Okay, which versions of The Iliad and The Odyssey should I read?
Does it matter all that much since it's subjective anyway; are there any I should just avoid?
Also, should I read The Odyssey before Ulysses?
I love this E.V Rieu translation. Not sure what the consensus is on it here though
Can't go wrong with Fagles
>>7825066
Robert Fitzgerald is best.
>>7825066
Most people here have only read one so they will recommend that one or perpetuate memes.
>>7825677
Most people will read these books, especially fagels, like prose anyway.
>>7825686
That's right. But I read both translations of The Odyssey, and enjoyed the one by Fagles significantly more. Rieu kind of got boring after a bit.
Anyway, isn't the original meter lost in translation?
>>7825663
none of them bitches have shit on fitzgerald
Lattimore preserves the Greek poetic effects as best he could, so things like stress and assonance are preserved better than most versions.
Fagles preserves more of the imagery over the poetic effects.
Both are good if you want verse translations.
If you want a prose translation, Butler cuts out the lists of ships and re-orders the story into an easier form. Most of what you lose won't matter to you.
If you want to learn Greek: Pharr's Homeric Greek; Beetham's Beginning Greek with Homer; and, Schroder and Horrigan's A Reading Course in Homeric Greek. The last of these jumps around more than the other two, but you'll probably need all three and a non-glossed Homer.
I have popes illiad but never read it. Is it good or should I get Fitzgerald etc
Stanley Lombardo translation is phenomenal imo. I've also read Lattimore's translations. If you want the most literal translation I'd go for lattimore, but definitely check out Lombardo anyways, completely underrated
Is it true that people not so long ago told the classics as bedtime stories to their kids?
I mean I love rainbow fish as a kid but mutiny on the bounty and robinhood were quite good too, makes me wonder if classics are entertaining to kids. Or is that going to result in some autistic manchild.
>>7825732
>>7826276
>lol no, pick something else.
See pic
>>7825066
OP for Iliad and Odyssey go with Fitzgerald since both those are poetry and and when it comes to Homer Fitzgerald is very poetic. Or go with other if your IQ is less than 50 or you're a retard.
I started Ulysses and got about a hundred pages in before I thought that I could just audio book the Odyssey and listen to it at work, I've now finished it and it's helping quite a bit with Ulysses, also it was the Samuel Butler version which was dry but fine as an audio book. I couldn't imagine actually sitting down and reading it.
>>7826231
"And then, after the Greeks burned down everything and slaughtered the populace, and Ajax raped Cassandra, Menelaus wanted to kill his wife for dragging them all out to Troy - but Helen showed Menelaus her tits and all was well again, good night"
That would make for pretty good bedtime stories
>>7827334
If you're recommending on the basis of "it's poetry lol" then Pope is the finer poet. It just won't tell you shit about what the original was. Fitzgerald isn't the only one seeking to preserve the poetry of the thing: Lattimore, Chapman, Fagles and many others have done so, with greater success in keeping to the original poetry than Fitzgerald.
>>7828086
>Pope is finer poet
I don't recommend "finer" I recommend the best.
>with greater success in keeping to the original poetry than Fitzgerald.
Pleb please. I've read most well known translation of Homer and after comparing each I found Fitzgerald translation to be very superior the rest. Fagles and Pope are literally cheap and for plebs. Chapman is fucking horrible. Lattimore's translation is good but not as good as Fitzgerald.
>>7828116
>Fitzgerald > Pope
lol no. not even in dream land is he a better poet than Pope.
>>7828116
>Pleb please. I've read most well known translation of Homer and after comparing each I found Fitzgerald translation to be very superior the rest. Fagles and Pope are literally cheap and for plebs. Chapman is fucking horrible. Lattimore's translation is good but not as good as Fitzgerald.
Bitch please, I speak Greek and read Keats.
>>7828120
>not even in dream land is he a better poet than Pope.
Tell that to yourself fucktard.
>I speak Greek and read Keats.
No you don't.
>>7828120
>not even in dream land is he a better poet than Pope.
You do realize this isn't Reddit, right?
>>7828128
Yes, I do. And I'll recommend you read what Keats had to say on reading Chapman before you rek yourself into oblivion by dismissing him as horrible. Maybe you'll just tell me another poet greater than Fitzgerald is wrong and make me laugh more, but it's a risk I'm willing to take
>>7828132
>Keats had to say on reading Chapman before you rek yourself into oblivion by dismissing him as horrible.
Fuck Keats, fuck Chapman and fuck you. Fitzgerald is the best. Go boil an egg, retard.
>>7828141
I get you like him, but your personal prejudice isn't something valuable. It's just your fanboyism
>>7828128
>I speak Greek
Lolfag no you clearly don't.
>>7828147
>calling someone a fag
>saying they can't speak greek
As as faggot I find this hilarious
>>7828144
I like him because he's the best translator for Homer, but you have made a conscious decision to stay deluded. So stay deluded.
>>7828151
You're hilarious in general, though.
>>7828161
He also has shit taste.
>>7828157
He's not the best translator; he's just the one you like best. Similarly, a lot of courses will recommend Fagles because he's easier to read than Lattimore, but that's because they know their students aren't going to understand what Lattimore is doing to preserve the original poetry: they don't have a reference for what the original is, and so they can't recognise Lattimore replicating it.
It's fine if you like Fitzgerald the best, but it's not the best translation. It's just the one you have the most affinity with and isn't the one with the greatest affinity to the original.
>He's not the best translator; he's just the one you like best.
Correction:
He's the best translator for Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, just how Aylmer and Louise Maude are best for Tolstoy and Allen Mandelbaum is best for the Divine Comedy. That's why I like him.
>a lot of courses will recommend Fagles because he's easier to read than Lattimore, but that's because they know their students aren't going to understand what Lattimore is doing to preserve the original poetry: they don't have a reference for what the original is, and so they can't recognise Lattimore replicating it.
Read what I've said to OP>>7827334
>but it's not the best translation. It's just the one you have the most affinity with and isn't the one with the greatest affinity to the original.
See >>7828157
Also, you said Pope. Ugh.
>>7828247
I said Pope was the better poet. You're responding to me in a chain where I've pointed out what Dryden observed all those years ago: it's great poetry but not Homer.
All you have as an argument is
>muh opinion
>muh fanboyism
It's not like you're providing valid criticism like, 'Fagles sticks to imagery rather than poetic form" or even fully embracing your pleb and saying "Lattimore might have more Greek poetic effects, but I want to pretend Homer was English". The guy recommending Lombardo probably has greater arguments for his translation to 90s slang than you do for Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald does poetic translations, which means you lose accuracy, both of the original poetic tradition and of the lexical meaning. It's in the same vein of things as Pope, not the others. Even Lombardo with his slang translations of "be a pal" has more metaphrase strength in his translation, and Lombardo you should only get if you're genuinely retarded.
>>7828268
ROBERT FITZGERALD FOR HOMER'S THE ILIAD AND THE ODYSSEY. Get. This. Much.
PS
If you have any doubts about that, contact Harold Bloom.
>>7828535
You don't even know what a poetic translation is? Hint: Fitzgerald wasn't trying to write an accurate translation at all. He wasn't dumb enough to not notice that the first lines don't match.
>>7828540
Here:
Phone: 2034320029
[email protected]
>>7828548
You're the type of kid who sends his mom to fight his teachers, right?
>>7828551
No but whatever.
>arguing with someone like you is like trying to convince a colorblind person the sky is blue. Literally frivolous.
>>7828558
The poor kid seems lost. All he's got left at this point is an argument from authority, when Bloom is also smart enough to know there difference between translations and poetic translations.
I like talking about this shit to be honest with you, familia. I like arguments about whether Edward Fitzgerald's Rubaiyat is better for introducing plot and its more poetic revisions than the original collection which holds a different beauty. Anon is a spastic fanboy, but I'm willing to keep teaching him how to argue about this because that's how all the neophytes act before they learn.
>>7826217
Lambardo's colloquialism is way too jarring, it takes you out of the story. He makes Achilles sound like a bitchy teenager.
>>7828562
You're the most wrong person to have ever existed. If you were here Harold would have slap your entire face.
>>7828605
you maaaaaaaad, anon.
Here, look, this is how you argue your position without telling us about your embarrassing fantasy life:
>argue against any non poetic version
This rules out a lot of accurate prose translations, but you can also get rid of Fagles with this bit. Argue that it's stacked prose and not to the standard that Milton's free verse shows. This still leaves you with Pope, the other major poetic translator, but it gets rid of more accurate translations which don't follow form.
>argue against archaic language
This rules out a lot of translations because of the syntax of the original. People read "Sing, o muse, of the son of" as some tryhard pseudomedieval fantasy shit nowadays, so any one who tries to stick to the original you can rule straight out. This makes way for you to go up against only poetic translations which are somewhat more modern, like Mitchell, since it rules out Pope.
>argue for poetic merit over form
Do not do this before you have ruled out Pope, because Pope would eat Fitzgerald for breakfast and spit him out in a crystallised couplet. However, you have to do this, because goddamn is Mitchell autistic about metre.
>>7828603
Yeah, I think the market on that is people who were teenagers at that moment in history, not a general fanclub. We'll probably see txtHomer complete with emoticons and backlinks within our lifetimes ;_;
Since he's never mentioned, I'll throw Peter Green out there. His Iliad came out last year, and he's working on the Odyssey now. Well-received translation from a respected scholar.
The classic go-tos are Lattimore and Fitzgerald, especially Lattimore for the Iliad.
>>7828640
>tfw anon probably won't return now to hear how he should include Fitzgerald against Lattimore and Lombardo now
>tfwywn make him argue cultural oppression of beliefs to include "sing through me" despite its anachronism now
I'm reading Fagles' translation for the Iliad currently. Easy to comprehend if you're a pleb like me.
