>>7912424
Lankhmar, New Sun, Elric of Melbourne, Conan and Name of the Wind edition
Recommendation Charts:
>Fantasy
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/3v2oXAY.jpg (embed)
>Sci-Fi
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/A96mTQX.jpg (embed)
General: http://i.imgur.com/r55ODlL.jpg (embed) / http://i.imgur.com/gNTrDmc.jpg (embed)
>Talk about whatever you want basically, I'll just talk about the 10 authors I usually do
>>7922825
Adding John C. Wright to solid sff list, he is a pretty decent author. He is fun and the writing itself is sufficient. Not sure if I'll continue the series, but the first novel is a good one. Lots of techno fantasy with a surprisingly well constructed plot.
>>7922825
Just finished To Green Angel Tower, what did you guys think about it? I enjoyed it for the most part, but the ending felt a little anti climatic. Tad Williams other stuff worth a read?
What SF/F authors can you guys name who are ideologically left-wing? There seem to be a lot more right-wingers or libertarians from what I can tell, but confirmed lefties I'm aware of are: Banks, Le Guin, Mieville, Moorcock, and Robinson. Anybody else?
>>7922857
He's a fedora-tipping christfag:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/John_C_Wright.jpg
And the "Rabid Puppies" dumbshits are obsessed with him.
>>7923384
I know, but his blog is not bad and the book is surprisingly well written.
>>7923369
The following are at least left-of-center:
Delany, Disch, Brunner, Butler, Haldeman, Farmer, Silverberg, Leiber, Keyes, Ellison.
>>7923404
Most are left wing generally speaking, as far as I know.
>>7922825
We /chaos/ now?
>>7923412
First Heretic was a fun novel.
plebs
I finished Second Foundation some time ago, and i'll be damned if it isn't my favorite sci-fi series so far, but i heard that the Foundation series take place in a continuity including previous Asimov's books, like I, Robot. Is there an order i should read them on?
>>7923369
M. John Harrison, Lucius Shepard
I'm reading through "the distant songs of earth" by Arthur C. Mofucken Clarke. I really enjoy how Clarke, throughout the novel, instead of speaking in hyperbole or polar choices. Describes humanity as this great and terrible society lost in the gray sided moral ideals searching for continuous definition of each other.
tfw you realise Endymion isn't a million miles away from Terminator.
Is there a bigger cuck in Sff than Achamian?
Is he the sorcerer king of cucks?
>>7923369
Dick was pretty left. His works contain lots of critiques of authority of both a statist and corporate nature.
>>7924065
him and Cnaiur got equally fucked over
But yea he is the cuck king
>>7924072
Sure, but after the amphetamine psychosis kicked in, he was all over the map. I.e., a bit less straightforward to classify in his later years.
>>7923384
Yeah, and Lovecraft said nigger, nobody should read him. Oh, and Brandon Sanderson did a blog post against gay marriage once, so we should avoid his books based wholly on that and not on their quality. Actually, we should only read N.K. Jemisin and K. Tempest Bradford. And Aliette de Bodard if we feel rebellious.
>>7923369
Eric Flint is a communist. No kidding. Scalzi and Rothfuss are both lefties, Kim Stanley Robinson is a left-anarchist. Cory Doctorow is somewhere way left, probably an anarcho-queer or something gayer, China Mieville was a red-diaper baby...
You know what? Check their publisher. If it isn't "Baen" or "Self-published" they are probably either lefties or unwilling to speak out about their right-wing views. That's part of the Puppy debacle, probably their strongest case, that for all the inclusion demanded by the modern Left they certainly don't want people with conservative or traditionalist politics included.
>>7922825
>not Anathem vs Blindsight edition
If those anons weren't memeing about Anathem being some of the best SFF of the new century, that would have been a neat debate.
>Do you prefer your SFF to be more Platonic Idealist or Materialist Nihilist?
>Tight, focused prose or sprawling world-building?
>Callow bright-eyed protagonist or world-weary with major issues?
>Life-affirming or consciousness-discouraging?
>>7924143
>>Do you prefer your SFF to be more Platonic Idealist or Materialist Nihilist?
Platonic Idealist
>>Tight, focused prose or sprawling world-building?
Tight Focused prose
>>Callow bright-eyed protagonist or world-weary with major issues?
Either or, both can go either way.
>>Life-affirming or consciousness-discouraging?
Life Affirming.
>>7923715
Publication order. The link between the two story lines is made in the Foundation prequels, which I found pretty meh.
>>7922857
If you don't like all three of the Golden Age books you should be wary of his other novels. He has more of a tendency to throw in twist after twist (like A.E. Van Vogt if you're familiar with him) which undermines plot coherency. Still, always fun.
His short story collections Awake in the Night Land and City Beyond Time I would recommend to anyone though.
>>7924131
I think its more to do with conservative authors usually writing trash desu senpai. Gene Wolfe is a conservative Catholic yet Le Guin and Mieville have both sung their praises for his work. And Heinlein, Tolkien and Lewis all remain super influential in the fandom despite their political views.
>>7924364
Tolkien had political views?
>>7924370
Maybe. They were very contradictory at times. Despite all the values in LOTR reflecting oldschool conservative and monarchist beliefs, he described himself as an anarchist in a letter once, and also saying he likes unconstitutional monarchy a sentence later. He also supported the Nationalists during the Spanish Civil War but that was only because he had heard stories of the communists slaughtering priests and nuns.
>>7923392
Sounds like you need some C. J. Cherryh in your life.
I'm almost done Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said, and have read:
>Do Androids Dreams of Electric Sheep?
>UBIK
>The Man In the High Castle
and
>A Scanner Darkly
What PKD should I read next?
>>7923823
>Also Andre Norton was a woman.
Is there anything of hers you'd like to specifically recommend? I have quite a few titles, but the ones I've read so far have just been sorta okay.
>>7924384
>he described himself as an anarchist in a letter once
It was in an inscribe-the-law-on-your-heart way, as in, it would be nice if everyone had the iron discipline necessary to live in an anarchy. How would they achieve this, in Tolkien's mind? Do you need three guesses?
>>7924364
Yeah, and Scalzi has three Hugos while Wolfe has zero.
>>7924364
To be fair, Wolfe was nominated at least three times for a Hugo. I think if they were really biased they'd refuse to nominate them whatsoever.
What happened to the Fantasy General chart? Why'd OP remove it?
>>7924695
The point is that you have to be Gene Wolfe to even get nominated. OSC got three Hugos, thirty years ago, and they keep pointing to that as evidence that they're not biased now. More damning evidence is how the Best Editor category keeps going to the same guy.
It's really, really hard to prove a conspiracy, and it's extra-hard when your movement's so disorganized that a longing for the Golden Age, protest of Tor meddling and slates, protest of left-wing bias, and hatred of dino revenge porn/gay soap operas all are cited as prime motivations. So the anti-Puppy side was able to pick whichever one fit their current argument best, and claim victim status, like they do. Of course, they kept falling back on the "they want to reduce diversity!" canard, which people seemed to believe even when the Puppies were actually diverse and the anti-Puppies were manifestly a bunch of white people. Waste of good argument fodder, that.
>>7924517
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
Is there a fantasy series where the dialogue is a clear step above the rest of other fantasy authors?
>>7924769
Mervyn Peake
>>7924769
Yes. We speak of him often.
>>7924769
Peake and Wolfe are on a high level.
Wolfe really shines in certain novels because it's bound to perspective do to get to his best dialogue you need to dig a bit.
Peake has a generally strong characterisation and prose, probably the best in sff.
who /bakker/ here? he is the best author in the genre
>>7924882
Best of the current generation, yes.
Looking forward to The Great Ordeal
why cant women write? i want to read to tier sff but every woman i tried was mediocre.le guinn,ancillary whatever,and so on. do yoy need test to be competent?
>>7922825
Why are two of the charts missing?
![M-John-Harrison-008[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VAY0sTT.jpg "M-John-Harrison-008[1].jpg")
>>7923806
>M. John Harrison
Is he the British Wolfe?
>>7924888
Not that I know ofMaybe you can be that guy :^)
>>7924769
Seconding Wolfe. Almost every character has a unique way of speaking that lets you identify them.
Hobb and GRRM are excellent as well, though in a much more realistic way. I know people here shit on Martin's prose, but he knows how to write dialogue.
>>7924925
His dialogue is fine, yeah.
Too bad he doesn't spice it up with a description or two.
>>7924884
Fuck off, we had enough great recs for your bait last thread. Based on your tastes, you just want epic fantasy and Gene 'the meme' Wolfe, which women tend not to write.
Accept that your taste just lines up with what men write, because authors like Le Guin, McMasters Bujold, Hobb, Atwood, and so on, are among the most highly regarded in SFF.
Some friend linked me a fantasy but didn't say the author
He used "half a hundred" a dozen times or so.
Who is it?
I want to know who to avoid
>>7924747
Will do, I own that fortunately.
>>7925016
wat
What's some more druggy SF? Specifically like A Scanner Darkly, with lots of cannabis use?
>>7925027
Barefoot in the Head
The Futurological Congress
>>7924205
>Is Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne any good?
Where do your tastes usually run? I certainly enjoyed the series. If 'special forces' in a fantasy context sounds like your thing then I'd give it a go.
>>7924370
Tolkien was a Catholic first and foremost, most of his views sprung from his Catholicism.
Though he was also a medievalist and had lived through WWI, which made him most likely despise the modern all powerful state.
>>7924769
Jack Vance
>>7924882
3 months until Dunyain fucking shits are removed
Get hyped
>>7923404
Isn't Ellison meant to be a neckbeard-tier muh-soggy-nist?
>>7925491
>tfw you kinda like Kayutas and Moengus
>>7922680
>It's like Naruto, but a novel.
ahhh.. you're an /a/utistic
>>7925501
You know who else kinda liked a Dunyain?
Akka and Cnauir. Do you really want to end up like them?
>>7924072
Modern leftism is as, or more statist, and interventionist as modern right wing.
It's a shell game, friendo.
>>7925519
Kayutas just wants to get shit done and Moengus dosent give a fuck either way, even he dislikes his famiyl
none of them are exactly out to take over holy wars and steal wives (Sorweel dont even try)
>>7924703
Because he is that Conan shill who doesn't like new things.
He is like your racist granpa who tries to disown you when you bring home an asian, black, latina, or indian gf/fiancee.
>>7924882
The Prince of Nothing became REALLY stagnant towards the end. Maybe it's just me, but I got really bored with all the grimdarkness going on. Cnair was based. Akka was super-cuck. Kellhus was the epitome of a fedora'ed mary sue.
It was a lot better than most of the other crap out there, but nothing really that special.
>>7925570
>implying akka didn't uncuck himself at the end of TTT
>>7924703
My mistake. Posted from phone.
>>7924871
>Peake
>SFF
Good evening, /lit/
I wanted to ask you if a sci-fi setting roughly based on the Borderlands Universe (with, of course, less silliness and memes) would please you or not.
It would be, of course, fairly soft sci-fi in a somehow post apocalyptic setting, but I don't plan to reuse the "Space Western" of Borderlands too much, I just like the aesthetic and the general feeling of the universe.
I'll confess that I'm a bit new here, but I don't think you can have serious discussion about it on /v/.
>>7925759
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is kind of like that, at least in terms of jaunting around the galaxy in a wild, wild west/rock'n'roll lifestyle kinda fashion.
>>7925757
He is considered a fantasy writer, is he not?
>>7925767
Yes, but is he?
I don't think we can have Pynchon and Peake at the same time.
>>7925764
Didn't saw the connections between the two.
H2G2 is perhaps less dark and with a less internally believable plot than Borderlands in my opinion.
In BL the main stories have a clear succession of events and you can immerse yourself in the world, I don't really feel the same connection with H2G2, the whole thing has no willing suspension of disbelief.
>>7925501
I love the Anasurimbors, they are all based maniacal geniuses. They are the best part of the 2nd trilogy so far.
>>7925759
I don't know, what kind of story do you want to tell? Are there any books with a similar aesthetic to Borderlands that would give us some idea of what it's like (I've never played it)?
>>7925774
I dunno, i definitely think that being able to manipulate abstract concepts like with the SEP field could lead to some interesting shit, actually.
The ending is kinda shit, tho, but then again, Adams wasn't working towards a clear end in the last two books.
>>7925794
Kinda ironic when you take into account that those were the only two actually written as books, instead of radio episodes.
>>7925773
Science fiction and fantasy is really just a general aesthetic, so I guess both could be considered to be a part of it.
>>7925789
Not really books.
Imagine Mad Max with memes and killers aliens, in SPACE, and megacorps instead of warlords.
The basic premise (of my would-be story) is that due to overextension and carelessness into space, humanity has been sent on its knee. It has lost a lot of its population. For many unlucky planets, comfort and technology are distant memories.
In the wreckage, private military contractors flourish, everyone of them with the same objective - seizing as much resources as possible for their own kind - masked under different excuses. For this company, it's about profits. For this warlord, it is his people's destiny to control this war zone.
The decaying Stellar Union, last caricature of a government the universe has, is trying, desperately, to hold its own on the ruins of Space, and has become of a parody of its once great ideals.
We will be following different lives into this universe. I am mostly thinking about the world at this moment.
The pitch might be a bit cringey, but that's because English is not my mother tongue. Please no bully
>>7925828
Sounds like you're looking for a very specific story that you can't be bothered to write yourself.
>>7925885
I'm going to write it myself, don't worry. Or at least I'll try.
>>7925525
Liberals aren't left wing you idiot.
>>7925926
Left/right division is based on the French parliament during the monarchy. Left wing was liberals and democrats (sitting on the king's left side), right wing was monarchists (sitting on king's right side).
>>7925570
How is Kellhus a mary sue?
Icarium is a Mary Sue
Any Brandon Sanderson fans out there?
>>7925996
Yes, I'm really looking forward to seeing how he ends the Song of Ice and Fire series.
>>7925947
Liberals were the left wing 200 years ago but now they're centrist.
>>7924143
>Do you prefer your SFF to be more Platonic Idealist or Materialist Nihilist?
Platonic all the way like myself
>Tight, focused prose or sprawling world-building?
Sprawling
>Callow bright-eyed protagonist or world-weary with major issues?
World-weary
>Life-affirming or consciousness-discouraging?
Life-affirming
>>7925570
your mind is too weak. If you can't read between the lines and appreciate the series,it's no wonder that you can't see the greatness.
The first trilogy is not perfect, Bakker manipulates tropes like a dunyain, the epic moments are there but there are also subtle sometimes. In my mind the third book in the trilogy is the best. I suggest you look at the first trilogy as a single book.
Read some philosophy and you will understand better what he wanted to create, without it the series is too much "grimdark", however it's not the authors fault that you can't appreciate it.
>>7925188
Could be cool. Might as well check it out. couldn't hurt
>>7924930
I wasn't it the last thread brah,Gene wolfe is cool to read a few times however I don't really like him.
It's not my fault womenz suck, my taste lines up with greatness. Le Guin,Hobb,Bujold ...I gave them a try. Fitz was pathethic, plot holes upon plot holes and the "feelings" just left a bad taste in my mouth. It was reddit tier...A little higher than Sanderson tier.
Women are simply not ambitious. Where's the 10 book epic with hundreds of named characters? Complex plot? Good prose?
It's not like I don't want to try, it would make me glad to read more cool books, however women have been meme tier so far...
>>7926109
>Where's the 10 book epic with hundreds of named characters?
>Good prose?
I wouldn't call Erikson's prose worth mentioning
>>7926109
I prefer not to be reminded that I share /lit/ with people like this.
>>7926109
>reddit tier
>meme tier
What does that mean?
>>7926096
Oh I've read plenty of philosophy. I understand it's based on the Crusades. I understand that Kellhus and the Dunyain are meant to represent an amalgamation of Buddhist thought melded with Machivellean politics and that Kellhus is essentially an Unbermensch. I would love to elaborate more, but essentially, while I would agree Bakker is above people like GURRM, Sanderson, Abercombie, et al, he's nowhere near the stature of people like Peake, Wolfe, Eddison or even Tolkien.
But please continue to tell me to read more philosophy.
>>7925971
He's a New Atheists wet dream. Manipulates people with his words alone, takes over an entire religion in order to advance his own ends, takes other men's lovers as his own (something a fedora will ever only dream of), views religion as only a means to an end, and ascribes to a totally selfish and self-serving philosophy.
>>7926128
That he is too dumb to write down some actual critique.
>>7926152
None of that makes him a mary sue.
Kellhus isn't some dude who is inexplicably skilful and intelligent and charismatic. He's fucking monstrous, he's like the result of a project to create a flesh AI which gains sentience during the circumfixion and becomes utterly incomprehensible afterwards.
>>7926109
Flannery O'Connor isn't fantasy, but she is brilliant
>>7926125
it has it's moments, you can't really have such a huge series with amazing prose constantly.
>>7926126
sorry
>>7926128
>>7926192
It means lowest common denominator trash. Reddit is known for that,because of the voting system it's impossible to actually say something smart ( in the bigger subs at least).
Meme tier is the same, it affects 4chan also, someone asks for a recommendation and some drones post the same 3-4 names over and over.
>>7926109
>Women are simply not ambitious. Where's the 10 book epic with hundreds of named characters? Complex plot? Good prose?
Muh C. J. Cherryh is working on book 19 in her Foreigner series.
>>7926138
well, elaborate, these things are interesting. I didn't say you where stupid, I said that more philosophy you know the better/more interesting the series will be. That was Bakkers whole plan, not only crate a new world,add some castles,knights and shit but do a Tolkien. Earwa has different linguistic influences, it has different physics and metaphysics, it has a long and complex history that actually matters to the characters.
All these things affect people, add in a very shitty past (especially recent past) and it's no wonder most characters are depressed and half mad.
>>7926252
I personally find the idea that 10 books and hundreds of characters goes for ambition kinda laughable.
>>7926152
>>7926194
yep, a mary sue is someone who has magical powers for no reason. The dunyain trained 2000 years for this shit. Bakker "fixes" the problem with OP characters by focusing on the world. Sure, Kellhus comes in kicking ass and taking names, however what really matters is how the world reacts to him, this is not some superhero story.
That's why in the second book you don't have his POV and he rarely appears. Mostly you "feel" him and his influence, at the height of his power he is like big brother.
>>7926280
No. I find good literature impressive. A 70 page novella by Wolfe or most of Le Guin's novels are more impressive than everything Erikson or some other similar author ever wrote. Scope doesn't mean anything really. Outside being entertaining or something like that.
>>7926290
>Outside being entertaining
So the most important thing? kek
There's a reason why Malazan is more well praised than Wolfe, the former isn't fucking boring.
>>7926296
>So the most important thing? kek
The pleb reveals himself.
>There's a reason why Malazan is more well praised than Wolfe, the former isn't fucking boring.
Wolfe is praised by people whose praise means something. For one he has themes he explores and very human characters and a scope of imagination Malazan doesn't even scrape.
>>7926305
>Wolfe is praised by people whose praise means something.
Such as yourself, I'm guessing.
>not reading for pleasure but for some arbitrary intelligent 2deep4u stuff
*tips trilby*
>>7926296
>Women fantasy writers are reddit/meme tier because lowest common denominator
>Erikson is better than Wolfe because lowest common denominator praises him more (often)
Achieving the same impact with novellas is much harder and requires much better writing.
Wolfe can do with 100 pages that takes 1000 with Erikson.
Besides the fact that most people don't know Wolfe.
Erikson is a mainstream fantasy author, Wolfe as of yet is not.
People who read Wolfe are likely to have explored the fantasy/SF genre deeper than those who only read the cookie cutters like WoT, ASOIAF and Malazan.
Their opinion is worth more.
>>7926280
I think you'd be most interested in Cherryh's Foreigner series, Fortress series, and Cyteen/Regenesis. I generally recommend the Chanur series as an introduction to her work.
>>7926313
>Wolfe as of yet is not.
You make it sound like he is someone new and has yet to hit his peak. It's never happening.
>People who read Wolfe are likely to have explored the fantasy/SF genre deeper than those who only read the cookie cutters like WoT, ASOIAF and Malazan.
You're underestimating the amount of people who gave him a shot and think he's underwhelming / not as good.
>>7926321
And there are a lot of people who give glorified Twilight fanfic 4/5 stars on goodreads.
People I don't care about.
>>7926310
>Such as yourself, I'm guessing.
By the community of other writers. So Le Guin, Martin, Swanwick (did I spell that right?), C. Wright and a bunch of others.
>not reading for pleasure but for some arbitrary intelligent 2deep4u stuff
Pleasure comes exactly from depth of the work. It isn't mindless entertainment, it's something which changes you as you read.
>*tips trilby*
Son you accuse women of being reddit and are the most reddit person here.
Rothfuss sucks dick
>>7926331
He does. He is quite awful.
I personally can't see why people enjoy him at all. He is devoid of any good qualities in his writing.
>>7926326
You can have depth and still be entertaining for en masse. Despite what you might say, Malazan is a pretty hard series to get into with that first book, and it's still very successful. Some authors take "depth" too far and flaunt their knowledge, and then when people call their work shit it's apparently the reader's fault. Afterwards they fall into nichedom where only about 10 people religiously love them and the rest doesn't care.
I'll just leave this here.
C.J. Cherryh Named SFWA Damon Knight Grand Master
http://www.sfwa.org/2016/02/35732/
The Damon Knight Memorial Grand Master Award is given by SFWA for “lifetime achievement in science fiction and/or fantasy.” Cherryh joins the Grand Master ranks alongside such legends as Gene Wolfe, Anne McCaffrey, Ursula K. LeGuin, Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury, and Joe Haldeman. The award will be presented at the 51st SFWA Nebula Conference in Chicago, IL, May 12-15, 2016.
>>7926367
Women have no ambition mate
Obvious affirmative action
https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/4exnx6/king_killer_chronicles/
>>7926354
>You can have depth and still be entertaining for en masse.
Indeed. Wolfe is in some novels very entertaining. Short Sun and The Wizard Knight, Tolkien, Leiber and many others. Graham Greene is an author who worked hard to balance depth and entertainment and was widely read, but is now remembered for his more thoughtful works.
>Despite what you might say, Malazan is a pretty hard series to get into with that first book, and it's still very successful.
That's because it's hard to get into because it's a terribly written novel, not because it is thematically deep or has complex prose or requires full attention. It's just Erikson being incompetent to do natural exposition like Leiber or Wolfe or just simple, straight out telling like Lem.
>Some authors take "depth" too far and flaunt their knowledge, and then when people call their work shit it's apparently the reader's fault.
It is. The fact that the reader doesn't invest himself enough into a work of art to allow it to enrich him isn't the authors fault. I got into Tolstoy when I was 16 and Wolfe and Dostoevsky at 18. I'm not some genius, it just needs a bit of effort and realization that satisfaction and enrichment don't come through instant gratification.
>Afterwards they fall into nichedom where only about 10 people religiously love them and the rest doesn't care.
Yeah, like Joyce or Proust or the rest of literature which is either loved by the pleb masses or is forgotten.
>>7926381
>The fact that the reader doesn't invest himself enough into a work of art to allow it to enrich him isn't the authors fault.
How does this even work? How do you propose readers invest themselves, other than reading the work and trying to make sense of it? If only a very small number of people can "invest" themselves than there is obviously something wrong and the author made a mistake somewhere trying to communicate his ideas.
>>7926405
>How does this even work? How do you propose readers invest themselves, other than reading the work and trying to make sense of it?
That's all it takes. But people don't do that. People expect literature to be like porn or video games.
>If only a very small number of people can "invest" themselves than there is obviously something wrong and the author made a mistake somewhere trying to communicate his ideas.
Very few people try to invest themselves. It's like saying that only few people can be fit knowing only few even try to run.
And besides, very few works are actually something hard to read. Literature isn't metaphysics.
>>7926392
>I'm fascinated by how Wolfe is the first legend on the list.
I think that the author just grabbed some names off of the list. Wolfe received this award fairly recently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damon_Knight_Memorial_Grand_Master_Award
>Did anyone here read her? Never heard of her honestly.
I don't think anyone else has admitted to it yet. I've only been vocal about her the last month or so.
>>7926405
or people are too dumb? I mean, it's pretty obvious. If you write like Sanderson (and this is not an insult) many people will be possible readers. The more intelligence, depth etc you add, that number shrinks .
That's why shit books like twilight and 50 shades of gray literally sell 100 million copies. Do you think any writer can reach that? Do you think quality was really a concern ?
>>7926405
different strokes for different folks man
what is the consensus on the later Malazan novels? what about the Esslemont ?
Books 2-6(maybe 7) where good, however 8-10...I don't know. Maybe he built up my hype too much, I expected more. The Assail where pathetic, the great enemies where random armies showing up...and don't get me started on the slog. I get it, soldiers live and wonder why...damn. An editor might have saved it, essentially cutting 50% of the books...still, length and big scope where always a Malazan thing...I was just disappointing. I expected them to be awesome but they where.
>>7926444
Malazan is consistent from what I've read
>>7926431
I find your shill a lacking one.
Talk more about themes, ideas and so on.
>>7926381
>seeing this cunt just name dropping Authors every thread
Do you think that because you're reading these big names, it makes you something special?
I'm getting sick of reading your posts, please start using a trip so I can filter you.
>>7926318
Are you going to be our new shill?
We had Gay, Rape and Incest, Wolfe, Tolkien, Elric... now Cherryh.
>>7926492
>Do you think that because you're reading these big names, it makes you something special?
Yes, I'm better than you and if I became annoying enough I may chase you away.
>I'm getting sick of reading your posts, please start using a trip so I can filter you.
Nah, I'll just enjoy annoying you. I didn't know before, but it's satisfying.
>>7926497
I want to become a shill for something too. What about Ishiguro? Buried Giant should fall nicely into the "literary fantasy" that people here like so much. Go read it! Although I guess he only has that one book. I need someone else. I'd shill light novels because I think there are some truly great ones out there onpar with the greatest sff but I think too many people are afraid of stepping out of their comfort zones. Oh well
>>7926497
New shills are always welcome if they shill good stuff.
That one was shilling Tigana and one shilled me Wright and both are pretty interesting.
>>7926509
Be a Chesterton shill, we could use one.
>>7926381
when will you be enriched by the fact that people read books for different reasons, all of them equally important, and that acting like a cunt will only make you bitter?
I'm writing a low-tech scifi book right now. Do these themes interest you?
>Accepting the unacceptable/inhuman
>The smallness of mankind
>Immortality and the importance of death
>Control of things beyond nature/science
>Destruction of things beyond nature/science
>Chasms of distance between mankind and the paranormal/extraterrestrial/inter dimensional/demonic
>>7926522
>when will you be enriched by the fact that people read books for different reasons, all of them equally important,
Never because they aren't equally important.
>and that acting like a cunt will only make you bitter?
My bitterness is irrelevant. It's just that you plebs think your shit taste somehow deserves my respect. If you want everyone to respect your shit opinion fuck off somewhere else because I'm staying here. Been here since the first thread and I don't intend to go anywhere.
>>7926498
We've been infiltrated.
>>7926531
newsflash: no one gives a flying fuck what you think you silly goose
>>7926476
>I find your shill a lacking one.
That's because I'm a pleb.
>Talk more about themes, ideas and so on.
I'd say the most consistent theme across her work is political intrigue. I speculate that her love (and talent) for characterizing alien cultures grew into a realization that nothing is more (in)human than politics, so she tends to highlight it, even when it isn't the main theme of the book. Her (ongoing) Foreigner series represents her most ambitious endeavor in this vein, balancing two insular human and one alien culture. Her Chanur series has less depth, but follows the interaction of around 6 alien races (some with internal factions) with humans as the mysterious interlopers from outside known space.
>>7926492
Get out you pleb
What is Gormenghast even about? It's fixed to one place, does it stay engaging?
>>7926534
I've been here since the first thread mate.
>>7926539
That isn't true since people are in an argument with me right now.
>>7926542
Sounds interesting enough. The problem I always have with novels like that are, as with John C. Wright, is that humans can never make the human elements go away so you always see elements of humanity arranged in a certain way. That's what I loved about Solaris so much, Solaris was entirely not human making it incomprehensible.
>>7926528
Well your shill was the first time I heard about him. He certainly isn't mentioned often, or I just missed him.
>>7926531
>Been here since the first thread and I don't intend to go anywhere.
Ah, so you were the one shitting on Sanderson posts from thread one... It makes sense now.
I always thought it was some passing lurker that happened into our General. I didn't know it was a bitter neckbeard, who, all lonely with his eclectic tastes, and being rejected by other elitist, is forcing his seed down an unwilling harlot's throat.
Fuck off mate, how does it feel that no one here likes you, and that you are dispied?
>>7926497
Yeah, she has two mentions in the OP lists, but I've not seen anyone else mention her. It seemed appropriate, since she is my unquestioned favorite.
>>7926555
>That isn't true since people are in an argument with me right now.
yeah internet is serious business
>>7926534
Since when did Harrison Ford come on lit?
>>7926259
>I said that more philosophy you know the better/more interesting the series will be
Just because a series incorporates philosophy doesn't necessarily make it a more interesting story. Like I said before, there are many writers who I feel accomplish more philosophically or theologically than Bakker does and did so with a better story, characters, literary techniques, etc. (Do I really need to name them again? Wolfe, Tolkien, Dick, Delaney, even Zelazny for example). Again, I think you're misunderstanding my position. I'm not saying the series is bad. I've already conceded that the series is a cut above most of the other stuff out there right now. Bakker, for all his deftness at creating a detailed and realized world, lacks the subtle poignancy of someone like Tokien or Peake or Wolfe, who have a great ability to evoke focused emotion which ties directly to the thematic and philosophical themes of the series.
>a mary sue is someone who has magical powers for no reason.
A mary sue is a fetishized self-insert. It has nothing to do with having magical powers. As I said before, Kellhus is a mary-sue in the sense that he holds characteristics and mannerisms which appeal to a certain type of individual, in this case, strict materialists and nihilists. He's painted a little better than someone like Kvothe, but not by much. Akka and Cnair were Bakker's better characters IMO.
>All these things affect people, add in a very shitty past (especially recent past) and it's no wonder most characters are depressed and half mad.
Yes I understand all this. And i would even agree that the history of the world and it's effect on the plot as a whole is very well done. For me it still lacks the emotional or philosophical weight of something like, say TBotNS or even LotR.
>>7926551
It's about a castle a few generations living there. I've read the first one only so far and didn't find it as engaging as I expected, but that is more on my part really, there was no click.
It's more about atmosphere and characters than anything else. Steerpike I is the only character in it who progresses or even makes a plot because it's much about the oppressive nature of tradition followed blindly. The prose is superb and it's worth a read if anything for the supreme gothic aesthetic it brings to the table. Expect something closer to Proust or Joyce than to Tolkien or Leiber.
>>7926562
Serious enough to spend hours on it I guess.
>>7926558
>Ah, so you were the one shitting on Sanderson posts from thread one... It makes sense now.
Not just me believe it or not.
>I always thought it was some passing lurker that happened into our General.
No and it's also more people. If you find the idea that it's only me comforting, I can't really prove otherwise.
>I didn't know it was a bitter neckbeard, who, all lonely with his eclectic tastes, and being rejected by other elitist, is forcing his seed down an unwilling harlot's throat.
If that analysis makes you feel better about yourself and your shit taste, I can't help you.
>Fuck off mate, how does it feel that no one here likes you, and that you are dispied?
Well it's anonymous. I can't really tell how many people like or dislike me, it could be just you and a few other anons. Not that it means much. I'll stay here and I'll continue the shill of the authors I find worth the read.
>>7926525
>Control of things beyond nature/science
>Destruction of things beyond nature/science
Like what? Could we not classify virtually any and everything under the two terms of science or nature?
>>7926580
Since you seen like you are basically a less asshole me, which fantasy outside the one that I shill already should I check out?
>>7926525
This is the first description of a fantasy in the making here I actually like. It seems like you have interesting ideas to explore and am genuinely interested in it if you ever start writing.
>>7926555
>The problem I always have with novels like that are, as with John C. Wright, is that humans can never make the human elements go away so you always see elements of humanity arranged in a certain way.
Yeah, she tends to do best with human factions that don't have that problem. In Chanur the 2-3 methane breathing races can only communicate indirectly, making their motivations unclear. The books are entirely from the perspective of an alien ship captain, and only rudimentary communication is achieved with humans, so their motivations are also unclear.
>>7926588
>Like what? Could we not classify virtually any and everything under the two terms of science or nature?
That's the thing though anon. There's creatures, objects, events, that occur outside the realms of both science and nature, things that shouldn't be logically possible.
They can do great good for us, but also great evil, yet we simply do not understand their mechanisms or logic. We either must destroy them for our safety and sanity, or to harness them for our use, and the characters/factions in my book are split not just on this, but on other issues as well.
What are the ethics of immortality? What does it mean to be a human, what role does death play in the grand human experience? And what if you could slip past death itself?
These are all questions I'm hoping to answer in my book
>>7926592
Thank you very much!
>>7926594
Did you read Book of the New Sun? It has a fantastic chapter in which a character who can only speak in state approved phrases which is alongside Solaris and Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldrich the strangest experience in Sff I've had thus far.
>>7926321
>You make it sound like he is someone new and has yet to hit his peak. It's never happening.
People use to say the same thing about McCarthy, Pynchon, O'Connor, hell even Melville (who died in obscurity).
>You're underestimating the amount of people who gave him a shot and think he's underwhelming / not as good.
It's fine to hold this stance, but I would venture to say that the majority who hold this opinion had very little idea of what Wolfe was really doing (where's that Keely copypasta? I think this applies here).
>>7926604
So paranormal themes, I'm assuming? Even something extra-dimensional or eldritch or any like that? Since I saw you had mentioned para- later on in your post. It could be done well if you... do it well. I'd be interested into it. Although I'd say death and immortality certainly fall under nature and science, respectively.You could possibly argue that immortality is nature because of tardigrades but eh.
>>7926607
I intend to, as soon as I can acquire the books. Only have book 3 so far.
>>7926609
Keely has a truly stunning review of New Sun. It misses everything and is infuriated by the very idea that a character in a fictional world doesn't hold progressive views.
>>7926592
The Worm Ourboros, Gormenghast, TBotNS (durrrr), Chronicles of Amber, Lord of Light, Tales of Neveryon.
Ok I'm falling for the Wolfe meme.
Is Wizard Knight great, or just average? Should I just go directly to his best work in New Sun? How many pages of the latter do I have to read to be able to form a proper opinion on its style?
Tell me and I'll give you what I think about him in a couple of days. I'm actually not biased against him and genuinely want to like him, but I'm kind of iffy on meme authors now since Dying Earth was disappointing (excellent prose, but completely uninteresting and uninspired plot made me drop it).
>>7926641
It's my opinion to never start with BotNS. Start with some of his short stories first to get a feel for his style and accustomed to his nuances in no particular order, I would recommend:
>The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories
>The Death of Doctor Island
>The Hero as Werwolf
>Trip, Trap
>The Detective of Dreams
>A Cabin on the Coast
These are some personal favorites, but they'll give you a good idea of how Wolfe works and some of his thematic and theological themes.
Then I would move on to either The Fifth Head of Cerberus or Peace (my personal favorite). After this, if you are still intrigued, take on TBotNS.
Have fun.
>>7926641
>Ok I'm falling for the Wolfe meme.
A sign from God
>Is Wizard Knight great, or just average?
It's super fun on the surface with tons of subtext and a ride as far as imagination goes.
>Should I just go directly to his best work in New Sun?
I did, it's not a book you need to read alongside a guide.
<How many pages of the latter do I have to read to be able to form a proper opinion on its style?
Style itself is captivating from the start, but the plot is woven in such a way that you need to read it completely to understand many of his ideas and messages.
>Tell me and I'll give you what I think about him in a couple of days. I'm actually not biased against him and genuinely want to like him, but I'm kind of iffy on meme authors now since Dying Earth was disappointing (excellent prose, but completely uninteresting and uninspired plot made me drop it).
Wolfe has the best style in sff aside Peake. If you like symbolism you'll enjoy Wolfe because much of the joy of reading him is in deciphering the mystery. Connection the symbols and the picture make has never disappointed me. You'll enjoy it especially if you have religious inclinations or just like religious literature.
>>7926664
Damn, this is gonna be good. How much have you written of this?
Is there any barbarian archetype more bad ass than Cnaiur from second apocalypse?
Give me your best psychotic,large weapon welding madman with at least a few rapes and horrible murders under his hands.
>>7926664
I dig the prose.
>>7926681
I can't help but immediately think of Guts.
>>7926664
I'm stilin all your ideas. Take it as a compliment. Cool story(in the making) brah.
>>7926664
This is surprisingly not shit, considering we are on /lit/.
>>7926689
yep. I know of him. There's Connan and the guy from First Law. There's also Karsa from Malazan. Any others? the more badass the better.
>>7926692
Awww I was actually worried about people doing that when I posted here. Please don't steal, that's rood
>>7926689
>>7926698
Thank you both.
It is part of book one (It's only going to be two books) called "Immortalizer" and the other book is called "Humanizer"
WANNA GUESS WHAT THEMES HUMANIZER DEALS WITH GIVEN THAT YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEMES IMMORTALIZER DEALS WITH!?
>>7926662
The reason why I kind of want to start with New Sun is because it's his definite best and most of the reason for his praise. I feel like if I read one of those short stories and it ends up underwhelming I might not read anything else of his. Whereas if I enjoy New Sun I will probably like those short stories too, I'm thinking.
>>7926675
Alright, gonna go with BOTNS. I'm gonna give a short blog update here when I'm 50 pages in or so, stay tuned.
>>7926679
I've got a few pages out thus far, though I wont be posting them here. I'm just an amateur writer desu, so I'm constantly trying to get better. I'm very glad you like it
>>7926701
Nah. It's Karsa. There's Caine from Heroes Die who competes in the badass stakes but he's not exactly fitting the archetype.
>>7926711
>The reason why I kind of want to start with New Sun is because it's his definite best and most of the reason for his praise. I feel like if I read one of those short stories and it ends up underwhelming I might not read anything else of his. Whereas if I enjoy New Sun I will probably like those short stories too, I'm thinking.
Peace is my favorite for what it's worth. Everything that Wolfe accomplished in BotNS is accomplished in Peace in a far shorter length and with even more laser-focused attention than BotNS. Don't get me wrong, BotNS is by far my favorite fantasy series, but Peace has an incredibly melancholic theme which resonates with me on a more personal level.
Peace is also the one Wolfe novel that is as close to a 'normal' novel as you'll find in his bibliography. It's a horror story but not in a traditional sense.
>>7926711
Actually Peace goes by as his best and Wolfe's personal favorite.I wouldn't know, going to leave it for the final boss.
His short stories, especially Island of Doctor Death, are great. It's probably one of the most original reads I've ever had. It's about a boy who is fascinated by an Island of Doctor Moreau who is trying to escape the fact that his mom is a heroin addict. The reality weaves with the fiction and both progress paralelly. It's a superb work.
So now that we have successfully turned Wolfe into the final boss of SFF, can we start shilling Lafferty as the Sephiroth to Wolfe's Kefka?
>MFW, no one on goodreads understands Sodom and Gomorrah, Texas.
>>7926742
My constant Wolfe shill has been going on for over a year, you'll going to need to try a bit harder.
>>7926630
>I listened the audiobook for the first time because I would have had to order online.
Unfortunately, I have trouble concentrating with audiobooks. I think my library affiliated bookstore has some Wolfe in the back. I may just have to give up and start volunteering there so that the good stuff actually makes it out onto the shelves.
>>7926709
There is nothing there.
>>7926794
u jus dont get the aesthetic fear i guess
>>7926681
Karsa Orlong from Malazan
>>7926788
Yeah I guess audio doesn't work for everyone.
You can get a Kobo from ebay for 45$ which will open the door for almost all of Wolfe and just about everything else. I got one and it's one of the best buys I've had.
>>7925491
>Dunyain getting removed
>imblyign
They'll always get their way.
Even in your most secret dreams, you'll find a Dunyain cock inside your waifu.
>>7926816
I've got an old Nook Color that I read stuff on sometimes, but I spend all day staring at screens, so I prefer to get physical books whenever possible. I might need to resort to the Nook for some of these recommendations though.
>>7926845
Well the point of an ereader is that it doesn't differ from a book for the eyes.
It works for me and I'll be reading Book of the Short Sun after finishing some philosophy.
>>7926845
I have a Kindle 3 and it is amazing. Doesn't even feel like I'm staring at a screen, probably because of the e-ink thing.
>>7926824
damn,would really like to read stories about kellhus fucking up other universes. just him walking into asoiaf.or lotr.he would wreck the elves
>>7926865
45$ is what 5 books? If it breaks at 10 you still get your value.
who is the coolest character in fantasy ?
>>7926880
Felisin
>>7924517
Now Wait for Last Year is my favorite of the SF, Confessions of a Crap Artist is the best of the straight novels.
what are the most /lit/ culture ship names? what would they bi in botns ?
>>7926909
u fo real ? u mean felisin fatter ?
>>7926874
>45$ is what 5 books?
Heh, try 100. I only started buying books again because I found a place that had a good SFF selection for 25-50 cents each.
I'll definitely think on it though, the kobo looks like a neat device.
>>7926799
I liked when the Indian witch said he was going to split her with "that thing".
>>7926969
torrent fgt.pay autors directly if u want donations
>>7926987
karsa is a nigga,a real alpha nigga
Anyone read Neal Asher books?
They turned out to be great.
Thanks guy(s) who shilled them to me last year.
What other books did SFFG shill to you that actually turned out great?
>>7927003
I read all 10 books and Karsa, Oblala Pung, the mad king that wears robes and Bugg were my favourites.
They had me cracking up.
There was also that mage who burnt out after he basically revived everyone... i had feels when he talked how his Mom raped him..
>>7926995
I don't understand what this has to do with the price of an e-reader.
>Reading Citadel of the Autarch
>Battle chapter comes up
>mfw
Does Wolfe use battles as a fetish showcase?
Also which genre fiction writers tried to ape his style?
>>7927082
You mean the warrior virgins or something?
And John C. Wright tried to emulate his storytelling in a way where information is slowly revealed. Outside of that I never noticed any, but I haven't read many modern sff novels by previously unestablished authors.
>>7927114
The fucking dwarves riding blind supersonic giants
Will check him out
>>7927120
He is only superficially similar. He's fun, but Wolfe is something else. Just keep that in mind.
And the dwarves were dank af.
>>7927132
I'm not complaining but he might have gone a bit Flash Gordon-y on the variety of races and peoples.
>>7924131
Thanks for telling me about Eric Flint...bad ass. I'm going to read him now.
Rothfuss has always come across like a garden variety liberal to me rather than a leftist.
Does anyone have thoughts on Octavia Butler? I'm almost done with Dawn (Book #1 of the Xenogenesis/Lilith's Brood series) and it's kinda underwhelming. Anybody read Kindred or the Earthseed books?
>>7927008
Read the 1st Ian Cormac like 10 years ago and the The Departure somewhat recently. Should probably revisit.
>>7927272
He is, same as Scalzi.
>>7927035
Masan Gilani waifu material
>>7927035
Beak
>>7926109
>where's the 10 book epic
Thank you for proving my original point. You're simply not looking for the kind of fantasy most women write.
Why aren't there any women writing deep metaphysical SFF like Wolfe?
>>7927374
Because they want good sales
What are some series like the stormlight archive where the world is very different and well developed?
>>7927374
>YFW based Momma Flan Flan never wrote a Southern Gothic inspired SFF masterpiece
I am one of those faggot cucks that likes to maintain the gender parity of the authors I read. Just read The City and the City (male), reading Paksenarrion (female).
Planning to read Perdido Street Station (male) Downbelow Station (female, also to get into sci-fi) next.
Can anyone vouch for Downbelow Station or is it as dull as they say?
Should I give up this endeavor and just do Mistborn, Prince of Thrones, etc? I can't yet tell if I prefer sci-fi or fantasy.
>>7927459
Could check out Heroes Die for a solid mash-up.
>>7927459
Stop being a cuck!
>>7927459
I'd adjust the ratio at least.
>>7923369
The whole universe behind Eclipse Phase is written from a leftist point of view.
>>7927459
You're either going to run out of female authors or be forced venture into some genuinely dangerous territory
>>7927035
>it takes like 5 books for Karsa to decide rape isn't a good thing
My sides
>>7927374sshhhh
>>7927459
>Can anyone vouch for Downbelow Station or is it as dull as they say?
Cherryh is a goddess.
I like Downbelow Station, but it isn't action oriented. It's a tense political drama, in space.
tfw reading Zelazny for the 1st time.
>I stood before a trooper and looked up at him.
>I asked him, "Do you know who Eric is?"
>"The Lord of Evil," he replied
>I nodded and said, "Very good," and passed on.
>>7927855
How /pol/ is it?
>>7927869
It isn't?
Cherryh doesn't try to examine which political systems are better. She does "what would this look like" and "how would these interact".
>>7926865
If you're savvy about getting digital books, it's definitely worth it.
>>7927611
>genuinely dangerous territory
Not to regurgitate a stale meme from a shit board, but... what did he mean by this? Who is there that's "genuinely dangerous"?
>>7928035
>Crippled God
>Sinne, Gesler, and Stormy
>>7927459
This is a huge mistake. Why don't you start making sure that they're also split between races, sexuality, and upbringing for maximum diversity?
Most of the best novels will have been written by men simply because most novels are written by men. It's good you're ignoring the stigma against female authors some people here have, but this is simple statistics. You're going to have to start scraping the bottom of the barrell when it comes to good SF penned by a woman rather quickly.
>>7927866
is this real
and people shit on sanderson lmao
https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/4eza56/gene_wolfe_the_wizarddisappointing/
Is he right?
>>7928528
Zelanzy wrote both just for fun and serious novels.
Where is that one from? Honestly it sounds cool.
>>7928572
He just said that it's disappointing and I didn't find it disappointing at all.
>>7928572
Go back there if you want an opinion.
>>7925497
Only if you are a faggot who only listens to bitching online and who doesn't read Ellison's work.
>>7925828
Look up space Viking.
>>7927374
Because for some centuries women weren't really drawn to that genre. The chance that a fantasy or scifi author creates something genuinely deep and good and /lit/ is already so thin, what are the odds of that author being a woman.
>>7927438
Should I just rewrite her stories by replacing farms with spaceships, cities with space colonies, Europe with Earth and negroes with aliens?
>>7928528
You should read For A Breath I Tarry.
It's only a short story and it managed to convince me Zelazny was a master of SFF.
>>7924882
Bakker is god
Give me FIVE reasons Brandon Sanderson isn't good faggots.
