Why do people say this is like a book but just in a form of a TV show?
Or that it's so complex it rivals so many books from the western canon and shit.
I just watched the first two season and it was boring as fuck. Don't see what's so complex about it or why it deserves to be called a novel in TV form or some shit...?
It's not complex at all but it's one hundred times better than most other tv-shows so plebs hail it as a masterpiece.
The reality is of course that it can't compete with high quality films or literature.
>>7831827
the large ensemble cast with new characters every season (and the show charactarises and develops these characters despite the sheer amount of them), the way it plays like a realist novel, the tragic deaths which characters bring on themselves, the way theres no good vs bad guys, theres good and bad guys on both sides, the wide array of social topics it covers, every character is in some way fucked, either by the police buerocracy, or by the completely ruthless streets of baltimore. later seasons also cover politics, the school system and journalists, and there's never an easy answer.
id say its pretty good.
>>7831827
They're idiots who don't read but want to pretend they do.
It's good and definitely one of the smarter shows out there, a little something for the intellectual crowd. But anyone who compares it to a book is some moron who doesn't understand why it's so good to begin with.
It's the only TV show that approaches the depth of literature.
It only starts getting good at season three. The first two seasons were boring.
>I'll go as far as making an entire unit of policemen dedicated to investigating some irrelevant guy just because he took my stained glass window spot at the church
So uhh, The Wire is such a realistic show!
>we're shutting down major crimes
>oh, no you're up again
>changed our minds, we're shutting you down again
>wait, wait, no, you're still up
>oh wait, we're shutting you down this time for real
>time to get the major crimes unit back
>times to shut you down again
For five fucking seasons. Such a borefest.
>>7831831
>It's not complex at all but it's one hundred times better than most other tv-shows
This, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king and so on.
Is this better than Breaking Bad?
>>7831827
The way they show how complex institutions fail because of the personal incentives of the individuals within them is at least worthy of praise. The gangster organizations are some of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen on television though. Stringer Bell? Marlo? fucking Omar? It's absurd.
The fifth season is complete garbage. The other ones at least show how societies work to a certain degree, which is not easy.
>>7832012
>Is this better than Breaking Bad?
Absolutely.
>>7831907
>petty people in high places are unrealistic
wew laddie
The Wire is good but not very /lit/.
The Sopranos, Deadwood and Mad Men are /lit/core.
>>7831906
Kieslowski's Dekalog and Edgar Reitz' Heimat are both better and more literary
>>7831827
>boring as fuck
nigga please ..watch again and this time put your fleshlight away
>>7832227
>Heimat
Been meaning to get into this for the last 5 years or more, but I read that they're still filming it or something.
>rivals so many books from the western canon
don't know about that, but it's some real good writing
sopranos masterrace
>>7831827
>boring as fuck
Plebeian scum.
That said, comparing it to literature makes little sense.
>>7831907
It's based on real characters, and partially real cases, so yes, it is realistic.
Sarcasm doesn't suit you well. It makes you seem like a sullen teenager.
>>7832040
Omar is based on a real person. Then again, reality is itself absurd, so sure.
The people in this thread who seem to believe 'boring' is a valid criticism of The Wire are intellectually challenged hyperplebs. Ivy schools have done courses on it.
>>7831831
>>7831900
>>7831945
>>7832287
I like how all you sheep are still following the old model of film and lit>tv.
Sure it used to be that way, but it's not that way anymore. TV just sucked at first, so that's the rep it got, and faux patricians still spout that mindlessly. But let's remember that faux patricians shit on film at first, cause films sucked for a while, too. Then, like tv eventually did, they found their way, and the faux-patricians who foolishly still clung to that obsolete model died off.
In 50 years when you fags die off, no one will be saying it anymore.
>>7831906
>It only starts getting good at season three. The first two seasons were boring.
Such a PLEB!
>>7832040
>le fifth season is garbage may-may
>mcnulty doing what he did at the end of episode 1 and the story that unfolds from it is unrealistic
kek, you don't think that shit happens in real life?
Also, if realism is an issue, than I would avoid season 3. Hamsterdam was the biggest load of bullshit ever, but still just as enjoyable if you're not an autist
>>7832313
Why don't you recommend some television shows on par with the top tier literary classics then, friend?
I don't want television to be shit, it's just that I can't find anything that is really high level.
>>7832330
First tell me what literature you consider top-tier?
I'm gonna guess it's stuff you have been told to like, and it has this old-timey quality to it that you like but you can't really say WHY the book is good so you cling to mostly that and regurgitating the opinions of literary analysts.
Then, when any show fails to have that arbitrary quality to it, you think it's pleb-tier, when in reality, YOU'RE the pleb.
>>7832330
>judging television on the same criteria you judge literature
Aka how not to understand art 101
>>7832330
you ain't 'really high level', friend. better recognize motherfucker
>>7832347
>all this strawmanning in advance just so you have something to hide behind when you say breaking bad is on par with james joyce
>>7832396
>still thinking in terms of empty comparisons
>>7832409
I'm not the lad saying that television started out shitty but has now "found its way" and then proceeding not to name any examples of television that has found its way.
>>7832416
No, but that guy pointed out a flaw in your thinking which you continue to demonstrate: the idea that television must be 'literary' to be quality
The wire is like if you combined Shakespeare's plays with Tolstoy's realism and put it on TV. It's a masterpiece. Best series ever made. That scene where stringer and Avon are on the balcony reminiscing about old times after they have both plotted to betray each other... Perfection.
>>7831827
Who, or what, did Wallace's character represent?
Why was there a poster of 2-Pac on the wall whenhe was shot?
Who was more exemplary of manhood, Wallace, or Bodie & Poot?
>>7831827
It's not complex at all, it's pretty straightforward and easy to follow. People just confuse the word "complex" with "it has a lot of characters".
Besides, most of those characters stick for one season and one season only, so not that many characters per season.
>>7832040
>>7831907
Don't forget Brother Mouzone, easily the worst TV character of all time. So out of place and not realistic at all.
>A NIGGER WITH A LIBRARY CARD!
>YOUR HOMOPHOBIA IS SO VISCERAL! XD
Who fucking talks like that?
>>7832347
>First tell me what literature you consider top-tier?
Infinite Jest
2666
anything by Cormac McCarthy
Now tell me.
>>7832313
>I like how all you sheep are still following the old model of film and lit>tv.
Actually, I don't think it's unfair to think this way still. Maybe good shows, ones which are on par with the best film, exist, but they are much more rare than good films are.
Shows are constantly fighting against filler. They are more often than not poorly paced and full of dud episodes. I think it's because most stories don't fit neatly into the format of having a cliffhanger every episode, but properly structured tv often requires that.
I'm interested in watching more tv shows, but there probably aren't more than 20 which are actually as strong as a good film, and there probably aren't more than 5 which are american.
>>7832579
You've never encountered a Nation of Islam member before in your life, have you?
>>7832601
But Brother Mouzone is a fucking hitman who supposedly grew up in the streets.
>>7832603
And this somehow precludes his affiliation with the Nation?
Season 4 made me cry bitch tears.
>>7832611
He's just not a realistic character. The Nation of Islam people don't go around shooting people in the streets and slinging drugs.
Brother Mouzone and Omar are capeshit tier character that ruined the show.
>>7832601
Why are you acting like it's normal to encounter members of that cult? There are 50,000 members in a nation of 320,000,000 people
>>7832612
Y tho
>>7832603
He's the hero hero /lit/ needs
>>7832625
It's bleak and hopeless and Marlo killed everyone I liked.
Bubbles was my favorite character as was Senator Clay Davis, surprisingly.
>>7832052
The Wire is a large-scoped, slow-paced show done right. Deadwood is pretentious with some truly incredible moments and characters. Ultimately, the large scope fails it. It should've focused on a smaller set of characters. I get thematically, that it was about showing how civilization comes together. But he did not have enough interesting stories in there to make that work. And some of it was pretentious as hell.
>>7832727
You mean a large scope slow paced show made palatable to you through "entertainment" inflection and a fedora influence. Any scene featuring Omar, Bubbles, Brother Mouzone, Stringer Bell, Slim Charles, Bunk, Bodie, Duquan, Prop Joe, Cutty, Clay Davis is borderline unwatchable, the IMDB pandering hits you in the face so hard.
And the final season is completely worthless.
>>7832663
sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit pardner
>>7831827
The only people who compare it to shit like Shakespeare are people who haven't actually read Shakespeare.
>>7832579
Nigger with a library card is a very old joke
I've watched The Wire three times now. It is, without doubt, the greatest television show ever made. Or, at least, it's my personal favourite. On the third viewing, I made my girlfriend watch it. She enjoyed the show. More than that, she really connected with it. Marlo was her favourite character.
>>7832597
This guy's got the right idea. The commercial demands along with the long-running serial format make it an extremely limited medium.
>>7832867
That's interesting.
>>7832839
Deadwood is more like Shakespeare.
>>7832839
I've never read Othello... It's a seminal work, and apparently it's one of Shakespeare's best. But The Wire feels more important to me. Maybe because it's recent, maybe because it represents real issues that are affecting us right now.
>>7832912
Shakespeare is the highest expression of real issues that affect all of us for all time.
>>7832321
The fifth season was garbage for its lack of sophistication in showing the relationships between individuals and making characters with complex motives. The writer clearly couldn't distance himself from his own work and life enough to write about a newspaper company.
I agree hamsterdam was pretty dumb as well. The 3rd season had the gang warfare narrative though, which was interesting. All the seasons apart from the fifth have at least one interesting social system like that.
>>7831907
you don't have much life experience, do you, mate? absurd grudges make the world spin.
>>7832313
In the continuum between art and entertainment television shows will always fall far towards the latter- the reason being that they are beholden to their network to sell ads or maintain subscribers or whatever. Also, they will also always be plot oriented and formulaic in that they are structured towards 'what happens next?' and having "shocking" moments like two characters banging or someone being killed off.
Also, creativity is always stifled because of the financial resources required to produce a show. More financial risk = less creativity.
You have to be braindead to watch shit like this.
>>7832912
>I've never read Othello
>But The Wire feels more important to me.
I am lmaoing at your life right now.
>>7832727
>Deadwood is pretentious
How?
>>7833225
it's not. i take the other anon is ignorant to what Milch & co. were going for with the language and themes.
>>7833225
It's not pretentious but it's definitely edgelordy
>>7834043
How?
>>7834109
Lots of swearing and violence, the bad guys are the ones who win, etc
>>7834114
There's not a terrible lot of violence (that fist fight between Dan and the captain is probably the best I've seen though), people say cocksucker a lot and there's moral ambiguity but I don't think that makes a show for adults 'edgelordy'.
Something like True Detective matches that description a lot better, for example.
I thought of the show as being something like War & Peace if it were set in Baltimore and written by Balzac. You get this impressively comprehensive view of an entire society, but where War & Peace felt more like it was about the whole in which this people live The Wire felt like an army of Balzac characters going about their lives.
ITT: Easily impressed manchildren defending a shit TV show.
Sopranos and Deadwood are better. Only redditors and sheltered whites think The Wire is "da best show ever!"
>>7832744
t. autist
people say /lit/ has some semblance of taste and class, and then you see this thread with all these retards pretending tv has any artistic merit
kek. just admit it most of you don't read and are just shitty crossboarders from /tv/ and /mu/ and /r9k/
JESUS CHRIST /LIT/ A FUCKING TV SHOW?
Saying a teevee show is art is the same as saying videogames is art.
>>7836176
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Videogames is the epitome of art, you can make your own stories and allow your imagination to run wild. I could write an entire novel about my latest run in Dwarf Fortress. It was compounded by the fact that I was an active participant in the story as it unfolded and could influence the direction it took or the characters involved. Video games are, ultimately, the truest of patrician entertainment. You are not limited by the words and workings of another but instead offer your own mind as a guiding hand to shape the story. When you read literature or watch a film you are not participating it at all. It stays the same and always will. Fitting that you don't know what the word means, as you take every effort to avoid social interaction because you're a neckbeard shut-in.
>>7836177
this
vidya(video games)>televison>anime>movies>music>books
>>7836183
Literally backwards, kill yourself with your shitty bait.
>>7836257
>calls it shitty bait
>still responds
how new are you friend? he rustled your jimmies pretty good eh?
>>7832663
Sobotka is my favorite.
Such a deep and tragic character.
>>7832313
See >>7833143
He pretty much nailed it. The only thing he didn't address was how they actually are increasingly becoming equal because literature has been degrading for the past fifty years due to an increased emphasis on commercialization. That's not to say TV shows are growing in artistic merit, just that literature is increasingly losing it and they'll unfortunately be equally vapid and trashy soon because profit is king, and artistically sterilized entertainment is what sells. Unless something happens to seriously shake up the publishing industry (which I highly doubt will happen) traditionally published literature as an artform will completely die off in this century.
It is only after long experience that most men are able to
define a thing in terms of its own genus, painting as painting,
writirig as writing. You can spot the bad critic when
he starts by discussing the poet and not the poem.
>>7837327
Terrible post, rotzvenik.
Big fan of The Wire. Berlin Alexanderplatz is also a great /lit/erary show.
Dekalog is god-tier TV, although it is more a series of short films than an actual TV show.
>>7832052
Mad men suck balls. Its so gay and fedoracore. kill yourself, mah man
>not just watching Hannibal
have you guys seen tits?
>>7832603
he used to be a gangster, but then like the majority of thugs in that age, he found islam
nothing strange about that
The Wire is essential 110-120 IQ core
>>7837396
Actually Mad Men is good, faggot.
>>7837893
But a series with a real end (as in not canceled or something similar) is self contained. If a series isn't self contained then what about all the novels published serially? In the 18th century it was the biggest form of publishing. Is Anna Karenina not self contained because it's serially published?
>>7832588
>Infinite Jest
>2666
Not him, but jesus fucking christ my sides, nice one anon
>>7837327
Understanding the poet is an essential part of understanding the poem itself.
>>7838612
>bitching about two good books
>not about Cormac McCarthy
Oh, /lit/ loves to be so contrarian, I see.
>>7838971
not really, understanding the surrounding culture is useful though, but trying to get into the mind of the poet/their intention etc is a dead end at best
>>7838973
I haven't read anything by Cormac McCarthy, but with a name as stupid as that I'd imagine his books are shit. Infinite Jest and 2666 on the other hand, I have read, and know firsthand that they are fucking shit.
>>7838981
I disagree. There's a lot you can learn about a poem from learning about its author.
>>7838981
the 1930s called they want their outdated theories back
It's more like journalism than literature desu. It's good.
>>7838978
Dead wrong. The "nostalgic" "classy" "comfyness" is just a facade. The people who say that don't understand the show at all. Mad Men is one of the most uncomfortable pieces of media ever made. It shines a harsh light on some of the darkest aspects of humanity that most people would rather be left hidden away.
The thing that people don't understand is that Mad Men's true genre is in fact "Horror".
There are episodes of Mad Men that are more heart stoppingly terrifying than any piece of horror cinema ever made. It's a deep fear, a real fear, an "American" fear. The type of fear that makes you want to tear off every inch of skin from your body and then throw salt on your wounds. I've felt this at least once in every season of Mad Men.
>>7839587
It really isn't.
>>7839624
What you mean like the part where Ginsberg cuts off his nipple
>>7839371
genius
