Hey /lit/. I picked up pic related on a whim earlier today and started to read it and I was really enjoying myself. I was just wondering as to the level of difficulty in the book. If it remains roughly the same as the beginning I could see myself diving in right now but I didn't want to jump in without feeling ready for it. I haven't read any of the material that is commonly referenced in the book so its hard for me to know if I would get so much out of it by attempting to read it now. However I do have the oxford world classics version which explains much of these references and subtle symbolic likenesses in the endnotes.
Your opinions would be much appreciated as there are not very many avenues of discussion regarding ulysses for me outside of this forum.
conversely I could just read Tristram Shandy or The Divine Comedy which come in the mail in a couple of days.
just keep reading you can just use the notes
the "difficulty" ramps up SIGNIFICANTLY in chapter 3, drops back down again, and then ramps up towards the end of the book/with certain chapters
reading stuff like divine comedy, dubliners, portrait, hamlet, etc. is useful but i mean if you're already into it just soldier on. you can (and should) reread later anyway, when you have a better grasp of the influences/canon.
I should also mention that something about this book down right terrifies me.
>>7789686
Keep reading. If you get stuck you can always pick it up again later.
Difficulty varies from chapter to chapter, biggest hurdle for a first time reader to get over is chapter 3 (Proteus).
anyone else with Ulysses experience care to share their opinion?
>>7790005
just take it on. it's a fun experience. get light summaries of each "chapter" before you read them, and just get stuck in the texture and atmosphere of each. you're not going to get it. don't worry about that, but that doesn't mean you won't be able to enjoy yourself.
don't be afraid of not liking it, either. Don't force yourself through something you're simply hating. I will say that the style changes dramatically, so you're not going to be stuck with something you hate for very long. Just sit back and enjoy the ride and don't take anything too seriously this time around. It's just a day in the life. Next go round if you're up for it, then try to get all the subtleties you can.
Proteus, Oxen of the Sun, some of Scylla & Charybdis, and Circe are the most difficult chapters. But the rest should be a joyride.
>>7790005
It's one of the funnest and funniest books I've ever read, even when I barely understood anything (which was half the time). Just give it a go. No-one, not even Joyce scholars get everything. In fact IMO reading for le sekrit allusions is often a distraction from being swept up in the beautiful stream-of-consciousness. The novel works on so many levels it's genius.
Just enjoy the ride, there's no experience in literature quite like reading Ulysses for the first time.
>>7790005
what's troubling you my friend? do you think you're not ready?
>>7790033
proteus i don't remember being all that difficult, but rather what sucked me into Joyce's writing and solidified him as one of the greatest authors I had ever read, and likely will ever read.
>best
Proteus or Ithaca
>runner-up
Sirens
>worst
Eumaeus
>overrated
Penelope
>underrated
Wandering Rocks
>>7790056
yes basically, its just such a monolith. Im also worried I wont like it lol. I did read a portrait of the artist and I like that book much more upon reflection than I did while actually reading it. however that was much shorter and considerably less of a commitment.
>>7790080
>considerably less of a commitment.
You should learn to stop thinking of literature in this way.
>>7790080
just toss portrait of the artist out of your mind, ulysses is to portrait as the beginning of portrait is to the end of the novel. it's jarring to the point that the author is nearly unrecognizable. honestly, it seemed to me like Joyce laid out what he was attempting to accomplish in portrait though, in Stephen's conversation with Lynch.
http://www.mrbauld.com/joycebty.html
specifically the last chunk at the bottom of the page, ending with "paring his fingernails".
>>7790091
Interesting, I wonder If that was reflective on Joyce's actual opinion of the artist and by association himself.
>you only get to read Ullyses for the first time, once.
Read the reference material later, that was the advice I got and followed.
Don't worry about reading secondary material until you actually know if you like the book or not.
Skip the lists of seemingly irrelevant names or objects or sound them out in an Irish accent if you really want to put the effort in.
Read Bloom before you read Stephen, i.e. Start on Calypso then read Lotus Eaters and Hades, then go back to the first chapter.
If you haven't enjoyed any part of it at all by chapter 7 and feel like your forcing it, just stop and forget about it, Yeats didn't finish it, loads of others hated it.
>>7790120
i would say it's more of him plotting out what he is always attempting to do, to break free of the boundaries of human expression and language, and communicate a pure experience. of course that's just my juvenile take on it, but i think that was the purpose of proteus, mainly. the purpose of the stream of consciousness, and not only his own stream of consciousness, but even a character in a story's own stream of consciousness, which gives an incredible intimacy to it all.
>>7790085
>the Bourne trilogy is 1700 pages
>Ulysses is 700~
>>7790162
well good thing I'm not embarking on reading the Bourne trilogy then eh?
>>7790074
I have more notes in my margins for Proteus than any other chapter.
I bought an edition with no notes or anything. I've read Portrait and Dubliners but not much else in preparation. I'm just going to strap in for a wild ride and enjoy it as much as I can.
>>7789686
Any advice on staying awake or maintaining your interest? Maybe if you smoked rooibos while reading Ulysses, you'd find the stimulation to keep going with it ?
>>7790266
Perhaps reading out loud would help you out?
>Durkee remembers being in an English class with Morrison while studying James Joyce's Ulysses. "Even the teacher was learning from Morrison's interpretation of the work." Durkee said, "We all were ... He was sort of an intellectual leader." However, Durkee said, "Nobody really understood Morrison (as a person). He was detached, creative ... Few, if any, people in our class were really close to him."
>You will never hear Jim Morrison's take on Ulysses
I'd kind of like to get ahold of this book, but I don't want to go to my library for it..
https://youtu.be/k9o78-f2mIM
>>7790359
well if the majority of those who have read it is to be believed then 15 dollars will buy you a lifetime of entertainment and wonder.
what are some of your suggestions for other fairly complex books, or books you felt were close to Ulysses?
I really want to cut my teeth on some more complex fiction, and I'm rarely pleased by the various meme authors, DFW, Pynchon, both really didn't satisfy that. I'm not being pretentious or anything, I just like a reasonable challenge on occasion. so, any of you guys have any ideas?
>>7790385
Name an edition, anon... I'm in your tender hands.
>>7790389
Hopscotch is on my shelf and it seems like it would be challenging or something. I haven't read it.
>>7790389
Virginia Woolf or William Faulkner
>>7790403
this is the edition I have
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0199535671?keywords=ulysses%20oxford%20edition&qid=1457491607&redirect=true&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
>>7790389
I was going to read Naked Lunch in preparation for Ulysses but I'm getting the impression that that wont be neccesary
>>7790571
from what i've heard of naked lunch, i doubt it's necessary. what gave you that impression to begin with? There are quite a few lewd moments in Ulysses, of course, but nothing so vulgar that it gave me pause beyond surprise, aside from one moment.
>>7790579
mostly just the abstract writing style, I figured Naked Lunch would be easier and therefore would serve as an apt precursor to a more difficult experimental book
>>7790579
It's funny, I went into Ulysses blind, on a challenge frenzied whim. It was incredibly rewarding in a way, and in another way, it feels like it damaged me. I had a fairly significant sense that Joyce was attempting to destroy my concept of language. Finnegans Wake only bolstered that sense. It was him wiping me clean, then building me into something else, after him in a fashion. I know it sounds corny, but it seemed as though he was so distant from his writing, that he could predict even my facile reactions to his works. He writes not only his works, but those who read them. Like I said, corny as hell, but this guy really made everyone else i've tried to find a challenge from seem like pissants, not in the sense of raw difficulty, but rather depth.
>>7790605
sorry, i meant to reply to you there.
>>7790626
Its kind of funny to compare something like what you've said here with a review of any other book.
Did you read Finnegans Wake start to finish? Its interesting to hear about how different people prefer to read it in different ways. also did you use a supplementary text? How was it to read for significant amounts of time without knowing what was going on? sorry about the barrage of questions I've just been looking into Finnegans Wake today lol.
>>7790670
>Its kind of funny to compare something like what you've said here with a review of any other book.
That's because you haven't read any philosophy.
>>7790670
I've only read a short excerpt of Finnegans Wake, very very little. I wasn't really reviewing that anyway, more just my impressions of what I have read from Joyce. I'm not sure what you mean by it being funny when you compare it with any other book. In terms of Ulysses, I could gather plenty from the threads given. It's really not an incomprehensible book (some parts are), but it's not impossible to read it and take away at least a sense of what happened in the story, I won't embarass myself trying to express what I thought happened, but I don't think that I was floundering.
>>7790737
no no no thats not how I meant that, on the contrary I meant the opposite. Meaning that most texts don't move someone so much as to have them say " It was him wiping me clean, then building me into something else"
I was simply saying that to compare what you wrote of Joyces works "writing the reader" to a typical comment of most authors it really shows how elevated Joyce is as a writer.
Your post is actually pushing me closer toward attempting Joyce and I'm sorry I wasn't clearer about that.
>>7789686
A novel is a novel, there's no need to 'research' or 'prepare' for a novel, you read it and pull from it what you like. Don't be scared of not enjoying it, the /lit/quisition aren't going to come to your house and cuck you
>>7790831
oh, that's a relief! i was afraid i was sounding like a clumsy oaf. heh. well, anyway, I do hope you eventually take it up. I really think you'll have fun with it, it really is one hell of a ride.
oh, I will say one other thing. Finnegans Wake is crazy. The excerpt I read was in the Portable Joyce i think Viking edition? There's a small summary of the events, and I have to tell you, if you're not reading a guide, there is literally no way to comprehend unless you're an absolute genius polyglot, or have a guide right next to every page. I fear reading it just as much as you fear reading Ulysses, if not more.
>>7790033
Circe is a little bit difficult, but one of the most fun
>>7790670
I did. I started by reading a chapter of it a day, but quickly burned out after a few days of doing that because it takes a conscious effort to even recognize a lot of the words as readable.
After that, I shifted to a chapter or two a week and finished it in a couple of months. I looked at a few annotations after reading the first chapter, but didn't bother with them after that. Personally, I found it to be enjoyable whenever you manage to pick up on the cadence of a particular part and sound it out in one go. It's a book that's antithetical to the reading process as you know it in a lot of ways. Some chapters really fucked my shit up, because I insisted on reading each chapter in one sitting. The "nightlessons" one was especially brutal. If you think DFW goes overboard with notes you should try reading that.
Finnegans wake is scary
>>7792237
Ive been thinking about reading it alongside Joseph Campbells interpretation of it. Read one chapter then read the interpretation and notes and re-read it with those in mind. It really seems like a bizarre spiritual experience.
>>7792344
You could, but I found interpretations to largely be a waste of time. Joyce's intent was to replicate the "night mind" or the unconscious mind, where there's a plurality of possible meanings but no "correct" one. It's like talking to other people about your dreams; they might have interesting things to say, but ultimately no one's "right".
finnegan's wake took modernism to it's final conclusion, the results were "meh" at best, and the rest is history, which is to say post-modern
>>7789686
>>7792404
You haven't actually read it, have you.
>>7792538
if u had read it u cudve argued my points instead of trying to bluff, go sniff ur heros farts faggot
>>7792544
so you haven't read it
>>7789738
That's really interesting, can you elaborate?
>>7792544
>u
>cudve
>ur
Kill yourself.
>>7792631
>getting mad about "bad" spelling
>claims to like finnegan's wake
dohohoho
>>7792652
>finnegan's wake
>finnegan's
>gan's
>n's
>'
>>7792659
u seem flustered my friend, r u feeling ok
>>7792652
>equates multilingual puns to being too lazy to type 2-3 more words
Seriously kill yourself.
>>7792686
*letters
>>7792659
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>literally recommending a book about a Jewish cuck
Wew lad. Nice "classic" you picked there, /lit/.
Why did you guys have to come in and ruin this nice civil thread?
>>7792400
This is my stance towards "interpreting" most works of art. People approach art like it's some hidden message meant to be deciphered with a decoder ring. But if the artist wanted to say something that badly, he could have saved a lot of trouble and, you know, just said it. Just use the art as a springboard for your own emotions and ideas, and don't worry about whether what you're saying is "right" or "wrong".
Alright guys, OP here, I just finished Proteus and I'm absolutely hooked. My relationship with the "difficulty" of this book is nothing like I thought it would be. Instead of it being a daunting and lumbering task it is just fun. being bewildered by stephens scattered thoughts, sometimes reading passages over and over. In other books this has been a deal breaker for me, heck, even in Portrait this was much of a deal breaker for me but for for whatever reason in Ulysses its a joyful experience.
I really wasn't ready for how funny I would find it, Stephens inner monologue on that student in Nestor is absolutely hilarious and genius at the same time. And Buck Mulligan might as well be a cartoon character.
I am indebted to you guys, I probably wouldn't of started it without the comments here so thanks a lot.
>>7793921
glad to hear it and god's speed. remember to let joyce write you.
>>7790123
ulysses cannot be read, only re-read.
whats the line in proteus that describes Stephen pissing?
