Is there a correlation between depression and creativity?
Writers seem to have a higher suicide/depression rate then the average person
>>7919619
>Writers seem to have a higher suicide/depression rate then the average person
Do they really?
>>7919689
I think writers are just behind musicians and dentists w/r/t suicide
>>7919694
It might be something to do with thinking, everything's shit so the more you think about stuff the more shit you fill your head with
>>7919619
>lots of time alone
>have to be exceptionally emotionally sensitive
Being depressed probably doesn't make you more creative, but the type of person who's a good writer may be inclined to emotional distress.
Maybe depression makes you more prone to thinking and mentally challenging yourself because you're discontent with just living life.
There is also maybe a need to 'escape', which creative media facilitate.
>>7919619
>Writers seem to have a higher suicide/depression rate then the average person
when a dentist/office guy/whatever dies noone gives a shit and everything goes on normally.
when a musician dies his/her albums suddenly sell trice the numbers.
when a writer kills him/herself, articles get written, dramatic forewords to new editions of his/her novels are written and that author can be marketed as "sad genius" from now on.
>Is there a correlation between depression and creativity?
google it you dip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_illness
>>7919619
Artists and writers are typically born under Saturn, which gives them a melancholic temperament and an excess of black bile.
My narcissistic pet theory is that writers are more "sensitive", that is, anyone who's driven to express themselves through art most likely feels things more strongly than those who don't, for reflexive reasons. Naturally if you feel sadness or hopelessness more strongly than the average Joe then you're more likely to do something about it.
>>7919619
Creativity requires solitude and solitude breeds depression.
>>7919619
Because the "artiste" life is a depressing one for everyone other than the top 1% of all musicians/artists/writers. Society is schizophrenic in that it's gluttonous for entertainment, but the people who want to create art or entertainment are essentially pariahs unless they make something popular.
You pretty much have to internalize some level of hypocrisy for your art to be financially viable, and that just fucks people up in all sorts of ways.
>>7919619
Yes. I could explain why, but it takes a while.
It has to do with competition. Survival of the fittest, etc. It gets really long.
>>7919694
>dentists
I definitely didn't expect that. So pulling teeth out of other's mouths does carry its toll
>>7919764
>>7919619
People need to feel needed. Without this, they're adrift and have less reason to push through adversity or even do anything.
Dentists and artists are alike in that their work tends not to feel necessary, or at least immediately, urgently necessary. On top of that, many in both groups feel professional frustration: dentists in contrast to doctors and artists in contrast to popular artists.
I've wondered if all great philosophers must have had a tragic moment in their life to begin thinking skeptically. Those who live pampered lives are just less likely to be skeptical of the world, and it seems most philosophers have histories of tragedy. I'm sure a similar idea can be applied to writers and other artists; to become one one must pick at themselves and refine themselves to fit their personal notion of a great artist.
>>7919774
Yeah I'm sure dentists feel far less needed than the garbage man or the people flipping burgers at McDonald's.
>>7919785
I mean, I dunno about burgers, but the garbage doesn't take itself to the landfill. You can honestly have good teeth without a dentist if you eat right, and dentists know it.
>>7919764
It is a strange statistic but it's true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_illness
"Parallels can be drawn to connect creativity to Major Mental Illnesses including: Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, Depression, Anxiety Disorder, and ADHD. For example, numerous studies have demonstrated correlations between creative occupations and people living with mental illness. There are cases that support the idea that mental illness can aid in creativity, but there is also strong support that mental illness does not have to be present for creativity to exist."
>>7919794
I think I've heard a theory that dentist suicide has to do with them being more likely to be perfectionists and not able to to live up to there own standards. Idk.
>>7919774
I just figured that dentistry is considered a well-payed, stable profession and that would attract smart and stable people who wouldn't be more prone to depression than population on average. Also, they are there to secure other people's well-being so they certainly have a profound meaning to their job, although probably not all of their clients show immediate respect for that during an appointment
>>7919689
its not outrageously different but yes they do
>>7919774
You've been memed by le Protestant work ethics. It's not about feeling useful unless you're a co-dependent ego-cuck. It's about facing a world that's inherently hostile to your existence. Art and artists exist in spite of society, not because of it. Art is the sort of thing that tends to be posthumously appreciated or worshiped. A dead artist is worth more than a living one, so society, almost by design, strives to kill as many artists as possible.
>>7919809
Like they wanted to be doctors and didn't make it? I guess I could see it but you'd think people would rationalize it eventually.
>>7919810
>not all of their clients show immediate respect for that
People don't even show M.D.s telling them to stop eating five meat lovers pizzas every night or they'll lose their feet any respect. I think people tend to just go into autopilot when their dentist starts talking.
>>7919810
People resent their dentists even though they perform a necessary service.
>>7919810
I think it probably doesn't help that the majority of their patients either are terrified of them or view them as med-school dropouts. You either get made to feel like you're torturing the patient or they dispise you. Especially if you're charging them through the nose for what most view as non-life essential medical procedures.
>>7919810
I believe me and my therapist at the time talked about Dentist suicides briefly a few years ago and I remember him saying it has to with the fact everyone fucking hates them at work. No one on earth has ever enjoyed being at the Dentist, and since much of what they have to do every day inevitably involves hurting people, it takes a serious toll on them.
>>7919818
>Like they wanted to be doctors and didn't make it? I guess I could see it but you'd think people would rationalize it eventually.
I can't even imagine how awful this would feel. Every day waking up to go to a job you only took because you weren't good enough to be wjat you wanted to be would break anyone.
>>7919818
No one's really respected just for doing their job. Especially if their job involves bringing people pain (even if it's necessary pain). You have to remember that most people take the idea of professionals for granted, and everyone who's doing their job without being seen is only really vaguely appreciated in an abstract way, like one shows their "appreciation" for access to electricity by sperging out when the power goes out.
I must say that my most creative moods, in which I am fully invested in articulating myself as well as I am able and allowing myself to express the kinds of emotions and thoughts to which most people are either only infrequently granted access (usually against their will) or which they lack the capacity to experience, leaves my nerves ragged and makes me very susceptible to immense sadness and periods of depression wherein my energy, composure and genius are replaced completely with despondency, apathy and a general lack of perceived purpose in continuing to exist. Thankfully I have nearly completed the sixth and final instalment of my debut memoir, and once the editing is finished I look forward to a period of rest and relative relaxation (I know true relaxation is beyond such a mind as my own at this point). My mommy often bears witness to these periods of depression I suffer as a consequence of my willingness to serve as a sort of literary martyr, and being the kind and maternal woman she is I am often rescued from the nadir of an existential dilemma by a soft knocking on my door and the whispered news that a bath is running and that my food will be ready in time to eat it while bathing and allowing my nerves to recover from hours of overwork and near exhaustion. I will likely pay tribute to my mother by dedicating at least the first book if not the entire six-parts of the memoir to her.
No.
That's just a narcissistic romanticist meme.
If you had depression you'd have no drive to be creative. I can't even read when I'm depressed.
Fuck off to /mu/.
>>7919862
Memoire, I knew it was from the first few words of that post. How's the great pizza box offensive coming along?
>>7919778
When Dostoyevski was in prison in St. Petersburg he was once taken out and placed in front of a firing squad, but the squad only fired blanks. You can imagine that doing something to your psyche along with the fact of being imprisoned with murderers. He also experienced profound visions during his epileptic seizures
>>7919867
Yeah it's just a meme except for the studies that show it to be true.
>>7919867
Read the wiki article.
>>7919867
You've been memed by modern psychiatry if you think chemical imbalance-induced depression is the only kind. Popping pills isn't the answer for everyone even if it occasionally works for some people.
>>7919774
>Dentists and artists are alike in that their work tends not to feel necessary
Don't be ridiculous. A dentist knows he is doing a valuable service; an artist, especially an undiscovered one or one struggling with anxiety over sharing their art, beats himself up in self-doubt and stress over failing make manifest that great image in his mind.
>>7919872
The pizza delivery strategy is only one of several strategies I am considering, though at the moment I am attempting to respect what is left of a once-proud literary tradition by having my published via conventional means (i.e. by identifying an agent capable of appreciating my work and then a publisher who is as perceptive and empathic as the agent who "pitches" my work to him). Any such alternative strategies will only be considered once I am convinced that I, like many writers of great renown, must accept that my prescience and purity of expression is simply out of place in contemporary times and will either required some desperate attempt on my part to force influential members of the publishing establishment to acknowledge its profound genius or by allowing fate to rescue my work from total obscurity once I have died.
>>7919874
>profound visions during his epileptic seizures
very true. this might have caused his incredible urge to write
It is long known that one's own passions are their best medicine; when those creators of art are mentally unwell they naturally reach for their power to create, and thus from their ill of ease they can hone greatness
>>7919907
So how's the agent search going? From personal experience I know it sucks. Also are you familiar with how the proposal process for memoirs/nonfiction works, or are you just doing your thing?
>>7919945
The sexegenarian librarian who has proven herself to be most accommodating of my frequent visits to my local library in order to write and edit my work (after my laptop stopped working) ordered in a copy of a writers' yearbook in which various agents are listed and advice is provided regarding the submission process. I find the patronizing tone very disturbing however and due to my ability to empathize with other people I am consequently capable of viewing the world from their perspective or at least from the perspective of an individual working their kind of job, and my conclusion is that having read countless manuscripts and submission letters detailing the individual's educational credentials and their previous experience of being shortlisted for the Sheboygan Regional Flash Fiction Competition in 2007 they are likely to be surprised, hopefully pleasantly, when they come across a letter such as my own which expresses frankly and without artifice or false humility my ambitions and my justifications for completing the project in which I have dedicated what is essentially my life. So far I have only received either no response or responses which have caused me to become rather skeptical of the mercenary trade of the literary agent, with one agent interpreting my persistence as a threat against his person and another refusing to represent my work but praising the "curious [...] project" I presented him with. I can only hope that in a small office somewhere sits a man of integrity and compassion who will read my work and become overwhelmed by the urgency of tone and the profound articulation of what he may have previously thought to be ineffable. I also wish you well with your endeavours.
I love my dentist, he's gentle in avoiding me any pain, smiles and jokes around all the time, and is quiet a qt. I don't think good dentists in general suffer from patients' hatred, maybe the shitty ones who accidentally cut your lip, or don't show finesse with their instruments.
On the artists being depressed thing, i've haven't red about that, but i have heard that people with bipolar personality disorder tend to have higher IQs and verifiably more creative than your average person. They also show great abilities in linguistic intelligence. Idk the cause though, it's not known yet i think.
>>7920054
What a shit post. Are you a woman?
/thread
>>7920074
Why is it a shit post?
>>7920077
>>>/tumblr/
Intelligence is ego. Higher intelligence should be combined with spirituality. Too much thinking sends you off your rocker. Or rather not being able to stop thinking.
Eckhart tolle fanatic.
>>7919619
I'm a famous writer. I fuck at least three women a week. I am rich and well respected. I have fulfilled all of my hopes and dreams. I have nothing else to live for.
>>7921493
This is a fully documented thing. Humans freak out ie look at the tons of celebs that go off the deepend. Getting everything you desire ruins people. I have no idea what its called. Ego death?
If you're a talented writer you're a highly sensitive person that has chosen to spend 50 hours a week alone trying to commodify your most personal moments.
Then someone on 4chan calls you a cunt for doing so.
Of course they are depressed.
>Is there a correlation between depression and creativity?
Manic depressives are more creative in their manic episodes, and other kinds of mental illness that are often comorbid with depression might increase creativity, but depression itself kills creativity.
>>7919886
>You've been memed by modern psychiatry if you think chemical imbalance-induced depression is the only kind.
What the fuck does that mean? If there is a form of "depression" that isn't caused by chemical imbalance, then it is fundamentally distinct from depression that is caused by chemical balance, and therefore shouldn't be called "depression".
>>7919936
Depression makes you not want to do anything. It makes you bored of the things you like to do, and it makes you not want to try new things. If some "creative" person becomes melancholy and reacts by going and indulging in their passions, they're not depressed.
Depression isn't about sadness. At its best, it's about the inability to feel good. At its worst, it's about unrelievable suffering.
>>7921521
>Depression isn't about sadness. At its best, it's about the inability to feel good. At its worst, it's about unrelievable suffering.
This.
The worst part about it is not really caring about anything anymore; becoming numb to the world.
>>7921521
Nobody gives a shit about your own personal understanding of what depression "is". The facts are that creatives, particularly writers, kill themselves twice as more often than those who aren't, and are significantly more likely to have been diagnosed with some form of depressive disorder.
>>7919619
I haven't read the thread yet but let me throw an idea at you. People who have depression often hit a low period of no drive where they are left to think(Alone perhaps?). This period of time where they sit(alone.) and think is then carried over to that period of time where they have drive and energy to write. The depression period leads them to deeper thoughts and an exploration of their emotions then, when the depression lifts, they are capable of channeling those thoughts and producing something.
>>7921566
Wow super profound post newbie
>>7919619
Absolutely. Can't site the study but it exists.
>>7921593
Underrated post.
>>7921555
I didn't mean to imply that it did. Nice trips.
>>7919974
Hahaha, enjoy the psych ward.
>>7919619
Just read Kay Redfield Jamison and get it over with.
>>7919721
/thread
>>7923036
I actually read the study that's referenced in this article, and the headline "Writers Are Twice as Likely to Commit Suicide" is incorrect. According to the study, the actual figure is 1.49. Not twice as likely, 1.49 times as likely
>>7921566
>I haven't read the thread yet
stop doing this faggot
