Hedonism
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Are we living in a world of hedonists who lack any sort of foresight or is hedonism itself the problem? How important is foresight when it comes to the practical application of hedonism? Is hedonism a "valid" philosophy as long as the person practicing it has enough foresight?
Hedonism is the cancer of the soul.
>>7871535
Not really an answer to my question but thanks anyway I guess.
Hendonism is the problem. Even if you have foresight you will be craving fore something that you can't fulfill. You can see the problem coming but you can't avoid it.
>>7871609
> Even if you have foresight you will be craving fore something that you can't fulfill
Why would you be craving for something that you can't fulfill? What would you be craving for?
philosophy is gay.
>>7871616
A hedonist can never be fulfilled. No amount of "mindfulness" will get you of the cartwheel of wanting more and more.
>>7871532
Nigga, you understand what hedonism mean?
I always thought about hedonism as the most coherent thing to human life.
Looking for pleasure in every single moment of our life will make life itself happy.
Hedonism doesn't really need any kind of foresight, as our life it's all about joy, and joy comes from fulfilling our desires and instinctive pleasures, which means that every consequence resulted from following hedonism will build up our happiness.
There's a problem: we all live with each other, which means that our path to happiness could really hurt (or maybe not) other people.
What should I do? Should I search for happiness considering its effects on other people or should I simply ignore them?
If you're interested, Horace based lot of it's work on this problem, getting to a mediated solution: joy is basically hedonism applied to every single moment (ignoring both past and future), looking for pleasure in every little thing that we own and avoiding envy towards other people.
So, he's just telling us to find pleasure in what we have, to find balance. Just a lite version of hedonism.
>>7871532
>Is hedonism a "valid" philosophy as long as the person practicing it has enough foresight?
the dhamma is about the failure of hedonism. what is hedonism ?
-to have pleasures
-to have pains
-to fancy pleasures
-to hate pains
- fancy pleasures and hate pains to the point of taking them seriously, in saying that they matter.
because you take seriously what you feel, your deliriums form your mind and your consciousness. you choose to care about all this, about what you think and feel, to the point that you choose to identify with all this.
once you understand that, in order to be happy, there is no point in clinging to your desires which are always fading, and uncontrollable, once you understand that no matter your behavior, there will never ever be a fix to your discomfort nor to your boredom, you dive deeper and deeper into a state of of stillness which installs equanimity+compassion (these words are the usual words describing the states).
for people saying that hedonism is relevant,
>life=what you feel+what you think+what you expect from your desires from what you feel and think
therefore,
>grade your desires
and
>non acting on your favorite desires = non life = death
hedonism is not an effective doctrine to be happy. Hedonists believe that you literally die if you ''do not think nor do feel''. They have faith that 'no moving' is death.
of course, doing the opposite brings you a better life:
>perpetual evanescence and lack of control of what you think and feel, therefore cannot be taken seriously (to be happy) => stay still towards what you think and feel.
Once you try to reach stillness, you are more equanimous and benevolent.
Of course Hedonism is natural in man, but we no longer live in a natural state where we need to survive. We like fat food because in a natural state this is rare to get and we hate bitter food like lemonds because eating them will make you weaker. But nowadays thats no longer true. We need to compensate our lives and evolve.
We no longer need hedonism.
>>7871532
Hedonism is only a problem if the object of pleasure/joy is misplaced. The problem is that too many people seek unending pleasure in temporal, worthless things.
>tfw christian hedonism
>>7871532
Any liberalism is the doctrine of rendering hedonism moral, for the masses, which implies having institutions supporting this doctrine. Once you turn the leisure into an institution, you get at least the entertainment industry with idols to promote it.
The problem of hedonism is that explicit hedonism is frowned upon, because explicit hedonism reminds people that the are animals (which sucks for the hedonists, because any hedonist takes pleasures in thinking that he is less hedonistic than what he is; the hedonist likes to think that he is an animal only a small amount of time (because he loves violating some dummy rules (rules that he invented himself to come even more when he violates them ---but if you violate them constantly, you get bored. Boredom is the ultimate enemy of the hedonist)).
So the you must drape hedonism. Into what ?
This means, in liberal doctrines, that you explicitly blend hedonism, which is always personal, egotistic, with a manifest lack of narcissism (without destroying the egotism!).
the lack of narcissism is fake of course: it is the whole point.
This is why celebrities talk about children in africa and other events that women love to dwell on (women are the most hedonistic creatures on earth, with men feeding their hedonism, because men are too impotent to do anything else in their life).
This is how Leo get his oscar. the sure way to get an oscar is to be famously involved into some trendy cause and to act.
in passing, Narcissism is not egotism. Narcissism means that you limit your definition of self to what you are conscious. Egotism is that you take seriously what you feel and think, to the point of claiming that the notion of self makes sense and deciding to think, speak, act on this. Of course, you seek pleasant thoughts, words, actions and avoid unpleasing ones.
>>7871639
I understand how Buddhism is effective for those who live by a doctrine of hedonism and fail to find happiness, but does it allow people to truly thrive and experience pure joy? To me, Buddhism seems like a very defensive philosophy, perfect for those who are faced with physical suffering but not ideal for those who have more existential suffering. The Buddhist meditator learns to separate him/herself from his emotions, learns that they are simply passing and don't represent the 'self', learns that you can train yourself not to judge or react to these emotions, and so on. But what about pleasure? Doesn't this path simply lead to indifference and anhedonia? It did for me anyway.
Genuinely interested in this, because I'm doing a master's in psychology and doing a project based on several Buddhist concepts (e.g. mindfulness, acceptance). The general feeling in the literature is that Buddhism = the solution to everything, but I sometimes wonder whether our western hedonism can actually lead to a better life, provided you are one of the lucky few who is not thwarted in their pursuit of pleasure.
>>7871616
The BBC
>>7871532
Hedonism itself is the problem.
Hedonism means you think it's your right to exist and enjoy yourself while you are living, in spite of future consequences or the state of humanity.
The greatest minds in the world were not hedonists, they knew life was an everlasting experience of pain and suffering and the only thing you can do is work at a craft earnestly in spite of it.
>>7871723
Somebody hasn't read City of God
>in the world not of it
>belonging to the city of flesh
shiggy dig
>>7871532
Do you mean ethical hedonism, or the pleb colloquial definition? If the former, I find hedonistic act utilitarianism to be the most plausible ethic.
>>7871532
>Are we living in a world of hedonists who lack any sort of foresight or is hedonism itself the problem
yes, most definitely
>How important is foresight when it comes to the practical application of hedonism
that is always an important thing, without foresight, you are nothing but blind
>Is hedonism a "valid" philosophy as long as the person practicing it has enough foresight
yes tho hedonism can not be valid when it is in its pure form, there needs to be some other kind of philosophy applied with it
>>7872441
Plausible but not practical. I used to believe in utilitarianism until I realized I'd have to be a fucking saint if I wanted to avoid being a hypocrite.
>>7872483
Being a hypocrite never much bothered me, I think it's rather easy to get away with it by recognising that humans are very flawed things, and it would be foolish to expect them to be perfectly moral. I just try to do what seems feasible.
>>7872483
Honestly, I think utilitarianism doesn't really require you to be a saint. In fact, you'd have to be a dick sometimes, because everything, including people, are just factors in an equation. If you're really living out pure utilitarianism, you're going to be fucking individuals over.
One of the philosophies I've noticed being adopted by a lot of people these days is a sort of compassionate hedonism, usually summed up by something along the lines of "do whatever makes you happy, so long as it doesn't interfere with someone else doing what makes them happy".
Is this overly simplistic? Or is that more along the lines of what
>>7872441
is saying, a more practical approach to dealing with human nature by placing nothing but the most necessary constraints on it? Are those constraints even necessary? Are there cases in which interfering with someone else's pursuit of happiness is justifiable?
>>7871644
>Of course Hedonism is natural in man
wew
Oh brave new world
>>7872598
>usually summed up by something along the lines of "do whatever makes you happy, so long as it doesn't interfere with someone else doing what makes them happy".
this is the liberal doctrines, but they turn happy into ''being free''.
after centuries of liberals and libertarians, you can see that it fails
the real question concerning hedonism is why people desire certain things. why place so much ideological importance on the concept of pleasure?
>>7871532
I think that this image sums it all up.
>>7874053
Because Late Capitalism requires a docile consumer class; Westerners have essentially been born and bred to be hedonists.
>>7874067
GOLD STAR
>>7874067
Hedonistic escapists tbqh senpai
inb4
>everything is escapism
>>7871532
Hedonism and foresight are opposing forces. If you're not a hedonist, you're a hedonist with foresight.
Intellectually and emotionally mature adults are hedonists with foresight. Children are hedonists. I do think we live in a culture with marketing that cultivates impulsive behavior. It helps sell shit. But it also leads to other societal issues but that's another discussion.
>>7871532
Post your lips.
>>7871532
hedonism=/=drugs, sex, gluttony
you're all fucking retarded.
>>7874692
/lit/ had truly fallen to the plebs.
>>7874692
We have a wise undergraduate here.
>implying everyone isn't a hedonist in denial
>>7871532
Hedonism when combined with weakness is a problem, because it starts to become destructive. There are plenty of hedonists who are strong characters individually. They live by honorable concepts. Then there are the masses of hedonists who make up the most of our society. We're on the wrong side of fate unfortunately.
>>7871563
Then: No.
