What are some of /lit/'s favorite Shakespeare plays? I'm currently taking a course on him and have been going through his works. I think I like Much Ado About Nothing the most so far, but we haven't gotten to the tragedies yet.
>>7797921
Macbeth
>life's but a walking shadow
>Fair is foul, and foul is fair.
>When shall we three meet again in thunder, lightning, or in rain? When the hurlyburly 's done, When the battle 's lost and won.
So fucking good
I just finished a course on later Shakespeare, and combined with the stuff I already read here's how I'd rank them.
1. Hamlet
2. King Lear
3. Othello
4. Romeo and Juliet
5. The Tempest
6. Macbeth
7. Twelfth Night
8. Richard III
9. The Merchant of Venice
10. The Winter's Tale
>>7797954
Really. Romeo and Juliet? Like, I see why they teach it first because it's probably his most accessible play, but it just felt really shallow to me compared to so many of his other works.
>>7797960
It's unique not only in being his only play to foreground romance (and as a result contains some of the most touching poetry) but also in centering the plot around the acquisition of an ideal love rather than the retention of it. If you look at how all of the subplots interact you find it's one of the most complex portrayals of "true love" ever.
Macbeth is by far the best
>>7797954
Glad to see Winter's Tale at the bottom where it fucking belongs.
Macbeth and Lear are my favorites. Lear for its pagan morality which I find fascinating, no sentiment to be found here! a defense of moral hierarchy that is not simply a Morality play but rivals the sublimity of the Greeks. Reminding us of Aeschylus' Agamemnon. He was able to write the high art of tragedy and the low popular comedy, did Aristotle not argue that a master of tragedy must also/first be a master of comedy?
I enjoy how "problematic" Shakespeare is these days. Like Nietzsche, he is conscripted to various leftist causes. His plays Othello (a criticism of miscegenation), or The Merchant of Venice (""anti-semitism"") have been twisted and spun. Othello as progressive, Shylock as a tragic hero. This is sickening as the rat is elevated to the level of Greek hero, it would've made old Bill gag! even my beloved Lear suffered. Rather than the cry "OUT VILE JELLY" and a betrayal of the divine hierarchy, Cornwall is replaced by an eye gouging machine in one of the thousands of tedious "critiques" of Capitalism. These illusions and perversions are of the stage interpretation. We can escape to the purity of the texts.
It may be unpopular, but I find Hamlet to be unformed. I don't think it has the clarity of Macbeth. Macbeth is a much better character and the play itself is "tighter" than Hamlet. I see Hamlet as I see Parsifal or Tannhauser, that is the ambition of the former with the below average execution of the latter. It is still a masterpiece by normal standards and will live on as such.
Crowd favorites like Henry V, Richard III, R+J, MSND still hold a place in my heart. My mother would take me to these as a young boy and we would go to an open air Shakespeare festival every year.
Objectively, the Bard is on the level of the Greeks. The KJV and Bill's Complete Works would satisfy me enough though.
>>7797990
I mean I got what he was going for with the whole rebirth thing and breaking the three unities of Greek tragedies but damn it was just so unfocused.
>>7797990
Winter's Tale has a fucking bear fight in it, which automatically makes me like it a lot more.
Julius Ceasar, Measure for Measure, Coriolanus, Hamlet of course, Henry IV part 1. And Henry VI part 2 holds a special place for me though it is absolutely not his best.
>>7798019
You ever actually read it? That happens offstage. The Clown just describes what he saw earlier.
>>7797997
>I find Hamlet to be unformed. I don't think it has the clarity of Macbeth.
It may be cliche to argue back with "Hamlet is perfect" but goddamn if every scene and every line isn't exactly where it needs to be. It's one of his longest plays but it doesn't feel like it because it is so tightly wound. And the madness of hamlet invites audience speculation far more than macbeth where everything is cut and dry.
>>7797990
The bottom is reserved for Merry Wives of Windsor and Pericles
>>7797954
Currently reading the tempest
I very much like when Shakespeare introduces the supernatural in his plays
But it seems like he read too much dr Faustus and Marlowe in writing it too
in rough order from best to worst
Richard III
Hamlet
Twelfth Night
King Lear
Much Ado About Nothing
The Merchant of Venice
Henry VI, Pt 3
As You Like It
Henry VI, Pt 2
A Midummer Night's Dream
Henry V
Richard II
The Tempest
The Winter's Tale
Macbeth
Julius Caesar
Othello
Antony and Cleopatra
The Comedy of Errors
Titus Andronicus
Romeo and Juliet
Henry VI, Pt 1
Henry IV, Pt 1
Henry IV, Pt 2
Coriolanus
The Taming of the Shrew
The Merry Wives of Windsor
All's Well that Ends Well
The Two Gentlemen of Verona
Pericles, Prince of Tyre
Timon of Athens
Measure for Measure
Love's Labours Lost
Cymbeline
King John
Henry VIII
The Two Noble Kinsmen
Troilus and Cressida
>>7798046
Read up briefly on the historical significance of a masque around that time. Once you get to a certain scene it will make a lot more sense thematically.
>>7798048
>Richard III
How can that possibly be the best? It's his most simplistic characterization of a villain. He even lazily converges interior ugliness with exterior ugliness. Not to mention that Richard III having a hump was mere rumor anyway. The whole thing felt like Shakespeare trying to gain political favor.
Ben Jonson was a playwright around the same time you should check out. His play The Alchemist is better than many of Shakespeare's imo.
>>7798068
Just learned today that it was actually Ben Jonson that elevated plays to the level of "art" in the public eye, not Shakespeare. Weird to think how underappreciated he is now.
Is it okay to just read the plays with no intention of ever watching them, or is it really necessary to watch them?
>>7798078
Watching them really helps you understand them more. I would say read them first then watch.
>>7798078
Reading them is way more useful in terms of study and analysis.
Watching them you get new perspectives from the actors, who portray their own interpretations onstage, and see many more visual cues that might beget even further analysis.
I'd say reading then watching is usually best.
>>7798066
It's been confirmed he was hunchbacked. His skeleton was discovered recently.
>>7798117
Huh, well fuck me.
>>7798128
Only if you're uncircumcised, anon :3
>>7798138
Speaking of physical deformities... :(
The Winter's Tale, Timon of Athens, As You Like It
I'm seeing some salt tossed at Winter's Tale. Pearls before swine:
Gone already!
Inch-thick, knee-deep, o'er head and
ears a fork'd one!
Go, play, boy, play: thy mother plays, and I
Play too, but so disgraced a part, whose issue
Will hiss me to my grave: contempt and clamour
Will be my knell. Go, play, boy, play.
There have been,
Or I am much deceived, cuckolds ere now;
And many a man there is, even at this present,
Now while I speak this, holds his wife by the arm,
That little thinks she has been sluiced in's absence
And his pond fish'd by his next neighbour, by
Sir Smile, his neighbour: nay, there's comfort in't
Whiles other men have gates and those gates open'd,
As mine, against their will. Should all despair
That have revolted wives, the tenth of mankind
Would hang themselves. Physic for't there is none;
It is a bawdy planet, that will strike
Where 'tis predominant; and 'tis powerful, think it,
From east, west, north and south: be it concluded,
No barricado for a belly; know't;
It will let in and out the enemy
With bag and baggage: many thousand on's
Have the disease, and feel't not. How now, boy!
>>7798207
That speech comes out of nowhere, as does Leontes' paranoia in general. The plot is so poor in terms of cause and effect that extracting anything worthwhile out of it is a stretch.
>>7798212
You need to listen. You're stuck in your head; step into Leontes' body.
Suspicion is motive enough--it's all there is. And look what it has wrought. You are witnessing a man completely out of joint with reality, and every formal element lends itself to this skewing.
Speak that speech outloud and examine your feelings as you do. If you let the words move through you as they should, you will vibrate with Leontes' paranoia.
>>7798224
Right, and how does Othello not demonstrate this much more effectively?
>>7798226
Othello is being manipulated by an evil, external agent; Leontes is plagued by demons of his own design. These are not two variations on a theme; they are different modes in completely different keys.
>>7798229
They most certainly are two variations on the theme of suspicion. The distinction would be an interesting one if Leontes' revelation at the end of the first act amounted to more than, "Oops, I shouldn't have been so suspicious." And Shakespeare pulling a Dragon Ball Z and reviving Hermione at the end negates any consequences (other than the death of Mamillius, the cause of which has nothing to do with anything).
>>7798240
>first act
first half*, sorry
>>7797921
none shakespear is shit.
>>7798240
If you're reading Shakespeare for plot you've got the whole enterprise twisted.
Character, craft, and poetry. That's all there is. If you lack an appreciation for Shakespeare's genius in these arenas, you lack Shakespeare tout-court.
>>7798048
why is shitty macbeth at the top
>>7798249
>character
Every single one is undeveloped, except maybe Camillo. Don't get me started on Autolycus.
>craft
Like I've been arguing, very lacking compared to his other works.
>poetry
Since so much of the play revolves around nonsensical plot progression, the poetry loses any universal appeal.
>>7798264
Yes, okay, I get it.
'You are a very sophisticated individual and are very much smarter than me and not at all a contrarian poseur. Good job.'
And good night.
>>7798048
I really like this guy's list. The top 10 is well done, though I would definitely contest merchant of venice and Midsummer being better than Henry V
To make this top 10 perfect I would move As You Like It to 10, Venice to 9, and Henry V over Midsummer.
Midsummer isn't nearly as good as the mature comedies.
My personal favorites in no particular order:
Othello
The Tempest
Henry V
Julius Caesar
>>7797921
My favorites would be-
HAMLET
Merchant of Venice
Macbeth
Richard II
Taming of the Shrew
>>7797921
Mine would be
Hamlet
King Lear
The Merchant of Venice
Henry V
Othello
>>7798048
これはフェイントです.
Favorite tragedy: Hamlet
Favorite comedy: the comedy of errors
Favorite history: Henry IV part 1
Most underrated: Pericles, Prince of Tyre
