Suicide prior to any meaningful accomplishments is one of the most ignominious ways to go out. I've known a handful of kids who have either offed themselves or overdosed in their late teens or early twenties, their lives having consisted of little more than K-12 schooling and banal, predictable partying. They are scarcely remembered. A few days worth of Facebook tributes and then nothing, because they leave behind nothing to remember. I thank God that this was not my path. The only time that suicide is meaningful is when a legacy is left in its wake. Think Hemingway, Hunter S. Thompson, Kurt Cobain, David Foster Wallace. Due to the sheer breadth and intensity of the creative endeavors these men undertook while living, they continue to influence culture even in death.
The same could be said of any manner of death that follows an unexceptional life, and eventually even those who have had a profound influence over the culture and society of their time will be forgotten.
>>7901436
Not so, because influence echoes
>>7901595
you really think anyone is going to care about dfw or hunter Thompson in a thousand years? how bout ten thousand?
what about a million years?
>>7901616
You missed the point. It's propagation of influence
>>7901350
>The only time that suicide is meaningful
You must be a child yourself to romanticize suicide. People that kill themselves intentionally and wholeheartedly do not do so because it will be meaningful, but because they have endured all that they can take and can't stand it anymore.
>>7901350
I thought you said having costed around 12k and I though, yeah what a waste of money as a parent if your kid kills himself, literally worst than burning money, besides that, you're an idiot
![1421757030961.cached[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HVM19yg.jpg "1421757030961.cached[1].jpg")
>>7901631
>>7901616
>I know nothing about history
>>7901631
I mostly agree with you but I think it's naive to apply this logic to legends like cobain, thompson, dfw, etc...
15. All Things Pass
Yang Chu said: “The memory of things of highest antiquity is faded. Who recollects them? Of the time of the three generations of Emperors something is preserved, but the rest is lost. Of the five rulers something is still known, the rest is only guessed at. Of the events during the time of the three emperors some are veiled in deep obscurity, and some are clear, yet out of a hundred thousand not one is recollected. Of the things of our present life some are heard, others seen, yet not one out of ten thousand is recollected. It is impossible to calculate the number of years elapsed from remote antiquity to the present day. Only from Fw-hsi downwards there are more than three hundred thousand years.
“Every trace of intelligent and stupid men, of the beautiful and ugly, successful and unsuccessful, right and wrong, is effaced. And whether quickly or slowly is the only point of difference.
“If anybody cares for one hour's blame or praise so much that, by torturing his spirit and body, he struggles for a name lasting some hundred years after his death, can the halo of glory revive his dried bones, or give it back the joy of living?”
>>7901350
>Suicide prior to any meaningful accomplishments is one of the most ignominious ways to go out.
>Help /lit/ my mind is haunted and I dont know what to do.
>>7901669
I dunno, can it?
>>7901350
Having a 'legacy' is a spook
Shit thread OP
>>7901630
Where do we draw the line with influence, though? How do you know you're being more influential by having a longer life than a person with a shorter life? Would Rimbaud have been more influential had he lived to be 90?
>>7901675
No. To put it bluntly, you're getting cucked; all the "great" things you've done will be enjoyed by other people, and not only will you not be there to see it, but half of them folks will either completely miss why you did it or bitch about it. And guess what, those people will die too, so not even your name will remain.
Pleasing others to stroke your own ego is not only hypocritical, but also a pointless effort, and OP is being a greedy child for telling to go through hell for his enjoyment.
You sound so juvenile
but i want to kill myself because im incapable of accomplishing anything memorable, or having a worthwhile life in any way.
Everything you claim is meaningful that Hemingway and other did actually doesn't have any meaning in the grand scheme of life, so the infant who dies before his first birthday, the teenager who kills himself at 17, and the most accomplished man you can think of are all equal in the eventual extinction of humanity.
>>7901674
I'm quite well, but nice try Dr. Armchair. You miss one hundred percent of the shots you don't take, I suppose.
>>7901631
people kill themselves for a bunch of reasons, don't be ridiculous.
>>7901820
To think that any of the men mentioned in my original post did not take their legacy into serious consideration before ending their lives is naive.
>>7901831
Nigga had an unfinished book, if he gave a shit about his legacy he would have finished Pale King.
>>7901837
He left his finished pages neatly stacked on his desk for his wife to publish.
>>7901831
bizarre non-sequitur
>>7901831
Does anyone have a link to the thread about the last thing that went through DFW's mind?
>>7901837
Not necessarily, if anything his death is the perfect ending to the book, and his work in general. I dont want to suggest that it was his sole reason for suicide, but it definitely played a part, and his good friend franzen and his biographer dt max think it was the most important reason. Wallace's whole life is so incredibly strange
>>7901814
I didnt say that you were not well only that you had a haunted mind
>>7901946
you know there's nothing wrong with spooks, right?
you have read stirner, right?
>Guy kills himself at my school
>People inevitably post facebook statuses about how suicide is a "permanent solution to a temporary problem"
>mfw they actually believe that
>mfw they think that means suicide is a bad idea
>>7901948
Theres is nothing right with them either, yet this does not stop one from being haunted.
>>7901956
I don't understand this notion. Why do people find it hard to believe that some people are just miserable no matter what? Why do they have to pin it on some kind of "temporary problem" instead of realizing that, for some, life truly is suffering.
>>7901956
>suicide is a "permanent solution to a temporary problem"
Better safe than sorry.
>>7901968
I used to know a girl who would always message me at like 2 am and tell me she wanted to kill herself. if you were to say something like "People will miss you" she would reply with "Why should I have to live for the sake of other people?" so eventually the only thing I could really say to her was "Well, your future self might have regretted killing your current self."
>>7901968
>People will miss you
This is a shitty meme. I don't know what the fuck you expected her to say.
Nothing makes you want to live more than knowing your only reason not to kill yourself is to make other people happy amirite?
>>7901988
I'm autistic so I generally don't know how to talk to people LOL, the only time I ever talked to a girl was when she was trying to kill herself. (she was dating my friend who I later found out abused her)
>>7901350
>They are scarcely remembered. A few days worth of Facebook tributes and then nothing, because they leave behind nothing to remember
>The only time that suicide is meaningful is when a legacy is left in its wake.
man u spooked as fuck
>>7901646
that's not suicide. that's political bargaining. get with the program fa.m
![Rage_Against_The_Machine_-_Same[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UespYLj.jpg "Rage_Against_The_Machine_-_Same[1].jpg")
>>7902016
WE GOTTA TAKE THE POWER BACK
>>7901699
haven't you ever accomplished something great? "going through hell for enjoyment" makes it sound petty, but for me, that enjoyment of victory is the only worthwhile pleasure in the world
>inb4 victory is a spook
>inb4 pleasure is a spook
>>7901968
Because people like to project. I've gotten into a lot of debates about this with people and they usually always come down to "b-but it might get better, b-but its all temporary, b-but you never know!"
It's drivel, does anyone actually think that someone genuinely considering suicide on this level cares about maybes and vague bullshit they've no doubt considered? of course not. They say that to justify it to themselves, to justify their own reasons for living and delude themselves into thinking life is a precious magical thing on a pedestal of ivory that everyone absolutely must want. Trying to talk to normies about this genuinely and honestly is like trying to talk to a brick wall or an evangelist about science. They refuse to hear it and refuse to accept you believe such things.
I wonder if people like that realise they're large selling point for getting away from here.
>>7901961
so you haven't read stirner
poser
>>7902027
>victory is a spook
It lìterally is though. And it's not "for enjoyment", but "for his enjoyment". If you want to gamble with yourself that's alright, but don't go thinking you're something special because others are different.
>>7901968
The truth is that no one is a brick wall of suffering i.e. there is no one who will just suffer no matter what condition they are put in.
This obviously means there are hopeful paths and paths which could make it worse and (probably the majority) that won't make a difference.
Take, for example when I went on a retreat to take ayahuasca, there was a woman who was on the brink of suicide and said she had been for years and that this was a last resort and afterward she said she felt good.
Whether this'll stay I dunno but the point is people who believe life truly is suffering and nothing else necessarily are just as close-minded as the optimists who believe it'll all get better. It's more nuanced than that.
>>7902052
To be fair, you could be projecting yourself. My brother tried to kill himself, was saved at the last minute by someone who walked by and noticed all the exhaust in the garage. Now 2 years later, he's planning on proposing to his girlfriend.
I'm not saying that everyone's in that situation, but to suggest that every time someone's hit rock bottom we should pat them on the back and hand them a noose is ridiculous.
>>7902068
Call me what the posts by the OP are those based on spooks rather than ones property.
>>7902153
>we should pat them on the back and hand them a noose is ridiculous.
kek'd hard
agree with you as well
suicide is brutal and if your immediate reaction is anything but a confused, deep, helpless sympathy, you're a monster.
>>7902161
Beings die all the time, what's so special about them dying by their own hands?
>>7902161
Life is brutal and if your immediate reaction is anything but a confused, deep, helpless sympathy, you're a monster.
>>7902179
its about the societal level. Someone dying by their own hand is a heart-breaking and, to some people, atrocious act.
this isn't about nature or science here
>>7902198
So you're appalled by suicide because others told you to be.
>>7902161
I know it's you KW. I love you.
>>7902179
I'm in the camp who think's if one truly wants to die they should, but you are still a fucking edgelord playing devil's buttbuddy this argument.
>>7902217
>you are still a fucking edgelord playing devil's buttbuddy this argument.
How so? To me people killing themselves (outside of euthanasia) is no different from them dying from a disease. Sure cancer sucks, but there's nothing particularly monstrous or unnatural about it, and there is no set reaction anyone should have about it.
>>7902154
your inability to communicate makes a serviceable substitute for my argument.
gg no re
>>7902153
I'm somewhat projecting, since I myself used to try and be the moralfaggot that would talk people out of their own decisions because of my own beliefs. I've since gained a stronger sense of actual empathy and consideration for all perspectives, which makes it difficult for me to talk to people like that, understanding their arguments but incapable of showing them what I have come to know.
I'm not saying that every angsty teen should be given the means of killing the moment their parents tell them they can't stay out late either. I just think people should try to be more open and even try to delve deeply into these perspectives that society seems to scare us out of considering. That said, I also think voluntary euthanasia should be legal not just for the old and sick but people who just want to opt out after going through the correct analytical procedures. It isn't about just hitting rock bottom, you don't need to always be in an utterly hopeless situation to want to opt out. Maybe it can be because you don't want to keep trying or playing the game of life, could be boredom, could be pain, could be you just see there is nothing left to gain. Nobody should be obligated to live if they don't want to.
Even with all the pro-choice shit aside, maybe it could do some real good for the world if people who don't want to be here don't have to be. I mean we already fucked up the world to the point where it only goes down from here(unless we kill most of our population and replant an impossible amount of trees), so maybe it would be for the best. We don't litter society or planet earth any longer, some losers left behind on Facebook get to analyse our passing and eventually come to the conclusion they're better off for being alive and patting themselves on the back, 4chan has less shitposters, everyone wins.
>>7902261
Well let me fix that for you then
"Call me what you like but the posts made by the views in OP's posts are based on spooks rather than property"
>>7902179
the intensity of the depression and misery that has to occur prior to most suicides is the reason we feel special sympathy.
i've had a lot of bad days in life, like you, like anyone. but i've never once entertained the idea seriously. meanwhile folks who really commit suicide or try to are tormented by a pain that i think must be beyond anything i've ever once felt, and they must feel it day after day after day.
that's brutal m8
>>7902308
some children cry at the slightest bit of pain
some do not
maybe those that kill themselves due to pain are the weakest and most sensitive of us
and we are infinitely better off without them
>>7901595
And echoes fade to silence.
In the end the edifice of man will crumble to nothing, no matter how high you build it.
Echoes don't travel in a vacuum.
>>7902315
you must see humans for what they are, objectively. that involves noticing what they are subjectively, and since we place such a value on our own subjective experience, we must also place value on others', otherwise we're inconsistent and pretending that people are stones, which they are not.
>>7902325
maybe we should value subjective hippy shit less
and focus on what is more efficient/proficient for us as a species
we would be better without our useless drop outs
they bring society down
we do not need their weakness
>>7902345
I assume you are a paragon of utility and fit the criteria of a perfect specimen, definitely not a teenaged redditor
>>7901350
Modern suicide is a triple shot of atheism, slave mentality, and bad conscience or taking pleasure in self-harm. It's basically what happens when man breaks his own spirit, and is as far from meaning as anything
>>7902351
I am flawed
I wish I was not
but if we weed out those more flawed and too weak to survive
we become better as a species
that is what society is
a means of filtering out the trash that is too weak to make it
we should admit we need it and expand upon it
bully them till they remove themselves
or we remove them
we don't need all those tumblr she's trannie and fags
let them diet
>>7902362
>that is what society is
>a means of filtering out the trash that is too weak to make it
i honestly don't believe that you put any thought into this statement. it's easily the most stupid notion of "society" i've ever come across.
/lit/ - Literature
>>7901616
>what about a million years?
How about you, uh, kill yourself?
>>7902179
everyone is born without consenting
everyone dies without consenting
unless
yes
>>7901350
The time you won your town the race
We chaired you through the market-place;
Man and boy stood cheering by,
And home we brought you shoulder-high.
Today, the road all runners come,
Shoulder-high we bring you home,
And set you at your threshold down,
Townsman of a stiller town.
Smart lad, to slip betimes away
From fields where glory does not stay,
And early though the laurel grows
It withers quicker than the rose.
Eyes the shady night has shut
Cannot see the record cut,
And silence sounds no worse than cheers
After earth has stopped the ears.
Now you will not swell the rout
Of lads that wore their honours out,
Runners whom renown outran
And the name died before the man.
So set, before its echoes fade,
The fleet foot on the sill of shade,
And hold to the low lintel up
The still-defended challenge-cup.
And round that early-laurelled head
Will flock to gaze the strengthless dead,
And find unwithered on its curls
The garland briefer than a girl’s.
nah, why?
>>7902308
As someone who has considered suicide (and the guy you responded to), it's not really "pain", but thinking of the future that does it for me; the idea that things will be as they are now forever. I've also found it to be exremely cathartic to think of dying, not bothering anymore with all those things.
>>7902873
I recited this in highschool. I also had a project on Housman and my uncle recited the entirety of Ludlow Beer out of nowhere.
>>7903425
Terence, this is stupid stuff
My b
I just remembered it as the beer poem lol
>>7901350
Short indeed is the longest posthumous fame, and even this only continued by a succession of poor human beings, who will very soon die, and who know not even themselves, much less him who died long ago.
What do you live for in the first place? Nothing satisfies me. Is meaningless the only way it can go? Even if there was a God who made the universe for a goal you could just deny it. What's the point if I'm going to die anyway? What if I lived forever though, what would I do after accomplishing all my goals? Would I just keep making more? Anyone got reading on this? Didn't Schopenhauer say something about how goals just lead to wanting more and more?
>>7903469
You have to unfuck your mind and see things through a paradigm that will allow you to appreciate your accomplishments.
Don't destroy your emotions with reason--welcome feelings pride of pride and mastery and indulge them, don't stifle them.
Now, I now you're a bitter nihilist fuck and you're going to tell me why "I'm wrong", but that's just because you've elevated a particular kind of "truth" above any other value.
So, reorder your value stack and place that "truth" below feeling accomplished.
>inb4 baw baw i can't do dat doe
Well, I guess you're just fucked then. Ta ta
>>7901350
>all that matters is being famous
>>7903555
Checked but wew lad on those assumptions.
So I just go hard as fuck to reach goals? Would a Sisyphean outlook be better?
>>7903555
>>7903204
Same here. I consider suicide every day, and it isn't always about the pain or how much I hate myself or life, it just seems like it would be nice to enter an endless sleep and never wake up. It doesn't always have to be about what you're escaping or spiting, that is simply encouragement, but rather what you're heading towards. Some form of permanent the peace, where you don't have to deal with anything existence offers, where you don't yearn to deal with them or escape them, where you are nothing.
Just because I choose to eat a sandwich does not always mean I am trying to escape a terrible hunger, but instead because I would simply enjoy a sandwich. "But if you wait it out you might get a pizza" you say, "but there are more choices than just a sandwich" you say. And while that may be true, I care not for that, I just want a sandwich.
>>7901350
Wanting a legacy is just another way to show your fear of death. All will be dust soon enough, accept it already
>>7903204
You have depression, and depression is a thing which can often be.... worked through, dealt with, overcome.
There seem to be three categories of ways out:
1. via a religion you accept, practice, convert to
2. via psychiatry
3. via self improvement
Number 3 is a joke for suicidal/sever depression, but you should really consider 2. Number 1 is complicated obviously.
Probably not telling ya anything new but I hope you find a way out anon. I'm rooting for you.
>>7904183
>go to psychiatrist
>"we can only give you options, you need to improve yourself if you want to get better"
It is literally all a joke. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that depression cannot be fixed, you just toughen up, fake a smile and let it devour your soul in the background. All the evidence, arguments and proof that depression is not only something wrong with you but also something that can be fixed permanently have come from neurotypical normies or armchair psychologists who never experienced it.
>>7904888
or u could stop being a bitch and take responsibility for ur life, also stop smoking so much weed u little shit
>>7904896
Where did I ever claim not to have responsibility for my life or smoke weed? I already try self improvement trash, it doesn't help. It's why I went to psychiatry in the first place after years of trying to fix myself. I just got more trash from people playing guessing games to the problem and trying to guide me through performing brain surgery on my emotions despite not knowing how to actually do it themselves.
>>7904919
>people playing guessing games
That's literally all of psychology, and most of psychiatry, they're educated guesses, but guesses nonetheless.
>>7901350
https://reasonabledeath.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/book-a-most-reasonable-death1.pdf
Read the last Chapter, you'll enjoy it.
Patrick Kegan Cochrane went missing today.
>>7901616
Unfortunately the fellow doesn't likely see the point, because of his perspective, most likely a nihilist of sorts.
>>7901350
why would i care if i leave a legacy. ill be dead. should i write a few jangle jangle sing songs before i do it so ppl remember me?
>>7905810
>is gay
>gay
>had no dad
>gay what a surprise with no father figure
>no friends
>bad socially
>abused as a child by father and step father and brother
>lived on food stamps
wonder why this guy did it, i'd love to read 300 more pages of his first year philosophical reasonings and explorations but i'm afraid it'd make me kill myself!
>>7904926
>guesses
>literally all of psychology
aren't you a well read fellow
>not knowing that our planet could get destroyed in nuclear war or other disaster in the next like 100 years and the slate wiped clean
