So I've made up my mind to start with the Greeks.(all in the pic related). Please suggest me patrician tire translation for each. Also, for Homer, I'm going with Robert Fitzgerald.
>>7798222
where's heraclitus and diogenes? you need heraclitus and diogenes.
>>7798222
Read the fucking chart faggot
>all these fucking greek wannabes spending more time planning how they want to read the greeks rather than just fucking reading them
Bernard Jowett for Plato. Though, you really have not the faintest idea of how obtuse the Dialogues are do you? The entire list will take you a long time, independent of every dialogue plus Laws and Republic etc
>>7798241
I mean translation in English you absolute fuck.
>>7798322
We'll do what we want. Who the shit are you to tell us what to do.
>>7798474
lol so you can be left out of every serious conversation on the greeks? cool, just pick one at random and assume it's not someone with the same level of greek as you. it's not like you'll know you're wrong.
>>7798501
>just pick one at random
No fuck you.
>>7798222
>actually reading the greeks
>being this new
>>7798517
okay, be a girl about it
>>7798222
Also for Plato you are going to want to read excerpts from the Republic (political theory) and Symposium (philosophy of love). Also, read Antigone. Aristotle's ethics is fine, Homer is fine. Rest is too much imo. Not sure how much Greeks you want to read.
>>7798537
Antigone is in there, nvm.
>>7798537
>Plato
>Symposium
>Aristophanes is too much
>Xenophon not even being there isn't an issue
>excerpts from the Republic
qt nazi fuccboi detected. post address, my little greek speaker
you really don't need to read all of those, i'd read a selection (homer, a hesiod, a couple from aeschylus, sophocles, euripides, aritsophanes and then the plato and aristotle)
then move on to something else and come back to the rest if you really feel the urge to
>>7798550
I'm saying you need to know what they are on about, our Western logic stems from it. You don't actually need to read a list.
>>7798554
the rest of the order is good but plato before aristophanes
>>7798555
nice trips, but what you're saying is a good selection is the model for qt nazi fuccbois. it's what you're putting out there with that selection. if you want to talk on western logic, you're probably going to have to read kratylus. kratylus and politeia probably makes you closer to Karl Rove than nazi femboi. go with that if you don't want to be the bitch.
>>7798560
i was just going in bloom's list order, i agree plato before aristophanes
>>7798569
I've read like 10 greek books (Plato, Aristotle, Sophocles, Homer, Aquinas) over the course of my BA and I understand like 90% of external references in contemp lit (Arendt, Nietzsche). Don't see the point in reading a list of 30 books just for 'starting w/ the greeks'.
>>7798593
what 10 books?
>>7798595
pffft don't remember exactly, I read excerpts (you don't read full books in most courses) of:
Homer - Odyssey
Plato - Republic, Symposium
Aristotle - Ethics
Aquinas - the part where he goes in the principles of Summa Theologica
Sophocles - Antigone
and propably some more that I can't think of.
>>7798593
logic isn't contemporary lit. i know what you're trying to say but reading kratylos would really help you stop shifting around what you're trying to say. the point in reading aristophanes and xenophon in relation to plato is because they're the other contemporary writers on socrates, and they're more fun than plato too. and you don't understand nietzsche at all if you thought
>>7798537
>Rest is too much imo.
because you cut out herakleitos and diogenes who are imperative to understand the tradition he's working in and references he's making.Aristotle's got a couple of ethics so your BA is shitty m8 and you don't know enough to know whyAristotle is horrid to read. You're shiteating insane.
>>7798607
thanks for the effort and info, anon.
>>7798613
The aim in a BA political theory isn't to fully understand the greeks or Nietzsche for that matter (like you do), but rather to view the authors in a larger spectrum of theories and policies and debate how that works in practice. You are more concerned with the theoretical notion of the greeks. Then sure, read what you read, advice what you advice, I just listed what I read and what I got from it (in a much more efficient method than is often used here on /lit/).
>>7798665
>being a qt nazifuccboi is better politcally speaking than being karl rove
>i don't need to understand nietzsche
m8, you're going to get anally raped. go read plato's gorgias and phaedras. forget reading any of the ethics from aristotle, read his works on rhetoric. that BA did not prepare you for shit; its "focus" is nonsensical.
>>7798690
*phaedrus
this is better than the symposium for what you're doing.
>>7798690
Depends what you're trying to do with it. I can literally name pieces of literature that have been more significant in my studies than classical greek. Again, if you wish to devote your time to reading 30 greek books before diving into actual /lit/, go for it, see how useful it proves in actual IRL political debate.
>>7798740
those works i just told you about are the basics of debate. yes, i'm sure a vague background illuminated some references for you in lit, but those works you listed won't help you in a debate.
and if someone opposing you in the debate has read plato and aristotle on rhetoric (or, worse, cicero or schopenhauer or nietzsche as well) they will eat you alive and make you feel you deserved it.
>>7798754
unsure. I've read schoppy and nietzsche, too. prolly don't understand them perfectly, but i've got yet to meet contexts where 'i'm eaten alive' in the heat of a debate.
>>7798763
i think you've missed a lot of nietzsche, as above, but how you missed how a debater can eat you alive in schoppy's Art of Being Right just tells me you're retarded. maybe a liar and retarded, but most certainly completely emotionally and intellectually stunted to the point of obliviousness. hope that someone sticks their hand up your ass and uses you for their sockpuppet, because holy shit how do you miss that in schopenhauer's rhetoric.
work through those namedrops in my posts in historical order, you won't be smarter but you'll be more dangerous and slightly less likely to be publicly raped by your own hubris.
>>7798222
Read Theogony first unless you are very familiar with Greek myth already
>>7798769
Surely I'll lose in your hypothetical situations with your hypothetical contesters, but I can't be fucked really.
>>7798816
no. you'll lose in real life (already have with that BA and bright eyed innocence about your political worth) and in internet fora dedicated to literature through a japanese anime lens. how you could lose worse than that involves a fursuit, not the greeks.
>>7798824
You're wasting your time and my time. You're arguing for a better understanding of the greeks, but you seem to forget there is much more important philosophers that can be read with a not so extended knowledge on greek lit as you present.
>>7798857
You seem to forget you're bullshitting and history disagrees with you. I'm arguing that you're shit at arguing or recommending texts useful in your discipline or recognising a coherent corpus. Considering how often your point has moved, first from logic to lit to politics, you're going to get raped by someone turned on more by ignorance in its pure form. I get off on educating it against its will, like when I recommend you texts you want to cry about.
Enjoy your life as a qt Nazi fuccboi, it's no skin off my nose you don't know the basics of debate and how to lawyer someone are still the texts I mentioned, it's just greater chances of anal prolapse for you when someone less kind goes in raw on how willfully ignorant you are.
>>7798579
You should read Aristophanes as you read the others for example "The Clouds" parodies Socrates so read it during or after Plato
>>7798904
Aristophanes is best to read after the other playwrights, early myths, and Plato. Reading as you go is hard because The Frogs has most the major playwrights as characters, Assemblywomen needs you to know most all of Euripides, and you'd need to read more of Plato than just the dialogues in OP to get The Clouds.
>>7798982
The funniest thing is you believe that when everyone else can judge from scrolling. You even said hilarious shit like that you understand 90% of references in Nietzsche from that sample which you literally couldn't understand half from, and then later that you didn't understand much. It's not even me rekking your shit most of the time, it's you rekking yourself by saying shit which contradicts what you just said. XD
>>7799040
M8 as long as you understand where the references are coming from you're fine. Never had I encountered a discussion where you needed to have read the books you mentioned.
>>7799092
>M8 as long as you understand where the references are coming from you're fine
you're not fine by that measure because you missed most of the references, so you don't even know they're there, let alone where they came from.
>Never had I encountered a discussion where you needed to have read the books you mentioned.
you have, you're just to dumb to know you mentioned several of them, including reading nietzsche.
holy shit this has been a long conversation with an arrogant idiot; I had forgotten about the part where you thought schopenhauer's rhetoric didn't advocate and illustrate the "eat them alive and ask for seconds" approach, despite having read him. you're pure comedy gold, kid.
>>7799113
>to dumb
too dumb, obvi
>>7799113
You just seem to overreact and exaggerate on many points. Also I have a hard time believing you actually ever pursued an academic carreer seeing how you're too stuck on the claim "you need to read this to understand that", especially given the time constraint and efficiency most students / lit fans are confronted with (hence why I'm saying leave the 30+ Greek books aside, read more interesting stuff/what you like to read). If you've noticed that I'm not going in so much in your argument it's mostly because you're argument resolves mainly about making personal attacks. Don't really see who's the kid here, but you just seem mad
>>7799155
>waaaaah i'm justified in my ignorance
not if you want to be seen as having a competent knowledge of canon or your chosen discipline. then you need to read books.
even if a teacher who was ripping you off for a degree which didn't prepare you for the discipline didn't tell you to read them. i know, it's tough for you to stay on topic but did you really think the idea "you don't need more than the shitty course listing i got" was going to be a valid argument to anyone interested in a greek thread? oh, wait, i remember your retarded statements which show you haven't read or understood any of the shit you've brought up, i shouldn't expect you to see that was a retarded idea coming from a misinformed idiot trying desperately to defend a degree which deprived him of a comprehensive and focused education.
>>7799155he's probably personally attacking you because he read Schoppy
What translation of Sophocles pls chums? (Oedipus cycle in particular)
>>7799173
Well maybe if you would be more concise in what you're attacking rather than saying "you're retarded" every post and proposing hypotethical debates where someone actually needs to be full aware of Greek lit in schoppy/Nietzsche, I would actually give you more credibility. But since you haven't made a valid point till a couple of posts back, or don't reply other than by personal attacking, I really don't see any value in you as a worthy scholar.
>>7799209
I've told you how you could actually educate yourself in debate from the Greeks onwards. Your argument is that you don't need to read books on debate because a haphazard philosophical survey has given you an education in rhetoric without reading anything relevant to the subject.
If that sentence was too long for you: go read the titles I recommended to you. Educate yo'self.
>>7798480
>Who the shit are you to tell us what to do.
Someone who actually read the fucking Greeks and knows how long it's going to take you.
>>7799208
Robert Fagles.
>>7799219
you are promoting greek lit par excellence, I'm promoting rushing through the greeks and getting to the fun lit/phil. See which one is more advisable in a 'how to greek' thread. Also, when you get interest in a certain topic, would you be encouraged by a 30 what to read list?
>>7799387
fuck, too many typo's in that post. *promoting = advocating, *get = gain, *30 book
>>7799387
just fuck off idiot youve been owned
>>7799404
the grand finale.. knew I wasn't talking to someone halfway decent, just rage, rage, rage. See how far that gets you IRL. I'm out, get off my board.
*PS: you meant you've
>>7799434
im not that guy, which you wouldve known if youdve paid attention to reply/poster number
For Plato, I prefer R.E. Allen for the dialogues he's done translations of, and Grube for mostly everything else.
>>7799437
With your way of speech you guys could be related, though.
>>7799208
Grene
>>7799387
you wouldn't know fun lit if it hit you. the greeks are fun (aristophanes, herodotus, etc). you sound super scurred someone might read read more greek lit than you... or have fun doing it.
>>7799434
kek, you think that anon proving they read more than you is an emotional argument. i have strong suspicions you're a grill b/c goddamn what is wrong with you?
bumping for translations thread
so uhhh..i see that you guys are argunig and all but is that list legit? like should i start knocking those book out in that ordeR?
>>7801284
The order in OP isn't good. Hesiod, Homer and Herodotus are an easy start. After that, you can go to: Plato or the PreSocratics for philosophy; Xenophon and Thucydides if you want more history; Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides for theater.
You don't really have to follow that order exactly but which route you take depends on what takes your interest. Hesiod some people replace with Hamiliton's Mythology to understand myths.
If you want to read Greeks for fun, you could go a completely different route too. Read Herodotus' Histories, Lysistrata by Aristophanes, Lucian's True Story, and anecdotes about Diogenes and Aristippus. None of those really need background reading to get most of the jokes. Xenophon is a seriously bro war writer if you like that type of book too.
