I didn't really know where else to put this. Any traditional Christians around to lend a bit of information?
I was born Lutheran, Raised Catholic, became an avowed atheist, then kind of became agnostic, and I dont know why but as I get older I keep thinking back about all those years in Sunday school, church, etc
I do know however Catholicism is not for me in any way. Penance, Purgatory, and the Pope being the only one who is truly able to talk to god... it all flies in the face of everything Christian.
Southern Baptist seems like it would fit well with my views. Though Pentecostal and Lutheran are certainly options. I dont know why but I seem to be more drawn to Hellfire preaching.
Help a lost bro find his way?
>Protestantism
>>7823714
The difference between Catholics and Protestants is that Protestants have actually read the Bible.
>>7823722
I can actually tell you this is true. In 15 years of CCD and Church the only time I ever read the bible was in the very first few years. In Catholicism the actual bible is really downplayed in favor of the Priest's sermon and teachers guidance. From the age of maybe 13 to 19 when I became an atheist I didnt touch a bible despite going to church twice a week and volunteering at 2 different summer camps
>>7823722
Keep telling yourself that, Luther.
>>7823701
Just read the bible man, don't have to put a label on it if you truly take what you read to heart. No need to bother with the pageantry of the church, a smart lad like you can understand the bible plenty fine without some kid toucher forcing you to repeat after him every 5 seconds and sing gay songs.
>>7823701
You don't have to go to a Church if you don't want to, be a non denominational Christian. I was in a cult and basically was that sort of thing until I left and became an agnostic.
http://www.ccnamerica.org/ I'll be checking it out. Never heard of it b4
>>7823764
>>7823759
See the thing is, Church for me all those years wasn't about Church. It was the community, the intellectual discussion, the challenge but also the belonging.
I certainly wouldn't judge a denomination based on first appearances, but I have had very poor experiences with "open faith and new world" Churches.
For example, and I really hope this doesnt derail the thread I believe homosexuality is the same as murder. It is a bold faced affront to God. He told you it was wrong, and you basically gave him the middle finger and did it anyway. At the last new world Church a friend brought me to, I actually listened to 3 hours of the pastor going on and on about how everyone must be included and that religion changes
Except right there in print, in front of you, the Bible, Gods literal word, it says "God shall curse those who change his words"
Im ok with a bit of interpretation, I am not ok with changing a 2000 year old religion to suit your modern day needs when that religion specifically tells you that is not only wrong, but a giant middle finger to god.
>>7823722
>he thinks protestants actually read the bible
Tennesseefag here. Ninety-nine percent of people here haven't even touched the bible, and, if they do, it's always one of the shitty revised ones.
>>7823759
>>7823764
I suspect part of what OP is feeling the lack of is the community that church brings, which is supposed to be an inherent part of Christian living.
If you feel drawn to conservative fundi-vangelical form of meeting and teaching, why not just find one close to where you live? Or get connected with an evening Bible study/small group, which is where more of the community-life is in most conservative churches these days (at least mid- to large ones).
Theologically, I find the anabaptists to be the most agreeable and reasonable, though there's typically little difference on a sunday morning between your Mennonite service and any other evangelical group. But the history and tradition are so rich.
>>7823847
Not OP, but I consider myself a Protestant, and I'm too antisocial to leave my house. So it isn't an absolute necessity to have a sort of Christian group you can consult with -- but, humans being social creatures, it's probably better to find a community of likeminded individuals.
>>7823701
What books have you actually read on athiesm?
>>7823891
A bit of Pascal, Voltaire, and Shaw. A little Russell, and mostly quotes and shorts from Epicurus. a lot of Nietzsche, but I know that is much more nihilism
>>7823847
BTW I am so sorry I never responded. I am drinking, one of my little problems.
I really do miss.. friends. Like good friends. I know a couple people from college I still talk to. I have "work buddies" but come on, those arent friends.
That isnt really it though. Smokers might get this. Drug addicts might get this... I have this "feeling" its not describable. Its not... Like I have a feeling I need to read the bible. Its fucking weird and I have never felt this way before ;(
>>7823789
well theres also laws about not cutting your hair and never touching dead bodies... if you are a christian you believe in kindness and forgiveness (all your sins are forgiven if you accept christ) We are supposed to live like Jesus- who would surround himself with homos if he were hear today... unless you dont believe in the new testament theres no other way to interpret jesus's message
>>7824031
You shouldn't be on the lit if you havent read a bible... in the scope of the western cannon, its importance is beyond that of the greeks
>>7824053
whoops, here*
>>7824053
That is the horrifying part. What if Jesus was an amazing con artist? Most of my closest held beliefs actually side most with Jewish teachings. But, I could never tell anyone... my family and friends would disown me if I said Jesus was an ancient, altruistic Charles Manson or non-gun owning David Koresh
>>7824090
Yeah man i feel you.. its tough to base everything on a book based on events that allegedly happened 2000 years ago.. takes incredible faith but i guess that's the way it should be.
>>7824099
My mind says 3/4 of it is BS. My heart wants it to be true. I know faith is the total lack of rationality, but dam it. None of it makes sense, you have to blend 3 religions and 200 denominations to come out with something that makes...sense
>>7824090
>What if Jesus was an amazing con artist?
That's part of the conundrum Jesus presents. C.S. Lewis presented it in his 'liar, lunatic, or Lord' formulation (and he likely adapted it from Chesterton).
Also seconding what >>7824053 said, and adding what Jesus said to those who would stone the woman caught in adultery: 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' Also Paul, someone in the NT who spoke against homosexuality (Rom. 1), followed it up by pointing out that 'there is no difference' since all are condemned under the law equally and redeemed equally (fully) by grace (so the two have to be balanced, and all throughout the NT love wins out).
>>7824154
Oh, and the answer to the 'liar, lunatic, or Lord' conundrum is found in the Resurrection.
Go reformed OP. Look up James White on Youtube, or RC Sproul or John Piper and I think you'll find their teaching strictly biblical and sound
>>7824154
Not trying to hijack Opies thread but somebody just told me that they thought Paul was a homosexual, saying that the thorn in his heel or whatever that he talks about dealing with in his letters is metaphor for being gay. Not sure why it would be interpreted like this (it could have been a literal fucking thorn in him or any number of an infinite amount of vices) but when I looked it up online i found out its apparently a pretty widespread theory . I'm still thinking it was a physical ailment (Luke the doctor followed him around and chronichled his travels) just wondering if youve ever heard this shidd
>>7824172
I haven't come across that explanation for Paul's 'thorn in his side' (although I have heard a homosexual spin put on Jesus' relationship with John, who refers to himself in his Gospel as 'the disciple Jesus loved'.) Paul speaks about having a gift for not needing to be married. Perhaps this is used as further evidence to support the homosexual theory; however, Paul also speaks about how righteous he was by human standards, which wouldn't go with his criticism of homosexuality. Then again, he did speak of himself as 'chief of sinners'; but, this is generally seen as his acknowledgement that his earthly righteousness and zeal count as nothing before the judgment of God and that he is just as much dependent upon salvation by Christ. I suppose a good deal more back-and-forth is possible with this issue and that both sides could muster a case. I for one don't see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCnQQLUJHb8
If you can make it through 27 minutes, and not have a tear, or an oh shit moment... I dont know what to say
>>7824099
But, really, you're not basing everything on a book based on events that happened 2000 years ago... this is part of the purpose of church and part of why there is something lacking if a Christian chooses not to be part of a church community. The beliefs that one has and the practices that one performs and the methods of reading the Bible that one uses are rooted in the traditions that are given to us now. The traditions are historically based and, while we would each like to think that our tradition is the one that reaches back to the upper room on Pentecost, or to the sermon on the mount, we are the heirs of traditions and rituals.
I used to be a free-n-easy non-denominational kinda guy, but now see that as being naïve and ahistorical. The reading and teaching of the Bible is obviously central to Christian life and practice, but we can't consider our approach to it to be separate from tradition. So, OP, find the tradition that you can identify with and invest in that.
I'd say go to as many services of each as you feel necessary. They won't turn you away at the door! Feel what resonates most with you.
It's spiritual at all. So find what you feel is best for your current place and spiritual identification and be happy!
>>7823701
Read the bible, then read the Tao Te Ching. I believe you dont have to believe in god the maker to be a good christian, and find for me that God is more like the Tao. Christ and his message is what being a christian is about.
>>7824187
Not the previous guy, but I could see this correlating with a reading of Paul that sees his zeal as an apostle as a psychological need in order to surmount the previous animosity. His denunciations of homosexual practice could relate to the repression of his own desire, a la Ted Haggart.
I'm guessing that it's not uncommon in queer/liberation readings of the Bible.
Pure ideology, my god!
>>7824197
So you really think Christ's message has nothing to do with believing in a creator God
Why do I sense you're one of those "all religions teach the same thing maaan" scrubs that has never actually read the bible
>>7824210
I'm not >>7824197, and do think that belief is important, but what does belief amount to on its own? Intellectual assent to a notion that one has cobbled together from bits of sermons and sunday school classes long ago? Belief may give us a metaphysical comfort, perhaps give life an organizing principle, but it's realization in the world is through your actions in the world.
Look to Colossians 1.24. Paul says that in his suffering he is "filling up what is lacking" in the sufferings of Christ. That's not to say that there really is anything lacking or insufficient in them, but the act of Paul's suffering is a fulfillment or realization of Christ presently in the world. God becomes "real" and believable because Paul is actually suffering. Similarly, it is through putting into practice Christ's teachings and Paul's instructions that God "becomes" something realized in the world... it provides the substance to the belief that otherwise risks becoming primarily mental. Bible reading and prayer is part of this, but so is the practicing of love to others.
So definitely hold onto the importance of belief, but it needs you to act if it is to have an object in the world.
>>7824210
The new testament (Romans I beleive) does say something along the lines that God is evident even to those that haven't been taught the christian texts. People all around the world could deduce God's existrence from nature and his laws from their morals. One could argue that their interpretation of this are the results of these other religious texts.
>>7824239
>One could argue that their interpretation of this are the results of these other religious texts.
Its just a basic level teleological argument. No reason they (Paul in particular) couldn't come up with this independently
>>7824239
You mean Romans 1.18-20. The point of Paul's argument here is that since, as you put it, "God is evident even to those" who haven't been taught about Him, they do bear the guilt and responsibility of their sin. Ignorance of the Law and the means it provides for propitiation does not free you form the guilt that the Law reveals.
So it's not an argument for relativism or universalism, as you suggest, but quite the opposite, senpai.
>>7824264
So when a distant people writes down these laws they feel and know to exist becoming, where is the distinction between it becoming a sort of quasi-christian text or another separate religion as you might suggest
>>7824191
Interesting take on tradition.
>>7823722
No one reads the fucking bible unless they are doing research, make it last of their general education or are trying to find their next religion. I take the rituals and community of Catholicism over reading that god awful book any day. And considering OP doesn't appear to believe any word of it anyway and just wants some comfort and community maybe don't go by books and some guy in Italy.
>>7823908
Are you stupid? Pascal wrote only one book on the theme and it's Christian apologetics.
>>7824754
You seem like a pleasant and devout young Catholic
>>7823701
>I didn't really know where else to put this. Any traditional Christians around to lend a bit of information?
Catholicism is the traditional Christianity, and yes, there's some of us here.
>I do know however Catholicism is not for me in any way. Penance, Purgatory, and the Pope being the only one who is truly able to talk to god... it all flies in the face of everything Christian.
Pope doesn't talk to God and it's not only the pope. I'm not sure where you are getting that shit. Prayer is talking to God and everyone can pray.
>Help a lost bro find his way?
Read philosophy.
>>7824775
Way to be an elitist dick
>>7824775
>Catholicism is the traditional Christianity
>>7823701
Evangelical
>>7824775
>Pope doesn't talk to God and it's not only the pope. I'm not sure where you are getting that shit. Prayer is talking to God and everyone can pray.
A Catholic does not believe normal people can speak to god. Catholics pray to saints, have priests and the Church pray on their behalf, but you can not pray directly to god. The Pope is Gods worldly representative. You can pray to him and he can intervene on your behalf.
If you could pray to God directly, the entire idea of Indulgences wouldn't really be a thing now would it?
>>7823701
Just pick a denomination and stop being such a pussy.
>>7825231
>picking a religion
>>7823701
>new american standard bible
So is it writtenin mexican?
>>7823701
Just go church shopping. It'll take two months tops to find a place that suits you
>>7823701
>Penance, Purgatory, and the Pope being the only one who is truly able to talk to god
You don't really know much about Catholicism do you Anon?
>>7825216
Being this retarded.
No wait, being THIS retarded.
>>7823701
Most of my experience is between Southern Baptists and Presbyterians. The main difference between them is that Baptists have a bigger focus on the external, like missions and spreading the word, while Presbyterians are more internal (and generally more knowledgeable about theology).
I'm Baptist myself, and I'll say that the right church can be tricky to find. Here in the South there are a ton of tiny, awful, intellectually-inbred churches that do more harm than good, but there are also some amazing Christian communities. There's a lot of variety from church to church, so try not to judge the whole on the premise of one or two terrible churches.
Here's a tip: Read the Bible, watch out for interpolations, and believe what you believe is right, so long as it doesn't go against the 2 basic laws: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.
Easy as that. Even Paul wrote that none of us are actually right, since we don't know everything. Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, they're all on the same board, just with different mindsets.
Also,
>inb4 elitist Christians bashing on the usage of Baha'i elements in Christianity
>>7823701
Are you looking for the community aspects of it, or strictly Biblical study?
My church is a small 'Plymouth Bretheren' church that teaches from the idea of scripture alone. The goal is that the spirituality of it overrides the list of rules that seems to dominate a lot of sects. It's similar to southern baptist churches, but it's more 'studious' of scripture if that makes sense.
If you're not concerned with community at all, I'd check out the Greek Orthodox church. Great teaching and spiritual writings, but it's kind of a show up and leave right after sort of place.
>>7824053
You are confusing the old and new testaments
>>7825235
I think he means choose which Protestant denomination you most identify with after reading the Bible; or, alternatively, choose whichever Catholic cult is closest to you.
>>7825808
Yeah, I'm saying your wrong. Not only wrong but ignorant of the Catholic faith.
>>7824754
>No one reads the fucking bible unless they are doing research
I read the Bible for spiritual guidance
>>7825907
The entire Hierarchy, structure, and tradition of the Catholic Church is unbiblical and goes almost completely against how Jesus told people to follow him and love others
They can't even fucking get sin right
>>7824187
Maybe he just never fornicated with men
>>7824191
Jesus almost extensively shits on tradition.
>>7827743
Haha, anon.
You need to read this:
>pic related
>>7827760
I know to avoid king james and it's extentions. I'm not retarded.
>>7823722
Damn straight.
