I had to read all this shit for a class, am I a liberal yet?
>>7872758
No that takes reading socialist thought and finally understanding that all world conflicts have been over unfair distribution of resources taken by the rich and then used to bribe the masses into doing what they want, comvining them that bullshit like race matters more than class
>>7872758
Even worse: you're a pleb
![51SLe-R1wwL._SX325_BO1,204,203,200_[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TfClyHG.jpg "51SLe-R1wwL._SX325_BO1,204,203,200_[1].jpg")
>>7872768
Are these considered pleb tier by /lit/ folks? I think we should have read pic related just to make the class a little more objective.
>>7872758
nah - you just go to shit school anon.
>>7872764
>implying that present day liberalism has anything to do with anything other than pathetic attempts to feel like a good person by calling everything racist and misogynist
Make America Great Again, chumps
>>7872814
I just don't understand. how can a place like /lit/ which I assume to have more critical thinking capabilities than /pol/, actually and unironically look up to this dude?
Before everyone leaps to call me a libcuck or whatever it is that trumpfags say, I need to clarify that I am not even american and could not give less of a shit about this tug of war between left wing liberalism and right wing conservatism.
I just fail to fathom how people who visit this board can be swayed by his stupidity. Even as a dispassionate, neutral, uninvested outside observer, it is so apparent to me that this guy is such a crass moron.
How can the same people admire trump and dfw? I just don't understand.
Speaking of, I just got assigned Things Fall Apart. What did you guys think of it?
>>7873096
he's actually the least dangerous of the whole bunch, except for Bernie Sanders but he's already out. I'm not even joking here, if you actually had any critical thinking capabilities yourself you'd know this
>>7873104
What do you think of it so far?
>>7873138
of course he's less toxic than most other republican canidates and probably even hillary. american elections this time seem like quite the shitfest.
Sanders seems like a decent dude with good policies. I can see why american are so wary of them. They really don't like anything associated with socialism or communism (which are words used in pejorative sense in american culture: "filthy commie" etc). people don't like being taxed either and i understand that.
But this oldfag seems like fucking socrates compared to trump imo. you might as well elect nicki minaj next elections.
>>7873224
Haven't cracked it, was seeing how y'all liked it. :)
>>7873243
Socialism just isn't America, regardless of whether or not it would make Americans "happier" it's just not what we are about as a culture. America is about being able to go to Walmart at 3 AM and buy a can of fucking Pringles. America is about living out in the country so you can walk around naked outside, and shoot fireworks and smoke weed. America is about driving Ford trucks and listening to heavy metal, or racist country music. America is about eating Chinese food made by Mexicans every day, and jerking off to anime. America is about being an alcoholic and shitposting on 4chan every day. America is about small government. Authoritarian lefties get the fuck out.
>>7873266
that seems like a trite, oversimplified, mawkish idea of something as complex as a state desu.
sounds exactly like something a redneck as depicted in pop culture would say.
to be honest, I'm not entirely sure if you're unironically upholding the values you described in your post or offering a satirical critique. i've seen enough conservative debate on similar threads to convince me that it could be either.
but i'd like to know how one deludes him/herself into thinking that some of the economic socialist policies threaten an american's freedom to go out and buy pringles or listen to whatever music or eat whatever takeout.
>>7873096
Trump eviscerates the false sincerity of his opponents, who are always phony plastic reptilians that nobody trusts or particularly likes. He pulls the man out from behind the curtain by his ear and then pantses him on national television.
If you're apathetic toward mainstream politics and don't like the increasingly nutty direction American progressives have been slipping toward over the past several years, Trump is a breath of fresh air. If you're uncomfortable with the demographic changes the country is undergoing and leftist attempts to silence any criticism of unfiltered and illegal mass immigration, he might be your last hope to save white America from globalists and progressives.
I don't believe a single word he says, I don't think he can enact most of his proposals, and his attempts at pandering are even more transparent than Hillary's (which is really saying something), but he's undeniably entertaining to watch, and often quite funny.
It's good you mention DFW because he basically predicted Trump's rise with his President Johnny Gentle character in Infinite Jest. A slimy lounge singer turned president because of his gruff no-holds-barred style and vague promises to "clean up the country." Sound familiar?
Anyways I'm not going to vote in this election. Trump should never have the nuclear codes but I can't stomach voting Hillary, who's going to win anyways. As long as I'm sitting on the sidelines though, I'm going to enjoy the show.
>>7873096
>crass moron
His personality is irrelevant. His policies are what matter. All I want is for people to respect immigration laws when they enter a country. Allowing 11 or twelve million (million!) illegal immigrants into your country is crass and moronic. Protecting your borders is just a basic principle of sovereignty. I don't care if Trump is the devil himself as long as he kicks out those illegals. It offends my sense of justice to see citizenship awarded on a sort of first come first serve basis to however is ruthless and clever enough to evade the border police. Why should Mexicans get preferential immigration status because they happen to be right next door? See also: Germany.
>>7873291
Hillary will get amnesty and probably start a massive war somewhere to satisfy her penis envy.
You and I will get drafted and die on some godforsaken battlefield half the globe away while Hillobitch cackles and our home country is flooded with Mexican peasants willing to work for cents an hour and Muslim refugees who periodically blow up our families standing in line at the grocery store.
>>7873291
fair enough. you made some relevant points. but..
>eviscerates false sincerity of his opponents.. pantses him on national telivision
through what? penis jokes? mudslinging? from what I''ve heard and read, his attacks have been fairly cheap or lowbrow. instead of eviscerating the opponent's facade through a critique of the opponent's manifesto or agenda, doing that through personal attacks doesn't merit too much admiration imo.
>trump is a breath of fresh air
is sanders facing the backlash from the leftist overdose? he seems like a pretty "honest" person desu if that's what you're looking for.
>but he's undeniably entertaining to watch, and often quite funny.
wat. you're choosing your fucking president. not your local town comedian. dafuq is wrong with you? socrates was right in his contempt of the layman being swayed by charlatans and sophists who can please crowds through appealing speech.
>not going to vote?
that seems quite fatalist. If I were you, I'd at least make the effort to vote for the least bad character out there which I assume to be sanders.
>>7873138
"except for Bernie Sanders" wtf are you talking about. why is the antiwar New Dealer dangerous?
>>7873298
>it's unjust if you can just come over but not if you're born here
>>7873298
>personality is irrelevant
maybe. but it's pretty fucking important to ensure that you don't vote in a moron as your president. because a moron will make moronic decisions that don't make sense and are not viable. and it will reflect in policy. like his "solution" to the immigrant problem. of building and maintaining a wall to stop the immigrants. a high school student would laugh at the stupidity of that idea. and you intend to vote that person as your president.
>>7873329
Wall works for other countries.
>>7873298
Does the American constitution give the federal government the power to say who is and isn't a citizen? Seriously I've never read it, I thought the USA was originally support liberal about immigration and essentially let anybody in
>>7873329
So you think you're smarter than Hadrian and Trajan? That's a bold claim, kiddo.
>>7873318
Are you saying no one should be able to inherit anything? My ancestors built this country and I should be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor. It's not my fault that Mexico has been ruled by lazy corrupt incompetents who left their Mestizo brats nothing to live on.
By your logic Mexicans are horribly over-privileged - they were lucky enough to be born in a country that shares a long, porous, border with a much richer country. Why not give other ethnicities a fair shot instead of handing out free citizenship to to the most aggressive borderjumpers?
>>7873329
I don't get how a billionaire can be a moron. Nobody gets that rich through luck and connections alone.
>>7873363
>I don't get how a billionaire can be a moron. Nobody gets that rich through luck and connections alone.
Nevermind the fact that he's the Republican front-runner despite the media and the Republican establishment doing their best to destroy his campaign for months. If he's such a moron, I bet any of these geniuses could take over the country if they just rolled up their sleeves for a week.
>>7873363
>Are you saying no one should be able to inherit anything?
I'm saying that if you're so concerned about justice it should really concern you that you just happened to be born in a rich country without having done anything to earn it.
>It's not my fault that Mexico has been ruled by lazy corrupt incompetents who left their Mestizo brats nothing to live on.
not the immigrant's fault either.
>>7873383
>I'm saying that if you're so concerned about justice it should really concern you that you just happened to be born in a rich country without having done anything to earn it.
Such a stupid, banal argument, I've heard it from dozens of people. Get this, friendo: you're not an accident of fate whose birthplace was defined by chance, you're the product of a long line of people reproducing themselves over millions of years, culminating in your mother giving birth to you when she was older than 30 (how else could you be so autistic?).
>>7873411
You should realize that this doesnt touch my argument at all
>>7873313
>through what? penis jokes? mudslinging? from what I''ve heard and read, his attacks have been fairly cheap or lowbrow. instead of eviscerating the opponent's facade through a critique of the opponent's manifesto or agenda, doing that through personal attacks doesn't merit too much admiration imo.
I genuinely don't care about a public critique of their platforms. I have my own opinions on the GOP's ideas (which are mostly negative), and I know that the vast majority of both leftists and rightists don't agree with me and the policies I would prefer. Rather than see somebody advance my political ideology, which will probably never come into reality unless there is some sort of global economic collapse, I would rather see somebody mock and insult my opponents who are rehearsed and polished for television screens and promote ideas I dislike. If I can't see anybody supporting my politics, I can at least appreciate the mockery of the opposition.
>is sanders facing the backlash from the leftist overdose? he seems like a pretty "honest" person desu if that's what you're looking for.
"Honesty" isn't that important to me, policies are. I am not opposed to democratic socialist policies, provided that there exists a relatively homogeneous and unified national culture inside a country with enforced borders, strong immigration control, and the acknowledgement of the fact that unfettered globalism promotes the destruction of the nation and its social welfare. I don't think the most expensive social programs in the world will work with porous borders and NATO to pay for.
Sanders seems like a nice guy but he's an idealist, and a pretty naive one at that. Nothing he's suggesting is going to make it through congress, I don't quite see how he intends to pay for many of his extremely expensive proposals, and at the end of the day, he's leading the United States toward dangerously multicultural minority-pandering country, which I prefer not to see.
>wat. you're choosing your fucking president. not your local town comedian. dafuq is wrong with you? socrates was right in his contempt of the layman being swayed by charlatans and sophists who can please crowds through appealing speech.
Spare me the smug condescension please. I don't think I'd say I'm "swayed" by Donald Trump; I've already told you I'm not giving him my vote. But if you think Bernie is the Socrates of the 2016 presidential elections, you are sadly mistaken, because he not only panders just as much as the rest but he is not a particularly rigorous thinker. Voting for somebody because they're authentic in their destructive politics is a pisspoor reason to vote for somebody, and he's not even very authentic! Just look how he totally swiveled on gun control and his previous thoughts on open borders. He's a politician like the rest, giving empty promises to naive young people, and you will probably be very disappointed when his head finally dips beneath water in the coming weeks.
>>7873434
You inherit everything from your parents, including place of birth.
If that's injust, then so are all differences between people, as they're ultimately determined by genes.
>>7873443
What about Trump's policy on weed or lowering taxes for big business? Or his "extremely expensive proposals"?
>>7873476
>You inherit everything from your parents, including place of birth.
>If that's injust, then so are all differences between people
If that's unjust, then so is the fact that you're born just next door to a rich country. oh right, that's exactly what you said
>>7873487
>What about Trump's policy on weed
Fuck off degenerate. Marijuana should be outlawed.
>>7873313
do you by chance play tf2
>>7873495
>MUH FREEDOM
...until it's about something "degenerate." What if I said guns are degenerate, or books? Should they be outlawed? Also, you didn't answer the other policies I brought up.
>>7872758
Someone in another forum was discussing Trump and said Medicare was socialist. Da fuq.
>>7873507
Some freedoms need to be limited because you idiots don't know what's good for you.
>>7873283
america will never accept universal tax-funded healthcare until every single baby boomer is dead. that entire generation is the cause of all our problems.
>>7873507
u realize u r being memed, rite?
>>7873313
Every so often Trump's stupidity actually contributes to this. He straight up called the republicans retards for not negotiating with the dems, I honestly believe he'll find a way to retroactively punish Wall Street, and he's against free trade. After being lied to for the last umpteen elections I think many Americans would rather have a proper agent of chaos in power instead of another liar who will continue to hand the country to bankers.
>>7873517
That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Tell me, why should I not have the freedom to put what I want in my body? Especially something that does very little harm, especially compared to things like alcohol which are legal.
>>7873313
i asked if you play tf2 because there was a non-american guy on a tf2 forum with extremely similar typing characteristics as yours like listing the arguments one after another, cherry picking, and being condescending. he also said stuff like wat and dafuq, something i've rarely seen recently.
he also seemed like a sjw so i wouldn't doubt he would be vehemently against trump
>>7873542
Wrong bongbrain, pot is incredibly dangerous because it makes you retarded, as evidenced by your posts.
Can I get some books on liberalism/neoliberalism/neoliberal capitalism? I keep seeing those buzzwords spewed out.
>>7873493
I'm saying that's not injust. If you think it is, your idea of justice is absurd and totally impracticable.
>>7873542
Because your actions have consequences and affect the world around you. Weed makes you incompetent, and the people who say it doesn't are either liars or outliers.
>>7873383
I guess I could be sympathetic to the argument that the fact that there are rich people and poor people is unjust. It's always been that way though. I don't understand why countries like the United States and Germany need to be punished for this injustice by being forced to take care of millions upon millions of poor migrants.
And make no mistake, it is a punishment. Illegal immigration hurts the poorest Americans the most by depressing their wages. America has more than enough cheap labor in the form of its own citizens. Economists and the Bureau of Labor have been telling us this for twenty years. Illegals don't pay income taxes, yet use social services like hospitals and schools (which have to scramble to find ESL teachers, btw). The federal government loses 100 billion dollars every year because of costs incurred by illegals that can never be recouped. Federal prisons are full of illegal immigrants and 150 Americans are murdered every year by illegal immigrants.
There are only two groups of people that benefit from illegal immigration: employers and native Mexicans. Employers love the cheap labor as if minimum wage wasn't already low enough. The Mexican economy depends on remittances from Mexicans working in the US. Remittances are Mexico's second biggest source of revenue after oil and gas. Why would they deny this source of free money by actually policing their citizens? Why would moneyed interest establishment conservatives do anything that would hurt their business interests?
If there has been an injustice, recompense needs to be assigned in a court, perhaps in the UN. Swarms of migrants cutting the border line isn't any more just than a lynching.
>>7873658
>are either liars or outliers
No true scotsman. Millions of well adjusted people smoke weed, stoners are a vocal minority.
>>7873495
Nigger trying to outlaw weed is about as effective as outlawing guns. People will still get them both, unless we clamp down and really push this police state business we've been gradually shifting toward.
>>7874560
Building a Southern border could lessen such easy drug deals between America and Mexico. Improve productivity and the country as a result.
>>7873544
no. I don't participate in any tf2 forum.
>cherry picking
>condescending
how am I being either? Also, I stated above that I don't really care about left wing liberalism or right wing conservatism.
I really don't understand what problem you had with my arguments or what I wrote.
link to the said guy's post?
>>7874560
that's not the point of weed being illegal.
The reason it is illegal is so police can get a search warrant on you.
>>7873651
>I'm saying that's not injust
that's not true:
> It offends my sense of justice to see citizenship awarded on a sort of first come first serve basis to however is ruthless and clever enough to evade the border police. Why should Mexicans get preferential immigration status because they happen to be right next door?
>>7873544
which forum?
>>7873283
>state
>complex
