What is the best English translation of Don Quixote?
Grossman
Enjoy.
>>7830541
Thanks m8.
Not fucking Grossman. Jesus Christ.
Bloom recommends Samuel Putnam.
>>7830474
Ugh. Why?
>>7830874
Why
the one by Pierre Menard
>>7830874
Grossman is fine.
Where's the guy that meme arrows "translation"
>>7830890
B-but Grossman's translated version is introduced by Bloom.
>Bloom recommends Samuel Putnam.
This better be ruse.
>>7830474
nah
>>7830917
>This better be ruse
He did in the appendix to the Western Canon at least, the list was published before the Grossman version I think.
>>7830923
Then he might have changed his mind after reading the Grossman's translation.
>Reviewing the novel in the New York Times, Carlos Fuentes called Grossman's translation a "major literary achievement" and another called it the "most transparent and least impeded among more than a dozen English translations going back to the 17th century."
I'd have went with Putnam if Grossman version didn't existed.
Also, one doesn't simple writes an introductory to a translated version. Especially Harold Bloom.
>>7830474
OP Grossman for Don Quixote. Best.
>>7830890
Yeah, Harold Bloom is well known for his mastery of Old Castilian...
Tom Lathrop has a fantastic translation. Underrated and more faithful to the Cervantes original than the apostles were to Christ. Plus footnotes and cheaply available as pocket-paperback.
>>7831810
Lathrop has a very entertaining review of the Grossman translation where he points out that Bloom's introduction mentions more Shakespeare characters than ones from Don Quixote
Grossman or Rutherford
>>7830541
IS BUTTERFLY BACK?
Don't fuck with me like that, frieeend. :'(
>>7830541
butters???
Smollett is best translation, you idiots.
>>7835680
This poster is mostly correct. I see nothing wrong with Smollett's version. Rutherford's is in the vein of Smollett's, only slightly modernized. I read and enjoyed both these translations.
I wouldn't recommend Grossman's. I've read a handful of chapters from each translation before i decided on Rutherford for my second read-through, and Grossman seems to take a lot of liberties in trying to modernize the text. I get Bloom recommends it, but I would trust his opinion more if he didn't write the intro and have personal interest in the success of the work.
tl;dr: Rutherford or Smollett
>>7830903
hehe
>reading translations
disfruta de tu ignorancia m8
>>7830474
The original is literally perfect. Literally.
None of them, fucking pleb
Raffel
>translation
Why would you need a traslation if it was written in english?
>>7837438
it was written in spanish you filthy pleb
I also have Grossman.
PSA TO EVERYONE DEFERRING TO HAROLD "DUMB FUCK" BLOOM AND THE NYTIMES AND WHATEVER THE FUCK ELSE:
GROW A FUCKING BRAIN
THANK YOU
PS HACK THE PLANET
>>7837453
Ayy lmaooo dat true dint remembr
>>7832010
>Lathrop has a very entertaining review of the Grossman translation where he points out that Bloom's introduction mentions more Shakespeare characters than ones from Don Quixote
To be fair, we can't forget the unfortunate accident where Bloom literally sucked Shakespeare's dead dick so hard and deep that the rotten corpse's member became permanently lodged in his old, flabby maw; ever since then the poor man's vision has been obscured by the long deceased Bard's withered hips, the sticky offal of which - a curdled membrane of flesh and sinew that coats the playwright's mummified and pale frame - has cemented around Bloom's mouth, forming the abhorrent bond that has so irremediably melded the two together. Doctors and surgeons have tried with utmost valiance to separate these icons of the literary world - he who cataloged the Western canon, and he who is asserted to be its foundation - but Bloom has shunned all medical personnel away, choosing instead to live a life orally conjoined to the penis of William Shakespeare's corpse than let his idol be desecrated in any attempt at a separative procedure.
As difficult as it may be to live burdened by such a handicap, Bloom has nevertheless resolved to continue reading and writing as normal despite being burdened by the the decomposed Swan of Avon, who to this day dangles by the groin from his mouth. Given the aforementioned visual impairment Bloom suffers from as a result of this arrangement, perhaps Bloom was unaware of how many Shakespeare characters he was mentioning in his introduction, since the pubic mound of England's national poet rested no less than the length of his nose away from his eyes. A second excuse may be that he had been so distracted by the periodical shifts in weight of his esteemed literary appendage, which would sway and lean limply to one side rf the other in response to its victim's slight movements, that the busied Bloom merely lost count.
>>7837662
>>7837662
>>7830541
I'd like to don her quixotes (if ya know what I mean).
>>7837662
Pic related is the best translation out there! Fuck the rest.
>>7838646
Touché Anon touché.
Grossman seems to be the consensus. I would rather read him than the orignal because I hate mexicans.
>>7839631
>Grossman seems to be the consensus. I would rather read him than the orignal because I hate mexicans.
Grossman is a woman, and it isn't consensus. its the Quixote equivalent of Shakespeare through text speak
el americANO gordo seniores >>7839631
>>7839647
It's the the best one. I speak spanish and compared translations.
>>7839775
i've compared translations as well. either Spanish id your second language and you dont know it well enough to comment on which is most faithful or English is your second language and you don't know it well enough to comment on which edition takes the most liberties in modernizing the text.
I've studied Quixote extensively, and frankly if you arent reading it in spanish you are missing out on a lot. The archaic way quixote speaks just doesn't translate well. I don't speak spanish, but I have read 3 different editions of quixote. Grossman preserves the comedy well, but I just dont like the way she translates.. shes a translator of contemporary literature after all, and she's said she treated quixote like all her contemporary works.
>>7839800
So which according to you is the best English translation?
>>7837662
>>7839906
>filename
lmao
>>7839831
>So which according to you is the best English translation?
I would put Rutherford at the top of my list. And obviously I'm speaking in hyperbole when I say Grossman is awful, I just have an issue with how she contemporizes the text. Her version is still funny and very readable. I'm also of the opinion that Ormsby's translation is horribly underrated, i'd probably rank that second behind Rutherford.
But my point is that I'd really encourage any reader to read from as many copies as he can get his hands on to see which he thinks is best. This new idea that we should blindly accept Grossman's as the best is an awful meme. We don't want to become shills to these publishing companies that keep reissuing classics saying the new version is the best ever just to sell more product. And again, I dont think Grossman's is bad, just not the best
Cervantes:
“En un lugar de la Mancha, de cuyo nombre no quiero acordarme, no ha mucho tiempo que vivía un hidalgo de los de lanza en astillero, adarga antigua, rocín flaco y galgo corredor. Una olla de algo más vaca que carnero, salpicón las más noches, duelos y quebrantos los sábados, lentejas los viernes, algún palomino de añadidura los domingos, consumían las tres partes de su hacienda. El resto della concluían sayo de velarte, calzas de velludo para las fiestas con sus pantuflos de lo mismo, los días de entre semana se honraba con su vellori de lo más fino. Tenía en su casa una ama que pasaba de los cuarenta, y una sobrina que no llegaba a los veinte, y un mozo de campo y plaza, que así ensillaba el rocín como tomaba la podadera. Frisaba la edad de nuestro hidalgo con los cincuenta años, era de complexión recia, seco de carnes, enjuto de rostro; gran madrugador y amigo de la caza. Quieren decir que tenía el sobrenombre de Quijada o Quesada (que en esto hay alguna diferencia en los autores que deste caso escriben), aunque por conjeturas verosímiles se deja entender que se llama Quijana; pero esto importa poco a nuestro cuento; basta que en la narración dél no se salga un punto de la verdad.”
Rutherford:
“In a village in La Mancha, the name of which I cannot quite recall, there lived not long ago one of those country gentlemen or hidalgos who keep a lance in a rack, an ancient leather shield, a scrawny hack and a greyhound for coursing. A midday stew with rather more shin of beef than leg of lamb, the leftovers for supper most nights, lardy eggs on Saturdays, lentil broth on Fridays and an occasional pigeon as a Sunday treat ate up three-quarters of his income. The rest went on a cape of black broadcloth, with breeches of velvet and slippers to match for holy days, and on weekdays he walked proudly in the finest homespun. He maintained a housekeeper the wrong side of forty, a niece the right side fo twenty and a jack of all trades who was as good at saddling the nag as at plying the pruning shears. Our hidalgo himself was nearly fifty; he had a robust constitution, dried-up flesh and a withered face, and he was an early riser and a keen hutnsman. His surname’s said to have been Quixada, or Quesada (as if he were a jawbone, or a cheesecake): concerning this detail there’s some discrepancy among the authors who have written on the subject, although a credible conjecture does suggest he might have been a plaintive Quexana. But this doesn’t matter much, as far as our story’s concerned, provided that the narrator doesn’t stray one inch from the truth.”
>>7830903
He wrote in spanish tho
Grossman:
“Somewhere in La Mancha, in a place whose name I do not care to remember, a gentleman lived not long ago, one of those who has a lance and ancient shield on a shelf and keeps a skinny nag and a greyhound for racing. An occasional stew, beef more often than lamb, hash most nights, eggs and abstinence on Saturdays, lentils on Fridays, sometimes squab as a treat on Sundays—these consumed three-fourths of his income. The rest went for a light woolen tunic and velvet breeches and hose of the same material for feast days, while weekdays were honored with dun-colored coarse cloth. He had a housekeeper past forty, a niece not yet twenty, and a man-of-all-work who did everything from saddling the horse to pruning the trees. Our gentleman was approximately fifty years old; his complexion was weathered, his flesh scrawny, his face gaunt, and he was a very early riser and a great lover of the hunt. Some claim that his family name was Quixada, or Quexada, for there is a certain amount of disagreement among the authors who write of this matter, although reliable conjecture seems to indicate that his name was Quexana. But this does not matter very much to our story; in its telling there is absolutely not deviation from the truth.”
Which is best /lit/?
>>7840034
That spanish one
>>7840034
is it just me or are they both bad?
first sentence to me goes more:
In a place in La Mancha, whose name I don't care to remember, there lived not long ago a country gentleman etc etc
>>7840048
you start to see these deficiencies even more when you get to Quixote and Sancho;s speeches
>>7840026
>>7840029
>>7840034
Ormsby:
"In a village of La Mancha, the name of which I have no desire to call to mind, there lived not long since one of those gentlemen that keep a lance in the lance-rack, an old buckler, a lean hack, and a greyhound for coursing. An olla of rather more beef than mutton, a salad on most nights, scraps on Saturdays, lentils on Fridays, and a pigeon or so extra on Sundays, made away with three-quarters of his income. The rest of it went in a doublet of fine cloth and velvet breeches and shoes to match for holidays, while on week-days he made a brave figure in his best homespun. He had in his house a housekeeper past forty, a niece under twenty, and a lad for the field and market-place, who used to saddle the hack as well as handle the bill-hook. The age of this gentleman of ours was bordering on fifty; he was of a hardy habit, spare, gaunt-featured, a very early riser and a great sportsman. They will have it his surname was Quixada or Quesada (for here there is some difference of opinion among the authors who write on the subject), although from reasonable conjectures it seems plain that he was called Quexana. This, however, is of but little importance to our tale; it will be enough not to stray a hair's breadth from the truth in the telling of it."
>>7840029
>>7840034
>>7840065
Holy shit these are horrible, too many liberties and either too verbose (Rutherford and Ormsby), or too terse (Grossman), butchering of the prose rendering it mediocre, and loss of colloquialisms and double meanings.
Fuck the imbeciles who say that translations are fine, probably idiotic monoglots too stupid to learn another language.
>>7840590
>2016
>being this much of an edgelord
>>7840590
i can only choose to learn a few languages. why would I choose a language with such a poor literary tradition. German, French, English, Russian > Spanish
>>7837662
I think my sides have achieved 5D existence.
>>7838646
But why,,,
>>7839647
Don't do it. I read Grossman and I regret it immensely now. 900 goddamn pages I read, then I finally go and look at some other translations and it all makes sense. Here's the humor! Here's the wit! THIS is why it's famous! I had no idea.
So yeah, read Rutherford. It may not be perfect, but at least he's got at least some sense of humor.
>>7840029
>>7840034
>>7840065
Shelton:
There lived not long since, in a certain village of the Mancha, the name whereof I purposely omit, a gentleman of their calling that use to pile up in their halls old lances, halberds, morions, and such other armours and weapons. He was, besides, master of an ancient target, a lean stallion, and a swift greyhound. His pot consisted daily of somewhat more beef than mutton: a gallimaufry each night, collops and eggs on Saturdays, lentils on Fridays, and now and then a lean pigeon on Sundays, did consume three parts of his rents; the rest and remnant thereof was spent on a jerkin of fine puce, a pair of velvet hose, with pantofles of the same for the holy-days, and one suit of the finest vesture; for therewithal he honoured and set out his person on the work-days. He had in his house a woman-servant of about forty years old, and a niece not yet twenty, and a man that served him both in field and at home, and could saddle his horse, and likewise manage a pruning-hook. The master himself was about fifty years old, of a strong complexion, dry flesh, and a withered face. He was an early riser, and a great friend of hunting. Some affirm that his surname was Quixada, or Quesada (for in this there is some variance among the authors that write his life), although it may be gathered, by very probable conjectures, that he was called Quixana. Yet all this concerns our historical relation but little: let it then suffice, that in the narration thereof we will not vary a jot from the truth.
Can anyone tell me how the story translates. I was trying to read a hundred years of solitude in english, and it was complete shit, like the translator did not know how to do phrases and expressions that are very colombian, and just got shit wrong. Is it the same with Cervantes.
Also, learn castellano, OP, it's the language of cervantes and garcia lorca.
>>7840029
>>7840034
>>7840065
"Someplace in La Mancha, the name of which I caren't to recall, not long ago did live a sir of the type that has his lances racked, his buckle aged, his nag thin, and his hound hasty. With a pot nearer beef than lamb, salad for the better part of nights, strife and sorrow for sabbaths, lentils for the day before, and a squab or not for church days, three quarters of his income did sustain themselves. With fine clothed smock, celebratory furry stockings along akin slippers did the remainder close, gracing himself with his most fine apparel on weekdays. Habiting his house were a maid o'er forty, a niece not yet twenty, and a steward from the countryside and the city square, as proficient in horse saddling as he was in grass cutting. Our sir was closing fifty years of age, and there was a vigour in his constitution, a dryness to his flesh, and wrinkles on his visage; he rised with the sun and ran along the hunt. They ought to nick his name Quixada or Quesada (a point of discrepance for the authors writing about these affairs), though you could conject it to be Quexana; yet 'tis of no big matter to our tale, for it suffices so long as the telling straysn't one iota from the facts."
>>7841560
>"Someplace in La Mancha, the name of which I caren't to recall, not long ago did live a sir of the type that has his lances racked, his buckle aged, his nag thin, and his hound hasty. With a pot nearer beef than lamb, salad for the better part of nights, strife and sorrow for sabbaths, lentils for the day before, and a squab or not for church days, three quarters of his income did sustain themselves. With fine clothed smock, celebratory furry stockings along akin slippers did the remainder close, gracing himself with his most fine apparel on weekdays. Habiting his house were a maid o'er forty, a niece not yet twenty, and a steward from the countryside and the city square, as proficient in horse saddling as he was in grass cutting. Our sir was closing fifty years of age, and there was a vigour in his constitution, a dryness to his flesh, and wrinkles on his visage; he rised with the sun and ran along the hunt. They ought to nick his name Quixada or Quesada (a point of discrepance for the authors writing about these affairs), though you could conject it to be Quexana; yet 'tis of no big matter to our tale, for it suffices so long as the telling straysn't one iota from the facts."
who is the author of this one
btw this is actually the most helpful which translation is best thread lit has ever had. There is literally 5 different translations of the opening paragraph
>>7841660
>who is the author of this one
It's OC, ı just translated it on the spot. How d'you like it?
>>7841689
honestly I don't hate it. little good it does me unless you do the remaining 450,000 words and publish it as an Ebook
>>7841484
This one is super liberal with its translation, but I think it's the most entertaining. I'll look for it at my uni library.
>>7841698
Wew, ı'm sorry to disappoint, though ı might consider it when ı go through the Quixote--translating does wonders for understanding a text. I think my main gripe with the other versions is the diction, because the way Cervantes writes is meant to be confusing and compact, but the translators seem to try to make it the reader understand the meaning, when the whole point is that thing is pointless flare.
>>7841560
Every time Spanish to English translation threads are made, and someone posts their own translation, theirs is always better than the published and critically praised ones.
>>7841706
It's the one Shakespeare read, if he did indeed write a play about Cardenio as is believed.
>>7841742
shakespeare might have been able to read spanish
>>7830474
None. Learn spanish. And I really mean it, as a hablante bilingüe de inglés/castellano.
Last thursday I was reading a translation of "Soledades" de Góngora and I don't think I will ever recover from the experience. Translations of ancient books are always awful.
>>7840026
>>7840029
>>7840034
>>7840065
>>7841484
Google translator:
In a village of La Mancha, whose name I do not remember, not long since lived a nobleman from those of lance and ancient shield, a lean hack and a greyhound for coursing. A pot of rather more beef than mutton, a salad on most nights, scraps on Saturdays, lentils on Fridays, and a pigeon or so extra on Sundays, the three parts of his estate. The rest della concluded broadcloth tunic, breeches velludo for the holidays with slippers of the same, the weekdays are honored with his Vellorí of the finest. He had in his house a housekeeper past forty, a niece not yet twenty, and a farmhand and square, who saddled the hack as the billhook. Was nearing the age of our gentleman with fifty, it was dry meat, lean face stout complexion; very early riser and friend of the hunt. They mean that his surname was Quijada or Quesada (for here there is some difference in the authors write deste case), although from reasonable conjectures it is plain called Quijana; but this matters little to our story; sufficient than in the narrative point of truth is not out.
>>7839977
The poster that said he's spanish speaking here again. After comparing Grossman and Rutherford more I've converted to Rutherford now. It keeps the spirit of the humor and Grossman is too dry.
>>7843184
Mexican here. I agree.
