Qur'an
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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
What does /lit/ think of the Qur'an?
I'm redpilled, so I don't know anything about it and despise it more than anything else
I've been trying to get my hands on a copy for a while now. Not really sure where to get a good print from.
I have an autographed copy from DFW. My favorite part is where Kmart knockoff Gobot Jesus fucks his underage daughter.
>>7818114
I'm assuming you want a translated copy? Go for the 'Study Quran' that released recently. It's a translation and commentary.
Although, and this is depending on whether you care or not, the editor-in-chief of the book is a Shia and most Sunnis would steer clear from anything that has to do with Sunnis and the Quran. This is because the Sunnis don't consider it the word of God.
>>7818208
>Sunnis would steer clear from anything that has to do with Sunnis and the Quran
Shia and the Quran, I meant to say, not Sunnis and the Quran.
>>7818106
read the owc translation, was mildly surprised by how bad it was. easily worst of the 3 abrahamic texts
>>7818209
Also, Sunnis believe the Quraan is veritable the words of God, some Shia sectarians dispute it.
>>7818106
It's a book written to appeal to conservative 7th century farmers, and it reads like one. Good text if you want to join a desert death cult but otherwise, no, it's not worth a read, and it is not insightful in the slightest.
If you actually want to study it as a religious text, don't bother trying to read the whole thing cover to cover, and instead pick up some kind of academic guide that will distill it into major points.
MUHAMMED WAS AN AUTHOR OF GENRE FICTION WHO HAD NO DISCERNIBLE TALENT.
>>7818106
It's got some amazing beautiful imagery
Definitely more /lit/ than the New or Old Testament, but the underlying themes are somewhat less beneficial
As a self-help book it isn't great. Most of the rules are arbitrary outside of the context of early medieval Arab culture, and the general message of submission is contrary to my personal humanism
>>7818106
Don't care for it
Once I saw one in a book store and stuck gum between some of its pages LOL
Fuck Muslims, Donald Trump will save us
>>7820507
>Definitely more /lit/ than the New or Old Testament
t. delusional cucked Swede
>>7818212
this, it's basically fanfic, even the book of mormon is more /lit/.
/lit/ religious text tier list
Necessary for Patrician status tier:
The Vedas (Upanishads in particular)
Tao Te Ching
Old Testament
High tier:
The Analects
The New Testament
The Abhidhamma
Genre fiction tier:
The Book of Mormon
The Qur'an
The Hadiths
>>7818106
Yeah, I read it, and fuck you too, you cocksuckers!
You wanna jihad me, bring it on! Bring your weapons, I have mine.
>>7820895
Oh yes now that I realize this the joke is actually very funny and a worthy post, if only this was Reddit then I would make sure to upvote it. So what's the best way to handle that? I suppose the most widely used method is to just copy and paste it in other threads? I'm assuming that's what you do, but some clarification would be nice. Thanks in advance.
Fan-fiction. Utterly unbearable to read.
>>7820584
Old testament and New testaments importance in western literature are unparalleled and stand in a category of their own when we consider religious texts. Unless you are reading some ching chong bullshit you really dont need to read the other works. The only texts that can rival the bible are the greeks, and even their significance on western literature pales in comparison to the bible (not to say the greeks arent super important either)
>>7820584
where's the 11th guru
I like to think there's some degree of truth to it and to its supposedly supernatural origin.
This is because I generally believe that any religion with more than 100 million followers has to have some substance to it, both philosophically and spiritually. I believe this because if I didn't, and I assumed that billions and billions of people were simply being fooled, I would open myself up to the charge that my own religion, which also has billions of adherents, is no different.
So I'm willing to cut the Muslims some slack and admit that there's probably something metaphysical/supernatural in Islam that's real.
Still don't think they're the one true faith, though.
>>7821001
Of course it has substance. Substance they "borrowed" from Judaism and then anti-Christian elements. Then, philosophers from a entirely different tradition were islamised and their philosophy assimilated.
>>7818106
I was underwhelmed, but I don't regret the time spent reading it.
I haven't read it but looking at the people who value it I'm going to assume it's a piece of shit.
>>7821001
If you want to believe that Islam has spiritual truth to it then you subscribe to the idea that God considered religion to require an update after Jesus' sacrifice.
And that is blasphemy.
>>7818106
Pretty much reads like the bible, I mean have any of you niggers actually read both? Abrahamic religions are just different flavors of shit. That is why you should wipe your ass with it, rather than interpret it. Perhaps taking the retarded dawdle some goat-fucking sand person envisioned a few millenniums ago is a bad idea. Remember kids there is a judgmental man in the sky.
>>7821358
theres a judgemental dick in this thread
>>7821377
>true
Cynicism is the best thing you could ever do for yourself, give it a go.
If I am right, I am just an asshole and there is nothing. If you are right I get tortured for an eternity. If you hedge your bets, you have the clear advantage.
The clear beauty of life is that neither of us actually know.
>The best beauty is that once we do we can't shit post our findings to impress strangers on the internet.
>>7818106
full of shit nosense shit, literally shit
>>7821397
>earlier today anon was rejected by the 4/10 chinese international student at his college
>>7821438
>Implying I even finished highschool.
YFW I almost have enough GPB to get extra tendies tomorrow.
Beautifully written, even in translation. I love it.
>>7820584
I'd put Uddhava Gita in Patrician tier. Bhagavad Gita and The Tibetan Book of the Dead in high tear.
You need to read it in Arabic, otherwise it loses its poetic beauty.
It's literally poetry in Arabic, and instructions in English.
>>7818106
Reads like shit. You need to stop every verse and think about wtf he just said or the bullshit might wash over you.
>>7821448
Where'd you put Tawasin?
Where would any of you put it?
>>7820507
>Definitely more /lit/ than the New or Old Testament
Have you actually read the Qur'an? Taken as a literary work it is absolute trash. Just go ahead and read it.
>>7821574
I read some from all three (different anon). I think Qur'an is better too, because of its authentically non-fiction structure if not for anything else.
I forget whose translation I read but the one I read was quite beautiful, in the same way the KJV translation was
It was also very progressive for women at the time regarding property rights, etc. - that's probably why /lit/ doesn't like it
>>7820507
>Definitely more /lit/ than the New or Old Testament
just spit out my fair trade coffee. knowledge of the Bible is necessary understand just about every book in the western cannon. Quaran... not so much.
this thread has not disappointed me yet.
>>7820496
>>7820507
>>7821304
>>7821472
>>7821590
>>7821591
Good, people who aren't idiots.
Take it from one of the jewiest Jews of them all, renowned DFW hater, Harold Bloom.
As Harold Bloom, the veteran literary critic, remarked:
>“But the Koran cannot be ignored, as it is a work of genius we badly need to study.”
>“Audacity, a crucial characteristic of Muhammad in every way, marks The Koran’s achievement of a literary effect unlike any other.”
>>7818106
It's ridiculously bad. It shares a lot of content with the Bible, but boy the writing is bad.
>t. exmuslim
>inb4 read it in العربيه
>>7818106
Pretty much the Bible deluxe.
>>7824104
>Take it from one of the jewiest Jews of them all
top kek
>>7818106
>What does /lit/ think of the Qur'an?
There's only one God Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.
>>7822666
Nice sixes.
But it is essential to understanding Islamic canon, which, even if you aren't familiar of it, boasts of a stupendously rich body of works.
>>7821574
Have you read it, or just a translation?
>>7818106
Proclaims hatred and violence.
>>7818106
>400000 million replies
It's shit
>>7821591
>very progressive for women at the time
>advocates stoning
Nice try, Fatima.
>>7825882
>he only reads peaceful books
I read it and it wasn't very good. Who even wrote this thing?
Mohammad is a perfect example of an ubermensch
>>7825998
Mohammad's wives and a few scribes that lived with him
>>7818106
Algerian here.
It reads like a children's book, it's disorganized, the verses don't follow each other, it jumps from one subject to the other, it's incomprehensible if you don't read Tafasir to know each verse in its historical context and the subject.
It's mostly bedtime stories, Bedouin style, 80% ripped off the bible, and a "legal" verse thrown in the middle for the lulz (like what to do when a contract between merchants is broken, which women is it halal to marry, how to punish certain crimes). And every three verses, it reminds you that Muslims are the best community and will all automatically go to Heaven, and everybody else is doomed to burn eternally in hell, and I mean every three verses or so (so yeah, bedtime stories).
It's scary to think that 1.5 billion people think this is the word of God in a literal sense, but most of them are either illiterate, have never even read it, or have never read anything with the strict minimum of literary value (and I mean minimum, like writing clear sentences that follow each other coherently, etc.), so it's understandable I guess.
>>7826109 Sameguy
However, the history of Islam, of the Prophet, of Abou Bekr, Umar and Ali, etc., is worth reading, because it is amazing and is the origin of a civilization that conquered half of the world and is still (somewhat) in place now, so it's kind of important to know about it. And it's really fascinating and inspiring in terms of sheer grandeur of the project and achievements. Even if you don't identify with it, narratively speaking, the characters of Muhammad, Abou Bekr, Umar and Ali are amazing, the rivalry with the Ummaya, Uthman kind of indecise in between, Mu'awiya the complete degenerate, the successions of califs, it really reads like a novel and it's one of the best there is.
>>7818106
I tried to read it, but it was repetitive and boring. I might try again one day.
>>7821358
>Abrahamic religions are just different flavors of shit.
I'm sorry but they're not.
>Islam and Judaism have stoning women to death (and men too)
>Jesus said "whoever has never sinned can throw the first stone)
>Islam and Judaism are strict monotheisms
>Christianity has the Triforce
>Islam and Judaism have spawned strict theocracies (concentration of both the temporal and the spiritual power in the same institutions and hands)
>Christianity has spawned temporal monarchies and the church (and churches)
>Islam and Judaism have food restrictions
>Jesus said "poison isn't what goes in your mouth, it's what comes out of it"
>Islam has Jihad and the obligation of holy war of conquest as the literal word of God
>Christianity doesn't, and it has to do with the fact that the temporal and spiritual powers were divided from the beginning
>Christianity doesn't have penal and commercial laws, only some civil laws (regarding marriage and burying - not even successions, those were always regulated by common law - and only the celebration of marriage was carried by a minister, the effects of mariage, especially the matrimonial regimes, were all regulated by common law)
>Islam has civil, penal, commercial laws written IN the Quran (successions, punishment for some crimes, etc.), and enforced by the islamic state
>Again this has to do with the fact that Islam is both a material and spiritual religion, and Christianity has always been strictly a spiritual religion, and the (originally pagan) monarchies all vehemently defended their sovereignty and independance from the state, Philippe le Bel even tried to murder the Pope for this
I could go on for ages
>>7826173
So Islam is for cuckservative goat herders while Christianity is some sort of radical pacifist hippy bullshit people use to whatever end suits them?
>>7826184
Basically, yes.
One is definitely less dangerous than the other if you ask me. I don't see Christians from 80 countries fucking up France (Fille aînée de l'Église (The Chruch's Oldest Daughter or some shit like that)), Spain (of Isabella the Catholic la Reconquistadora and vanguard of the forces against the Sarrasin, and zealous Iquisidora) and Italy (home of the Holy See) because they're not "Catholic anymore" or "not Catholic enough for them" the same way Muslims from 80 countries have fucked up Irak and Syria.
>>7826210
Maybe Churchill was right.
Someone handed me a Qu'ran in the streets of Istanbul.
Tried reading it (it was in English), but I put it aside very fast. Totally un-appealing to me.
I prefer my bible.
>>7821001
Well I guess catholicism and islam have the same target audience ie retarded brown people
>>7826548
Sure thing Ahmed
I read a translation and wasn't too impressed. I imagine the appeal lies in its use of Arabic.
>>7827269
the crusaders were mostly a bunch of uneducated, tooth-rotting peasants. don't kid yourself manlet.
>>7827448
I've heard it recited in Arabic. As a non-Arabic speaker, I was completely unimpressed. It's not because I don't speak the language, because I don't speak Persian either and it sounded good in Persian.
>>7818106
I read a good portion of it before getting bored. Not sure which translation. It didn't seem so much like a narrative at all; rather, I perceived it as like one long, and continuous chant. I suspect that this might be accentuated if one reads it in Arabic, particularly if one reads it aloud.
>>7825976
Difference is, this book has 2 billion believers.
>>7827269
Why are you calling me Ahmed, huh? I'm Nordic masterrace.
And before you ask my ancestors migrated to America long before the diversity showed up.
>>7827615
Your ancestors briefly poked their noses into America and then ran off when a couple of eskimos got a little irritable.
>>7827453
>the crusaders were mostly a bunch of uneducated, tooth-rotting peasants. don't kid yourself manlet.
Who wasn't back then?
>>7826548
>Well I guess catholicism and islam have the same target audience ie retarded brown people
This is pretty true in the modern context.
>>7818106
style: ok, not unique or special, though
content: repetitive, simple ideas and thoughts, some action, but not that exciting
historical context: huge
difficulty level: low
>>7818106
It's a hodgepodge of relics from the government-by-revelation era. Islam's real interest is in how it worked as the cultural imperialist arm of the Arab conquest, not in its founding document.
>>7818110
>t. neomarxist intellectual scholar
>>7820584
>Tao Te Ching
>not Zhuangzi
>Reading the Qur'an
Plebs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEZsG5CgXzk
>What does /lit/ think of the Qur'an?
Pleb tier trash
>>7828479
>that one really mundane allaaaahh..... in the middle.
Also look at the video on youtube and click translate to english. Arabic to english autotranslates usually turn out pretty hilarious.
>>7818106
osama bin laden was right
Muslim here whos read it.
Few notes:
Lots of talk of the hereafter (more than I like, actually). However, there are very interesting allegories. People are very inclined towards reading certain things (e.g. 'Allah says disbelievers are BLIND and that he has veiled their eyes, so he's essentially tormenting them') and not reflecting upon them. This is something that both critics of Islam and its less savoury proponents do. I personally got interested in religion after reading a loooot of early modern-philosophy and existential texts, which softened me towards the religious stance, and then I made the walk to a comprehensive religion.
Doesn't proclaim violence (multiple verses about extending peace to non-believers, being kind to them, etc.)
Tells stories (duh).
And, most importantly, is meant to be understood as a revelation. Meaning it's not necessarily a book that just descended and is meant to be immortalized and followed to the letter, but was revelation received by Muhammad in his circumstances. Therefore, you can't abstract it from its historical situation.
There's a lot of stuff that'll upset some people. Such as punishments, etc, but those were the punishments given for such crimes at the time. Some scholars have argued that these punishments are not divine because of their pre-Islamic significance.
Sad thing about Islam is that certain interpretations are just not available without doing some digging since the Wahabbist/Salafi school of thought is extremely prominent and is what's espoused in the majority of mosques. I've had sheikhs tell me that there's no doubt about the fact that apostates ought to be killed when there's a lot of evidence against it. Kinda fucked.
>>7818106
I've a fondness for the Qu'ran as it isn't as widely available for free as the Bible so I always relish its rarefied pages as I wipe my ass.
>>7830139
death to america!
>>7830139
>e.g. 'Allah says disbelievers are BLIND and that he has veiled their eyes, so he's essentially tormenting them'
"Ex"-Muslim here (basically raised in a Muslim family until old enought to figure out a thing or two and decided it was not for me).
This is LITERALLY at the beginning of Sourate Al-Baqara, the second sourate, right after the Fatiha (which is a formula), so it's RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING of the damn thing, and it's already laid out that this religion is a rigged game.
Allah says that HE has chosen to veil their eyes and prevent them from seeing the truth, so anyone who believes does not so from his own will, with his own heart and reason, but because has allowed him to. Based on what? Nothing. He just randomly chooses who will believe and who won't, and who to send to Paradise, who to send to Hell. And this is part of everyday Muslim lingo : "God has guided him", etc.
This is so unfair, and it's so common, and it's at the very beginning of the Quran (no joke, it's like the 5th or 10th verse of the Baqara), and it's so blatantly stupid, and nobody questions it. If anyone is looking for an explanation of why the Muslim is such a shithole the whole way through, there it is.
>Doesn't proclaim violence (multiple verses about extending peace to non-believers, being kind to them, etc.)
I'll need sources on this one because I have Sourate 48 verse 29 :
>Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves.
Sourate 22 verses 19 to 22 :
>But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron
Sourate 9 verse 73 :
>O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination
Sourate 66 verse 9:
>O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end.
Sourate 8 verse 55 :
>Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve
And of course the summum of stupidity :
Sourate 2 verses 6 to wherever :
>Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.
>Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.
>In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.
>[But] Allah mocks them and prolongs them in their transgression [while] they wander blindly.
>>7818106
Racist & Bigoted
>>7831064
>I've had sheikhs tell me that there's no doubt about the fact that apostates ought to be killed when there's a lot of evidence against it.
I'll need the evidence against this one too because I have here Quran Sourate 16 verse 106 :
>He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.
And the hadith sahih :
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/083-sbt.php#009.083.017
>Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/052-sbt.php#004.052.260
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'
I have dozens of texts and examples on apostasy, I'd like to have your file please.
>>7818106
Burn it.
-it's very hypnotic, I read some in spanish
>>7831124
gay
>>7821591
>very progressive for women at the time
Yes, it has strict rules on how to beat your wife,
And which women it is okay to rape.
Also, how to kill adulterers and women who are raped.
>>7827609
>2 billion
More like 1.6 billion.
Still 1.6 billion too many.
>>7830139
So it´s Allas fault, that disbelievers (also christians, jews) don´t believe in him.
How can you claim,that jews and christians are disbelievers, when
1. Alla sent the bibleand the holy torah --Y so he´s their (our) g-d.
2. He closd their eyes, not allowing them to believe. (And will make their pain worse, somewhat in the beginning of sure 2.)
3. He says he is mercyful, but won´t show it to disbelievers, to make them believe, rather gives them illnesses.
It´s written that, in sure 1, that Alla is mercyful. How is he mercyful, when he makes life bad for people, who never heard of him (bush-men) and people, who just ask question and doubt, what other people tell them. You wouldn´t believe a christian either way. So I really don´t see your point in posting here.
>>7828027
>Your ancestors briefly poked their noses into America and then ran off when a couple of eskimos got a little irritable.
The only reason I mentioned america was because I didn't want people calling me a SwedenCuck - the point is that I'm descended from Swedes, Icelanders etc who were from the pre cuckhold era and thus beyond reproach
But what you said still hurts my feelings so good job
>>7818106
Bible fanfic
>>7831075
>>7831064
>>7831195
Regarding freedom of religion:
>Allah says that HE has chosen to veil their eyes and prevent them from seeing the truth, so anyone who believes does not so from his own will, with his own heart and reason, but because has allowed him to.
I agree with the last statement, as modal possibility is an act of permission and allowance. It does not entail being an act of compulsion as there is no compulsion in religion (2:256) Furthermore, the consequences of disbelief follow necessarily without disbelief being a necessarily imposed state. The 'veil over the eyes' is a consequence of disbelief, as is the seal of the heart; they cannot be penetrated by the mere communication of a message as it is the role of the person to initiate change from within themselves.
>11:28 (Noah to his people) He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If 1 act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?
Also, it's not sound to use the order of verses in the Qu'ran as an indication of legitimacy, as the verses are arranged according to length (with the exception of the opening verse) rather than chronology or theological importance (which is what you're implying).
>Whoever believes, let him believe, and whoever rejects belief, let him reject it. We have prepared for those who do evil a fire that envelops them. (Q:18:29)
There is, of course, a punishment for apostasy. But it is not intended to be worldly. But note the emphasis on 'letting' one continue in whatever state they're in. People can do what they want.
I do not approve of the practice of jursiprudence following from hadiths and consider it to be really, really retarded. Especially when they conflict with what the Qu'ran says.
>So it´s Allas fault, that disbelievers (also christians, jews) don´t believe in him.
Christians and Jews are not disbelievers. You do believe in God. I have never met a Jewish person who did not think that there is only one God. I dislike drawing barriers between myself and Christians; my theological thought has been molded by Christians as well as Jews. I like Godel, I like Spinoza, I like Leibniz, I (very, very, very much) like Martin Buber and Kierkegaard. I personally find the notion of disbelief to be rather strange, since it's said in the Qu'ran that there have been messengers sent to every region. I also do not totally doubt the veracity of The Holy Bible and The Holy Torah. I have not made a serious study of either, I confess. It was unfair of you to say that I wouldn't believe a Christian.
>>7831310
cont
cont.
>How is he mercyful, when he makes life bad for people, who never heard of him (bush-men) and people, who just ask question and doubt, what other people tell them.
It's not a scholarly consensus (nor one that I've even heard of) that those who have never heard of Muhammad's message are consigned to hell. There is a scholarly consensus that people who have not heard Muhammad's message could still be following God's revelation (a messenger was sent to every people). I've heard some say that the standard of disbelief only holds for those for whom the truth is obvious but they still turn away from it, as there is not much attention dedicated specifically towards those who come to an a-theistic belief completely rationally. I have also heard the argument that God, being Just and Fair, wouldn't punish someone for what they do not know (of course, you can raise counter-arguments to this line of thought from the Qu'ran).
>2:62 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
Of course, there are beliefs in Christianity which are considered to be wrong (such as belief in the Trinity [which isn't even completely idolotry, since it's more of 3-pronged terminology aimed at one core concept [Godhood])
>>7831162
Yes, it's still very progressive for women at the time.
>How to beat your wife
Sourate 4 verse 34 :
>But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them.
This means that violence isn't the first solution : first you have to speak with her, then ignore her, and then strike her, and 100% of the tafasir say that it has to not leave any kind of trace (so no lesions and bruises) and not break any bones.
Compared to beating your wife as the first solution for a yes or a no like the arabs "used to do" (they still did, this verse didn't change their behaviour), I call it progress. Doesn't mean there isn't even more progress to be made.
>Which women is it okay to rape
Slaves and war captives. Muslim women are off limits. The goal of Islam is to create a coherent community with peace inside of it, as all communities ever did. This is why there is common law and jus in bellum : within the community, there are rules, women are protected, conflicts between men are first settled by law and then by force, and even when force has to be used, there is a certain code to respect (honour, etc.).
Men and women outside the community have always been treated as non-humans by every closed community (the Greeks, the Romans, name it), and when fighting against them because of conflict, the rules don't apply anymore (you can hit in the balls, slaughter them savagely, cut off and their balls and feed them to them, etc.)
Your "universal moral" is barely 200 years old, and only applies in the West, need I remind you.
>Also, how to kill adulterers and women who are raped.
Stoning for adultery is law against women as well as men.
Women who are raped are legally victims, and rape of Muslim women is punishable by death, it is not the law's fault that those in charge of applying it don't do it properly. Rape has always been extremely difficult to prove, you're only seeing it from the point of view of the woman who has been raped and knows she did and suffers, but from an objective point of view, which the law must consider, it is extremely difficult to prove. I know that you are referring to the fact that Muslim courts consider a woman who files a complaint about rape but can't prove it as a fornicatrix : this is a stretch in logic that makes zero sense, and is a real injustice. If you have a solution, please let me in your secret, because I don't know how else to address this matter, except by saying that this is why women are under the protection of their father and then their husband, must avoid going out by themselves, and must cover themselves.
Coming from a Muslim country, I can tell you that these matters are settled outside of the courts : men from the family of the woman, who know the woman and that she will not lie about these matters, simply murder the rapist.
>>7831258
and the bible is fanfic of the tanakh
It's shit
>>7831310
>It does not entail being an act of compulsion as there is no compulsion in religion (2:256)
Stop with this.
I have the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir here, because it has been falsified in its English translation.
http://ddata.over-blog.com/4/22/62/75/Tafsir/2.-La-Vache.pdf
Page 344, you can translate it.
>Une partie des ulémas ont jugé que ce verset concerne les gens de Livre et ceux qufadhèrent à leur religion avant le changement et l’altération de leur Livre au cas où ils payent la capitation. D’autres ont dit qu’il est abrogé par le verset qui appelle au combat dans la voie de Dieu et qu’il incombe à tout musulman l’appeler tout le monde à se convertir, celui qui refuse d’embrasser l’islam, se montre rebelle et ne
s’acquitte pas du tribut, sera combattu jusqu’à la mort.
Some believe that this verse only applies to ahl Al-Qitab (Jews and Christians) who accept to pay the Jizya, as stated in Quran Sourate 9 verse 29 :
>Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Others believe that it has been abrogated by the Jihad verses.
Sourate 66 verse 9 :
>O Prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them.
Sourate 9 verse 123 :
>O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness.
This verse has a very specific meaning according to all Tafasir (if you have another one, please look at it, this is the best I could find online), it doesn't have the broad, general sense it seems to have.
>Furthermore, the consequences of disbelief follow necessarily without disbelief [...] is the role of the person to initiate change from within themselves.
I do not understand, I'm sorry.
>I do not approve of the practice of jursiprudence following from hadiths and consider it to be really, really retarded.
OK so you are contradicting what every Muslim has believed since the revelation, and what has been consensus between all the people who spent their lives studying and commenting this religion, the Four Madhab, and the Quran stating that Muhammad is an example.
Good to know you aren't a real Muslim.
Quran Sourate 4 verse 80 :
>He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah: But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).
Quran Sourate 59 verse 6 :
>Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil)
>>7818106
I think you should take one of these and use it instead of charcoal to lit up your BBQ, then proceed to cook plenty of bacon.
>>7831310
>There is, of course, a punishment for apostasy.
What is the punishment for apostasy in islamic countries?
i never read it because the fanbase is so shit
how comes it's ok for muslims to hate jews but not ok for white ppl to hate jews? maybe the yids are hoping to associate antisemitism with islamic barbarism but this scheme is going to backfire as westerners welcome muslims into formerly white civilization as an antidote to kike control
Is the Qur'an important for understanding Arabic literature in the same way the Bible is for understanding English literature?
Also where is a good place to start with Arabic literature? Someone told me Rumi is good but I don't know what to get.
>>7818106
I Piss on Quran
>>7834905
I piss on you
>>7833217
neither 1 of those things is ok you fucking dolt
>>7833217
Because the Jews have fucked over and killed Muslim and Christian prophets throughout history, so they are set for eternity in hell.
>>7834951
Problem is, Muslims justify their hating of the Jews, for some reason. What's funny is that none of the Muslims I asked have known the justification for them hating Jews.
>>7835004
Those were their ancestors. That's like saying that today's Germans deserve to go to hell because they have the same ancestry as the Nazis.
Something important to keep in mind when reading the Qura'n; it didn't 'descend' onto Mohammad in the order that you find in the version we have today. It descended on him as separate verses that corresponded to whatever situation he was in at the moment e.g. some guy comes up to him with a problem about divorcing his wife and the prophet would just start convulsing and muttering a verse (it's real, look it up). The order of verses in the Qur'an was decided almost a 100 years after the prophet's death. I don't know what the bases of that order was, but i know for a fact that it's not chronological.
Also, there are some scholars who doubt the authenticity of most of the verses and whether it was a divine inspiration of the prophet or just something he plagiarized from the the many poets he surrounded himself with.
>>7835492
But the Nazis did nothing wrong, because they exterminated the people who deserved it.
>>7837065
>whether it was a divine inspiration of the prophet or just something he plagiarized from the the many poets he surrounded himself with
Gee, what do you think?
>>7838297
I can't believe honorable soldiers have died to protect the rights of ignorant pieces of shit like you.
>>7838454
I bet you're a kike.
>>7838468
Wow, you must read a lot of books.
Fuck this board.
bumping for brussels
>>7820584
>Quran
>not patrician tier
its like you plebs didn't even read the original Arabic
>>7838926
>cut
>white
intothetrash
>>7822666
What kind of roast were you drinking, Satan?
>>7826173
Those are some great comparisons. Do you have any book recommendations?
BELGIUM
B T F O
T
F
O
RELIGION OF PEACE
ALOHA SNACKBAR
Perfect thread resurrection mate.
