Half way through pic and I think it's fucking dreadful, what aren't I getting? What I'm finding is that his condemnation of vapid, consumerism reminds me more than anything of the kind of "he looked at her, she was on her Iphone which was eating her soul" crap you sometimes see in the crit threads on this very board. The beginning was a lot more engaging, but I'm struggling to think of reasons to finish this book.
* - , (vapid consumerism)
* Halfway
It's poorly written but could just be the translation. The ideas are fairly compelling though.
>>7758893
What you aren't getting is that Houellebecq is an author of mediocre ideas and poor prose.
Submission had one or two interesting thoughts about demographics, The Map and the Territory one or two good thoughts on contemporary alienation, but that is entirely it.
He still manages to be high-tier among contemporary writers, which is sort of distressing.
>>7758900
Yeah a lot of what's turning me off is the style which I think is probably the translation. I guess I feel like I've just heard all these ideas before but I'm only halfway through. Also some of the bits at the start were really good, guess it will only take a few days to finish.
>>7758911
This also rings true.
Some of the sentences really are appalling, that was what made me think there was something afoot.
>>7758911
Yup. He writes novels of ideas without any particular profundity. Borges, for example, manages to be 100 times as interesting in 1/100 of the amount of pages.
The English translation supposedly butchers his style by prettifying it, taking out repetitions and stuff like that.
As for the content, you should appreciate it is a novel from 1994. Dismissing it for being like /lit/ is like dismissing Warhol for being like tumblr.
And dismissing it before you finish it is silly altogether, of course.
>>7758970
>>7758960
OP is British, so no not quite (I'm OP). The prettifying is exactly what I'm talking about. There's that bit in the beginning where he says something along the lines of: "this new life does not lend itself well to literature, there can be no interesting evocations of themes or moods, no images spring to mind" etc, and I thought great, that sounds interesting, and then all this "Her mood was one of excessive irascibility, doubtless due to the peculiar circumstance of her..." whatever. I thought this was probably due to the translation, thanks for clearing that up! Actually helpful input from /lit/! And also yeah, you're right about it seminal in it's own time.
Will read it to the bitter end.
Cheers guys.
>>7760023
*being seminal
>>7758893
it's like 130 pages, just finish it.
i thought it was really funny
>that 28 year old virgin who can't get laid and literally looks like a frog
>>7758911
Hes a good prose stylist desu
ur the pleb here bruv
>>7758893
Heard the translation on this was pretty bad. Read it in French, bruv
>>7761170
>Hes a good prose stylist desu
If that's true, publishers might have to look into getting better translators.
>>7758970
He's an idiot who surfed on the
>hurr durr Islam will replace us
wave. If you think its interesting you're a stormfront fag
>>7761227
This fucking arrogance.
The events in Submission are slowly becoming real, and have been since just after the book's release. He's not riding any wave, he's not even a real critic of islam in this book. He merely examines a possible outcome of liberalism and multiculturalism. If anything, radical islam is riding the Houellebecq wave.
>you're a stormfront fag if you have a different opinion than me!
Next time try to argue with facts instead of an attempt at defamation.
>>7761214
It's actually the other way around - English translators substantially improved on Houellebecq's prose
Here's a whole article on it:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2015/10/16/michel_houellebecq_a_writer_who_benefits_from_translation.html
> Houellebecq, for instance, has a penchant for commas; his sentences suffer as a result. Meaningless clauses pop up everywhere, overly complicating a text that is already dense, theoretical, and intricate. Stein clears away these complications, leaving the reader of the American English version able to focus on Houellebecq’s theories rather than on interrupting bits of superfluous information.
>>7761294
I read atomised in French and thought the prose made the jokes click
Can't imagine it otherwise
>>7761282
>Next time try to argue with facts instead of an attempt at defamation.
I suppose you're from the Anti-Defamation League?
Nice try, Saul.
>>7761294
Yeah I've seen that quote before. Thanks for the link.
I'm reading Houellebecq in Dutch, however, and while that language is very similar to English the prose still feels stilted and even repetitive sometimes. It doesn't bother me that much though.
>>7761318
You got me! Abe here, can't out-conman the Foxman! ;^)
>>7761320
The thing is, Houellebecq does a lot of the 'stilted' things on purpose. The Anglos try to make his prose adhere to their standards of 'good prose' at the expense of what he's trying to accomplish.
The Dutch translator deliberately keeps it just as ugly as Houellebecq wants it to be. I recall reading somehwere Houellebecq didn't like the English ones too much but appreciated De Haan's approach, even though he rightly thinks translation is always suboptimal.
>>7761282
>He merely examines a possible outcome of liberalism and multiculturalism
Enough said.
Islam in France is on suicide watch since years. It only loses ground day by day and is even more ostarcised.
Its obvious, you probaly dont live in France so you wouldnt get it, but it fits right at the right time in the political environnement to be a buzz book and everyhting is a reference to the last 2 years political life. It feeds on fear and memes, its shit written by right wing paranoid.
Anti-consumerism is so old and boring. Totally failed ideology. The truth is that people consume too little. Educating subject to consume more is the greatest headache for marketologists and alike. Real present-day consumer behavior is thousand times more hard to instill, compared to such requirements as proper use of the toilet and such.
>>7761513
Houellebecq isn't even anti-consumerist though.
>>7761511
>a French writer writes a book set in France so the ideas in the book can and must only apply to France and France alone, foreigners will not be able to understand at all
>>7761532
Did you read the book? Its a troll book fit for making noise in France and its troll status made it possible to be published internationaly. He's not interesting, he's just a /pol/lack writing a half PC book so that it can get published.
>>7761542
It's not a 'troll book' just because it does not fit your agenda, mate.
>>7761550
>implying I have an agenda
>implying I'm not a horse brought up for slaughter
>>7761550
It obviously is.
>Muslim are evil
Check
> Europe in danger
Check
>Western Civilizaion is decadent
Check
>Everything is turning to shit
Check
Its all cheap tricks to be noticed, hopping in the french specialty of selfpitying and muslim scapegoating train
>>7761571
This is a very superficial reading by a gross liberal baby
>>7761602
>Calling people liberal
Thanks for confirming you're an ignorant americunt
>>7761542
>Did you read the book?
Yes.
>Its a troll book
You mean 'I don't like it'.
>fit for making noise in France
That's not Houellebecq's fault. And if it was, so what?
>its troll status made it possible to be published internationaly
No, first of all Houellebecq's name made that possible. Second, the current migrant crisis and influx of muslims in Europe and beyond makes it a very real possibility that big islamic political parties will arise in the West in the near future.
>He's not interesting
Opinion.
>he's just a /pol/lack
Lame attempt to disqualify by association and stereotyping.
>a half PC book
You mean 'he doesn't share my political convictions'.
