't know, for some reason it feels wrong to me to know philosophy without a clue about stuff like history, literature. History seems easy to learn by yourself, literature not so much.
If it's actually all about critical theory now i'll give up on it I guess.
>>7982027
If you can't explain why he's wrong just fuck off...
>>7982075
Definitely.
I was a math & philosophy double major. The fields are very complementary. There was quite a bit of overlap in logic courses, etc.
>>7982079
>don't know how's a second degree called in america/europe
Wait, where are you going to university? Somewhere in Asia?
>>7982088
Egypt
>>7982021
>Philosophy and literature have zero overlap
what is aesthetics
what is philosophy of language
have you read some good literary criticism? bakunin, lukács?
>>7982086
How was the course load anon? I'm thinking of doing the same thing.
>>7976904
Majored in neuroscience and philosophy and now I'm in med school. I'm really glad I did it. The major taught me to think critically better than any of my science courses, gave me a broader perspective on science as a whole, helped improve my writing, and gave me the chance to have deep discussions with lots of interesting people.The classes honestly changed how I view the world and made me who I am today. More pragmatically, they also played well in my med school applications.
The material can be difficult if you really want to understand it rather than just get by, like it was really easy to pass but could be hard to get an A. In general I found the classes easier than most of my premed ones. Like you might expect, it's a lot of reading with about three long papers per class, but if you care about the material the papers are actually pretty fun.
You can definitely read on your own and learn the same material, but I found it helpful to have a professor as a guide for the complicated stuff and to critique my ideas. Just be prepared for a fair amount of bullshit. The classes are subjective and can totally vary based on the opinions of the professor and the program. About half of the other students were thoughtful people with interesting things to say, and the other half were "woah dude what if we don't exist" stoners and kids who had to prove how smart they were in high school.
All that being said, you can't do much with just a philosophy bachelors. All my philosophy bros are doing med school, law school, or grad school, or are couch surfing starving artist types.
It's a great foundation for other things but make sure you know what you're getting into.
What's the best school for philosophy?
>>7983017
depends on what your interests are. generally US is NYU or Rutgers and UK is Oxbridge
>>7980684
>a land top flight job
>grad school is optional
confirmed nocollege
I bet you went into consulting and think that's a top flight job
>>7980960
price is the last barrier to entry, since even elite colleges (looking at you Yale) are accepting blacks and liberals by the truckload these days. unfortunately, the poorest of them also get full-rides
>>7983130
>yale
>elite
lol
>lol
>>7983142
shut up cuck
>not even dan
>>7983120
Consulting can be very lucrative, but I went into a different field in finance.
>>7977034
is it simone de beauvoir
>>7977083
source?
>>7976904
off topic, but i really love the story behind the original picture
the jester had just read a letter stating that Smolensk has been lost to the Russians and they are invading, but out of all the nobles he's the only one who's worried.
Truly a "wise fool"
>>7982689
The course load was fine. Also, it was good to alternate between doing proofs/problem sets and reading/writing papers. Doing one or the other exclusively can lead to burn out.
I don't want to start a new thread and I feel that it relates somewhat to this thread so here goes:
Please recommend me some books that discuss or has the issue of free will as its main theme. Non-novels preferred.
>>7983017
1) NYU
2) Rutgers
3) Oxford (UK)
4) Princeton
5) Michigan
>>7984260
Bratman, Michael (1999). _Faces of Intention: Selected Essays on Intention and Agency_. Cambridge University Press.
Bratman, Michael (1987). _Intention, Plans, and Practical Reason_. Center for the Study of Language and Information.
Davidson, Donald (1980). _Essays on Actions and Events_. Oxford University Press.
Dennett, Daniel C. (1984). _Elbow Room: The Varieties of Free Will Worth Wanting_. MIT Press.
Fischer, John Martin (1994). _The Metaphysics of Free Will: An Essay on Control_. Blackwell.
Fischer, John Martin & Ravizza, Mark (1998). _Responsibility and Control: A Theory of Moral Responsibility_. Cambridge University Press.
Frankfurt, Harry G. (1971). Freedom of the will and the concept of a person. _Journal of Philosophy_ 68 (1):5-20.
Frankfurt, Harry G. (1969). Alternate possibilities and moral responsibility. _Journal of Philosophy_ 66 (3):829-39.
Ginet, Carl (1990). _On Action_. Cambridge University Press.
Kane, Robert H. (1996). _The Significance of Free Will_. Oxford University Press.
Mele, Alfred R. (2006). _Free Will and Luck_. Oxford University Press.
Mele, Alfred R. (1995). _Autonomous Agents: From Self-Control to Autonomy_. Oxford University Press.
Nagel, Thomas (1986). _The View From Nowhere_. Oxford University Press.
O'Connor, Timothy (2000). _Persons and Causes: The Metaphysics of Free Will_. Oxford University Press.
Pereboom, Derk (2001). _Living Without Free Will_. Cambridge University Press.
Velleman, David (2000). _The Possibility of Practical Reason_. Oxford University Press.
Wallace, R. Jay (1996). _Responsibility and the Moral Sentiments_. Harvard University Press.
>>7984288
Thanks a million family, that's the exact type of list I want.
>>7984264
LMFAO WHAT A COLLOSAL WASTE OF MONEY AND 4 YEARS, THOSE SCHOOLS ARE SO RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE THAT EVEN THE MOST PRIVILEGED SHELTERED MILLENIAL BITCHES CAN BARELY AFFORD TO GO TO THEM
>being /lit/ means you have to be a philosophy or english major
I'm tired of this meme.CS major checking in
>>7984310
BEING ON LIT MEANS U READ, WHY WASTE ALL YOUR PARENTS MONEY GETTING A WORTHLESS DEGREE WHEN U CAN JUST READ?
>>7984310
lawmajor and postgrad here, I wish I did philosophy.
all the people I knew who I went to highschool with just play video games and fuck whores all day and still manage to pull a 2:1.I have no idea of what the actual ranking for the subject is but they all study in UCL if anybody cares.
>>7984310
>CS major
brainlet detected. math major checking in. i can do all your codemonkey problems in my sleep
>>7977587
Wollstonecraft friend. 1700s Platonist and first-wave feminist- long before intersectionality and Marxism turned it into the sham it is today.
Good family reading.
>>7978064
Jeal. I graduated with Econ (no jobs) but I picked up philosophy as a hobby soon after. I was thinking of trying my hand at a master's in philosophy, but I also think post-Existentialist philosophy is logic wanking.
How is classics working out for you? Do you have both greek and Latin?
>>7984751
>no jobs
That's because you went to the wrong college or did shit.
>>7980166
Sounds like you've got some experience with this. Did you do something similar?
>>7984766
No it's because economics only prepares you to analyze statistics and use rudimentary logic. You learn no practical skills in Economics, or at least I didn't
>>7984905
Sad to say this, but it's not about what you learn at all for a lot of jobs in finance. Most econ majors at my school all land good jobs in banking, asset management, or consulting. You probably didn't focus on getting a job in the first place. If you were truly at a college where banks and other firms recruited, you shouldn't have trouble finding a job.
I know not everyone in econ has finance ambitions, but if that was the case you should have supplemented your Econ degree with a different technical skill set.
>>7984920
True. Econ pairs well; the successful guys from the department either double majored and used the other major or went on to grad school.
At that point I still had the mistaken belief that everything would work out somehow and I didn't need to worry.
>>7984929
For fuck sakes, though don't go into grad school for philosophy if you're concerned about getting a job.
>>7984920
> actively encouraging people to join the dark side
>>7984934
Definitely not. I've worked for 3 years since undergrad and I'm confident that reading and writing texts for the rest of my life will make a much more fulfilling existence than my current work.
>>7984970
Then what? How will you support yourself after you get your shiny MA in Philosophy?
>>7984972
Ideally, I'd like to be a professor and researcher, but I can always go back to the work I'm doing now if need be.
>>7984982
>professor
Yeah, that won't happen without a PhD from a top program and even then your chances aren't good.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/128nK28AQlH_XJEzLQmKtzCGmOHRjE0KsWxk3Fui98lU/mobilebasic?pli=1
http://www.owl232.net/grad.htm
>>7978756
That's the only thing wrong. A lot of the faculty is great, but the average student is "C's get degrees"
>>7984989
Fuck, Hanti seems like such a bro. I want to be his Philosophy friend.
>If you feel depressed after reading this, go to do philosophy, do real philosophy, do more philosophy, and recall how much you love philosophy. I can assure that at least 95% of your PhD career will focus on doing philosophy, which is the fun part, and which is the reason why you want to get a job in philosophy. Only 5% or less of your PhD career will focus on doing something specifically for getting a job. Thank God. This is proof that God loves philosophers.
>>7984989
Your chances aren't good for anything in life though, except being able to work at Taco Bell.
You should make yourself as employable as possible through sustained effort at whatever you want to do so you can take advantage of anything that comes your way. I would happily teach in prisons
>>7985060
Prisons don't hire philosophers. Your argument could be said for professional sports. You obviously were lackadaisical with your undergraduate. You're basing your love for philosophy and viability for it to be your career on what exactly? Sounds like a case of "I want to escape my shitty life".
>>7985070
Yes, some have education programs for inmates involving philosophy. Those types of less-than-perfect gigs and unpaid apprenticeships seem to be the main avenues for building a resume.
Why do anything? I've been studying philosophy for over a year now by myself and I'm still enjoying it, I could see myself spending, and on days off do spend, 8+ hours a day with the material, what other criterion is there?
Some of you guys love playing the "bad decisions = too bad" meme; there's always a way if you're willing to work.
Very difficult major which doesnt get the respect it deserves. I would advise against people going into philosophy if they are not economically stable, however, i must say, i love the person it made me out to be.
>>7984775
No. I did my undergrad in philosophy (and had another major as well) at a state school with a top 20 dept and am now in grad school at a top 5 dept.
That said, I have learned a fair amount of philosophy on my own, some before I started taking philosophy classes, but mostly after. I think with a little guidance and a lot of time and dedication I could have had as much or more understanding of philosophy as your average philosophy major, without actually enrolling in classes. The major itself wasn't that demanding (I ended up basically doubling the requirements). The big stumbling block probably would have been getting myself to actually write papers, and trying to get feedback from people on them. And this is super important.
If you don't have anyone who you think you could get to read what you write and criticize your arguments (as opposed to just style or whatever), perhaps put it on pastebin and link to it from here? You'll probably get a lot of bullshit feedback, but some of it might be good, and it's probably better than nothing. But it really would be helpful if you have a friend or two interested in philosophy who you can talk about it with.
That should be enough to get to an undergrad level of understanding philosophy (which is nontrivial, and something to be proud of if you aren't in college). To get to something approaching a professional level, though, I think taking a lot of classes and writing a lot of papers to be critiqued by experts is a must (unless you're some kind of genius).
Some helpful resources here:
http://www.jimpryor.net/teaching/index.html
http://oyc.yale.edu/sites/default/files/philosophy-paper.pdf
is also good.
And you could do much worse than starting with Kagan's course on death: http://oyc.yale.edu/philosophy/phil-176
I am a postgrad in another field but I study philosophy.
I avoided philosophy itself as a major because it's very narrow and specialised. It was easier to do what I want to do elsewhere. But my PhD applications could just as easily have gone to Philosophy departments (almost did, actually) as Anthro, History, maybe even Sociology or PolSci departments.
Just throwing that out there. If you're interested in philosophy very broadly, and especially if you're not totally sure what you ultimately want to study, keep in mind that the study of philosophy does not necessarily equal any university department of philosophy.
