Does anyone on /lit/ like Gramsci?
I'm embarking on a project to read huge selections of the Prison Notebooks, guided by secondary materials, and I'm wondering if there are any especially magisterial/authoritative readers or critical treatments.
I'm also very interested in other "culture critique" figures. Frankfurt School is up next.
>>7780731
marxistfag get out!
>2016
>Liking the guy who unleashed Critical Theory upon Western Civilization
i like his war of position war of manoeuvre ideas the best and think they are the most relevant to latecapitalism. (b/c it is so hard to take on the economic base these days)
what secondary sources are you going to read OP?
>>7780740
>preferring to live under cultural hegemony
peon
>>7780738
>>7780740
I am pretty eclectic and not a Marxist in any real sense.
>>7780755
Yeah, that's what interests me too. I have no idea yet what I'm going to be reading in terms of secondary literature. I have to be kind of selective though, so I want to err on the side of orthodox and major historical interpretations.
I'm also admittedly hoping for something that will make exegesis easier, because obviously the Notebooks are written obscurely.
>liking Gramsci
His work is not only influential on marxists but on so called "fascist" thinkers like Alain de Benoist and Dugin utilise what they call Right-wing Gramscism in their culture critique
>>7780995
bump since I am also interested in this
>>7781440
>>7780995
Dugin's great plan
>>7780731
fuck this guy
>>7781479
Papa Dugin is going to make Russia great again!
My favorite professor in college, joseph buttigieg, did a bunch of work on gramsci and i think a full length work or two on him. I didn't read it as I had no interest in gramsci, but Buttigieg's wit was amazing. Notre dame professor.
>>7781493
>blaming all your problems on Marxism
Don't you see that it's all because of the ideological stasis caused by the dual hegemony of the "left" (socialism and its successors) and the "right" (liberal capitalism)?
>>7780731
>Your country went full fascist.
>Put you in jail.
>You're every day sicker.
>Spending last years reading history/philosophy/economy and writing commentaries notebooks.
>Every day was an harder struggle because poor/shitty food, cold, fevers.
>Die in jail with almost no hope to be published.
meanwhile, in the correspondence:
>"Gramsci what the point of all this reading and writing?"
>"Not let my mind fade"
80 years later pseudo intellectuals spit on your works without even read it.
>>7783156
>if you dislike something you are 'blaming all your problems' on that thing
why do leftists always use this retarded argument?
you can say leftism is shit without blaming all your problems on it you idiot
>>7781440
They adopt a metapolitical stance which is based on Gramscism and thus believe it is better to concentrate on changing and critiquing the culture of politics rather than direct engagement in politics itself.
>>7784441
Should have asked for the confino, can't get cold and fevers in Sicily.Just kidding.
>>7781479
topkek
this guy's a fraud
>>7784502
Thanks family.
i never understood why 'rightists' place on the current liberal sjw trends on late 19 early 20th century marxists as if they wanted or for the most part even cared about these types of things
even more strange when you consider that their methods of critique came out of these same marxists they blame for the problems in society
>>7786308
They opened Pandora's Box.
That they didn't know what would escape it, or that they might not have liked some of the things that conceivably might have, is irrelevant.
>>7786323
>They opened Pandora's Box.
how/where
>>7780740
Critical theory is MUCH better than a society with none
>>7781493
Dude, radical "womyn" feminism and gay pride parades were MORE common in the 90s than the are today
>>7786366
liberalism>marxism>critical theory>cultural marxism> feminism> white genocide
all part of the same evolutionary process, you can't embrace one without implicitly supporting the others
>>7783064
>buttigieg
>>7786448
articulate your thought
>>7786507
I laid down the illogical pathway followed by all egalitarian and progressive ideologies starting from the french revolution. Needless to say, progressivism tends to self-destruction due to the laws of entropy. Any succesfull perduring society is by necessity based on eternal principles like monarchy, patriarchy and hierarchy
>>7781479
what video is this from
hopes for 2016, /lit/?
>cultural marxism spook/meme gets done away with
>faulty connections of thought through 20th century get done away with
what else?
>>7786653
If you read and then discuss cultural marxism you are suddenly magically transformed in a cultural marxist?
Are people like you that put warnings at the beginning of Kant
>>7786653
leftist doublethink at its finest.
>>7786448
Nah familia, the Ideological pathway goes like this:
tribal values (paganism) -> master morality (reformed paganism, rome et al) -> slave morality (early christianity) -> developed slave morality (protestantism) -> political religion (anabaptism, catholic empires, American protestantism, etc.) -> "secular" egalitarianism -> marxism and the "turning inward" of christian sentiment -> critical theory -> feminism
The man that opened Pandora's box was the guy who invented agriculture tbqh.
>>7786708
How can we stop Progress and restore Master morality?
>Adorno was a "Cultural Marxist"
When is this meme going to end?
Not only is the term "Cultural Marxist" fucking nonsensical, Adorno is closer to reactionary thought than many people give him credit for and to skip over him because he's been associated with the bogeyman of "Cultural Marxism" (a term made up by people who haven't actually read Marx) is a great loss. Anyone who quickly dismisses "The Culture Industry," Aesthetic Theory, Prisms, Notes to Literature or The Philosophy of New Music are depriving themselves the richest (and, indeed, most satisfyingly elitist) writings on Western art after Ruskin. Even through the dense prose his awe and love of Mozart, Goethe and, particularly, Beethoven can be felt.
Adorno, at every step in his career, lamented and deeply criticized the use of music and film as methods of controlling individuals, which is what he derisively dubbed the "culture industry" -- this is what he saw jazz and Hollywood as doing as much as Stalin did, and he disliked both for it equally. It was a vulgarization of individual experience, which reaches its highest point in, e.g., a Beethoven symphony, where every moment is determined by internal and "tragic" necessity which is, by that very token, the realization of true freedom; by contrast the verse-chorus-verse of a pop song is a forced abstraction into which structurally meaningless differences are plugged in, it is "shallow" and is a betrayal of Western art and bourgeois individuality. Adorno also vigorously resisted any politicized art at all (like protest songs), which he saw as equally vulgar. That he should be interested in shaping or controlling public opinion is absurd. He was an aesthete, pessimist and a quietist.
Adorno, particularly in his writings on art, was as far from a "Cultural Marxist" as one can imagine -- he was rather the last intellectually serious defender of bourgeois/Western high art against all forms of cultural decay (popular music, film, etc.). That the academic left regularly dismisses him as an elitist should be proof that he's worth looking into. Not to mention, the influence of Spengler on Adorno runs deep -- he's probably his third most frequent citation, behind Hegel and Marx. (A strong case could be made for Adorno as being a strikingly conservative Hegelian backlash against vulgar Marxism.) (And... nearly everything of merit in Christopher Lasch -- who should be canon among reactionaries, if he is not already -- is taken from Adorno.)
If you like Gramsci you should read Luigi Zingales.
>>7786372
only because 9/11 temporarily reaffirmed the patriotic artifices that are ostensibly our cultural mores. once the war in iraq turned popular it started going straight back downhill.
>>7786696
funny you say 'people like me' since i would never do that
>>7786727
read Also sprach Zarathustra.
the last man will soon be upon us
>>7786544
>Any succesfull perduring society is by necessity based on eternal principles
Why can't people simply learn to be responsible, not for some retarded ideal but for common sense?
I will never believe it's not possible, if you were to prove it's not then I'd say just kill everybody in the world right now and be done with it, I don't like worthless things.
>>7787866
>Why can't people simply learn to be responsible
>>7786742
Cultural Marxism is a perfectly sound theory; so much so that Wikipedia (the go-to source of information for all normies) had to reclassify it as a conspiracy theory.
Here's the original article from before the Memory Hole:
https://archive.today/YzkIS
>>7787907
>Among the key works of the Frankfurt School which applied Marxist categories to the study of culture were Adorno's "On Popular Music," which was written with George Simpson and published in Studies in Philosophy and Social Sciences in 1941. Adorno was worried by signs of conformity in contemporary mass society and also at the conversion of individual artistic expression into the mass production of standardised commodities. He argued that popular music was, by design and promotion, "wholly antagonistic to the ideal of individuality in a free, liberal society",[5] Adorno and Horkheimer's "The Culture Industry: Enlightenment as Mass Deception", originally a chapter in Dialectic of Enlightenment (1947), which argued that culture reinforced "the absolute power of capitalism",[6] and "Culture Industry Reconsidered", a 1963 radio lecture by Adorno.
try reading; you're on /lit/
Help me make it clear, if communists use Cultural Marxism to destroy the Capitalistic society from within in what the fuck do they believe?
>>7786742
The OG meme was non-Frankfurt School Marxists disregarding Walter Benjamin/Adorno/Horkheimer because they Marxism was mostly preoccupied with cultural rather than economic-sociological matters.
Of course, the way new right uses it as a blanket conspiracy is nonsense.
>>7787907
> Cultural marxism argues that what appear as traditional cultural phenomena intrinsic to Western society, for instance the drive for individual acquisition associated with capitalism, nationalism, the nuclear family, gender roles, race and other forms of cultural identity; are historically recent developments that help to justify and maintain hierarchy.
All Marxists do that. It's the basic implication of the work of Early Marxs. These on Feuarbach, German Ideology and Manifesto make all these things clear structurations constructed on base-superstructure dialect.
>>7786653
i wish people would stop talking about things theyve only come into contact with through wikipedia or images with cherry-picked quotes
>>7788051
>Of course, the way new right uses it as a blanket conspiracy is nonsense.
So you're saying the Left does not want to undermine traditions/norms/etc? Marxists hate them, more often than not; branding them 'power structures' and so on.
>>7788065
I will not call them traditions, because most often, they are not that. They are not norms, if the can be challenged.
The Left is not an unitary group. All members of it seek to increase the position of the proletariat in a society, and the means they take are varied. Some attack archaic cultural constructs. Vast majority attack socieconomic facts.
If you think Judith Butler and Foucalt dominate the minds of modern leftist movements, I suggest you look at the constitutions, party platforms and agendas of the parties and see for yourself that issues beyond economics and sociology are mostly brought up by intermediary parties, not pure proletariat parties.
>>7788051
>The OG meme was non-Frankfurt School Marxists disregarding Walter Benjamin/Adorno/Horkheimer because they Marxism was mostly preoccupied with cultural rather than economic-sociological matters.
"Cultural Marxism" is a meme perpetuated by people who haven't actually read Marx. Not that you really need to (you don't), but it's a memetic distraction and if people actually read the authors they shitpost about they would be better for it:
http://paintyourpanda.blogspot.com/2014/10/cultural-marxism-cultural-conservatism.html
>>7788065
and conservatives often like to keep traditions and norms, it doesn't mean there's a conservative conspiracy behind it all
>>7788079
... I said that in the second sentence of my post. I just pointed out the origin of the phrase.
>>7788078
>I will not call them traditions, because most often, they are not that.
Debatable.
>The Left is not an unitary group.
Correct.
>All members of it seek to increase the position of the proletariat in a society, and the means they take are varied.
>All members
Incorrect. Plenty of Lefties don't give a shit about the economic side of things, nowadays.
>Some attack archaic cultural constructs.
>Archaic
Chronological snobbery.
>>7788079
What do we call the subversion of social/cultural norms, then? I guess there's 'subversion' itself, and 'subversives'/'Fifth Columns' for the perpetrators.
>>7788089
Of course. By very definition, there's no conspiracy behind organic traditions/norms.
>>7788094
My point was that Marx was a shit writer in service of entropy, as all leftists are, and the entire history of human interrelations can be summed up as the struggle between the aristocracy (tradition, patriarchy, etc.) and the proles (entropic decay). Darwin was more or less correct, which is hilariously something that certain reactionary circles refuse to admit. People who use the phrase "Cultural Marxism" are proles attempting to piece together a Frankenstein quilt in order to understand the world around them. As are the people who talk about "white privilege" and "micro-aggressions". These people are losers who don't read the books they talk about, who attempt to find solace in things they read on the internet.
The base aspect of human interaction goes over their heads. Status signalling is beyond them. They are unable to parse this into a larger matrix of history, which is why they haven't read Spengler or Lasch. All of these people miss the point, all of these people don't actually read, and they would do well to shut off the Netflix and page through Ligotti, only because reading Zapffe or Cioran or Schopenhauer would be too much of an effort.
>>7788105
A lot of tradition and norms are not 'organic'
>>7788122
>traditions and norms aren't organic
stop posting
>>7786742
don't tell /pol/!
it is always a good laugh when what they think is 'cultural marxism' is actually the most capitalist ideological systems around. When people have things so far wrong, completely backwards, I take comfort in myself and feel above them because they are so low.
>>7786742
The American Alt Right unfortunatly has been cannibalised by morons and capitalist apologists. The irony of "cultural marxism" being that it has nothing to do with marxism but it completely liberal (and in extension capitalist) in character
https://www.righton.net/2016/02/20/the-alternative-right-an-autopsy/
>>7788155
Always liked that cover
>>7788374
interesting read. Do you agree with him?
>>7788374
There is no greater threat than the libtards atm.
>>7788155
>reading abridged versions
biump
>>7780740
>>7780738
I think it's all just a big misunderstanding that spiraled out of proportion. It seems like everyone who uses the term to explain everything bad today doesn't actually know what it is, and just goes off what his buddies on /pol/ think. They don't have a clue, either. Well, first off, cultural marxism in the sense you're talking is bullshit, and secondly, why would being critical of our society must necessarily be a bad thing? Isn't that what being "redpilled" is about, not swallowing the comfortable truth right away, questioning everything? Critical theory is like conspiracy theories, except on a scale of a society. Frameworks vs. individuals.
Nothing to do with immigrants.
>>7788374
Capitalists (Globalists, specifically) and Cultural Marxists are a match made in hell.
The former wants a world of completely interchangeable workers/consumerists, whilst the latter wants a world of completely interchangeable people in general.
>>7793053
>Well, first off, cultural marxism in the sense you're talking is bullshit
>Doesn't say why
>why would being critical of our society must necessarily be a bad thing?
It's not. Critical Theory subverts what works, however. Functioning societies depend entirely upon what 'works', because those things ensure its stability; and stability, as any historian knows, is the wellspring from which civilization flows.
Undermine that, and civilization will rightly regard you as an enemy within.
>>7784456
>le socialsits ruining my life!! go capitalism!!! :^)
>>7793074
>Doesn't say why
Because I have no idea what those posters mean by it, besides memequoting it and implying that it's a bad thing.
>Functioning societies depend entirely upon what 'works',
That doesn't mean that the status quo is in the interest of the people. It almost never is. By that logic, Socrates was wrong to corrupt the young, and so is everyone who tried to change anything in society.
>>7793343
>That doesn't mean that the status quo is in the interest of the people.
That depends how you define 'the people' and their 'interests'.
The idea of equality has done more good than harm to 'the people'.
