>science exposed him as a charlatan decades ago
>the humanities still worship him like a god
>>7873040
>the humanities still worship him like a god
Lel. No it doesn't STEMfag. No kindly fuck off to your containment board.
No one takes him seriously except for people like Lacan
the reason we remember freud is for his idea of the unconscious/subconscious mind. there are things going on in our heads even without us being aware of it. this is helpful in studying ideology and how it functions. it's why freud and marx are still remembered, even though they still got a lot of stuff wrong.
>>7873040
but of your "facts" are wrong fucktard
>>7873040
wat? I'm a stemfag and even I know that literally no one takes him seriously. he's just gained a bit of popularity among the unwashed masses due to pop culture but literally no one in academia takes him seriously afaik.
If you follow Science, you'd know that some of his ideas are being proven correct. Freudian Slips are real, projection is real, women are attracted to men that resemble daddy, the unconscious is real, and imprinting is real.
Way to fling accepted wisdom around like the poopie ca-ca it is.
Go fucksome women that resembles a more youthful version ofyour mother.
>>7873144
/thread
>>7873168
The Oedipal Complex is also very real. Not in the literal sense of wanting to kill the father and fuck the mother (you get those too as well) but in the sense of mothers who sabotage and keep their sons dependent upon them for the rest of their lives. A good documentary where you can see this is the documentary about that cartoon artist Crumb. Its intense stuff so be warned
>>7873168
>tfw i've spending a lot of time on the milf and incest threads on /gif/
>this thread
Jesus Christ, you people are pleb as hell. Freud has plenty of contributions to the field of psychology that are still considered valid today. It's funny that everyone screams childhood trauma whenever someone is messed up, but as soon as somebody mentions Freud people go "lel u want to fuck mommy, soccer is just penis-in-vagina substituted by ball-in-goal". I'm not saying Freud was right about everything, but to discredit him completely because you don't agree with some of his concepts is... Oedipal. Pic related.
>>7873168
>tfw my mom was really slim when I was young and got chubbier after I had grown up and I prefer chubbier women
M-mmaybe my Oedipus Complex set in a bit late?
>>7873345
Or you're fucking disgusting and can only allow yourself to be interested in women w/low self esteem, you fearful, pathetic (& room temp) moist towelette.
>>7873144
The unconscious mind doesn't exist.
For my first degree I majored in psychology minored in sociology and everyone fucking hated Freud at my university, he especially triggered the sociology students.
Your a fucking idiot OP.
>>7873189
I fuckin love Crumb dude. Downloaded like 10 volumes of his complete work on libgen. I really recommend reading him. Fascinating guy
>>7873387
>claims to have multiple academic degrees, clearly has some command of English, so it's reasonable to suppose that this is a first language or was essential to study
>types "your" instead of "you're"
>>7873399
post-irony m8 learn to use it
>>7873399
I'm retarded sorry.
It's not true that freud isnt taken seriously by /lit/ guys, take kafka and kafka's works analysis for example. It's also not true that freud is bullshit though
>>7873372
Bro...
>>7873392
I've always wanted to read a psychanalitic analysis of Crumb, I'm pretty much illiterate on the subject but from seeing his work and with whatever little I know about PA, it becomes obvious someone like Freud would have a field day in his comics.
>>7873040
>science exposed him as a charlatan decades ago
''no''
>>7873372
You don't exist
>>7873366
Quit projecting, chubby doesn't mean fat unless you're an insecure beta obsessed by how other people perceive you. Sadly though, chubby chasing is the worst possible fetish to have because the line between chubby and fat is so easy to cross that one day you're fucking a plump Venus in Furs and the next day she's hunted by Ahab.
>>7873465
Look in a mirror.
>>7873040
It's more that people don't like his ideas because they are freaky shit, and quite frankly make people uncomfortable. A lot of what he said is pretty accurate.
>>7873040
The same goes for Karl Marx.
Economics and society showed his theories up to be impractical, but academia still slobbers over his cock.
>>7873527
this
>>7873592
without Marx you would be working 16 hours per day, 7 days per week.
Another complaint is that he doesn't use the scientific method or that he is dogmatic which simply isn't true. When he doesn't have enough data from patients he states it and his methods aren't far on how doctors researched medicine in those days.
>>7873613
>Marx is the sole cause of worker movements
Yeah ok m8. You sound like a Christian saying Jesus is the reason humans have morals
Hey buddy, remember me?
>>7873592
lmao
people are afraid of freud because they know they are really massive perverts deep down inside and people are afraid of marx because they know capitalism is still liable to chronic crises
Of the six leading ideas of the nineteenth century:
evolution
dialectical materialism
psychoanalysis
vulgar relativism
positivism
Only positivism has proven to be completely "safe" for the established social order
>>7873649
wake up sheeple!
>>7873372
True. But the subconscious does. You still have to thank Freud for getting the field going.
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Subconscious_vs_Unconscious_mind
>>7873649
>because they know capitalism is still liable to chronic crises
It in no way follows from this that we have to give a shit what Marx said. Marxists are no better at predicting market crashes than mainstream economists. The only people who predicted the market crashes were unorthodox traders who didn't subscribe to any particular ideology and historians who focus on things like resource availability.
>>7873623
this has to be trolling. /lit/ needs to stop pretending they understand anything about science
>>7873672
And you should stop pretending to have read Freud.
>>7873642
BTFO
>>7873665
Marx's theories surrounding "fictitious" capital in volume 3 of capital perfectly explains 08 and why western economies have been deindustrializing for the past 40 years.
Keynesian and Neoclassical economics can't even explain the growth of East Asian economies (especially idiots like paul krugman) where the most rapid increase of inputs in economic growth is neither capital, labour nor TFP but intermediate products and services...
Mainstream equilibrium analysis has proven to be worthless
>>7873709
I agree with you completely about mainstream equilibrium analysis. But there are Marxist economists and they did not predict 08. Their theories are not as abstract as the mainstream economists', which border on absurdity, but they still don't actually account for historical particularities. If they did then they would have predictive power.
Man it feels good not to be triggered by the shit-tier posts in /lit/ anymore.
>marxist derailing yet another thread
>>>/pol/
>>7873724
I was impressed by the big short too.
>>7873743
I haven't read the Big short. I'm going mostly off of the Galbraiths on this particular topic, but the principle itself doesn't require anything but basic empirical doubt.
>>7873633
well, jesus is ONE reason why people have a CERTAIN SET of morals
im not even christian
>>7873762
As you haven't read Marx.
But for the big short just watch the movie.
>>7873372
We just call it "automatic processes" and we relate it more to cognitive economy than defense.
>>7873759
otto gross, too. outcast like a leper. poor otto gross.
>>7873822
poor lucia. she was "jung and easily freudend."
>>7873323
>the subtle penis a third of the way through
nice
>>7873835
I just wanna cram her schizophrenic holes with my hands.
>>7873592
>Economics and society showed his theories up to be impractical
>>7873926
reminder that there has never been a Communist country and that entertaining the possibility that there will be one is pure speculation
Freud, like Marx or any semi-antiquated yet influential figure, made a lot of wrong calls but he has a lot of ideas still worth paying attention to. A related anecdote attesting to this:
>know this girl whose father was an abusive drug addict who died when she was in middle school
>calls her boyfriend "daddy"
>mfw
>>7873932
>North Korea
>>7873040
He tried to organize Nietzsche's thought into something even scientists could understand. it worked for a while
>>7873040
>mfw listening to Reflections on War and Death audiobook
>mfw psych major
>mfw I have four of Freud's books within just within my eyesight
>mfw Had the help of a psychoanalyst during a time of crisis
>mfw It is my goal in life to become a psychoanalyst
>mfw This thread is taking a big, fat shit on my role model and hero
Why do you gentlemen dislike Freud so much?
>>7873932
>reminder that there has never been a Communist country
thanks
>>7874033
what concepts of Nietzsche ?
>>7874050
because science; the new religion.
>>7874201
His concept of flattery, of encouraging the downgoing and overgoing in people instead of giving them what they want. Freud described it as the difference between aim and object.
>>7874050
>Why do you gentlemen dislike Freud so much?
Probably because he was a Jew. /lit/ seems to dislike Jews in general for some reason.
>>7873040
Science developed drastically, both in rigor at its highest echelons and in its general acceptance. Modern psychologists peer reviewed his work and saw through his blatantly unscientific methods. His appeal today is roughly the same as homeopathy.
People who view his work as universally relevant or 'scientific' by any stretch of the imagination do not embrace the modern definition of science. His deductions are psychological snake oil. He's a quaint storyteller.
Then again, literary theory has always attracted highfaluting 'intellects', those presumably too intelligent to need science.
>>7874310
Modern psychology is undergoing a complete crisis though. Freud is about as empirically sound as almost the entire rest of the field.
>>7874318
'Modern psychology' at least partly includes modern psychiatry and neuroscience, which instituted a nominal shift from talking about feelings to treating severe mental disorders as a physical condition. Scientists may not entirely understand the neurochemical mechanisms behind the brain, but let's face it, you can take a blood test to find out your susceptibility to antidepressants and antipsychotics. Nothing Freud materially accomplished could come close to that.
Saying that psychology is unreliable because it isn't an exact science is like saying a doctor's treatment of concussions/comas is unreliable because their diagnosis method, often using the Glasgow Coma Scale, requires that they ascribe numerical values to the patient based on symptoms and to perform operations on the numbers to arrive at a diagnosis. The Glasgow Coma scale may not suggest the right treatment in every case, but the statistics show that it's way more effective at choosing an appropriate course of action than letting a doctor `eyeball it`. That's why we class people as bipolar, depressed, etc.
I doubt you will be able to find anyone in a science department that considers Freud was a scientist at all. His methodologies fell well outside what we would consider science today. Freud is to neuropsychology what Aristotle is to Physics. That said, both were rather influential in literature.
>>7873168
my parents are white and I have straight up yellow fever
explain that, freudians
>>7874418
Freud also treated his patients with a sense of humanity, treating them as equal human beings. He wasn't just a person to write a script to so pharmaceutical corporations could make more money.
Still, neuroscience is a sound hard science. Citing this hard science, however, does not make psychology sound.
>>7874883
Your parents probably had those Nat geo travel books with the naked Vietnamese and Cambodian chicks.
what did science even tell us about consciousness
>>7873144
Yes, although his theory of the levels of consciousness involved the conscious, the preconscious, and the unconscious.
His theory of development was very influential, and paved the way for psychologists like Erikson (theory of psychosocial development; widely accepted), although the details of the phases (anal, phallic, genital, etc) are hokum.
He essentially invented talk therapy with techniques such as free association, which were never heard of before. Mental health care up until then was giving people sedatives and locking them in straight jackets.
So he was very influential, for much more than just the few reasons I mentioned. although, every pleb who's never actually studied psyc just says
>hurr freud was a retard muh taboo sexual things hee hee
even though that was just one theory
>>7874883
you're a weaboo
>>7874950
yellow fever doesn't imply that, actually. also yellow fever doesn't imply japan.
>>7873729
I just get the blues.
>>7874954
that was a joke friendo
>you might be asperger spectrum tho
>>7874883
>My parents are white, why do I have yellow fever?
You're either 1) reacting against feminism by preferring women reputed to be especially submissive; and/or,
2) You're afraid of women who look like you because you don't actually believe that anyone would love you, so you fetishize something exotic and therefore safe.
My personal guess is 2), but every white guy I knew who loved asian women, even (especially?) left-wing dudes ended up being abusive and controlling, so that's always a possibility.
>>7874010
Nigga you dumb?
>tfw niggas still think norks are commies
>>7874906
You can't just separate neuroscience, psychiatry and psychology. Psychiatrists aren't qualified to use "The Glasgow Coma Scale of neuropsychology" to diagnose a patient. The psychologist studies the patient, issues tests, etc. and tells the psychiatrist what mental conditions the patient has, if any. The psychiatrist, who is certified in psychopharmacology, issues the treatment based on those recommendation. In some cases (by that I mean parts of the US and other first world countries), the psychologist can write perscriptions. In some cases the psychiatrists can make a diagnosis without consulting a psychologist. There *is* some overlap between occupational roles and they frequently consult one another even in situations where those occupational roles don't overlap.
The psychologists performs analyses based on the scientific method and uses statistical analysis to evaluate the outcomes. They aren't looking for a black and white answer, they're looking for general patterns. Freud never used mathematics or the scientific method in his work, he simply went with his gut and later in life he was probably only referred patients who fell into his cookiecutter paradigm. I can not stress enough that the fact that psychologists can't provide certain answers about any one patient or may misdiagnose a patient or may disagree with other psychologists in diagnosis means extremely little. The exact same thing happens in virtually every medical profession. Intern doctors often practice in groups to try to gain a closer consensus because it's not something that comes naturally.
There are legitimate psychological studies that directly contradict Freud's work completely. Have you ever heard of Westermarck?
>In order to avoid inbreeding, humans and other animals develop a strong sexual aversion to individuals with whom they have lived closely in infancy and early childhood (usually biological siblings), a phenomenon called the “Westermarck effect” or negative sexual imprinting.
source: http://beheco.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/05/02/beheco.art028.full
That is exactly the opposite of the Oedipal Complex. It's often been suggested that Freud personally related to his mother sexually because he was almost exclusively cared for during his early childhood by his family's housemaid.
There's absolutely no reason, with today's scientific developments, to take anything that Freud said with more than a *huge* grain of salt.
>>7875072
Psychology is an applied science. The psychologist essential works with patients while relying on scientific data gathered in the field. Psychologists are sort of middle-men in this sense.
It's tough studying human because intrusive experiments cannot be done on them in order to understand their behavior. This is not the same in biology, where certain types of animal testing have been allowed to occur. Psychologists (and other applied practitioners working in similar fields) have always had a hand tied behind their backs in this sense.
>>7874418
He fell for the disease model of mental illness meme. Enjoy being cucked by pharma.
>>7873759
Jung wasn't nice either, banning Freud from the psychanalists society after his nazi buddies told him to
>>7875096
This is what has always irked me about psychology. Alternate ways of perceiving reality, or different ways of living life, should not automatically be seen as an illness. R.D. Laing is one of the few psychiatrists I actually somewhat admire. Lev Vygotsky was a decent psychologist as well.
>>7873323
>/thread
>>7873040
>tfw the uneducated hordes who have at most skimmed a tiny fraction of his published work reject him without any knowledge of his ideas
You're all idiots.
The Future of an Illusion and Civilization and Its Discontents are two excellent book by Freud. Freud was a great writer, very clear and concise for his time (even in translation).
Freud was important for his time, but modern psychology has completely moved on. Modern psychology is actually science while half of Freud is basically literature.
The only people who takes Freud seriously are English professors who use psychoanalysis as an excuse to project whatever their interpretation is onto the text.
>>7874975
I honestly don't understand why you think that's the only 2 options.
I'm not the same anon you're replying to but I've got yellow fever as well and I can say that the origins for such feelings is probably genetic and not psychological. A majority of people tend to prefer people of similar genetic make-up, facial features play a part in this. This is probably what people identify as the Oedipus complex, wanting someone that subconsciously reminds you of mother. For me on the other hand I find southeast Asian women far more attractive than women that remind me of my mother. There is no psychological reason for this that I can find. I had a perfectly decent and normal relationship with my mother until your typical teenage shittiness.
I remember when I was about 10, going to a chinese restaurant with my family and when I saw the waitress I was just struck. Just something about her face and her skin tone was just magical, irresistible for me. That's the only experience I can recall that I definitely point to and say "Aha!" in regards to how I feel.
The perceived submissiveness or whatever of asian women is not something that I even consider or believe. I think men that go after asian women because of that are sick and likely to be disappointed or abusive like you said.
>>7874975
I honestly don't understand why you think that's the only 2 options.
I'm not the same anon you're replying to but I've got yellow fever as well and I can say that the origins for such feelings is probably genetic and not psychological. A majority of people tend to prefer people of similar genetic make-up, facial features play a part in this. This is probably what people identify as the Oedipus complex, wanting someone that subconsciously reminds you of mother. For me on the other hand I find southeast Asian women far more attractive than women that remind me of my mother. There is no psychological reason for this that I can find. I had a perfectly decent and normal relationship with my mother until your typical teenage shittiness.
I remember when I was about 10, going to a chinese restaurant with my family and when I saw the waitress I was just struck. Just something about her face and her skin tone was just magical, irresistible for me. That's the only experience I can recall that I definitely point to and say "Aha!" in regards to how I feel.
Maybe you guys versed in Freud or other psychoanalysts could clarify things for me?
The perceived submissiveness or whatever of asian women is not something that I even consider or believe. I think men that go after asian women because of that are sick and likely to be disappointed or abusive like you said.
>>7873144
BULLSHIT
>lol u were raped and ur afraid of dicks
>I don't feel afraid of dicks
>ur doing it subconsciously lol
>guess I can't disprove or disprove anything
He was extremely damaging to psychology as a developing science, threatened people's lives and fostered a fear of sex and gender divisiveness for years.
>>7875317
absolutely inaccurate
>>7875378
>Maybe you guys versed in Freud or other psychoanalysts could clarify things for me?
Noone?
>science
>>7875096
>Caffeine-Induced Sleep Disorder
>Mathematcis disorder
>Alien Hand Syndrome
kek there are pills for everything.
>>7875072
>directly contradict Freud's work completely
I dont think you've read Freud at all. You just have the pop idea "lol incest".
So go back to your Steven Pinker.
>>7875096
As opposed to the illness model of disease?
Whatever you have, seek treatment immediately.
>>7875378
>>7875497
So you have a memory in a restaurant when you were 10 , now you try free association and try to get older memories, so maybe you could find something.
I like tall girls, and has nothing to do with my mom, it was this cute girl in the kinder garden and some funny chat we had about eating and growing tall (when I was 3). I recovered this nice memory recently.
But scientists would also claim to have exposed humanities in a similar vein so it makes sense
freud was right about one thing. incest is the most popular category of erotica.
>>7875072
>probably only referred patients who fell into his cookiecutter paradigm
>The psychologists performs analyses based on the scientific method and uses statistical analysis to evaluate the outcomes.
Let me tell you a little bit about projection. Projection is a defense mechanism that people use in order to cope with anxiety or potentially harmful stimuli. Harmful stimuli or anxiety may include contradictory ideas. A person, when projecting, attributes to another qualities that they refuse to acknowledge within themselves.
If you take a moment to consider your own position you may find that you are projecting. Psychoanalysis is flexible. Freud had few hard and fast rules. If you read about Freud's patients and his method of treating them then you may find that he was completely unscientific; there is nothing wrong with being unscientific when it come to dealing with people.
You sir, need to realize that you are the one employing the cookiecutter system.
>Freud
>not a charlatan
At the end of 1897 Freud reported on parts of two analytic sessions devoted to the explanation of an anxiety attack suffered by "E." at the age of 10 as he teased a beetle. The word for beetle, Käfer, reminded "E." of that for ladybug, Marienkäfer, which he associated to overhearing that his deceased mother, Marie, had been undecided about her marriage. Freud noted that in Vienna a woman might be referred to as a "beetle," and reported that "E."'s "nurse and first love was a French woman":
Mr E., whom you know, had an anxiety attack at the age of ten when he tried to catch a black beetle, which would not put up with it. The meaning of this attack had thus far remained obscure. Now, dwelling on the theme of "being unable to make up one's mind," he repeated a conversation between his grandmother and his aunt about the marriage of his mother, who at that time was already dead, from which it emerged that she had not been able to make up her mind for quite some time; then he suddenly came up with the black beetle, which he had not mentioned for months, and from that to ladybug [Marienkäfer] (his mother's name was Marie); then he laughed out loud and inadequately explained his laughter by saying that zoologists call this beetle septem punctata or the equivalent, according to the number of dots, although it is always the same animal. Then we broke off and the next time he told me that before the session the meaning of the beetle [Käfer] had occurred to him, namely, que faire? = being unable to make up one's mind. Meschugge!
>>7876296
>Mathematics Disorder
The funny thing is we once studied an idea similar to this in a college course I was taking. The disorder was labelled "math anxiety." The professor argued that it was an inherited trait. When I asked her how people were testing for this so-called inherited trait, she responded that they were given a psychological exam. I then told her that if something is an inherited trait, then that means you have to trace it back to genetics. How can you say something is inherited by taking a subjective psychological exam?
Needless to say, she didn't like me too much after that.
>>7875072
This is completely inaccurate regarding the Westermarck effect. It states that people generally do not develop sexual attraction to other children who they knew as children themselves. Men tend to marry women who resemble their mothers (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7593336.stm), so the theory of the Oedipus complex is empirically supported.
>>7873729
Just had the same exact thought. Was going to yell at the autists but thought better of it. The strange thing is in a way their repetitiveness will drown out and 'win' spaces on the net. The net belongs to the analytics/autists in a way we grasp but cannot convey to them. In essence the whole of the dialogue with analytics/autists/The Brish is that of "Yes, but" except they never can possibly comprehend the "but", consciously or unconsciously.
wow lit is really on a role today with stale, unsubstantiated, outdated, meaningless, dogmatic claims
>>7876957
just imagine they're all saying april fools at the end of each post.
>>7874975
This is actually very true
>>7875101
Pretty sure he hated Nazi's though.
>>they think literary theory, being qualitative evaluation of the reception of texts, is anything less than psychology in its own right, given that every sense perception is an interpretation of the text presented by everyday life
>>7873323
psychology is for people too dumb for med school
>>7877017
Shut up Tyrone
